Does anyone else think Blizzard needs to improve them more? Just increasing stat rolls! Witch, in my opinion they already need to increase the gap jump between them to start. To me it seems lazy, very weak and once again a lack of depth. Starting this thread to get everyone's opinions and ideas! Feel free to shout out anything that you think can improve ancient items and keep it in a positive manner please.
In my personal opinion, ancient items are a huge mistake as they are essentially a new tier of gear that ridicule all other gear. Once you get an ancient item on a specific slot, almost all other non-ancient items for this slot will be useless (especially true for weapons which are way too overbuffed).
I just hope PTR proves me wrong. But currently I got the feeling anicent items are gonna do the same for RoS what the overpowered items from AH did for us in D3V: make 99% of all loot useless and kill diversity.
In my personal opinion, ancient items are a huge mistake as they are essentially a new tier of gear that ridicule all other gear. Once you get an ancient item on a specific slot, almost all other non-ancient items for this slot will be useless (especially true for weapons which are way too overbuffed).
I just hope PTR proves me wrong. But currently I got the feeling anicent items are gonna do the same for RoS what the overpowered items from AH did for us in D3V: make 99% of all loot useless and kill diversity.
If it's a 10% chance for any given legend to be ancient in T6 it'll only make "90%" of gear useless. Of course 30% of main stat on non-weapon items won't be a particularly huge tipping point.
So really 90% of weapons will be useless. Everything else will be more or less whether or not you want to give up a legendary affix that you currently have in exchange for a gem's worth of stats. And of course the problem with the AH and vanilla was that you couldn't get the items you needed without having them already due to the way ilvl63 dropped.
Ancients will be hit or miss I suppose. But they won't immediately invalidate non-ancient gear since legendary effects actually matter.
How many of the weapons (or items) you find right now are an upgrade for me? If I'd say 10% that would even be an exaggeration, but let's assume 10% (it's safe to say that I salvage 90% of my loot without even identifying it).
As soon as you have an ancient item, it makes 99% of loot useless (only 10% of loot *might* be an upgrade/sidegrade and then there's only a 10% chance for an ancient item).
As I said, let's wait for PTR, but I think the concept is heavily flawed. The panel for me was the biggest "wtf" moment ever: "Here's what we learned from D3V - itemization was flawed" - and they showed a screen with crit Mempos at some point. 10 minutes later they talk about ancient items and I felt like "okay, so you want to go back to those days?"
Ancient items have "up to" a 30% increase, which means many of them may not roll exactly as hot as many of you are thinking. Not sure what the bottom on that is, however.
I think the idea of the Ancient tier is solid, they don't threaten your current gear due to the rarity. Only Softcore Non-Season players are going to hit a wall with these, and that'll take quite some time. Hardcore players and Seasonal players will have a natural item sink built into their play mode, so I see this tier as being better suited for them.
Myself, I'm excited. I don't see what all the fuss is about? There's one inescapable dynamic in Diablo. The longer you play, the harder you're going to have to search for upgrades. I don't see Ancients as affecting this dynamic at all. They offer a chance for casual players that don't have much time to play, to jump onto the leaderboards with one great find.
Let's wait until PTR, but I have to say, these idiotic ideas about upgrading items to Ancient with mats is really shortsighted and silly. I don't think the devs are even going to consider such a fundamentally flawed approach to new item tiers.
Kadala and the Blacksmith DO have a chance to offer up Ancients. But the cost is probably going to be phenomenally painful....or incredibly lucky. Welcome to Diablo!
I see what Bagstone is saying about bringing back the days of 99.9% useless items, and I'm probably the worst person to comment on this because I *liked* those days, but I'm personally really upset with how gear dependent builds are for almost all of the classes. It gets to the point where you can't really start playing the way you want to until you find 7-8 particular pieces, and by then, what are you searching for? A couple little pieces to fill out the corners. I'll give you a couple examples:
My HC Crusader is using a stampede build. To do this at all, you need 6 pieces of akkahn (or 5+rorg, still 6 pieces) and the Phalanx shield. That's over half of my item slots taken up already before I get to even USE my build. If you add in specific pieces that you almost need to do permanant Akkhan, CDR ring, CDR belt, Strongarm bracers, etc you end up with even less pieces to farm for once you've got the items for your build put together. This leads to a pretty miserable existence imo where now i'm not looking for new equipment, but marginally better versions of the same thing I have. It leads to incredibly long periods of time where I just feel like I'm playing to play with no in game reward other than paragon points.
