because blizzards game is so successful they know people will try to make their own profits from their game? why does this even matter to them? what does BOA even achieve, you're putting in artificial hours just to get that said item instead of being able to trade for it, you know what diablo was all about lol. what are your guys thoughts on BOA? will they ever revert? I've stopped playing ever since they added this in, now i just complain about it.
This poor horse..... or goo. It has been beat so hard by this topic that it is no longer an equine.
I said so many times that BoA is an over reaction from Blizzard to shut down third party sites and scammers and there should be some sorta of limited trading between friends and clan but in the end i got a better gaming experience because drop rates are balanced around playing the game and not lurking on forum or spamming in trade chat.
What we had with the AH was a terrible experience because drop rates were balanced around free trading and we spent hours (if not days) to find something remotely usefull, probably to sell and grab another item. If you were lucky, you were set forever, you jumped to MP10 and you where done with the game. If you were smart, you flipped the crap out of the AH and you didn't even need to play the game. If you started playing from release, you gained enough gold to buy gear in an inflated economy and you were in MP10. If you had more money than common sense, you bought gold and you were done.
I think Blizzard's stance is pretty clear, they are removing Trading Forums from their board too, so don't hold your breath for some sorta of 180° (AGAIN).
Because it gets people to play the game longer which is in both the consumer and blizzards best interests.
Consumer: Gets more playtime out of the game because it takes longer to get "BiS" gear. Once you have gotten BIS gear what's the point of continuing to play? Your only other option is to make a new class but then what happens when you've got all 6 classes in BIS gear for multiple builds? With AH and trading this happened very quickly and now it's much slower
Blizz: People are spending more time on the game and are therefore more likely to buy expansions. If people played for 3 weeks and then quit for the next 3 years until the next expansion, less people would likely buy it, in addition to having to spend more money on advertisement to reach a bigger audience.
My opinion: I think once seasons are released, they should make everything BoA on seasonal characters and unrestricted on non-seasonal characters. But still no auction house, manual trading between players only. Could see also still banning gold trade to keep real world trading market somewhat under control, but you'll never kill it completely.
I think the new system (no trading) is bad for the game:
- You can't try out a new build without the right items. In the past I would go on AH and try some builds (even if I would do it on mp5 or so, just to try out skill combinations with gear, think WW or CM wiz where the amounts of crit were same for MP1 or MP10 to make the build work). This would make me play longer and have more fun.
- If we got bored, we did competitions in our "clan", like "build an MP10 set from ah, including gems, in 24 hours" or stuff. I really miss that kinda joking around now. (again more play time)
- The smart loot made it so that you should only play 1 class, cause you wouldn't have any good gear for other classes (by now droprates are so silly people even throw away set items in public games). IMO smart drops made it so that "everything" is good. So again less replayability. In the past you could farm for gold at least to get that perfect rolled item, now you get forgotten souls. Again less play time.
- In current times, 1 of the best ways to promote a game, is by having people stream it. Ever since you can not trade anymore, nobody really checks out D3 streams. Total viewer count for D3 now is way lower than it ever was for only the top stream in vanilla. People want to get good items, set builds, gearchecks, ... BOA killed "the community".
- Why should there be BOA? In the current state, there is no way of competition (greater rifts will be coming, but mainly seasons will count with a reset every so much time).
For me (3000+ hours play time, way more game time cause of AH) BOA made the game less fun. Grinding for hours to see a green beam, ID'ing it, seeing 3 red numbers and salvage it, while my friend could have used it, or i could have gotten gold for a real upgrade.
And all this because of people complaining about a game without ranking/competition being pay to win.
Sorry for my rant, and I must confirm, having my first wand of woh drop today felt good. Not sure if that makes up for the sad feeling about all the rest.
Gear already drops out the ass. Yes, BoA is not the solution, and trading would be a good thing to bring back. But removing BoA is not a good solution.
It fully fleshes out the experience of our vaunted adventurer reaping and wielding his spoils of war. Trading, no matter what the format, betrays this sense of spontaneity and adventure by allowing the player to "shop" for items at his/her leisure. No matter what the vehichle, trading under any guise is shopping.
The feeling of accomplishment one gets when finding that White Whale item they've been after FAR outweighs the feeling of trading for said item. People are robbing themselves of a great ARPG experience when they bend to stubbornness and refuse to understand the dynamic that BoA adds to this game.
People here get tunnel vision and they feel inept for not being able to run the 'flavor of the month' build for their class due to a lack of pieces. The skill in D3 comes in when you make the best out of what you DO find, an aspect all but lost to the many whiners who only see one way of playing an ARPG.
It fully fleshes out the experience of our vaunted adventurer reaping and wielding his spoils of war. Trading, no matter what the format, betrays this sense of spontaneity and adventure by allowing the player to "shop" for items at his/her leisure. No matter what the vehichle, trading under any guise is shopping.
The feeling of accomplishment one gets when finding that White Whale item they've been after FAR outweighs the feeling of trading for said item. People are robbing themselves of a great ARPG experience when they bend to stubbornness and refuse to understand the dynamic that BoA adds to this game.
People here get tunnel vision and they feel inept for not being able to run the 'flavor of the month' build for their class due to a lack of pieces. The skill in D3 comes in when you make the best out of what you DO find, an aspect all but lost to the many whiners who only see one way of playing an ARPG.
I rarely post on these forums but after reading this I just had to.
This ''feeling of accomplishment" one gets when finding that White Whale item they've been after does not outweigh the feeling of trading for said item if it simply does not drop. There is nothing worse for quality of life then grinding for an item, month, after month, after month, without getting it. To make matters worse, a year from now the legendary pool will be so incredibly diluted that finding a specific legendary item will be even harder than it is now.
On top of that, there is fuck all skill in playing with the items you find. Every numbnut can find an item with a special affix and then change his skills accordingly. What makes things even worse for me, is that blizzard, or the RNG in Diablo 3 is forcing me to play with a certain skill set, dependant on the items which I find. This is complete and utter bullshit. I want to play what >I< want to play. I want to grab a piece of paper, look through all the legendary items, and find a cool build that might or might not work, and try it out. Which is simply impossible and totally destroys the creativity one can express in a videogame like Diablo 3.
Which brings me to the final point. Just because you like BoA does not mean you get the generalize the people that do not agree with you into mindless zombies that only have enough intelligence to run with the flavor of the month...
Generalization is exactly what's wrong with Diablo 3 at current.
Diablo 3 chose to remove stats from the game because ''generally'' in Diablo 2 people would skill the same stats anyways.
While generally that may have been true, what's also true is that by removing stats from the game a big group of people that did not belong to ''generally'' got robbed off their creativity to build different and interesting characters.
So even though removing stats might've looked like a good solution. It actually isn't. If stats would still be in game, sure, a lot of people would stat the same way, but you'd still allow the expert players or the creative players to play around, thereby satisfying both groups. By chosing one side the game has been ruined for the other. Therefor the solution to BoA would be one that satisfies both the people that like and dislike BoA. Not a solution that choses sides.
It fully fleshes out the experience of our vaunted adventurer reaping and wielding his spoils of war. Trading, no matter what the format, betrays this sense of spontaneity and adventure by allowing the player to "shop" for items at his/her leisure. No matter what the vehichle, trading under any guise is shopping.
The feeling of accomplishment one gets when finding that White Whale item they've been after FAR outweighs the feeling of trading for said item. People are robbing themselves of a great ARPG experience when they bend to stubbornness and refuse to understand the dynamic that BoA adds to this game.
People here get tunnel vision and they feel inept for not being able to run the 'flavor of the month' build for their class due to a lack of pieces. The skill in D3 comes in when you make the best out of what you DO find, an aspect all but lost to the many whiners who only see one way of playing an ARPG.
Which brings me to the final point. Just because you like BoA does not mean you get the generalize the people that do not agree with you into mindless zombies that only have enough intelligence to run with the flavor of the month...
I never said any such thing. I never even suggested such a thing. Calm down. You sound angry. This should be an exchange of ideas and opinion, not a fight.
RNG in Diablo 3 is forcing me to play with a certain skill set
Why? There's a thousand and one ways to utilize these items. You just need the willingness to make what you have work for you, which all too often, players lack the vision or patience to do so.
Embrace the game for what it is and cease leaning on what it isn't, and I assure you that you'll find more enjoyment from it.
You speak of a lack of creativity in D3, but then wholly dismiss my point about how BoA encourages creativity by not allowing players to casually cherry pick any item they want, which is the essence of trading in it's purest form.
I rarely post on these forums but after reading this I just had to.
"Rarely"? That was your first post. Very limited scope to your opinion, angst ridden and stubborn as shit IMO. Loosen up, and I hope 2.1 provides you with more incentive to engage and immerse yourself into what IMO has become a very deep and entertaining ARPG title.
