Junger Theory Bounty Farming Part 2/3 - 25x A1 T4 Caches
Today I continue the mini-series by opening 25x A1 T4 caches, all solo farmed. I talk about the 'unavoidable' legendaries I found along the way, get 4 legendaries from bags (no rings), and discuss more tinfoil shenanigans. My goal is not to prove this method one way or another - I simply don't (and won't) have a large enough sample size - but rather to see if it has any merit. Enjoy!
Junger Theory Bounty Farming Part 2/3 - 25x A1 T4 Caches
Today I continue the mini-series by opening 25x A1 T4 caches, all solo farmed. I talk about the 'unavoidable' legendaries I found along the way, get 4 legendaries from bags (no rings), and discuss more tinfoil shenanigans. My goal is not to prove this method one way or another - I simply don't (and won't) have a large enough sample size - but rather to see if it has any merit. Enjoy!
You seem very determined which I respect but I still think you'd be better off channeling your time into something better ( school work ) or if you are an adult, work or day trading or sports ? or just take the game for what it is ?.
All the threads about RORG highlight some possible issues around the design and implementation of RNG. Regardless, it will be impossible to determine how Blizzard have implemented the caches / drops / RNG unless you have a massive sample size.
If however, you do try to do this, I would seriously urge you put your energy into something more worthwhile.
Remember, this is only a game so unravelling how it works is pointless especially given there is a patch looming on the horizon.
Junger Theory Bounty Farming Part 2/3 - 25x A1 T4 Caches
Today I continue the mini-series by opening 25x A1 T4 caches, all solo farmed. I talk about the 'unavoidable' legendaries I found along the way, get 4 legendaries from bags (no rings), and discuss more tinfoil shenanigans. My goal is not to prove this method one way or another - I simply don't (and won't) have a large enough sample size - but rather to see if it has any merit. Enjoy!
You seem very determined which I respect but I still think you'd be better off channeling your time into something better ( school work ) or if you are an adult, work or day trading or sports ? or just take the game for what it is ?.
All the threads about RORG highlight some possible issues around the design and implementation of RNG. Regardless, it will be impossible to determine how Blizzard have implemented the caches / drops / RNG unless you have a massive sample size.
If however, you do try to do this, I would seriously urge you put your energy into something more worthwhile.
Remember, this is only a game so unravelling how it works is pointless especially given there is a patch looming on the horizon.
Junger Theory Bounty Farming Part 2/3 - 25x A1 T4 Caches
Today I continue the mini-series by opening 25x A1 T4 caches, all solo farmed. I talk about the 'unavoidable' legendaries I found along the way, get 4 legendaries from bags (no rings), and discuss more tinfoil shenanigans. My goal is not to prove this method one way or another - I simply don't (and won't) have a large enough sample size - but rather to see if it has any merit. Enjoy!
You seem very determined which I respect but I still think you'd be better off channeling your time into something better ( school work ) or if you are an adult, work or day trading or sports ? or just take the game for what it is ?.
All the threads about RORG highlight some possible issues around the design and implementation of RNG. Regardless, it will be impossible to determine how Blizzard have implemented the caches / drops / RNG unless you have a massive sample size.
If however, you do try to do this, I would seriously urge you put your energy into something more worthwhile.
Remember, this is only a game so unravelling how it works is pointless especially given there is a patch looming on the horizon.
After all this talk about how the loot rolls and when, is it really appropriate to still talk about a juger "theory"? Hasn't it been confirmed that cache legendaries are outside the pitty timer?
(not to mention that is is certainly not a "theory" in any scientific sense)
After all this talk about how the loot rolls and when, is it really appropriate to still talk about a juger "theory"?
Junger himself doesn't call it a theory and mentions that it's a tinfoil hat thing many many many times in his own thread. It was only recently that a Diablo fan website (not us) called it "RoRG exploit", which I find hilarious to say the least. It has absolutely nothing to do with an "exploit", so it was quite obvious that this was just a news item to generate clicks. Didn't even mention the source thread on B.Net in the news, which I found really odd.
We gathered 35 caches yesterday, opening and killing absolutely everything on our way (every chest, every goblin, every elite, every shrine). Only opened 15 caches - 2 RoRGs and one pair of bracers (keeping the other 20 caches to copy them on the PTR every day and do some testing regarding the pre-rolled loot theory). A clan mate opened all 35 caches and got 9 cache legendaries (2 RoRGs). All done without Junger rules. Does it prove that this is all bullshit? Nope, too small of a sample size. What it proves is that it's all freaking RNG.
The Junger rules are only good for one thing: your own motivation. If you feel that you have a better chance at it when going by these rules, it will keep your motivation up and help you to do more bounties. That's fine. You can discuss this all the way you want... but the whole thing feels like discussing which team plays the most attractive football or which religion is better. There's almost no way to prove (or disprove) this, due to the large RNG factor, and thus no one will ever completely convince the other side. But I don't think they don't need to ;-)
Junger Theory Bounty Farming Part 2/3 - 25x A1 T4 Caches
Today I continue the mini-series by opening 25x A1 T4 caches, all solo farmed. I talk about the 'unavoidable' legendaries I found along the way, get 4 legendaries from bags (no rings), and discuss more tinfoil shenanigans. My goal is not to prove this method one way or another - I simply don't (and won't) have a large enough sample size - but rather to see if it has any merit. Enjoy!
You seem very determined which I respect but I still think you'd be better off channeling your time into something better ( school work ) or if you are an adult, work or day trading or sports ? or just take the game for what it is ?.
All the threads about RORG highlight some possible issues around the design and implementation of RNG. Regardless, it will be impossible to determine how Blizzard have implemented the caches / drops / RNG unless you have a massive sample size.
If however, you do try to do this, I would seriously urge you put your energy into something more worthwhile.
Remember, this is only a game so unravelling how it works is pointless especially given there is a patch looming on the horizon.
Please do not let this consume you.
LOL! never read something so inadequate here, i think. i don't think YOU should spend your time in forums. why don't you go do something valuable with your time, instead of trying to manage how OTHER people spend their time?
really, that's hilarious. get a life, dude.
Well, we could take it a step or two further. Quit telling people not to post on forums ( ina forum post I'll point out) and maybe we sould all quit wasting our time playing video games?
Normal. Boring split bounties on normal. Want to spend as little time as possible, and I've seen lots of posts of people who did 100 caches on some higher Torment level to figure out for me personally it's not worth the additional effort. Plus, with my Danetta DH it's just fastest to do them on Normal since my shadows kill everything behind me.
I'm going to quote my Reddit post on why the Junger Method does not work.
For those of you unaware, the "Junger Method" is a method by which players can supposedly increase their chances of getting act-specific items from caches. This method relies on the legendary "pity" timer where the longer you go without getting a legendary drop, the more likely you are to get a legendary drop.
Here's the problem, though: The legendary pity timer doesn't slowly ramp up over time -- it kicks in and THEN starts ramping up. The original source for this blue post has been broken, but the blue quote is included at the bottom of this post.
In other words, you have to be fighting mobs for 4 to 6 hours without a legendary drop before your legendary chance starts increasing.
Proponents of the Junger Method will tell you, "I farmed 20 caches over 2 hours and got 2 rings using this method!" And I'll tell you, "I farmed 10 caches as fast as I could and got 3 rings, it's RNG."
Let's look at this logically: Blues state that you're intended to get a legendary roughly every 2 hours (pre-100% drop chance increase, fyi). Blues state that if you go double/triple this time without a drop, the bonus drop chance starts kicking in. That's where the 4-6 hour statistic comes from. Blues also state that 98-99% of players will never experience the bonus timer (again, this was before the 100% drop chance increase).
So, if the bonus drop chance doesn't kick in until you've gone 4-6 hours without a drop, then how is it possible for all of these Junger Method proponents to be correct? I've never seen a single one of these players mention going 4-6 hours without a drop -- instead, they simply say that they avoid breakables and chests for as long as they can. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it! Indeed, it is nearly impossible to farm caches for 4-6 hours without getting a legendary drop from the mobs that you are required to kill for certain bounties.
TL;DR: If you're using the Junger Method and not going 4-6 hours without a legendary drop, then you're not actually using the Junger Method. There have been zero confirmed cases of the Junger Method actually working since, well, no one ever goes 4-6 hours without a legendary drop anymore. The Junger Method is just another example of players trying to make sense of RNG.