That's why I like the idea of Ancient items. Sure, they are just different versions of the same gear, but they are significantly better, and I think that makes a big difference.
My wife on the other hand will only play Diablo an hour or so a day for a couple days a week. It's literally impossible for her to do ANY of the popular builds because they all require 6+ specific items and they aren't common enough to pick up with the amount of time she'll commit to it. I point this out just to mitigate a little of the sentiment that "well now with ancient items only the serious players (and bots) that play 24/7 are going to be able to compete on the leaderboards" because we're kind of at the point already where anyone playing T6 consistently is playing more than they should have to be.
1) Well, even a 10-20% increase in weapon damage WILL make a huge difference in terms of GR clear speed, don't you think?
Why are we opposed to escalating your character strength through loot hunting? Because of the "luck" factor? That's all these games are, a luck based loot hunt, built on the premise that effort shall begat luck.
2) At least for me, that play mode is all I care about, and I think it's the same for a lot of other players. I can see that on HC you don't really care that much, because you will lose the item, it's only a question of when.
Even in straight non-season SC, it will take you a LONG time to fill every slot in Ancient tiered gear. The same dynamic will be at play as we have now. Once you get geared out, you begin the grinding task of min/maxing every slot.
3) Remove Ancient Weapons and probably 80% of the complaints will vanish.
Complaints about Diablo 3 will likely exist throughout all time. Complaining has been the Modus Operandi of D3 players for over 2 1/2 years. I'm still not sure what the complaint is, exactly? Something something "unfair" something "my gear is obsolete all the sudden"? I don't get it?
leaderboard positions should be earned, even in a game that relies on randomness.
They are. Same exact dynamic we have in play now. The top leaderboard spots are filled 100% by players that have had more luck than you or I. Why would Ancient items change that? Same thing.
There is a powerful misnomer at work here. There is no such thing as "fair" in Diablo. Never has been, there isn't now, there never will be. People are taking this "competition" aspect way too far. It's not meant to be an even-steven match of skill vs skill. Literally, the only way to do that would be to allow every player to pick any perfectly rolled piece of gear for all slots off a shelf of some kind. Then we'd have "fair". We'd also have a betrayal of the fundamental backbone of the Diablo franchise, RnG, loot hunting and luck.
4) Tell me, how is asking to be able to work for your progress (instead of relying on insane luck) in any way idiotic or silly?
You are working for your progress. I'm not sure I follow you on this?
This game isn't about competition just because it has a competitive aspect built into it now. We DO NOT want to dev the game to be fair and to make that competitive aspect the overriding premise of the game. This is a loot hunting,combat-centric affair, and the competition is a sidenote. It's for fun, not for prizes etc.
Do you also think being able to farm Hellfire Amulets is stupid, idiotic or silly?
No, I do it all the time. A high effort, high reward RnG soaked activity.
Thing is, with Hellfires, you have such a small chance of rolling a decent ammy, it's comparable to the small chance of finding an Ancient Furnace etc. Same far off chance.
Being able to roll an item up to an Ancient tier? That sounds a shit load more easy, and guaranteed. I don't like that dynamic. If we could roll items up, everyone would have Ancients filling every slot, thus we'd have no separation between the players. I feel this game requires that dynamic, separation of players.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/russell3773-1387/hero/22070364
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/97279-ancient-items-and-retroactive-changes-to-current
In my personal opinion, ancient items are a huge mistake as they are essentially a new tier of gear that ridicule all other gear. Once you get an ancient item on a specific slot, almost all other non-ancient items for this slot will be useless (especially true for weapons which are way too overbuffed).
I just hope PTR proves me wrong. But currently I got the feeling anicent items are gonna do the same for RoS what the overpowered items from AH did for us in D3V: make 99% of all loot useless and kill diversity.
So really 90% of weapons will be useless. Everything else will be more or less whether or not you want to give up a legendary affix that you currently have in exchange for a gem's worth of stats. And of course the problem with the AH and vanilla was that you couldn't get the items you needed without having them already due to the way ilvl63 dropped.
Ancients will be hit or miss I suppose. But they won't immediately invalidate non-ancient gear since legendary effects actually matter.
As soon as you have an ancient item, it makes 99% of loot useless (only 10% of loot *might* be an upgrade/sidegrade and then there's only a 10% chance for an ancient item).