Boa might be the single most positive change Diablo 3 have gotten, Blizzard just need to get rid of the last gold selling methods in the game then we are rid of all these pesky bots, a few other changes that will make me hooked on Diablo 3 for years to come is : A fun pvp mode and more effective builds to play with at endgame :-)
Ps: Oh noes we have to actually play the game now to get further in this game, what a downer!
Lies, we're all botting!
But really, BOA has its drawbacks but overall it's better than playing a shopping simulator.
People are robbing themselves of a great ARPG experience when they bend to stubbornness and refuse to understand the dynamic that BoA adds to this game.
The skill in D3 comes in when you make the best out of what you DO find, an aspect all but lost to the many whiners who only see one way of playing an ARPG.
I think that's the main difference. I never played D1 or D2, and I "spacebar" every single line of story in D3. For me, this is not ARPG, it's pure hack and slash! And I want to hack as hard as possible. And then I realize i have to farm for long time to be able to do so. True, there are dynamics that BoA adds, but I couldn't care less.
I bought this game cause I could smash them monsters (or whatever they are according to the storyline) hard and fast, not anymore.
So basically, they took the game that I bought and enjoyed (with many other people) and turned it into something a completely different group (that often downvoted the game) will like.
Quote fromUnseeneel Blizzard just need to get rid of the last gold selling methods in the game then we are rid of all these pesky bots
You really believe that? With real competition being added to the game and no way to get your items other than "playing", I bet many people will start botting. Chance of being banned? Meh, just buy the game again when next season starts, you wont loose anything. Just my 2 cents.
This should be an exchange of ideas and opinion, not a fight.
I rarely post on these forums but after reading this I just had to.
"Rarely"? That was your first post. Very limited scope to your opinion, angst ridden and stubborn as shit IMO. Loosen up, and I hope 2.1 provides you with more incentive to engage and immerse yourself into what IMO has become a very deep and entertaining ARPG title.
Nice exchanging of ideas. Maybe start practicing what you preach.
This should be an exchange of ideas and opinion, not a fight.
I rarely post on these forums but after reading this I just had to.
"Rarely"? That was your first post. Very limited scope to your opinion, angst ridden and stubborn as shit IMO. Loosen up, and I hope 2.1 provides you with more incentive to engage and immerse yourself into what IMO has become a very deep and entertaining ARPG title.
Nice exchanging of ideas. Maybe start practicing what you preach.
My comment wasn't meant to be a personal insult. Only meant to indicate to you that your attitude toward the game seems foul, and perhaps you're reacting with pure emotion. Saying your post was "angst ridden and stubborn" shouldn't be received by you as aggressive or an attack in any way. Only that if you wish to engage in an honest conversation about D3, try to remain objective, open-minded and understanding that creating a game that appeals to everyone is logistically impossible.
Stop personally attacking each other. Any further posts (or content in posts) that are not directly related to the topics will be removed. Take your personal matters to PMs if you like, but stop this in here right now.
I'm stopping the quotes because this forum is just not listening to me. Constantly mucks it all up.
First the esssence of trading. According to you the essence of trading in it's purest form is allowing players to casually cherry pick any item they want. Well, that would be kinda awesome but somehow I don't see people trading an apple for a diamond. Or BOJ Anglers for Nat boots. Your total neglect for value makes your standpoint wobbly IMO......
And IMO.... BoA does not encourage creativity. It LIMITS creativity. BoA in it's ESSENCE is a limitation. It LIMITS items to a certain ACCOUNT. It's like giving a kid half a box of lego. Sure, you can be creative with what you have, and make nice things, no denying that. But with the entire box of lego you can do SO MUCH MORE.
So no, I'm not saying that there is NO creativity in Diablo 3. I said BoA destroys creativity. I'm saying BoA LIMITS it. And the removal of stats LIMITS it.Which is perhaps fine for some people, but for me it's very dissapointing.
Which brings me to my final point, if you want to play Diablo 3 in that environment, fine. If you want to protect that environment, fine. Doesn't mean I have to like it, or just ''accept it'' for what it is. Diablo 3 is a good game, but not a great game. While you are satisfied with what there is, I like to shoot for the stars and make something good even better. I totally agree that AH or RMAH is not an option. But Kadala and BoA imo are a very poorly designed solution to the problem.
Stop personally attacking each other. Any further posts (or content in posts) that are not directly related to the topics will be removed. Take your personal matters to PMs if you like, but stop this in here right now.
I'm not sure what "personal attack" means after reading your suggestion?
I'm stopping the quotes because this forum is just not listening to me. Constantly mucks it all up.
This forum software sucks, hard. By far the most bug-ridden, piece of shit headache I've ever had to deal with on the net.
BTW: Sorry if you think I was being a bit aggressive, I didn't mean to take a tone with you. This BoA subject gets ugly, fast, as people have very hard-line opinions about the subject. Until only a few months ago, I was having a hard time accepting BoA in place of trades.
I said so many times that BoA is an over reaction from Blizzard to shut down third party sites and scammers and there should be some sorta of limited trading between friends and clan but in the end i got a better gaming experience because drop rates are balanced around playing the game and not lurking on forum or spamming in trade chat.
What we had with the AH was a terrible experience because drop rates were balanced around free trading and we spent hours (if not days) to find something remotely usefull, probably to sell and grab another item. If you were lucky, you were set forever, you jumped to MP10 and you where done with the game. If you were smart, you flipped the crap out of the AH and you didn't even need to play the game. If you started playing from release, you gained enough gold to buy gear in an inflated economy and you were in MP10. If you had more money than common sense, you bought gold and you were done.
I think Blizzard's stance is pretty clear, they are removing Trading Forums from their board too, so don't hold your breath for some sorta of 180° (AGAIN).
Consumer: Gets more playtime out of the game because it takes longer to get "BiS" gear. Once you have gotten BIS gear what's the point of continuing to play? Your only other option is to make a new class but then what happens when you've got all 6 classes in BIS gear for multiple builds? With AH and trading this happened very quickly and now it's much slower
Blizz: People are spending more time on the game and are therefore more likely to buy expansions. If people played for 3 weeks and then quit for the next 3 years until the next expansion, less people would likely buy it, in addition to having to spend more money on advertisement to reach a bigger audience.
My opinion: I think once seasons are released, they should make everything BoA on seasonal characters and unrestricted on non-seasonal characters. But still no auction house, manual trading between players only. Could see also still banning gold trade to keep real world trading market somewhat under control, but you'll never kill it completely.
Better overzealous anti-botting than none at all.
- You can't try out a new build without the right items. In the past I would go on AH and try some builds (even if I would do it on mp5 or so, just to try out skill combinations with gear, think WW or CM wiz where the amounts of crit were same for MP1 or MP10 to make the build work). This would make me play longer and have more fun.
- If we got bored, we did competitions in our "clan", like "build an MP10 set from ah, including gems, in 24 hours" or stuff. I really miss that kinda joking around now. (again more play time)
- The smart loot made it so that you should only play 1 class, cause you wouldn't have any good gear for other classes (by now droprates are so silly people even throw away set items in public games). IMO smart drops made it so that "everything" is good. So again less replayability. In the past you could farm for gold at least to get that perfect rolled item, now you get forgotten souls. Again less play time.
- In current times, 1 of the best ways to promote a game, is by having people stream it. Ever since you can not trade anymore, nobody really checks out D3 streams. Total viewer count for D3 now is way lower than it ever was for only the top stream in vanilla. People want to get good items, set builds, gearchecks, ... BOA killed "the community".
- Why should there be BOA? In the current state, there is no way of competition (greater rifts will be coming, but mainly seasons will count with a reset every so much time).
For me (3000+ hours play time, way more game time cause of AH) BOA made the game less fun. Grinding for hours to see a green beam, ID'ing it, seeing 3 red numbers and salvage it, while my friend could have used it, or i could have gotten gold for a real upgrade.
And all this because of people complaining about a game without ranking/competition being pay to win.
Sorry for my rant, and I must confirm, having my first wand of woh drop today felt good. Not sure if that makes up for the sad feeling about all the rest.
It fully fleshes out the experience of our vaunted adventurer reaping and wielding his spoils of war. Trading, no matter what the format, betrays this sense of spontaneity and adventure by allowing the player to "shop" for items at his/her leisure. No matter what the vehichle, trading under any guise is shopping.
The feeling of accomplishment one gets when finding that White Whale item they've been after FAR outweighs the feeling of trading for said item. People are robbing themselves of a great ARPG experience when they bend to stubbornness and refuse to understand the dynamic that BoA adds to this game.
People here get tunnel vision and they feel inept for not being able to run the 'flavor of the month' build for their class due to a lack of pieces. The skill in D3 comes in when you make the best out of what you DO find, an aspect all but lost to the many whiners who only see one way of playing an ARPG.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
This ''feeling of accomplishment" one gets when finding that White Whale item they've been after does not outweigh the feeling of trading for said item if it simply does not drop. There is nothing worse for quality of life then grinding for an item, month, after month, after month, without getting it. To make matters worse, a year from now the legendary pool will be so incredibly diluted that finding a specific legendary item will be even harder than it is now.
On top of that, there is fuck all skill in playing with the items you find. Every numbnut can find an item with a special affix and then change his skills accordingly. What makes things even worse for me, is that blizzard, or the RNG in Diablo 3 is forcing me to play with a certain skill set, dependant on the items which I find. This is complete and utter bullshit. I want to play what >I< want to play. I want to grab a piece of paper, look through all the legendary items, and find a cool build that might or might not work, and try it out. Which is simply impossible and totally destroys the creativity one can express in a videogame like Diablo 3.
Which brings me to the final point. Just because you like BoA does not mean you get the generalize the people that do not agree with you into mindless zombies that only have enough intelligence to run with the flavor of the month...
Generalization is exactly what's wrong with Diablo 3 at current.
Diablo 3 chose to remove stats from the game because ''generally'' in Diablo 2 people would skill the same stats anyways.
While generally that may have been true, what's also true is that by removing stats from the game a big group of people that did not belong to ''generally'' got robbed off their creativity to build different and interesting characters.
So even though removing stats might've looked like a good solution. It actually isn't. If stats would still be in game, sure, a lot of people would stat the same way, but you'd still allow the expert players or the creative players to play around, thereby satisfying both groups. By chosing one side the game has been ruined for the other. Therefor the solution to BoA would be one that satisfies both the people that like and dislike BoA. Not a solution that choses sides.
Why? There's a thousand and one ways to utilize these items. You just need the willingness to make what you have work for you, which all too often, players lack the vision or patience to do so.
Embrace the game for what it is and cease leaning on what it isn't, and I assure you that you'll find more enjoyment from it.
You speak of a lack of creativity in D3, but then wholly dismiss my point about how BoA encourages creativity by not allowing players to casually cherry pick any item they want, which is the essence of trading in it's purest form.
"Rarely"? That was your first post. Very limited scope to your opinion, angst ridden and stubborn as shit IMO. Loosen up, and I hope 2.1 provides you with more incentive to engage and immerse yourself into what IMO has become a very deep and entertaining ARPG title.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
But really, BOA has its drawbacks but overall it's better than playing a shopping simulator.
I bought this game cause I could smash them monsters (or whatever they are according to the storyline) hard and fast, not anymore.
So basically, they took the game that I bought and enjoyed (with many other people) and turned it into something a completely different group (that often downvoted the game) will like.
You really believe that? With real competition being added to the game and no way to get your items other than "playing", I bet many people will start botting. Chance of being banned? Meh, just buy the game again when next season starts, you wont loose anything. Just my 2 cents.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Stop personally attacking each other. Any further posts (or content in posts) that are not directly related to the topics will be removed. Take your personal matters to PMs if you like, but stop this in here right now.
First the esssence of trading. According to you the essence of trading in it's purest form is allowing players to casually cherry pick any item they want. Well, that would be kinda awesome but somehow I don't see people trading an apple for a diamond. Or BOJ Anglers for Nat boots. Your total neglect for value makes your standpoint wobbly IMO......
And IMO.... BoA does not encourage creativity. It LIMITS creativity. BoA in it's ESSENCE is a limitation. It LIMITS items to a certain ACCOUNT. It's like giving a kid half a box of lego. Sure, you can be creative with what you have, and make nice things, no denying that. But with the entire box of lego you can do SO MUCH MORE.
So no, I'm not saying that there is NO creativity in Diablo 3. I said BoA destroys creativity. I'm saying BoA LIMITS it. And the removal of stats LIMITS it.Which is perhaps fine for some people, but for me it's very dissapointing.
Which brings me to my final point, if you want to play Diablo 3 in that environment, fine. If you want to protect that environment, fine. Doesn't mean I have to like it, or just ''accept it'' for what it is. Diablo 3 is a good game, but not a great game. While you are satisfied with what there is, I like to shoot for the stars and make something good even better. I totally agree that AH or RMAH is not an option. But Kadala and BoA imo are a very poorly designed solution to the problem.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
BTW: Sorry if you think I was being a bit aggressive, I didn't mean to take a tone with you. This BoA subject gets ugly, fast, as people have very hard-line opinions about the subject. Until only a few months ago, I was having a hard time accepting BoA in place of trades.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan