As a follow-up to the previous video, today I present a set of 3 (still not optimized) T6 runs yielding 7 billion xp/hr (including rift closing time). While we did have a couple conduits, we also had a player missing for part of a rift, so it averages out. The point is, some xp is possible once you surpass the damage threshold and boost your mobility. I believe fully optimized around 8 billion/hr is possible, though it may require Boon of the Hoarder + Custerian Wristguards for additional xp. Enjoy!
You had some REALY lucky rifts there.
Many conduit, and any rift finished or nearly finished at lvl 1.
If you wouldve got one rift which is finishable only at lvl 3 or 4 the xp per hour wouldve go down to 4-5 billion.
So if you go for some calculstions, do the stuff for atleast 1 hour not 12 minutes.
I talked about everything you just mentioned in the actual video, but I suspected people would still scream 'luck'.
Yes, there is an element of luck. But you're also missing the time spent doing nothing - when I forgot my key frags in my stash, when one of our players wasn't even in the map, when one of our players died, when we didn't split farm the open rifts like you're supposed to, etc.
For the record though, conduits are fairly common and density in T6 has been overall increased. It may 'seem' lucky to you, but this is pretty close to what I've been getting when we have a fast group going.
No one is going to watch 1 hour worth of these rifts (I don't think), so you'll have to take it for what its worth. 'Draw your own conclusions', as the video says.
I've been saying this for a while now but they really should expand difficulty up to t10. Like you said, T6 is such a cakewalk now that it becomes gearing for speed in a group composition as opposed to organized damage. Takes a lot of the fun out of it.
Some people may say thats what greater rifts are for, but grifts are a different ball game with different rift mechanics. Its not really fun going through trials first just so you can do the higher rift tier of your choice.
I've been saying this for a while now but they really should expand difficulty up to t10. Like you said, T6 is such a cakewalk now that it becomes gearing for speed in a group composition as opposed to organized damage. Takes a lot of the fun out of it.
Some people may say thats what greater rifts are for, but grifts are a different ball game with different rift mechanics. Its not really fun going through trials first just so you can do the higher rift tier of your choice.
T7-10 might be overkill, too much stuff to click through. I think if they made T7 though, and made it equal to G40, that would be pretty cool. Since there's no time limit, it would be a real challenge.
This is the guy who made a video last week about "awesome" gold farm that was just above average, also needlessly complicated when doing anything with boon of the hoarder for an hour is basically enough gold for a week.
Now posting a video about xp farming, once again, just above average.
Btw in a complete RNG game you don't make an average by multiplying what you got over 15 minutes and say "xxx xp per hour" (especially not in Rifts) ... you farm for hours then you divide the xp you got by time you farmed for ... (btw nice tip bro, farming t6 rifts in group, I wish i thought about that myself, oh wait, there are 3k ppl in t6 public games right now)
From Gabynator's stream info, Q&A section (highest paragon player and top solo DH)
Q. How long did it take you, on average, to level to Paragon 1000 per day?
Gabynator: Bounty solo 14h and rift about 18h
I seriously don't get why you keep posting these, but I know you'll keep going.
See you next week for another great video.
Guess I'll troll back, why not.
Just above average gold farm? Ok, show video of gold farming with that amount of gf% and exceeding 700m/hr.
And another 'just above average' xp farming video ... ok, please show me what 'incredible' looks like then. I'm not saying 10b can't be done, I would just like to see it in action, or it's fluff.
As for farming for hours, I know what I get, but I'm not going to make a video that's several hours long.
As for gaby, I know exactly how he leveled and exactly how long it took, considering we have been in the same clan together for months.
Why do I keep posting them? Because I can. And because these 'average' videos are quite a bit above average, and proven as such. I don't claim 'fastest', but I do claim 'good', and have something to show for it. If you have something to show that's significantly better, please do.
As a follow-up to the previous video, today I present a set of 3 (still not optimized) T6 runs yielding 7 billion xp/hr (including rift closing time). While we did have a couple conduits, we also had a player missing for part of a rift, so it averages out. The point is, some xp is possible once you surpass the damage threshold and boost your mobility. I believe fully optimized around 8 billion/hr is possible, though it may require Boon of the Hoarder + Custerian Wristguards for additional xp. Enjoy!
7b exp per hour is good, especially for the group composition you had. Indeed, with a bit of optimization (especially with classes and group composition) you should be able to reach the 8b per hour. With a fully optimized (classes + gear), you can reach 10b per hour.
On a side note, I wanted to get in contact with you to ask you if you could "Theory Craft" a little about how much experience you make when closing a rift after the boss compared to the experience you gain from clearing the rifts.
NB: If you decide to close the rifts after the RG, you will chew through your rift fragments way quicker (3 or 4 times quicker?). Therefore, the time it takes you to refill the rift fragments stock should be taken into account.
Thank you for your videos, I have personally found them useful.
EDIT: Regarding the average exp you make, maybe you could record a longer video (1h to 2 hours?) and when editing, you speed up in the middle, while running the rifts, to make a 15min video?
generally farming for key fragments is a defraying of a different set of costs (aka perfect RoRG). So closing the rift early has an extremely tiny opportunity while the payoff of faster shards is so large
As for optimization you probably want: monk AND barb for party movespeed, and a jade to just oneshot everything. whoever the fourth is should be able to do damage on the run AND also have a great movespeed skill for themselves. you want atleast one pull (monk is best) and should gear horder/custerian/gold paragon, dont neglect pick up radius/goldfind on gear either
Agree, 7b is decent speed over a few hours. It's probably quite stressful to maintain a higher average over, let's say, more than 3-4 hours, especially given that most people are humans who have human needs from time to time :-) That being said, extrapolated over 1 hour it's not very high. You say that in your video yourself, MHM - that it's no optimized - but in the end you say something like "8b is possible" while you admit yourself that this group was not optimized. So of course you can get much higher :-)
So, just a couple of suggestions for your next video, as I'm really interested in seeing more speed runs:
1) You definitely want a monk. You say it's "optional", but it's not. Monk is the #1 speed farm character, not just because of Annihilation, also because of its insane damage. If you have a very well-geared monk this is an extreme speed farm spec that I run sometimes (very squishy, but works when everything dies almost instantly): http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#UkPXdj!ZXfU!bYYcYZ - it's optimized for max movement speed, but of course Fleet Footed instead of Harmony means you drop a lot of EHP and Zephyr instead of Insight means even more MS for some DPS. I prefer Fire Ally over Sweeping Wind as I find 20% damage buff much better than a second spender.
2) Barb is definitely #2 fixed character, as you said in your video. The reason why I value monk higher than barb is because the barb just sometimes pulls ahead, especially when it's a Raekor barb on steroids. I wonder what other people's barb group specs are though. I've experimented with a lightning WW spec (no Rend as I think it doesn't fit a "speed farm" with a slow dot kill). Something like that: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#hdPjUk!jgSX!YZZYcc - with Thunderfury, Odyn Son, IK boots/chest/gloves (perma fury regen thanks to your Ancients), Hexing Pants, Aughild's shoulders+bracers (possibly Strongarms but oftentimes you just hit stuff once anyways), Andariel's, and of course Chilanik's Chain. Any suggestions for other builds?
3) Third character is Crusader. As I don't play seasons the only real option here is Stampede, though I'm experimenting with a Roland's setup (very squishy, but can deal quite some damage as well, it's just that there are only 1% of Crusaders actually not auto-salvaging this set and thinking about its possible use cases). If you kill stuff quickly enough such that it doesn't deal damage, the Roland's set could be awesome for quick burst. But for now, this is my favorite "glass canon" Stampede build: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/crusader#PdQjVX!afSg!bYcaYZ - Hasteful instead of Prophet for insane attack speed, Wings of Angels for insane movement speed. Iron Skin is a sub for Shield Glare (it's impossible to keep the 20% damage buff up on all mobs anyways).
4) We're still not certain for the fourth spot: we tried jade WD but with all three other classes being melee, the elites are oftentimes dead before you can harvest. Pet WD is almost zero DPS as pets shine against single targets, not in this kind of gameplay, so ruled out. As for wizards, Wand of Woh spec might be an option (with Teleport/Wormhole and Diamond Skin/Sleek Shell); almost every other wizard spec is kind of useless (in particular Blizzard/Hydra Firebird's wizard is completely pointless for speed runs in groups). DH might actually be an option - although most stuff will be dead by the time the sentries start shooting, it helps to "clean up the rest". It's kind of the opposite of the jade WD: the jade WD can easily blow up big groups of mobs, whereas the DH is particularly useful in rifts with "bad density" and 2-3 mobs every now and then, when the jade WD feels somewhat lost. Most recently I've been thinking about taking on a second monk... could run a more support-oriented build, with Unity, Inna's set, and CS. Would mean you'd lose some SWK damage, but add significant buffs to the group overall. And four melee classes would just synergize extremely well (especially due to the fact that the three melee classes add better "always on" support to the group, as opposed to most ranged support buffs that need to be applied to mobs first or have high CDR, like Marked for Death or BBV).
Regarding the gold find discussion: here's a thread of someone getting 850m/hour. I've spent way too much time optimizing my GF gear and setup (same as in this post, just a bit higher DPS, but also 13k GF) - doing exactly what he did but quitting the game whenever I thought I had cleared most of the "good scarab spots" I got close to 1b in one hour (I think 970m, didn't record it). If you're lucky with the scarab spots in the Ruins of Corvus, have insane GF gear (I think you can go as high as 18k with perfect GF and a legacy Kymbo's Gold) you can get over 1b/h. Not really worth it though... I've used it once and stashed all my GF gear.
7b exp per hour is good, especially for the group composition you had. Indeed, with a bit of optimization (especially with classes and group composition) you should be able to reach the 8b per hour. With a fully optimized (classes + gear), you can reach 10b per hour.
On a side note, I wanted to get in contact with you to ask you if you could "Theory Craft" a little about how much experience you make when closing a rift after the boss compared to the experience you gain from clearing the rifts.
NB: If you decide to close the rifts after the RG, you will chew through your rift fragments way quicker (3 or 4 times quicker?). Therefore, the time it takes you to refill the rift fragments stock should be taken into account.
Thank you for your videos, I have personally found them useful.
EDIT: Regarding the average exp you make, maybe you could record a longer video (1h to 2 hours?) and when editing, you speed up in the middle, while running the rifts, to make a 15min video? I'm still curious to see a video of this 10b/hr.
With regards to closing vs. full clearing, if you want to optimize for maximum xp then you clear if you're on a high density map, close otherwise. If you're by the next level, you can pop in and check map layout and instantly leave if it's not a known good one. Generally a 'good' one is any large open area where you can split farm.
7 billion is not a bad average to keep consistently, havent really seen many do more then 7.2-7.5b pr hour consistenly over a spand of a few hours..
im very curious however, to weither or not, the people claiming people do 10b pr hour, are using leorics ring, gem etc.. Cause the rng in rifts makes me believe something is fishy, if u say that you can do 10b pr hour over a spand of 5 hours of nonstop farming. but i could be wrong, so please enlighten me
XP rings/gem don't provide that much on T6 because they're additive. Using hoarder/custerians/gf amy/goldskin will provide more.
generally farming for key fragments is a defraying of a different set of costs (aka perfect RoRG). So closing the rift early has an extremely tiny opportunity while the payoff of faster shards is so large
Yup, this is something you also have to take into consideration. And while this is a different topic, organized t6 split bounty farming can actually provide just as much xp if done right (you can 'stagger-port' to each other to complete bounties so you get xp for all of them), but it requires a lot of coordination.
As for optimization you probably want: monk AND barb for party movespeed, and a jade to just oneshot everything. whoever the fourth is should be able to do damage on the run AND also have a great movespeed skill for themselves. you want atleast one pull (monk is best) and should gear horder/custerian/gold paragon, dont neglect pick up radius/goldfind on gear either
I respectfully disagree. Pull monk is actually a hindrance because it means less dps while 1 player is focused on pulling. Elites in 4 mans now go down in 2-3 seconds anyway. Jade also useless because you don't have time to dot, wait for spread, group, AND boom. You really need burst & mobility.
thats what i thought, running with boon gem etc, i havent watched OP's vids.. but it was as i expected ty for info
p.s anyone not running the boon gem/custerian/goldwrap etc, 7billion is a VERY NICE speed, especually if its continious farming over a few hours
Boon/custerian/goldskin/gf ammy/sun keeper (if possible) in speed t6, especially if you're running so fast you never really pick up the gold, probably won't give more 500m/hour. This is just my estimation though. Maybe if you can work in avarice band to pick up the gold quicker while moving past mobs. It's something I plan to explore for sure.
Agree, 7b is decent speed over a few hours. It's probably quite stressful to maintain a higher average over, let's say, more than 3-4 hours, especially given that most people are humans who have human needs from time to time :-) That being said, extrapolated over 1 hour it's not very high. You say that in your video yourself, MHM - that it's no optimized - but in the end you say something like "8b is possible" while you admit yourself that this group was not optimized. So of course you can get much higher :-)
So, just a couple of suggestions for your next video, as I'm really interested in seeing more speed runs:
1) You definitely want a monk. You say it's "optional", but it's not. Monk is the #1 speed farm character, not just because of Annihilation, also because of its insane damage. If you have a very well-geared monk this is an extreme speed farm spec that I run sometimes (very squishy, but works when everything dies almost instantly): http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#UkPXdj!ZXfU!bYYcYZ - it's optimized for max movement speed, but of course Fleet Footed instead of Harmony means you drop a lot of EHP and Zephyr instead of Insight means even more MS for some DPS. I prefer Fire Ally over Sweeping Wind as I find 20% damage buff much better than a second spender.
2) Barb is definitely #2 fixed character, as you said in your video. The reason why I value monk higher than barb is because the barb just sometimes pulls ahead, especially when it's a Raekor barb on steroids. I wonder what other people's barb group specs are though. I've experimented with a lightning WW spec (no Rend as I think it doesn't fit a "speed farm" with a slow dot kill). Something like that: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#hdPjUk!jgSX!YZZYcc - with Thunderfury, Odyn Son, IK boots/chest/gloves (perma fury regen thanks to your Ancients), Hexing Pants, Aughild's shoulders+bracers (possibly Strongarms but oftentimes you just hit stuff once anyways), Andariel's, and of course Chilanik's Chain. Any suggestions for other builds?
3) Third character is Crusader. As I don't play seasons the only real option here is Stampede, though I'm experimenting with a Roland's setup (very squishy, but can deal quite some damage as well, it's just that there are only 1% of Crusaders actually not auto-salvaging this set and thinking about its possible use cases). If you kill stuff quickly enough such that it doesn't deal damage, the Roland's set could be awesome for quick burst. But for now, this is my favorite "glass canon" Stampede build: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/crusader#PdQjVX!afSg!bYcaYZ - Hasteful instead of Prophet for insane attack speed, Wings of Angels for insane movement speed. Iron Skin is a sub for Shield Glare (it's impossible to keep the 20% damage buff up on all mobs anyways).
4) We're still not certain for the fourth spot: we tried jade WD but with all three other classes being melee, the elites are oftentimes dead before you can harvest. Pet WD is almost zero DPS as pets shine against single targets, not in this kind of gameplay, so ruled out. As for wizards, Wand of Woh spec might be an option (with Teleport/Wormhole and Diamond Skin/Sleek Shell); almost every other wizard spec is kind of useless (in particular Blizzard/Hydra Firebird's wizard is completely pointless for speed runs in groups). DH might actually be an option - although most stuff will be dead by the time the sentries start shooting, it helps to "clean up the rest". It's kind of the opposite of the jade WD: the jade WD can easily blow up big groups of mobs, whereas the DH is particularly useful in rifts with "bad density" and 2-3 mobs every now and then, when the jade WD feels somewhat lost. Most recently I've been thinking about taking on a second monk... could run a more support-oriented build, with Unity, Inna's set, and CS. Would mean you'd lose some SWK damage, but add significant buffs to the group overall. And four melee classes would just synergize extremely well (especially due to the fact that the three melee classes add better "always on" support to the group, as opposed to most ranged support buffs that need to be applied to mobs first or have high CDR, like Marked for Death or BBV).
Regarding the gold find discussion: here's a thread of someone getting 850m/hour. I've spent way too much time optimizing my GF gear and setup (same as in this post, just a bit higher DPS, but also 13k GF) - doing exactly what he did but quitting the game whenever I thought I had cleared most of the "good scarab spots" I got close to 1b in one hour (I think 970m, didn't record it). If you're lucky with the scarab spots in the Ruins of Corvus, have insane GF gear (I think you can go as high as 18k with perfect GF and a legacy Kymbo's Gold) you can get over 1b/h. Not really worth it though... I've used it once and stashed all my GF gear.
Thanks for the feedback.
1) I'm definitely going to be looking at monk soon. Pretty excited to follow up on a lower-end speed farm build I made months ago, which now has a lot more potential with the new buffs to the game. I agree this is mandatory spot. 4x monks optimized for move speed might actually be the fastest, though Raekors with Chilaniks and Condemn sader would be pretty close I think.
3) Condemn will definitely beat stampede for speed t6 easy because you don't have to stop, though with proper stutterstepping stampede is pretty good still.
4) Definitely not on Jade, ramp up too long. I'd say no to DH as well unless they're running a TON of CDR or 4.15 calamity, ramp up too long. Wiz I wouldn't discount. It wasn't always the case in the video I posted, but over half the time I'm ahead of the group (probably because it's not optimized) and I just tag & teleport while someone behind me 'cleans up', though with Furnace blizz ticks most trash dies by the time I'm across to the other side of the screen. You also don't necessarily need 4 different classes.
5) As for the gold thing, it's mainly for fun, and to check longer term implications for integrating boon and possibly avarice band into speed t6 builds.
Hm.. I average about 8.5 with x2 DH, Barb + Crus. (Very suboptmilap grp set up). As it consists of not one but two DHs.With good rifts we go 9b++ / hour.
(Basing this after about 3-4 hours of rifting)
So it would be foolish to say that a good grp set up for t6 rifts would not go at least above 10b/hour. Probaly higher even.
Regardless it is nice having people making videos to give the community a goal to aim for =)
I want to clarify, by pull monk, i meant a dps monk with cyclone strike/dashing strike on his bar. It is pretty trivial to set up a gen-wuko build with inner fire that can collect a couple screens worth of mobs at once while still damaging all of them. As for DH, m6 could (barely) work for clean up as your group runs past stuff, but that isnt really optimal as you want stuff to die while your character is next to them, so more melee is actually better and I am sure that a high end strafe build will do more damage on the run. Along those lines firebirds with WoH is probably the best wiz spec to go, tho if you *really* want to go down the rabbit hole, perma archon/vyrs might compete as well (infinite teleports is awesome).
After playing some more on my jade, I agree that they do not belong because tho they are amazing for turning a slow run into a ~7minuit one, they are still kinda hardcapped from needing atleast two clicks to kill a whole pack which means the platue in usefulness before the really ridiculous clear times.
Now that I think about it more, you probably also want everyone wearing wreath of lightning too. The real limit for speed farm is how fast your slowest partymember can move and how many clicks it takes to kill a screen.
EDIT: pick up radius is essential to keeping up your movespeed buffs/custerian procs. So your characters probably want atleast 10 (maybe even 20) so avarice band might be required if the rest of the gear doesnt have it
There's something I need to get off my chest. It might sound off-topic, but since you, MHM, mention it in your video yourself I feel the need to point this out, as a few people now picked up on this point.
Why do people assume that Custerian Wristguards increase their XP per hour when speed rifting?
If you play *solo*, and you run full gold find gear, and you run Ruins of Corvus, you can get up to 1b gold/hour (we established this earlier in this thread). That's 1b XP/hour. However, solo in Ruins of Corvus with full gold find gear you will not get 7b XP/hour. Actually, you'll probably not even get 5b XP/hour, way less than that! (In the previous thread I linked the guy said he made 2b XP/hour).
In a group, you will (on average) get every fourth killing blow which means significantly less gold. Also, in rift you don't have the little scarabs from Ruins of Corvus, which further lessens your gold income. And of course you can't run full gold find gear; who wants to sacrifice Taskers for Goldskin or Etrayu for Raven's Wing? A Witching Hour for Goldwrap? Who has goldfind as every secondary? No one. So instead of 13k GF (GF gear) you will rather have something like 5k GF. Let's be very very optimistic and say you make 200m gold/hour with Boon of the Hoarder in a T6 group. That is 200m XP, or about 3% increase of the XP gained in this video.
For Boon of the Hoarder, however, you sacrifice a legendary gem, which will give you probably something between 20 and 30% more damage. If all four people in a T6 group decrease their DPS by ~25%, you will notice it. Even if it's facerolling, 25% less damage means 25% less kill speed. All that for some 3% more XP? Not really, c'mon.
Now, I often hear people saying "I always run on T6 with Boon of the Hoarder and we're still super fast". Yes of course you're super fast, but if you're the only one wearing Boon of the Hoarder it means you're the one who's slacking. Essentially, 3 of your friends are helping you to farm gold. Instead, you could significantly boost your DPS by equipping a reasonable legendary gem, contribute as much as you can, and not wear this fun item. Keep it for solo farming, when you're not dragging a group down.
Sorry for the rant, but this really grinds my gears. If someone thinks there's a big mistake in my argument please feel free to point it out. Until then:
TL;DR: Do not equip Boon of the Hoarder or any GF gear if you want to make a serious effort for T6 speed rifting/paragon farming in groups.
Notes: Edit: MHM, if you think this doesn't belong here just tell me and I'll split this into a separate thread.
Bagstone, the hardest limit to surpass is the characters move speed. Sacrificing that much damage just isnt a big deal for speedrifting t6. You dont need to run full gold find gear, but merely the best ones with the best payoff. You run wristguards if you dont need augilds dont need strongarms or reapers or whatever, and you dont run boon for the gold (though that is a bonus) but you run boon for movespeed, forget goldwrap and the rest.
To go from slow to moderate speed in t6 you need to ramp up your damage i agree, but talking optimized groups that regularly do GR40+, trust me, the damage wont be an issue. I spend way more time getting to mobs in t6 than actually killing them now-days so boon and wristguards are absolutely worth it
Do do t6 fast you need: speedsader, speedbarb, speedmonk + there is no other speed class i guess? Then another speedsader to chain 50% ms law with first.
There's something I need to get off my chest. It might sound off-topic, but since you, MHM, mention it in your video yourself I feel the need to point this out, as a few people now picked up on this point.
Why do people assume that Custerian Wristguards increase their XP per hour when speed rifting?
If you play *solo*, and you run full gold find gear, and you run Ruins of Corvus, you can get up to 1b gold/hour (we established this earlier in this thread). That's 1b XP/hour. However, solo in Ruins of Corvus with full gold find gear you will not get 7b XP/hour. Actually, you'll probably not even get 5b XP/hour, way less than that! (In the previous thread I linked the guy said he made 2b XP/hour).
In a group, you will (on average) get every fourth killing blow which means significantly less gold. Also, in rift you don't have the little scarabs from Ruins of Corvus, which further lessens your gold income. And of course you can't run full gold find gear; who wants to sacrifice Taskers for Goldskin or Etrayu for Raven's Wing? A Witching Hour for Goldwrap? Who has goldfind as every secondary? No one. So instead of 13k GF (GF gear) you will rather have something like 5k GF. Let's be very very optimistic and say you make 200m gold/hour with Boon of the Hoarder in a T6 group. That is 200m XP, or about 3% increase of the XP gained in this video.
For Boon of the Hoarder, however, you sacrifice a legendary gem, which will give you probably something between 20 and 30% more damage. If all four people in a T6 group decrease their DPS by ~25%, you will notice it. Even if it's facerolling, 25% less damage means 25% less kill speed. All that for some 3% more XP? Not really, c'mon.
Now, I often hear people saying "I always run on T6 with Boon of the Hoarder and we're still super fast". Yes of course you're super fast, but if you're the only one wearing Boon of the Hoarder it means you're the one who's slacking. Essentially, 3 of your friends are helping you to farm gold. Instead, you could significantly boost your DPS by equipping a reasonable legendary gem, contribute as much as you can, and not wear this fun item. Keep it for solo farming, when you're not dragging a group down.
Sorry for the rant, but this really grinds my gears. If someone thinks there's a big mistake in my argument please feel free to point it out. Until then:
TL;DR: Do not equip Boon of the Hoarder or any GF gear if you want to make a serious effort for T6 speed rifting/paragon farming in groups.
I agree to an extent, but it's all dependent on gear. Consider the following:
1) There is a finite damage threshold for all mob types in T6, which can be surpassed through a combination of gear, build, paragon points, and legendary gems. Basically, once you get a certain amount of damage output where you 'overkill' trash mobs (doing more damage than necessary to reduce them to 0 hp), any additional damage is wasted, and reducing elite pack kill time from 5 seconds down to 3 seconds doesn't mean much. These speed farm builds are predicated on this fact.
2) The second limit to xp/hr is mobility, however this can actually be a hindrance if you're moving TOO fast. Boon gem is nice for the 30% move speed buff (assuming you have a good pickup radius), and if you can add in wreath of lightning for another 25%, you're already sitting at 25 (paragon) + 25 + 30 = 80% move speed. Once you add in a sprint-like ability between packs of enemies, any additional movement speed (such as warzechian armguards) will make you move SO fast that you'll lose track of where you're going and actually hit dead ends, have to backtrack, etc - unless you're really good at navigating while flying across the screen. Not to mention class skills/passives/abilities which will naturally boost you to ridiculous move speeds. Monks have a mantra passive + passive that will add another 20% total above the move speed cap, so that's already 100% extra move speed for monks without any other skills like the fast tempest rush, annihilation, etc. Saders can easily break 200% when riding the pony, etc.
3) The third limit to xp/hr is ... xp/mob. In a way, this can be increased (once damage threshold is met) via avarice band (mandatory because of mobility, you have to have the pickup radius), any amulet with gold find as a secondary, custerian wristguards, and if possible goldskin. To a lesser extent you can also roll +xp per monster kill and go for xp gear, assuming once again the damage threshold is met. Weapon only if you can swing it - such as Sun Keeper for firebirds wiz, which works great in T6 anyway. However, you are right that you won't be killing everything, so you're looking at maybe (at the high end), ~500m xp/hr extra. Still, over the long term that's quite a bit.
Why would you list this as seven billion per hour when don't even do a full hour. You basically rolled the dice here three times and multiplied by three and said, "Welp! That's what it'd be!" Put in several ours before you claim this kind of BS.
I've been saying this for a while now but they really should expand difficulty up to t10. Like you said, T6 is such a cakewalk now that it becomes gearing for speed in a group composition as opposed to organized damage. Takes a lot of the fun out of it.
Some people may say thats what greater rifts are for, but grifts are a different ball game with different rift mechanics. Its not really fun going through trials first just so you can do the higher rift tier of your choice.
I think that repeating the same content over and over again, regardless of the difficulty, is what takes out the fun.
Why would you list this as seven billion per hour when don't even do a full hour. You basically rolled the dice here three times and multiplied by three and said, "Welp! That's what it'd be!" Put in several ours before you claim this kind of BS.
Because no one is going to watch several hours worth of runs, and anything I post in a spreadsheet is - technically - hearsay. I like to provide proof in my videos. It's not BS - it's right there in front of you. Guess I'll just keep rolling the dice then, over and over.
I've been saying this for a while now but they really should expand difficulty up to t10. Like you said, T6 is such a cakewalk now that it becomes gearing for speed in a group composition as opposed to organized damage. Takes a lot of the fun out of it.
Some people may say thats what greater rifts are for, but grifts are a different ball game with different rift mechanics. Its not really fun going through trials first just so you can do the higher rift tier of your choice.
I think that repeating the same content over and over again, regardless of the difficulty, is what takes out the fun.
Why would you list this as seven billion per hour when don't even do a full hour. You basically rolled the dice here three times and multiplied by three and said, "Welp! That's what it'd be!" Put in several ours before you claim this kind of BS.
Because no one is going to watch several hours worth of runs, and anything I post in a spreadsheet is - technically - hearsay. I like to provide proof in my videos. It's not BS - it's right there in front of you. Guess I'll just keep rolling the dice then, over and over.
