Up to 30% stronger Maximus or Furnace (If you are lucky enough to get more than one in your life time), with RNG on top of RNG, uninspired solution.
To a certain explicable degree, the Ancient tier IS inspired. It's inspired by item tiers from Diablo 2 such as Ethereal items and the ability to "up" items to their next base tier (as was directly referenced by Wyatt Chang via Blizzcon). Here's the exact same item type as the one you have. It has the exact affix selection as your current item. However, it has boosted stat ranges, it has more power yet is exceedingly more rare than the item you already have.
RnG has always been our beast of burden in the realm of Sanctuary. When you take a look at the Unique shield Alma Negra, you get a glimpse of a D2 Unique that had wildly varying stats, entirely at the mercy of RnG.
Alma Negra Sacred Rondache Defense: 461-511 Required Level: 77 Required Strength: 109 Chance To Block: 78% Smite Damage: 35 To 58 Durability: 68
In diablo 2, affix values seemed tighter, but the issue is that each value carried such weight, a variance of factors and/or sums of just the slightest degree could reckon an item as either junk or godly. It took me almost 3 years to find a really good Eth Alma Negra for my 'no-taps' Elite Zeal dueler, and that's with trading. Yet so many supposed Diablo 2 fans wish to now pretend that Diablo 2 was some loot friendly drop-fest with near perfect rolls on every other item and RnG had no real influence.
RnG is the purview under which we SHOULD be used to operating, after so many long years of Diablo. Now suddenly people wish to repel it's influence as if it was some advent of Jay Wilson.
I make my case that the Ancient tier IS a step back to the roots of Diablo 2.
@Riffsphere: If they really wanted to appeal to those people who spent a lot of time on the game like Wyatt said, then they could have made it into a recipe that costs already existing materials. No need for nothing new just make it expensive and like really fucking expensive.
@oldschool: You are saying that it would require too much dev time and general funding that the company doesn't have? I doubt that.
Look i know that throwing around the idea for an expensive recipe doesn't say much to people but i think that adding just another layer of rng should't be praised by the playerbase because let's face it it's just another layer of rng with like 30% stat increase on items... nothing special at all. Wyatt described it min/maxing and i think he's wrong. It's an absolute requirement and not min/maxing.
I'm personally kind of indifferent, as i've said before i don't really care if they introduce ancient items the way they showed them or not. I'm saying that i expect them to add something in a more complex manner and not just give us a stat increase every few months.
@Ruksak: Sure, you feel pride when you find a perfectly rolled witching hour for an example (*cough cough) but wouldn't it also make you feel proud if you managed to save up a ton of materials and upgraded your already awesome item into more awesomeness?
I don't have the "gotta have 'em all" mentality, which I guess IS the leaderboard mentality to an extent.
I just look at this announcement as "cool, some of my gear will get better". Because I KNOW some of this WILL drop for me. I also KNOW all of it MAY NOT drop for me, and it's not keeping me awake at night.
I also KNOW others will get some too, and any pretense that it will elevate me above others is simply not realistic.
@Ruksak: Sure, you feel pride when you find a perfectly rolled witching hour for an example (*cough cough) but wouldn't it also make you feel proud if you managed to save up a ton of materials and upgraded your already awesome item into more awesomeness?
First of all, give me that Witching Hour, you son of a bitch.
To answer your question; I'm gonna say "no" and "yes". Yes it would be something neat to be able to up an item manually. The "no" however would be; Everyone would do that to every slot, every item would be up'd in short order. There's no way they'd implement a system that was SOOO expensive, even the rich would only get a shot at an "up" only rarely. Then we'd have people bitching that the RnG of the Vault event is unfair because without the Vault, without the Boon gem, they have no legit shot at an "up".
Ancient items circumvent all this fuss. You don't need to be lucky and get to the Vault. You don't need to be lucky and get a Boon gem. You don't need to play 12 hours a day to get an Ancient. It either drops for you, or it does not drop for you. That is special. Collecting some ridiculous amount of materials and gold smacks me as a pain in the asshole and nothing particularly prideful or special. A great drop has a certain intrinsic pride to it.
