So I have noticed that there is absolutely no PvP in Diablo and after playing Heroes of the Storm I realized why not turn the battle grounds into a matchmaking MOBA where you can play with your own builds and and respec the classes when entering the PvP world where the crusader is a healing tank ect....... Just a thought I think would help Diablo get back on top of the twitch viewer count.
I wasn't sure if I could talk about this to anyone, but I think it's ok for me to share it.
From my brief conversation with John Yang at the community reception party, he seemed to convey a general "feeling" that Blizz devs share. That it is ok for each game to have their own niche, cater to their own style of player, and that they embrace the idea that there's a Blizzard game for each type of player. And I believe in general they don't want one franchise/genre to invade another game's own space and niche.
Right now, for competitive PvP, they have SC2 (1v1) and HotS (5v5), and they seem to be absolutely ok with Diablo 3 not ever having a proper (competitive) PvP mode. D3 is their cooperative loot hunting monster smashing over the top experience. This could change, but I don't think it ever will.
Now my own opinion on this matter is that, if they don't want to make a proper PvP mode, at the very least they could divert minor resources to give us some tools on the Brawling mode (along with a huge red permanent PR statement saying PvP isn't an intended mode and will never be balanced). A way to setup teams, a way to have more players, a way to measure our damage and points, just some functionalities - to let the community make of it whatever they want it to be.
I'm not asking for spectator mode, replays, multiple arenas, a PvEvP mechanic (moba-style), leaderboards, seasons and insanely balanced fights. Just the basics, because Brawling as a feature is quite frankly a bad joke, and it's about time they admitted that and tried to amend it.
Some people just wanna fight each other in D3's great fighting engine (in an organized manner), and for these, minor tools like that could be the one end-game reason for farming day and night. Food for thought.
brawling should be a different mode altogether with increased player limit
it can start out as a single random map every game created, different options for with/without monsters etc....sky is the limit, really.
Food for thought indeed. I've been rattling and prattling about this on Official Forums.....The jist, of it to me is that they are squandering unthinkable potential not exhibiting PVP in the D3 engine, in the actual game. Diablo 2's legacy was basically built on the back of its player vs player combat. Hit detection notwithstanding, Diablo 3 has such fine tuned player control it arguably eats LoL for breakfast.
They gave us brawling...sure..but you'd think they do so much as give a god-damn Score board??....they did not even do that.
Tomorrow Im gonna hunt around the internet for some un-official D3 PVP organizations...I've glanced at them a time or two...they have gone so far as prohibited certain runes against certain comps....its interesting to look into they are doing what they can with what they have...
when I dipped my toes into the brawling arena it basically took 500 hours of gear/spec knowledge and compressed it onto a postage stamp and stuck it to my forehead....it was like a whole new thing for about 15 minutes......
I'd love to carry on and articulate this idea...but its my fucking bedtime
Couldn't agree more, i personally don't want diablo to turn into a PvP game, i want to farm the gear and play the game as it is, but i also want the arenas they promised us, and like zero stated along with a huge red permanent PR statement saying PvP isn't an intended mode and will never be balanced. That would be enough, ppl who say pvp is imbalanced atm is because they have never played it enough or dunno how to gear for it, if u forsake all dps and go the full toughness route u can't be one shotted and u still deal alot of damage, that with team based combat arenas could be an endgame for years, would certainly bring some solutions to the people that are already bored of farming t6 to farm t6 better when we are already facemelting it...
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Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
Why is everybody saying the pvp in d2 was soo great ...
I played d2 for almost 10 years, and the thing which annoyed me the most was the pvp.
it made no sense..
You either were oneshotted, or you moved around in circles all the time.. how was that fun and engaging...?
it was actually the same as brawling is now, except you went out of town and not in a different zone. and you had maybe 2 seconds to react instead of zero now.
still it was far from a good experience from my point of view
Why is everybody saying the pvp in d2 was soo great ...
I played d2 for almost 10 years, and the thing which annoyed me the most was the pvp.
it made no sense..
You either were oneshotted, or you moved around in circles all the time.. how was that fun and engaging...?
it was actually the same as brawling is now, except you went out of town and not in a different zone. and you had maybe 2 seconds to react instead of zero now.
still it was far from a good experience from my point of view
Well a few thoughts that spring to mind is:
1. Many people really enjoyed it. I personally did not even set foot on the battle net so thats the depth of my experience in D2 PVP. but from what i've read and heard it was not some universally dispised feature in the game.
2. Those who did not enjoy it in D2 did not have to pay any attention to it.
3. Those who want to enjoy it today in D3, Are discouraged from enjoying it or prevented.
So that seems to be the heart of peoples' frustration: they are asking D3, why discourage, why prevent, why drag your feet?
Diablo 2's PvP system was full of holes and issues, but it only ends up being a thing that can be improved...
count and list as many flaws about it as you can and it doesn't tarnish the actual idea of player vs player combat interaction in a 3/4 isometric.
Just like so many games in the past, you put two human minds on a little static battlefield and what happens next is an astronimcal amount of variables and situations, chess does it, league of legends does it, magic the gathering does it. etc etc etc etc. They expand on the concept of human mind pitted against human mind in creative ways.
Same with the AH and crazy legendary weapons.
Even though D2 had broken items duped all to shit and used by damn near everyone every class, and the D3 AH was a sterile piece of shit drowning in boring little objects that cost 2 billion gold.....both of those concerns do not tarnish the "ideas" of fascinating items or competitive trading platforms...those ideas can absolutely flourish if implemented in the correct way.
they are still worth discussing if that makes sense.
Read until your last sentence "twich viewer count". Anyone who bases if they like a game on how many other people watch the game just blows mai miiiiinnnddd
Guys, for crying out loud. This discussions is as old as the franchise. "D2 had PvP and it was great"... "D2 didn't have proper PvP and it sucked balls"....
Let's just not twist the facts or mix them with with the opinionated part of arguments.
D2 didn't have great PvP features, only a few extremely simples ones (still more than D3 which is what bothers a lot of people), and with those functionalities, a thriving small (compared to the how many people played the game) community still managed to do something with it. Maybe those make up for 5-10% of the playerbase, but compare it to Hardcore mode which probably has a similar playerbase and you get what they mean. (also for the record, I wasn't a big PvP player back then and never did proper D2 PvP, just playing devil's advocate here)
Second, people will swear more open PvP was an amazing part of D2 but in general it mostly lead to griefing, and more harmed players than ones having fun. That is hardly a good argument when you're trying to get more features into this part of the game, and will only scare away those who are already on the other side of the fence.
While I think a "real PvP" mode will likely never come to Diablo 3, I also really think there's no reason not to give the players some minor simple tools on Brawling (and make it be at least on par with D2's features) and see what happens from there. Being "scared" of the playerbase using it to demand PvP balancing is a bullshit and lazy reason not to.
If despite not having ANY resemblance of balance, any rewards, a proper matchmaker, leaderboards and all those "mandatory" 2014 PvP perks, the community still thrives and people organize fun events and clan brawls, and even non-PvP players ended up having some fun in those - well, I think the message would be pretty clear for the future.
First off, I don't think anybody is getting upset over anything. That period has long passed.
Saying "be happy with what you have", and then right after recognizing that is nothing is kind of contradicting yourself a bit.
Say whatever you will, but the devs themselvespromised PvP. They soldthe freaking game (to a lot of ppl) based on that promise, that it would come eventually, that everything that was being reported on Blizzcon by the press was something to be excited about. I have a friend who actually asked for his money back when he found out it wasn't coming, and he got it. So that kinda says how even them recognize the false advertisement.
I'm also willing to bet it was the most popular of the Blizzcon demos (arena), judging from the lines I had to face in 2010. You have no idea how much fun it is to fight actual intelligent enemies in D3's engine.
So yeah, we're all past that point of raging. As the Blizzcon panel suggested, it's time to see "what's next". And to me, it's about time the developers stepped up their game and did something about it. Like I said, D2 had "more" PvP features than D3 - can you realize how sadthat sounds? How back then, they had no developing power at all and still did not fret when faced with the challenge of having and "unbalanced" PvP.
Add that to how some people reacted very negatively to "What's Next" (I was there, I could hear the comments of how "excited" people were about Ancient items). I've seen players with thousands of hours go like "wtf are they doing with ancient items?" and not sound to happy with the direction the game is taking now. So maybe, right now, it's the time to rethink exactly what isnext. Maybe it's time for something fresh.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
I wasn't sure if I could talk about this to anyone, but I think it's ok for me to share it.
From my brief conversation with John Yang at the community reception party, he seemed to convey a general "feeling" that Blizz devs share. That it is ok for each game to have their own niche, cater to their own style of player, and that they embrace the idea that there's a Blizzard game for each type of player. And I believe in general they don't want one franchise/genre to invade another game's own space and niche.
Right now, for competitive PvP, they have SC2 (1v1) and HotS (5v5), and they seem to be absolutely ok with Diablo 3 not ever having a proper (competitive) PvP mode. D3 is their cooperative loot hunting monster smashing over the top experience. This could change, but I don't think it ever will.
Now my own opinion on this matter is that, if they don't want to make a proper PvP mode, at the very least they could divert minor resources to give us some tools on the Brawling mode (along with a huge red permanent PR statement saying PvP isn't an intended mode and will never be balanced). A way to setup teams, a way to have more players, a way to measure our damage and points, just some functionalities - to let the community make of it whatever they want it to be.
I'm not asking for spectator mode, replays, multiple arenas, a PvEvP mechanic (moba-style), leaderboards, seasons and insanely balanced fights. Just the basics, because Brawling as a feature is quite frankly a bad joke, and it's about time they admitted that and tried to amend it.
Some people just wanna fight each other in D3's great fighting engine (in an organized manner), and for these, minor tools like that could be the one end-game reason for farming day and night. Food for thought.
it can start out as a single random map every game created, different options for with/without monsters etc....sky is the limit, really.
They gave us brawling...sure..but you'd think they do so much as give a god-damn Score board??....they did not even do that.
Tomorrow Im gonna hunt around the internet for some un-official D3 PVP organizations...I've glanced at them a time or two...they have gone so far as prohibited certain runes against certain comps....its interesting to look into they are doing what they can with what they have...
when I dipped my toes into the brawling arena it basically took 500 hours of gear/spec knowledge and compressed it onto a postage stamp and stuck it to my forehead....it was like a whole new thing for about 15 minutes......
I'd love to carry on and articulate this idea...but its my fucking bedtime
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
I played d2 for almost 10 years, and the thing which annoyed me the most was the pvp.
it made no sense..
You either were oneshotted, or you moved around in circles all the time.. how was that fun and engaging...?
it was actually the same as brawling is now, except you went out of town and not in a different zone. and you had maybe 2 seconds to react instead of zero now.
still it was far from a good experience from my point of view
Well a few thoughts that spring to mind is:
1. Many people really enjoyed it. I personally did not even set foot on the battle net so thats the depth of my experience in D2 PVP. but from what i've read and heard it was not some universally dispised feature in the game.
2. Those who did not enjoy it in D2 did not have to pay any attention to it.
3. Those who want to enjoy it today in D3, Are discouraged from enjoying it or prevented.
So that seems to be the heart of peoples' frustration: they are asking D3, why discourage, why prevent, why drag your feet?
Diablo 2's PvP system was full of holes and issues, but it only ends up being a thing that can be improved...
count and list as many flaws about it as you can and it doesn't tarnish the actual idea of player vs player combat interaction in a 3/4 isometric.
Just like so many games in the past, you put two human minds on a little static battlefield and what happens next is an astronimcal amount of variables and situations, chess does it, league of legends does it, magic the gathering does it. etc etc etc etc. They expand on the concept of human mind pitted against human mind in creative ways.
Same with the AH and crazy legendary weapons.
Even though D2 had broken items duped all to shit and used by damn near everyone every class, and the D3 AH was a sterile piece of shit drowning in boring little objects that cost 2 billion gold.....both of those concerns do not tarnish the "ideas" of fascinating items or competitive trading platforms...those ideas can absolutely flourish if implemented in the correct way.
they are still worth discussing if that makes sense.
Quote from MeatHeadMikhail
Or just keep D3 an ARPG and keep HotS a MOBA...
lol,agree with you
+1
Guys, for crying out loud. This discussions is as old as the franchise. "D2 had PvP and it was great"... "D2 didn't have proper PvP and it sucked balls"....
Let's just not twist the facts or mix them with with the opinionated part of arguments.
D2 didn't have great PvP features, only a few extremely simples ones (still more than D3 which is what bothers a lot of people), and with those functionalities, a thriving small (compared to the how many people played the game) community still managed to do something with it. Maybe those make up for 5-10% of the playerbase, but compare it to Hardcore mode which probably has a similar playerbase and you get what they mean. (also for the record, I wasn't a big PvP player back then and never did proper D2 PvP, just playing devil's advocate here)
Second, people will swear more open PvP was an amazing part of D2 but in general it mostly lead to griefing, and more harmed players than ones having fun. That is hardly a good argument when you're trying to get more features into this part of the game, and will only scare away those who are already on the other side of the fence.
While I think a "real PvP" mode will likely never come to Diablo 3, I also really think there's no reason not to give the players some minor simple tools on Brawling (and make it be at least on par with D2's features) and see what happens from there. Being "scared" of the playerbase using it to demand PvP balancing is a bullshit and lazy reason not to.
If despite not having ANY resemblance of balance, any rewards, a proper matchmaker, leaderboards and all those "mandatory" 2014 PvP perks, the community still thrives and people organize fun events and clan brawls, and even non-PvP players ended up having some fun in those - well, I think the message would be pretty clear for the future.
First off, I don't think anybody is getting upset over anything. That period has long passed.
Saying "be happy with what you have", and then right after recognizing that is nothing is kind of contradicting yourself a bit.
Say whatever you will, but the devs themselves promised PvP. They sold the freaking game (to a lot of ppl) based on that promise, that it would come eventually, that everything that was being reported on Blizzcon by the press was something to be excited about. I have a friend who actually asked for his money back when he found out it wasn't coming, and he got it. So that kinda says how even them recognize the false advertisement.
I'm also willing to bet it was the most popular of the Blizzcon demos (arena), judging from the lines I had to face in 2010. You have no idea how much fun it is to fight actual intelligent enemies in D3's engine.
So yeah, we're all past that point of raging. As the Blizzcon panel suggested, it's time to see "what's next". And to me, it's about time the developers stepped up their game and did something about it. Like I said, D2 had "more" PvP features than D3 - can you realize how sad that sounds? How back then, they had no developing power at all and still did not fret when faced with the challenge of having and "unbalanced" PvP.
Add that to how some people reacted very negatively to "What's Next" (I was there, I could hear the comments of how "excited" people were about Ancient items). I've seen players with thousands of hours go like "wtf are they doing with ancient items?" and not sound to happy with the direction the game is taking now. So maybe, right now, it's the time to rethink exactly what is next. Maybe it's time for something fresh.