I've been saying this for a while now but they really should expand difficulty up to t10. Like you said, T6 is such a cakewalk now that it becomes gearing for speed in a group composition as opposed to organized damage. Takes a lot of the fun out of it.
Some people may say thats what greater rifts are for, but grifts are a different ball game with different rift mechanics. Its not really fun going through trials first just so you can do the higher rift tier of your choice.
I think that repeating the same content over and over again, regardless of the difficulty, is what takes out the fun.
Welcome to endgame - for every game in existence.
You must not play very many games then, because, in my experience, most multiplayer games get regular/semi-regular content updates. Yeah, you repeat the content for a few months, sure, but then they add more.
The only content update Diablo 3 has gotten in recent memory is RoS (adventure mode and rifts). Before that, it was Ubers. That's two content updates (content meaning actual content, not difficulty levels).
span>You must not play very many games then, because, in my experience, most multiplayer games get regular/semi-regular content updates. Yeah, you repeat the content for a few months, sure, but then they add more.
The only content update Diablo 3 has gotten in recent memory is RoS (adventure mode and rifts). Before that, it was Ubers. That's two content updates (content meaning actual content, not difficulty levels).
What other POPULAR games that do NOT have micro-transactions and/or do NOT have a subscription fee continuously add new content?
D3 has come a very long way since release, people conveniently ignore that. The same people who claim D2 was soooo awesome when it had 1 expansion, much less frequent patching/content/feature updates, and what all sorts of messed up by comparison.
IMO, people expect to spend $50 and keep getting 'new content' for life, without giving anything in return (more $). That's not how a business works.
span>*facepalm* Yeah you are right, nobody is watching several hours but that's not the point. You provided proof, that you are naive in believing you can pull something out of those few minutes.
What if those rifts had been horrible in map design, density, floor count, whatever and you had only gotten 2b/hour. I assume you would have closed D3, didn't make a video and just tried it the next day again. You would have said to yourself "yeah we got bad luck. We are so well geared...2b/hour is not the average we can pull off, must be higher"
The video could have been like this:
Hi I'm MHM, I will do a exp/hour test today with my group starting at timeX, expY.
-> Gameplay, talk about what you want to talk about. Group composition etc.
cut -> conclusion:
We did runs for 4 hours now with a 10min break in the middle. I will include those 10min of zero effectiveness in my average nonetheless, because playing with 4 people high focused for 4 hours straight is just not realistic. Someone has to go to the toilet
Here is my result: timeX2, expY2, so the result is Z b/hour. Final thoughts, Thanks for watching.
The point is, that you take 11 minutes and make conclusions about hours...what?
Here is an analogy:
I record a video of me going to Kadala, gamble 5 items and get 3 legendaries. I open a thread "60% legendary drop rate on Kadala - blizzard pls dont dull down game".
People would laugh at me and point me to the RNG thread.
And that is happeing here aswell. People are pointing out, that a sample size of 3 rifts in 11 minutes is just not enough. Not even for a proof of concept.
By 'people' you mean yourself, and that's fine. Thank you for the detailed explanation of how I should make my videos. I've been doing it wrong all along!
PS. T6 rifts are generally pretty dense now. Even the 'empty' rifts are still pretty decent for xp/hr. If you manage to hit 7b like I did in my video, no matter how bad the rift is you'll never drop down to 2.
http://youtu.be/40RIOp5d8mI
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
Yes, there is an element of luck. But you're also missing the time spent doing nothing - when I forgot my key frags in my stash, when one of our players wasn't even in the map, when one of our players died, when we didn't split farm the open rifts like you're supposed to, etc.
For the record though, conduits are fairly common and density in T6 has been overall increased. It may 'seem' lucky to you, but this is pretty close to what I've been getting when we have a fast group going.
No one is going to watch 1 hour worth of these rifts (I don't think), so you'll have to take it for what its worth. 'Draw your own conclusions', as the video says.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
Some people may say thats what greater rifts are for, but grifts are a different ball game with different rift mechanics. Its not really fun going through trials first just so you can do the higher rift tier of your choice.
Video please, or 'I do 20b/hour'.
Guess I'll troll back, why not.
Just above average gold farm? Ok, show video of gold farming with that amount of gf% and exceeding 700m/hr.
And another 'just above average' xp farming video ... ok, please show me what 'incredible' looks like then. I'm not saying 10b can't be done, I would just like to see it in action, or it's fluff.
As for farming for hours, I know what I get, but I'm not going to make a video that's several hours long.
As for gaby, I know exactly how he leveled and exactly how long it took, considering we have been in the same clan together for months.
Why do I keep posting them? Because I can. And because these 'average' videos are quite a bit above average, and proven as such. I don't claim 'fastest', but I do claim 'good', and have something to show for it. If you have something to show that's significantly better, please do.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
Thank you for this video.
7b exp per hour is good, especially for the group composition you had. Indeed, with a bit of optimization (especially with classes and group composition) you should be able to reach the 8b per hour. With a fully optimized (classes + gear), you can reach 10b per hour.
On a side note, I wanted to get in contact with you to ask you if you could "Theory Craft" a little about how much experience you make when closing a rift after the boss compared to the experience you gain from clearing the rifts.
NB: If you decide to close the rifts after the RG, you will chew through your rift fragments way quicker (3 or 4 times quicker?). Therefore, the time it takes you to refill the rift fragments stock should be taken into account.
Thank you for your videos, I have personally found them useful.
EDIT: Regarding the average exp you make, maybe you could record a longer video (1h to 2 hours?) and when editing, you speed up in the middle, while running the rifts, to make a 15min video?
So, just a couple of suggestions for your next video, as I'm really interested in seeing more speed runs:
1) You definitely want a monk. You say it's "optional", but it's not. Monk is the #1 speed farm character, not just because of Annihilation, also because of its insane damage. If you have a very well-geared monk this is an extreme speed farm spec that I run sometimes (very squishy, but works when everything dies almost instantly): http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#UkPXdj!ZXfU!bYYcYZ - it's optimized for max movement speed, but of course Fleet Footed instead of Harmony means you drop a lot of EHP and Zephyr instead of Insight means even more MS for some DPS. I prefer Fire Ally over Sweeping Wind as I find 20% damage buff much better than a second spender.
2) Barb is definitely #2 fixed character, as you said in your video. The reason why I value monk higher than barb is because the barb just sometimes pulls ahead, especially when it's a Raekor barb on steroids. I wonder what other people's barb group specs are though. I've experimented with a lightning WW spec (no Rend as I think it doesn't fit a "speed farm" with a slow dot kill). Something like that: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#hdPjUk!jgSX!YZZYcc - with Thunderfury, Odyn Son, IK boots/chest/gloves (perma fury regen thanks to your Ancients), Hexing Pants, Aughild's shoulders+bracers (possibly Strongarms but oftentimes you just hit stuff once anyways), Andariel's, and of course Chilanik's Chain. Any suggestions for other builds?
3) Third character is Crusader. As I don't play seasons the only real option here is Stampede, though I'm experimenting with a Roland's setup (very squishy, but can deal quite some damage as well, it's just that there are only 1% of Crusaders actually not auto-salvaging this set and thinking about its possible use cases). If you kill stuff quickly enough such that it doesn't deal damage, the Roland's set could be awesome for quick burst. But for now, this is my favorite "glass canon" Stampede build: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/crusader#PdQjVX!afSg!bYcaYZ - Hasteful instead of Prophet for insane attack speed, Wings of Angels for insane movement speed. Iron Skin is a sub for Shield Glare (it's impossible to keep the 20% damage buff up on all mobs anyways).
4) We're still not certain for the fourth spot: we tried jade WD but with all three other classes being melee, the elites are oftentimes dead before you can harvest. Pet WD is almost zero DPS as pets shine against single targets, not in this kind of gameplay, so ruled out. As for wizards, Wand of Woh spec might be an option (with Teleport/Wormhole and Diamond Skin/Sleek Shell); almost every other wizard spec is kind of useless (in particular Blizzard/Hydra Firebird's wizard is completely pointless for speed runs in groups). DH might actually be an option - although most stuff will be dead by the time the sentries start shooting, it helps to "clean up the rest". It's kind of the opposite of the jade WD: the jade WD can easily blow up big groups of mobs, whereas the DH is particularly useful in rifts with "bad density" and 2-3 mobs every now and then, when the jade WD feels somewhat lost. Most recently I've been thinking about taking on a second monk... could run a more support-oriented build, with Unity, Inna's set, and CS. Would mean you'd lose some SWK damage, but add significant buffs to the group overall. And four melee classes would just synergize extremely well (especially due to the fact that the three melee classes add better "always on" support to the group, as opposed to most ranged support buffs that need to be applied to mobs first or have high CDR, like Marked for Death or BBV).
Regarding the gold find discussion: here's a thread of someone getting 850m/hour. I've spent way too much time optimizing my GF gear and setup (same as in this post, just a bit higher DPS, but also 13k GF) - doing exactly what he did but quitting the game whenever I thought I had cleared most of the "good scarab spots" I got close to 1b in one hour (I think 970m, didn't record it). If you're lucky with the scarab spots in the Ruins of Corvus, have insane GF gear (I think you can go as high as 18k with perfect GF and a legacy Kymbo's Gold) you can get over 1b/h. Not really worth it though... I've used it once and stashed all my GF gear.
With regards to closing vs. full clearing, if you want to optimize for maximum xp then you clear if you're on a high density map, close otherwise. If you're by the next level, you can pop in and check map layout and instantly leave if it's not a known good one. Generally a 'good' one is any large open area where you can split farm.
Not sure if I can sit still for 2 hours.
XP rings/gem don't provide that much on T6 because they're additive. Using hoarder/custerians/gf amy/goldskin will provide more.
Yup, this is something you also have to take into consideration. And while this is a different topic, organized t6 split bounty farming can actually provide just as much xp if done right (you can 'stagger-port' to each other to complete bounties so you get xp for all of them), but it requires a lot of coordination.
I respectfully disagree. Pull monk is actually a hindrance because it means less dps while 1 player is focused on pulling. Elites in 4 mans now go down in 2-3 seconds anyway. Jade also useless because you don't have time to dot, wait for spread, group, AND boom. You really need burst & mobility.
Boon/custerian/goldskin/gf ammy/sun keeper (if possible) in speed t6, especially if you're running so fast you never really pick up the gold, probably won't give more 500m/hour. This is just my estimation though. Maybe if you can work in avarice band to pick up the gold quicker while moving past mobs. It's something I plan to explore for sure.
Thanks for the feedback.
1) I'm definitely going to be looking at monk soon. Pretty excited to follow up on a lower-end speed farm build I made months ago, which now has a lot more potential with the new buffs to the game. I agree this is mandatory spot. 4x monks optimized for move speed might actually be the fastest, though Raekors with Chilaniks and Condemn sader would be pretty close I think.
2) May want to look at 'version 1.0' of my DotNado barb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGAD6bMqNI4
3) Condemn will definitely beat stampede for speed t6 easy because you don't have to stop, though with proper stutterstepping stampede is pretty good still.
4) Definitely not on Jade, ramp up too long. I'd say no to DH as well unless they're running a TON of CDR or 4.15 calamity, ramp up too long. Wiz I wouldn't discount. It wasn't always the case in the video I posted, but over half the time I'm ahead of the group (probably because it's not optimized) and I just tag & teleport while someone behind me 'cleans up', though with Furnace blizz ticks most trash dies by the time I'm across to the other side of the screen. You also don't necessarily need 4 different classes.