@Jamoose: There are several problems with your idea of a recipe: 1) You take away the RNG. They keep saying (I refer to the talk about shrines in greater rifts) that randomness gives replayability. So it would go against that idea. 2) You don't have that "feeling" when it drops. Looking at your WH, you know what I mean. Just the drop of it makes your hart jump, having good rolls even more. 3) Make it too cheap, and it's not special. Make it too expensive, and many people will complain they will never get it. Since it will have to show a number (for example: 1000 forgotten souls) they will notice that. With a low drop rate (that is nowhere officially given, and casual players probably don't look up) they probably will not notice that their chance to get it is about 0. They do notice when people have "green items" and they don't. Also, with RNG, they do have a chance to get it anyway. 4) It will be a lot harder to "increase" their chance. If, for some reason, they want to increase the amount of ancient legendaries (2 day xmas buff? Maybe dropchance is too low after all since only 0.1% has a full set after 6 months?) they would be forced to increase the other drop chance of the mats needed (they could lower the mats required, but that would be unfair, I did spend 1000 souls yesterday and today it's only 500?) resulting in other problems. 5) Other buffs/nerfs will have an impact here as well. (Kadala price went up, but giving more legendaries. They compensated the loss in crafting mats and even increased it. That would have to result in a price increase. Also, the new goblins might have an effect on this.
This is NOT a reference to anyone in this thread, and that's me being honest. But browsing the general feedback @Bnet I'm seeing a great deal of discontent over Ancients. This discontent is symptomatic of a greater issue with today's D3 players.
I'm seeing too much worrying about the possibility that other people could have something that they cannot. Instead of enjoying the prospect of finding something that makes your character take off, that allows you to smash your way onto the boards, people are consumed with fear that others will blow the curve and leave them behind.
I am hit or miss on this new item tier. I am all for options but my gut feeling is that they will find a way to screw it up and it will still be the same couple of items or a new couple of items that will become the new skorn/furnace or whatever.
What I like to see are real options on making gear better. Especially on Rare and Magic items but it should cost a lot of crafting mats to do and a lot of farming for mats that can only be dropped or by completing a difficult task maybe a real tough bounties maybe even having bounties in Rifts and Greater Rifts.
To me everything has just become Legendaries and Sets with maybe a couple of nice rares, but most of those rares are just stop gaps.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
This is NOT a reference to anyone in this thread, and that's me being honest. But browsing the general feedback @Bnet I'm seeing a great deal of discontent over Ancients. This discontent is symptomatic of a greater issue with today's D3 players.
I'm seeing too much worrying about the possibility that other people could have something that they cannot. Instead of enjoying the prospect of finding something that makes your character take off, that allows you to smash your way onto the boards, people are consumed with fear that others will blow the curve and leave them behind.
fear of loss has always been stronger than the thought of gain. It's actually used as a sales technique.
Quote from CobearzA BRAND NEW FEATURE THAT MAKES THE GAME BETTER AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT?
WHATS NEW?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
At least people are politely discussing why they don't like it. The only one looking ridiculous here is you with all those caps so gtfo.
You are right about the caps, but I don't completely agree with the "discussing" part. Some do, but most things that I read is that people dislike the RNG, and even more a (hidden) complaint they don't have the gear they want now, and it will become even harder.
There are 2 ways to give items: either RNG drops, or at some fixed "points" (Even those points would be RNG in most cases. Certain amount of xp? Not all mobs are same amount of XP, some are harder to kill, ... Trade for something else that drops, basically "buy" it with a new currency? When will it drop? Only way to not make that random is to do it at a fixed place and time...).
So people are complaining about RNG in an RNG based game, that is made to grind for the perfect items (and now sadly has leaderboards, resulting in people having an argument why they "need" all those best items, but that part is not the core of the game).
It's not a hidden complaint. I actually think I have the gear I want, of course we always could use some upgrade, but i'm pretty happy with most of my toons.
I'm starting to understand your arguments, but IMO, it's not exactly that it's going to be hard to grind for items (especially because, the grinding might not do shit if you are not "lucky". You got 700p guys, with no furnace, 500p guys with one, and 350p with three for example. Grinding is far from rewarding when is mostly down to luck, arguably.
If sets are unbalanced, and keep changing, it's up for the devs to fix it and at least make them closer. That's way more needed than second tier weapons, It's welcomed as any upgrade we are given, I give you that, but I still maintain it's uninspired band aid, when there are so many things wrong in the game.
Well, we'll take what we can and run with it. I play Diablo since the first game, i'll continue to play it.
This is NOT a reference to anyone in this thread, and that's me being honest. But browsing the general feedback @Bnet I'm seeing a great deal of discontent over Ancients. This discontent is symptomatic of a greater issue with today's D3 players.
I'm seeing too much worrying about the possibility that other people could have something that they cannot. Instead of enjoying the prospect of finding something that makes your character take off, that allows you to smash your way onto the boards, people are consumed with fear that others will blow the curve and leave them behind.
fear of loss has always been stronger than the thought of gain. It's actually used as a sales technique.
Especially with us Barbarians that suffered the tragic loss of Permazerk Barbarian and life steal. One of the most inspired, sinergetic builds ever created, and destroyed by jealousy.
[quote]Quote from CobearzA BRAND NEW FEATURE THAT MAKES THE GAME BETTER AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT?
WHATS NEW?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
At least people are politely discussing why they don't like it. The only one looking ridiculous here is you with all those caps so gtfo.
You are right about the caps, but I don't completely agree with the "discussing" part. Some do, but most things that I read is that people dislike the RNG, and even more a (hidden) complaint they don't have the gear they want now, and it will become even harder.
There are 2 ways to give items: either RNG drops, or at some fixed "points" (Even those points would be RNG in most cases. Certain amount of xp? Not all mobs are same amount of XP, some are harder to kill, ... Trade for something else that drops, basically "buy" it with a new currency? When will it drop? Only way to not make that random is to do it at a fixed place and time...).
So people are complaining about RNG in an RNG based game, that is made to grind for the perfect items (and now sadly has leaderboards, resulting in people having an argument why they "need" all those best items, but that part is not the core of the game).
It's not a hidden complaint. I actually think I have the gear I want, of course we always could use some upgrade, but i'm pretty happy with most of my toons.
I'm starting to understand your arguments, but IMO, it's not exactly that it's going to be hard to grind for items (especially because, the grinding might not do shit if you are not "lucky". You got 700p guys, with no furnace, 500p guys with one, and 350p with three for example. Grinding is far from rewarding when is mostly down to luck, arguably.
If sets are unbalanced, and keep changing, it's up for the devs to fix it and at least make them closer. That's way more needed than second tier weapons, It's welcomed as any upgrade we are given, I give you that, but I still maintain it's uninspired band aid, when there are so many things wrong in the game.
Well, we'll take what we can and run with it. I play Diablo since the first game, i'll continue to play it.
Well, looks like the quote thing is FUBARed again, but this line is perhaps more accurate than most....
This forum software is the worst I've ever seen. Even forums in 1998 didn't bug out like this.
It has become impossible to even quote people correctly, the primary function of a forum.
Is anyone from Curse or the staff ever going to address this issue? Just wipe this software out and go back to whatever we used before. Get your money back, because whomever sold you this piece of shit software....thy ripped your asses off.
[quote] This forum software is the worst I've ever seen. Even forums in 1998 didn't bug out like this.
Test quote ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
You see why this software fails, right?
Look at this amatuer bullshit.
This is what happens when a member tries to quote directly. The quote I'm quoting shows up out of the quote box and appears as if I typed it. Why is this not being addressed?
The quote box above shows my previous post with another members name on it, and what the other member actually wrote himself appears within the context of my post. Pretty jacked up.
1 : blizzard did the exact same thing before ROS launch with all the upgraded legendaries. Coincidence?
2 : it will not be retroactive. The idea is to get people playing again by giving them more to farm. If they made the change retroactive, people wouldnt have to farm.
3 : edit : yes, the forum software is totally fubared. Quotes are one thing. Details like links not opening in new tabs are another thing. Forum owners obviously not caring a 3th ^^
Im really looking forward for ancient items. that change gonna keep me hooked in the next season for some more time than s1.
I also really hope that those items will make grifts more rewarding as it currently feels kind of meh - why would t6 be better for legs/ep per hour than grift 40...i dont get it. really hope the droprate scaling goes beyond t6/grift 25. something like 25%+ on 40+ would feel much better.
It is intentional. Normal rifts are for loot. GRifts are for gem upgrades/ pushing a hero's capabilities / e-peen
choose what you want.