As I said, let's wait for PTR, but I think the concept is heavily flawed. The panel for me was the biggest "wtf" moment ever: "Here's what we learned from D3V - itemization was flawed" - and they showed a screen with crit Mempos at some point. 10 minutes later they talk about ancient items and I felt like "okay, so you want to go back to those days?"
I think the idea of the Ancient tier is solid, they don't threaten your current gear due to the rarity. Only Softcore Non-Season players are going to hit a wall with these, and that'll take quite some time. Hardcore players and Seasonal players will have a natural item sink built into their play mode, so I see this tier as being better suited for them.
Myself, I'm excited. I don't see what all the fuss is about? There's one inescapable dynamic in Diablo. The longer you play, the harder you're going to have to search for upgrades. I don't see Ancients as affecting this dynamic at all. They offer a chance for casual players that don't have much time to play, to jump onto the leaderboards with one great find.
Let's wait until PTR, but I have to say, these idiotic ideas about upgrading items to Ancient with mats is really shortsighted and silly. I don't think the devs are even going to consider such a fundamentally flawed approach to new item tiers.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
My HC Crusader is using a stampede build. To do this at all, you need 6 pieces of akkahn (or 5+rorg, still 6 pieces) and the Phalanx shield. That's over half of my item slots taken up already before I get to even USE my build. If you add in specific pieces that you almost need to do permanant Akkhan, CDR ring, CDR belt, Strongarm bracers, etc you end up with even less pieces to farm for once you've got the items for your build put together. This leads to a pretty miserable existence imo where now i'm not looking for new equipment, but marginally better versions of the same thing I have. It leads to incredibly long periods of time where I just feel like I'm playing to play with no in game reward other than paragon points.
That's why I like the idea of Ancient items. Sure, they are just different versions of the same gear, but they are significantly better, and I think that makes a big difference.
My wife on the other hand will only play Diablo an hour or so a day for a couple days a week. It's literally impossible for her to do ANY of the popular builds because they all require 6+ specific items and they aren't common enough to pick up with the amount of time she'll commit to it. I point this out just to mitigate a little of the sentiment that "well now with ancient items only the serious players (and bots) that play 24/7 are going to be able to compete on the leaderboards" because we're kind of at the point already where anyone playing T6 consistently is playing more than they should have to be.
Why are we opposed to escalating your character strength through loot hunting? Because of the "luck" factor? That's all these games are, a luck based loot hunt, built on the premise that effort shall begat luck.
Even in straight non-season SC, it will take you a LONG time to fill every slot in Ancient tiered gear. The same dynamic will be at play as we have now. Once you get geared out, you begin the grinding task of min/maxing every slot.
Complaints about Diablo 3 will likely exist throughout all time. Complaining has been the Modus Operandi of D3 players for over 2 1/2 years. I'm still not sure what the complaint is, exactly? Something something "unfair" something "my gear is obsolete all the sudden"? I don't get it?
They are. Same exact dynamic we have in play now. The top leaderboard spots are filled 100% by players that have had more luck than you or I. Why would Ancient items change that? Same thing.
There is a powerful misnomer at work here. There is no such thing as "fair" in Diablo. Never has been, there isn't now, there never will be. People are taking this "competition" aspect way too far. It's not meant to be an even-steven match of skill vs skill. Literally, the only way to do that would be to allow every player to pick any perfectly rolled piece of gear for all slots off a shelf of some kind. Then we'd have "fair". We'd also have a betrayal of the fundamental backbone of the Diablo franchise, RnG, loot hunting and luck.
You are working for your progress. I'm not sure I follow you on this?
This game isn't about competition just because it has a competitive aspect built into it now. We DO NOT want to dev the game to be fair and to make that competitive aspect the overriding premise of the game. This is a loot hunting,combat-centric affair, and the competition is a sidenote. It's for fun, not for prizes etc.
No, I do it all the time. A high effort, high reward RnG soaked activity.
Thing is, with Hellfires, you have such a small chance of rolling a decent ammy, it's comparable to the small chance of finding an Ancient Furnace etc. Same far off chance.
Being able to roll an item up to an Ancient tier? That sounds a shit load more easy, and guaranteed. I don't like that dynamic. If we could roll items up, everyone would have Ancients filling every slot, thus we'd have no separation between the players. I feel this game requires that dynamic, separation of players.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan