The problem with the unique resources the other classes have right now is that they are very limiting. Take the monks spirit for example. You must have some kind of resource generator or else you cannot do much. Forcing someone to have a resource generator puts them in this narrow rhythm of generator-generator-generator then spender-spender and back again. With mana you have the freedom to start off with a wide assortment of skills. The barbarian will always have to build his resource first before he can do anything.
This hurts the idea of diverse character types, a barbarian must stay in battle taking and dealing damage in order to function. A monk must fight in combinations, A wizard must be careful when he/she runs out of arcane power.
Many unique builds seem to work differently but they are too few in number. Mana allows your character to be more open ended in how he/she fights.
I really enjoyed putting all my points in Vitality because that was the most optimal thing to do and drinking mana potions nonstop in D2 I agree with this suggestion.
Mana was seriously flawed in Diablo 2. It dosen't have to be in D3. Balance can still happen, though. It's just more of an abstract question.
This hurts the idea of diverse character types, a barbarian must stay in battle taking and dealing damage in order to function. A monk must fight in combinations, A wizard must be careful when he/she runs out of arcane power.
Hurts diversity?
That's a really loose definition of diversity you've got there, bub.
The problem with the unique resources the other classes have right now is that they are very limiting. Take the monks spirit for example. You must have some kind of resource generator or else you cannot do much. Forcing someone to have a resource generator puts them in this narrow rhythm of generator-generator-generator then spender-spender and back again. With mana you have the freedom to start off with a wide assortment of skills. The barbarian will always have to build his resource first before he can do anything.
This hurts the idea of diverse character types, a barbarian must stay in battle taking and dealing damage in order to function. A monk must fight in combinations, A wizard must be careful when he/she runs out of arcane power.
Many unique builds seem to work differently but they are too few in number. Mana allows your character to be more open ended in how he/she fights.
Barb is my main and I usually enter a fight at full fury. Just depends on gear, passives, paragon, etc.
Apart from gameplay, I miss mana. I remember reading the Diablo 1 manual in which they tried to explain how magic works in sanctuary. Now that they have added a gazillion other sources for magic, it doesn't make sense lore-wise. That's too bad.
The problem with the unique resources the other classes have right now is that they are very limiting. Take the monks spirit for example. You must have some kind of resource generator or else you cannot do much. Forcing someone to have a resource generator puts them in this narrow rhythm of generator-generator-generator then spender-spender and back again. With mana you have the freedom to start off with a wide assortment of skills. The barbarian will always have to build his resource first before he can do anything.
This hurts the idea of diverse character types, a barbarian must stay in battle taking and dealing damage in order to function. A monk must fight in combinations, A wizard must be careful when he/she runs out of arcane power.
Many unique builds seem to work differently but they are too few in number. Mana allows your character to be more open ended in how he/she fights.
I play a monk. I don't use a spirit generator. I wreck stuff... This post seems rather uninformed of what possibilities there are.
This hurts the idea of diverse character types, a barbarian must stay in battle taking and dealing damage in order to function. A monk must fight in combinations, A wizard must be careful when he/she runs out of arcane power.
Hurts diversity?
That's a really loose definition of diversity you've got there, bub.
I mean diverse character types within classes. not just among them. I think the things I listed are bad because as far as playing one class goes the resource system is limiting.
This hurts the idea of diverse character types, a barbarian must stay in battle taking and dealing damage in order to function. A monk must fight in combinations, A wizard must be careful when he/she runs out of arcane power.
Hurts diversity?
That's a really loose definition of diversity you've got there, bub.
This, I mean seriously, what I actually read in the OP is "classes are diverse, make them feel identical so only gear makes them different, not their base gameplay style".
Skills and passives create diversity among classes. I mean to say that working with mana opens more opportunites up generally.
This hurts the idea of diverse character types, a barbarian must stay in battle taking and dealing damage in order to function. A monk must fight in combinations, A wizard must be careful when he/she runs out of arcane power.
Hurts diversity?
That's a really loose definition of diversity you've got there, bub.
I mean diverse character types within classes. not just among them. I think the things I listed are bad because as far as playing one class goes the resource system is limiting.
If you'll have a look at especially the class you mentioned, barbarian, with the right passives and smart usage of items available in the game for an extra boost, you can turn barbarian from resource generator to resource spender similar with around how fast a wiz regens its resource, but nobody wants to do that, because nobody starts a barbarian thinking "but I don't want barbarian, I want something that isn't barbarian".
This hurts the idea of diverse character types, a barbarian must stay in battle taking and dealing damage in order to function. A monk must fight in combinations, A wizard must be careful when he/she runs out of arcane power.
Hurts diversity?
That's a really loose definition of diversity you've got there, bub.
I mean diverse character types within classes. not just among them. I think the things I listed are bad because as far as playing one class goes the resource system is limiting.
If you'll have a look at especially the class you mentioned, barbarian, with the right passives and smart usage of items available in the game for an extra boost, you can turn barbarian from resource generator to resource spender similar with around how fast a wiz regens its resource, but nobody wants to do that, because nobody starts a barbarian thinking "but I don't want barbarian, I want something that isn't barbarian".
You don't necessarily have to play a class that differently. Take the amazon, you could be a bowazon or a javazon or a tankazon. Many different builds that played very diifferently. But the flexibility of mana allowed that. They all spent and regenerated mana. They weren't pinned by a class specific system.
Read my edit and no, what you want would kill diversity, resulting in the only diversity being the end class specific sets themselves. This game has many different legendaries more or less useful depending on the class and build you use for a reason, that reason is to enhance how different classes act compared to the others.
The fact that you ignore especially the barbarian which can be changed into 3 fundamentally different approaches tells me that you did not think much about what you actually want from what you think you're suggesting here, which is exactly 99.9% of the suggestions Blizz gets, just things people would think they would want when hey don't even think what such changes would actually mean.
It's true I didn't think about those build options. I just think that mana has an advantage in it's flexibility. if you have a wide array of balanced skills and passives within a class mana will work to your advantage.
Many unique builds seem to work differently but they are too few in number. Mana allows your character to be more open ended in how he/she fights.
You... Understand that right there, is literally diversity, right? Taking away their UNIQUE AND DIVERSE resource system only serves to homogonize them. A Barbarian having full rage for no explained reason at the start of every fight doesn't make sense, when a Barbarian lives to fight. They should generate their 'fury' or will to fight, by fighting. A monk is a zen fighter who finds their center, and knows many different ways to kick ass. A wizard -always- has to be carefull when to fling simple spells, or go all out. And so forth.
Having mana for all, while nostalgic to the earlier games, would just backstab what you want. It would force all to share from the same pool. And if this is about lore, know that they went back and retconned and redid ALOT of things to make it literally make sense with the flowing canon, that otherwise, the canon in the game was a mess. The up to date canon is in the book of Cain.
I mean diverse character types within classes. not just among them. I think the things I listed are bad because as far as playing one class goes the resource system is limiting.
I get what you're trying to say, but your ultimate solution is to increase diversity by homogenizing classes?
The game is more diverse now than it's ever been. A lot of that is fueled by the GOOD legendaries (the ones that aren't just souped-up rares) that create interesting and synergistic bonuses. For example, I love that lightning stun wizard build. It's just a great example of the effects of various legendaries coming together and making something work that isn't otherwise possible.
I don't use Zuni's or JH sets on my WD yet he's still quite potent and capable.
I'm very shocked to see someone harping about diversity at this stage in the game. And to propose a solution that would only hurt diversity? It's important that each class has a "flavor" to it. The fact that everyone's resources work slightly differently is a great thing - it's GOOD that my Barb doesn't "feel" the same as my Crusader/Monk. It's one of the things that Jay did very well and that Josh has wisely continued. Every time I play my DH I think how much better hatred/discipline are than mana was for the Amazon. It just sticks out in my mind how being fair but critical can lead to improvements in the game.
Yes lets go back to barbs just holding down the whirldwind key for hours, such diverse, much gameplay. For all the flaw diablo 3 has, gameplay is not one of them. I sure miss filling my belt with pots and spam them over and over. Ressource management is one of these thing that next to nobody can point out being better in the past than now for RPG. The day of a blue ball/bar and spamming spells until its empty is long gone, its archaic now.
I remember this from Diablo 2: We selected our most heavy hitting skill to our right mouse button and spammed it until things die. Mana was not an issue because of mana potions; and it really hurt the diversity between the characters of the same class. Because resource was endless. Firebolt was the cheap and inefficient skill, Meteor was the expensive but heavy hitting one. But when you know that you can spam meteor endlessly, why would you ever use Firebolt? Or Fireball? Why would you use Teeth instead of Bone Spear? Bash instead of Berserk?
Current resource system in Diablo 3 solves this problem. Now you can make builds which require no resource (Mirrorball-Magic Missile or Multigenerator builds for Monk), builds doesn't rely on generators (DH marauder or Prep-Punishment builds), builds in between where some relies more on skills while others relies more on outside sources. But if we had the old mana system back, all we would have would be Cluster Arrow for DH's, x-palm+bell monks, Whirlwind+Hammer barbarians ect. (I really don't have much knowledge of wizards and witch doctors, so I don't know what they would use). But, even in the current system, we saw how bad things got when some classes had infinite resources.
Now we could change the current resources to mana, and have it llimited by not giving any outside source to gain it (like a mana potion). But the current system limits us good, and what would that change achieve?
I mean diverse character types within classes. not just among them. I think the things I listed are bad because as far as playing one class goes the resource system is limiting.
I get what you're trying to say, but your ultimate solution is to increase diversity by homogenizing classes?
The game is more diverse now than it's ever been. A lot of that is fueled by the GOOD legendaries (the ones that aren't just souped-up rares) that create interesting and synergistic bonuses. For example, I love that lightning stun wizard build. It's just a great example of the effects of various legendaries coming together and making something work that isn't otherwise possible.
I don't use Zuni's or JH sets on my WD yet he's still quite potent and capable.
I'm very shocked to see someone harping about diversity at this stage in the game. And to propose a solution that would only hurt diversity? It's important that each class has a "flavor" to it. The fact that everyone's resources work slightly differently is a great thing - it's GOOD that my Barb doesn't "feel" the same as my Crusader/Monk. It's one of the things that Jay did very well and that Josh has wisely continued. Every time I play my DH I think how much better hatred/discipline are than mana was for the Amazon. It just sticks out in my mind how being fair but critical can lead to improvements in the game.
I feel like most of that was a balancing issue, because people didn't run out of mana the resource wasn't really there. If it was well balanced and mana on hit and mana potiions were weaker or didn't exist I think it could still play out well.
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The problem with the unique resources the other classes have right now is that they are very limiting. Take the monks spirit for example. You must have some kind of resource generator or else you cannot do much. Forcing someone to have a resource generator puts them in this narrow rhythm of generator-generator-generator then spender-spender and back again. With mana you have the freedom to start off with a wide assortment of skills. The barbarian will always have to build his resource first before he can do anything.
This hurts the idea of diverse character types, a barbarian must stay in battle taking and dealing damage in order to function. A monk must fight in combinations, A wizard must be careful when he/she runs out of arcane power.
Many unique builds seem to work differently but they are too few in number. Mana allows your character to be more open ended in how he/she fights.
That's a really loose definition of diversity you've got there, bub.
Having mana for all, while nostalgic to the earlier games, would just backstab what you want. It would force all to share from the same pool. And if this is about lore, know that they went back and retconned and redid ALOT of things to make it literally make sense with the flowing canon, that otherwise, the canon in the game was a mess. The up to date canon is in the book of Cain.
The game is more diverse now than it's ever been. A lot of that is fueled by the GOOD legendaries (the ones that aren't just souped-up rares) that create interesting and synergistic bonuses. For example, I love that lightning stun wizard build. It's just a great example of the effects of various legendaries coming together and making something work that isn't otherwise possible.
I don't use Zuni's or JH sets on my WD yet he's still quite potent and capable.
I'm very shocked to see someone harping about diversity at this stage in the game. And to propose a solution that would only hurt diversity? It's important that each class has a "flavor" to it. The fact that everyone's resources work slightly differently is a great thing - it's GOOD that my Barb doesn't "feel" the same as my Crusader/Monk. It's one of the things that Jay did very well and that Josh has wisely continued. Every time I play my DH I think how much better hatred/discipline are than mana was for the Amazon. It just sticks out in my mind how being fair but critical can lead to improvements in the game.
Current resource system in Diablo 3 solves this problem. Now you can make builds which require no resource (Mirrorball-Magic Missile or Multigenerator builds for Monk), builds doesn't rely on generators (DH marauder or Prep-Punishment builds), builds in between where some relies more on skills while others relies more on outside sources. But if we had the old mana system back, all we would have would be Cluster Arrow for DH's, x-palm+bell monks, Whirlwind+Hammer barbarians ect. (I really don't have much knowledge of wizards and witch doctors, so I don't know what they would use). But, even in the current system, we saw how bad things got when some classes had infinite resources.
Now we could change the current resources to mana, and have it llimited by not giving any outside source to gain it (like a mana potion). But the current system limits us good, and what would that change achieve?