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Wise ElderRnG has always been our beast of burden in the realm of Sanctuary. When you take a look at the Unique shield Alma Negra, you get a glimpse of a D2 Unique that had wildly varying stats, entirely at the mercy of RnG.
Alma Negra
Sacred Rondache
Defense: 461-511
Required Level: 77
Required Strength: 109
Chance To Block: 78%
Smite Damage: 35 To 58
Durability: 68
(Paladin Only)
+180-210% Enhanced Defense
+1-2 To Paladin Skill Levels
20% Increased Chance of Block
30% Faster Block Rate
+40-75% Enhanced Damage
40-75% Bonus to Attack Rating
Magic Damage Reduced By 5-9
In diablo 2, affix values seemed tighter, but the issue is that each value carried such weight, a variance of factors and/or sums of just the slightest degree could reckon an item as either junk or godly. It took me almost 3 years to find a really good Eth Alma Negra for my 'no-taps' Elite Zeal dueler, and that's with trading. Yet so many supposed Diablo 2 fans wish to now pretend that Diablo 2 was some loot friendly drop-fest with near perfect rolls on every other item and RnG had no real influence.
RnG is the purview under which we SHOULD be used to operating, after so many long years of Diablo. Now suddenly people wish to repel it's influence as if it was some advent of Jay Wilson.
I make my case that the Ancient tier IS a step back to the roots of Diablo 2.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
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@oldschool: You are saying that it would require too much dev time and general funding that the company doesn't have? I doubt that.
Look i know that throwing around the idea for an expensive recipe doesn't say much to people but i think that adding just another layer of rng should't be praised by the playerbase because let's face it it's just another layer of rng with like 30% stat increase on items... nothing special at all. Wyatt described it min/maxing and i think he's wrong. It's an absolute requirement and not min/maxing.
I'm personally kind of indifferent, as i've said before i don't really care if they introduce ancient items the way they showed them or not. I'm saying that i expect them to add something in a more complex manner and not just give us a stat increase every few months.
@Ruksak: Sure, you feel pride when you find a perfectly rolled witching hour for an example (*cough cough) but wouldn't it also make you feel proud if you managed to save up a ton of materials and upgraded your already awesome item into more awesomeness?
I just look at this announcement as "cool, some of my gear will get better". Because I KNOW some of this WILL drop for me. I also KNOW all of it MAY NOT drop for me, and it's not keeping me awake at night.
I also KNOW others will get some too, and any pretense that it will elevate me above others is simply not realistic.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
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Wise ElderTo answer your question; I'm gonna say "no" and "yes". Yes it would be something neat to be able to up an item manually. The "no" however would be; Everyone would do that to every slot, every item would be up'd in short order. There's no way they'd implement a system that was SOOO expensive, even the rich would only get a shot at an "up" only rarely. Then we'd have people bitching that the RnG of the Vault event is unfair because without the Vault, without the Boon gem, they have no legit shot at an "up".
Ancient items circumvent all this fuss. You don't need to be lucky and get to the Vault. You don't need to be lucky and get a Boon gem. You don't need to play 12 hours a day to get an Ancient. It either drops for you, or it does not drop for you. That is special. Collecting some ridiculous amount of materials and gold smacks me as a pain in the asshole and nothing particularly prideful or special. A great drop has a certain intrinsic pride to it.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
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@Jamoose: There are several problems with your idea of a recipe:
1) You take away the RNG. They keep saying (I refer to the talk about shrines in greater rifts) that randomness gives replayability. So it would go against that idea.
2) You don't have that "feeling" when it drops. Looking at your WH, you know what I mean. Just the drop of it makes your hart jump, having good rolls even more.
3) Make it too cheap, and it's not special. Make it too expensive, and many people will complain they will never get it. Since it will have to show a number (for example: 1000 forgotten souls) they will notice that. With a low drop rate (that is nowhere officially given, and casual players probably don't look up) they probably will not notice that their chance to get it is about 0. They do notice when people have "green items" and they don't. Also, with RNG, they do have a chance to get it anyway.
4) It will be a lot harder to "increase" their chance. If, for some reason, they want to increase the amount of ancient legendaries (2 day xmas buff? Maybe dropchance is too low after all since only 0.1% has a full set after 6 months?) they would be forced to increase the other drop chance of the mats needed (they could lower the mats required, but that would be unfair, I did spend 1000 souls yesterday and today it's only 500?) resulting in other problems.