5) As for the gold thing, it's mainly for fun, and to check longer term implications for integrating boon and possibly avarice band into speed t6 builds.
Video please.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
After playing some more on my jade, I agree that they do not belong because tho they are amazing for turning a slow run into a ~7minuit one, they are still kinda hardcapped from needing atleast two clicks to kill a whole pack which means the platue in usefulness before the really ridiculous clear times.
Now that I think about it more, you probably also want everyone wearing wreath of lightning too. The real limit for speed farm is how fast your slowest partymember can move and how many clicks it takes to kill a screen.
EDIT: pick up radius is essential to keeping up your movespeed buffs/custerian procs. So your characters probably want atleast 10 (maybe even 20) so avarice band might be required if the rest of the gear doesnt have it
Why do people assume that Custerian Wristguards increase their XP per hour when speed rifting?
If you play *solo*, and you run full gold find gear, and you run Ruins of Corvus, you can get up to 1b gold/hour (we established this earlier in this thread). That's 1b XP/hour. However, solo in Ruins of Corvus with full gold find gear you will not get 7b XP/hour. Actually, you'll probably not even get 5b XP/hour, way less than that! (In the previous thread I linked the guy said he made 2b XP/hour).
In a group, you will (on average) get every fourth killing blow which means significantly less gold. Also, in rift you don't have the little scarabs from Ruins of Corvus, which further lessens your gold income. And of course you can't run full gold find gear; who wants to sacrifice Taskers for Goldskin or Etrayu for Raven's Wing? A Witching Hour for Goldwrap? Who has goldfind as every secondary? No one. So instead of 13k GF (GF gear) you will rather have something like 5k GF. Let's be very very optimistic and say you make 200m gold/hour with Boon of the Hoarder in a T6 group. That is 200m XP, or about 3% increase of the XP gained in this video.
For Boon of the Hoarder, however, you sacrifice a legendary gem, which will give you probably something between 20 and 30% more damage. If all four people in a T6 group decrease their DPS by ~25%, you will notice it. Even if it's facerolling, 25% less damage means 25% less kill speed. All that for some 3% more XP? Not really, c'mon.
Now, I often hear people saying "I always run on T6 with Boon of the Hoarder and we're still super fast". Yes of course you're super fast, but if you're the only one wearing Boon of the Hoarder it means you're the one who's slacking. Essentially, 3 of your friends are helping you to farm gold. Instead, you could significantly boost your DPS by equipping a reasonable legendary gem, contribute as much as you can, and not wear this fun item. Keep it for solo farming, when you're not dragging a group down.
Sorry for the rant, but this really grinds my gears. If someone thinks there's a big mistake in my argument please feel free to point it out. Until then:
TL;DR: Do not equip Boon of the Hoarder or any GF gear if you want to make a serious effort for T6 speed rifting/paragon farming in groups.
To go from slow to moderate speed in t6 you need to ramp up your damage i agree, but talking optimized groups that regularly do GR40+, trust me, the damage wont be an issue. I spend way more time getting to mobs in t6 than actually killing them now-days so boon and wristguards are absolutely worth it
1) There is a finite damage threshold for all mob types in T6, which can be surpassed through a combination of gear, build, paragon points, and legendary gems. Basically, once you get a certain amount of damage output where you 'overkill' trash mobs (doing more damage than necessary to reduce them to 0 hp), any additional damage is wasted, and reducing elite pack kill time from 5 seconds down to 3 seconds doesn't mean much. These speed farm builds are predicated on this fact.
2) The second limit to xp/hr is mobility, however this can actually be a hindrance if you're moving TOO fast. Boon gem is nice for the 30% move speed buff (assuming you have a good pickup radius), and if you can add in wreath of lightning for another 25%, you're already sitting at 25 (paragon) + 25 + 30 = 80% move speed. Once you add in a sprint-like ability between packs of enemies, any additional movement speed (such as warzechian armguards) will make you move SO fast that you'll lose track of where you're going and actually hit dead ends, have to backtrack, etc - unless you're really good at navigating while flying across the screen. Not to mention class skills/passives/abilities which will naturally boost you to ridiculous move speeds. Monks have a mantra passive + passive that will add another 20% total above the move speed cap, so that's already 100% extra move speed for monks without any other skills like the fast tempest rush, annihilation, etc. Saders can easily break 200% when riding the pony, etc.
3) The third limit to xp/hr is ... xp/mob. In a way, this can be increased (once damage threshold is met) via avarice band (mandatory because of mobility, you have to have the pickup radius), any amulet with gold find as a secondary, custerian wristguards, and if possible goldskin. To a lesser extent you can also roll +xp per monster kill and go for xp gear, assuming once again the damage threshold is met. Weapon only if you can swing it - such as Sun Keeper for firebirds wiz, which works great in T6 anyway. However, you are right that you won't be killing everything, so you're looking at maybe (at the high end), ~500m xp/hr extra. Still, over the long term that's quite a bit.
Just some things to consider.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
Welcome to endgame - for every game in existence.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
The only content update Diablo 3 has gotten in recent memory is RoS (adventure mode and rifts). Before that, it was Ubers. That's two content updates (content meaning actual content, not difficulty levels).
D3 has come a very long way since release, people conveniently ignore that. The same people who claim D2 was soooo awesome when it had 1 expansion, much less frequent patching/content/feature updates, and what all sorts of messed up by comparison.
IMO, people expect to spend $50 and keep getting 'new content' for life, without giving anything in return (more $). That's not how a business works.
By 'people' you mean yourself, and that's fine. Thank you for the detailed explanation of how I should make my videos. I've been doing it wrong all along!
PS. T6 rifts are generally pretty dense now. Even the 'empty' rifts are still pretty decent for xp/hr. If you manage to hit 7b like I did in my video, no matter how bad the rift is you'll never drop down to 2.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web