The whole idea is that the longer you go without, the more likely you are to get legendaries, right? Well, how about all those blues and yellows dropping during the kill bounties? If the Junger Method actually worked, those blues and yellows would be legendaries instead.
I've already explained how most proponents of the Junger Method haven't even enabled the legendary bonus drop chance (since they haven't gone 4-6 hours in-combat), but have you ever considered that once the legendary bonus chance finally kicks in (if it ever does), that the blues and yellows you see dropping will start turning into legendaries. Indeed, it would be very difficulty to complete a full set of bounties without getting a legendary and resetting the timer.
In other words, let's say you take off your weapon and wear nothing but toughness gear and then go 4-6 hours through the world fighting but not killing things. Theoretically, this should trigger your legendary bonus chance, right? Well, what happens when you get a kill bounty? You'll be almost guaranteed to get a legendary drop before you get your cache, thus resetting your timer.
TL;DR; Even if you did enable the bonus drop chance, you wouldn't be able to go more than one set of bounties before a regular drop comes out as a legendary and resets your chance.
It is impossible for the Junger Method to be legitimate.
Final post. If you want to test the Junger Method, this is the only realistic way to do so:
If anyone is interested in actually testing the Junger Method, here's how to do it. Note that this is not the way that most people do this because, as I've already explained, the common "Junger Method" cannot possibly work due to the nature of the legendary bonus timer.
To test the Junger Method, do the following: Obtain a full set of toughness gear. This gear should have as few offensive affixes as possible. Indeed, you should enchant off the offensive affixes.
Next, go into the highest survivable torment level you can find (to increase the health pool of the mobs) and remove your weapons. Your goal here is to remove any chance of actually killing things. You want to fight them without dying and without killing. The reason is as I explained it earlier: If you're getting drops, you're eventually going to get a legendary drop before the timer kicks in.
With your toughness gear on, go through the world and fight random mobs. Do this for 6 hours. Do not kill anything, just fight them. Do not break anything, just fight. Do not open chests.
After 6 hours have passed, join a friend's game. Instruct this friend to complete a full set of act 1 bounties without opening any chests or breaking any objects (so that you don't receive any off-screen legendaries). Collect your cache and repeat.
This is literally the only way to actually use the Junger Method without risking drops. If you don't go the 6 hours in-combat, the timer doesn't kick in. If you're killing mobs, you're going to get a legendary drop after the timer kicks in. There's no other reliable way to do this.
Yes, this is going to be extremely boring. No, it's probably not going to work. What it will do, however, is prove whether or not the method actually works.
I'll say it again, unless you're doing this, you're not actually triggering the timer and, therefore, not actually using the Junger Method. This also means that the vast majority of you (if not 100%) have never actually used the Junger Method.
Normal. Boring split bounties on normal. Want to spend as little time as possible, and I've seen lots of posts of people who did 100 caches on some higher Torment level to figure out for me personally it's not worth the additional effort. Plus, with my Danetta DH it's just fastest to do them on Normal since my shadows kill everything behind me.
The argument for T6 - outside of a higher chance of drop legendary drop rates, especially if you can do the bounties in a reasonable amount of time, is the XP. It's comparable to T6 rifting, so you're not losing much. Normal bounties unfortunately give essentially 0 XP at higher paragon levels.
--
@Belloc - interesting suggestions, one I wouldn't do because of the time investment and it still wouldn't actually prove anything, as you would still have an element of RNG. Maybe someone with more time/patience will try it out. Thanks for sharing!
In this last part of the mini series I decide to open 25 more normal act 1 bags, as these are the easiest to farm. The result? No legendaries of any sort, but plenty found throughout. The conclusion? Nothing that would suggest Junger 'Rules' work. In this video I also talk about potential loot system mechanics and why they may be so difficult to accurately assess. Enjoy!
I have had legendaries drop while bounty farming , intentional or not , kill 150 xxxx , things like that , the other day I did 5 normal caches , 2 legendaries dropped even though I was doing the runs as fast as I could , yet still after opening only those 5 caches a RoRG popped out , so no way do I think this Junger theory does what they say it does .
The theory is testing what happens when someone is unlucky for a prolonged period of time (since drop rates adjust in that scenario).
Giving an anecdote about getting very lucky in a short period of time does nothing to support or dismiss leveraging no-leg-drop streaks.
That's not really what I was saying . What I'm saying is , how is it possible to kill so many mobs when bounty farming and not getting a single legendary drop which screws up the Junger theory .
From what I read further up , 4 - 6 hours standing around letting the mobs hit you for the pity timer to kick in just isn't feasible .
This is not about getting lucky in a short period of time , I'm always getting crappy drops running bounties .
The pity timer probably has not kicked in on live servers even once since 2.0.5. It was designed to avoid long streaks of multiple hours of ACTIVE playing (standing 4 hours in town does nothing) without a drop. That is virtually impossible. I call BS on anyone who wants to tell me that when doing 3 hours of normal bounties (even with Junger Rules) you don't get a single legendary drop. You have to kill stuff to complete the bounties...
Today I continue the mini-series by opening 25x A1 T4 caches, all solo farmed. I talk about the 'unavoidable' legendaries I found along the way, get 4 legendaries from bags (no rings), and discuss more tinfoil shenanigans. My goal is not to prove this method one way or another - I simply don't (and won't) have a large enough sample size - but rather to see if it has any merit. Enjoy!
http://youtu.be/cHtQdRH73UI
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
All the threads about RORG highlight some possible issues around the design and implementation of RNG. Regardless, it will be impossible to determine how Blizzard have implemented the caches / drops / RNG unless you have a massive sample size.
If however, you do try to do this, I would seriously urge you put your energy into something more worthwhile.
Remember, this is only a game so unravelling how it works is pointless especially given there is a patch looming on the horizon.
Please do not let this consume you.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
(not to mention that is is certainly not a "theory" in any scientific sense)
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Junger himself doesn't call it a theory and mentions that it's a tinfoil hat thing many many many times in his own thread. It was only recently that a Diablo fan website (not us) called it "RoRG exploit", which I find hilarious to say the least. It has absolutely nothing to do with an "exploit", so it was quite obvious that this was just a news item to generate clicks. Didn't even mention the source thread on B.Net in the news, which I found really odd.
We gathered 35 caches yesterday, opening and killing absolutely everything on our way (every chest, every goblin, every elite, every shrine). Only opened 15 caches - 2 RoRGs and one pair of bracers (keeping the other 20 caches to copy them on the PTR every day and do some testing regarding the pre-rolled loot theory). A clan mate opened all 35 caches and got 9 cache legendaries (2 RoRGs). All done without Junger rules. Does it prove that this is all bullshit? Nope, too small of a sample size. What it proves is that it's all freaking RNG.
The Junger rules are only good for one thing: your own motivation. If you feel that you have a better chance at it when going by these rules, it will keep your motivation up and help you to do more bounties. That's fine. You can discuss this all the way you want... but the whole thing feels like discussing which team plays the most attractive football or which religion is better. There's almost no way to prove (or disprove) this, due to the large RNG factor, and thus no one will ever completely convince the other side. But I don't think they don't need to ;-)
But I digress...
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
Normal. Boring split bounties on normal. Want to spend as little time as possible, and I've seen lots of posts of people who did 100 caches on some higher Torment level to figure out for me personally it's not worth the additional effort. Plus, with my Danetta DH it's just fastest to do them on Normal since my shadows kill everything behind me.
--
@Belloc - interesting suggestions, one I wouldn't do because of the time investment and it still wouldn't actually prove anything, as you would still have an element of RNG. Maybe someone with more time/patience will try it out. Thanks for sharing!
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
In this last part of the mini series I decide to open 25 more normal act 1 bags, as these are the easiest to farm. The result? No legendaries of any sort, but plenty found throughout. The conclusion? Nothing that would suggest Junger 'Rules' work. In this video I also talk about potential loot system mechanics and why they may be so difficult to accurately assess. Enjoy!
http://youtu.be/fHwsxdyw9zY
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
Giving an anecdote about getting very lucky in a short period of time does nothing to support or dismiss leveraging no-leg-drop streaks.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
Perhaps in the future you could eliminate 4 minutes of clicking for your videos. Don't be such a sensitive sally.
From what I read further up , 4 - 6 hours standing around letting the mobs hit you for the pity timer to kick in just isn't feasible .
This is not about getting lucky in a short period of time , I'm always getting crappy drops running bounties .
https://twitter.com/candlesan/status/489483854890418176