5) Other buffs/nerfs will have an impact here as well. (Kadala price went up, but giving more legendaries. They compensated the loss in crafting mats and even increased it. That would have to result in a price increase. Also, the new goblins might have an effect on this.
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Wise ElderI'm seeing too much worrying about the possibility that other people could have something that they cannot. Instead of enjoying the prospect of finding something that makes your character take off, that allows you to smash your way onto the boards, people are consumed with fear that others will blow the curve and leave them behind.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
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What I like to see are real options on making gear better. Especially on Rare and Magic items but it should cost a lot of crafting mats to do and a lot of farming for mats that can only be dropped or by completing a difficult task maybe a real tough bounties maybe even having bounties in Rifts and Greater Rifts.
To me everything has just become Legendaries and Sets with maybe a couple of nice rares, but most of those rares are just stop gaps.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
I'm starting to understand your arguments, but IMO, it's not exactly that it's going to be hard to grind for items (especially because, the grinding might not do shit if you are not "lucky". You got 700p guys, with no furnace, 500p guys with one, and 350p with three for example. Grinding is far from rewarding when is mostly down to luck, arguably.
If sets are unbalanced, and keep changing, it's up for the devs to fix it and at least make them closer. That's way more needed than second tier weapons, It's welcomed as any upgrade we are given, I give you that, but I still maintain it's uninspired band aid, when there are so many things wrong in the game.
Well, we'll take what we can and run with it. I play Diablo since the first game, i'll continue to play it.
Will you always be remembered.
At least people are politely discussing why they don't like it. The only one looking ridiculous here is you with all those caps so gtfo.
You are right about the caps, but I don't completely agree with the "discussing" part. Some do, but most things that I read is that people dislike the RNG, and even more a (hidden) complaint they don't have the gear they want now, and it will become even harder.
There are 2 ways to give items: either RNG drops, or at some fixed "points" (Even those points would be RNG in most cases. Certain amount of xp? Not all mobs are same amount of XP, some are harder to kill, ... Trade for something else that drops, basically "buy" it with a new currency? When will it drop? Only way to not make that random is to do it at a fixed place and time...).
So people are complaining about RNG in an RNG based game, that is made to grind for the perfect items (and now sadly has leaderboards, resulting in people having an argument why they "need" all those best items, but that part is not the core of the game).
It's not a hidden complaint. I actually think I have the gear I want, of course we always could use some upgrade, but i'm pretty happy with most of my toons.
I'm starting to understand your arguments, but IMO, it's not exactly that it's going to be hard to grind for items (especially because, the grinding might not do shit if you are not "lucky". You got 700p guys, with no furnace, 500p guys with one, and 350p with three for example. Grinding is far from rewarding when is mostly down to luck, arguably.
If sets are unbalanced, and keep changing, it's up for the devs to fix it and at least make them closer. That's way more needed than second tier weapons, It's welcomed as any upgrade we are given, I give you that, but I still maintain it's uninspired band aid, when there are so many things wrong in the game.
Well, we'll take what we can and run with it. I play Diablo since the first game, i'll continue to play it.
Well, looks like the quote thing is FUBARed again, but this line is perhaps more accurate than most....
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
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Wise ElderIt has become impossible to even quote people correctly, the primary function of a forum.
Is anyone from Curse or the staff ever going to address this issue? Just wipe this software out and go back to whatever we used before. Get your money back, because whomever sold you this piece of shit software....thy ripped your asses off.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
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Wise ElderTest quote ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
You see why this software fails, right?
Look at this amatuer bullshit.
This is what happens when a member tries to quote directly. The quote I'm quoting shows up out of the quote box and appears as if I typed it. Why is this not being addressed?
The quote box above shows my previous post with another members name on it, and what the other member actually wrote himself appears within the context of my post. Pretty jacked up.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
2 : it will not be retroactive. The idea is to get people playing again by giving them more to farm. If they made the change retroactive, people wouldnt have to farm.
3 : edit : yes, the forum software is totally fubared. Quotes are one thing. Details like links not opening in new tabs are another thing. Forum owners obviously not caring a 3th ^^
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
choose what you want.
Absolutely this.
lol, have to agree here. It really is awful.