Pretty straight forward question, for me personally I can farm T6 quite easily on my barb and the upgrades left for it are minimal but I still enjoy playing it i'm just not really finding anything. I would also like to try the many builds out there for other classes that require certain pieces like the wand of woh wizard or jade harvest witch doctor but under the current system I likely never will because I don't have much interest in starting from scratch again with a new class, I want to be able to play my barb while finding pieces of gear for other classes.
That being said, I do think that playing the actual class should be the fastest way to gear that class, so I don't think we should be able to switch the smart loot to another class but being able to simply turn it off so that the loot is 100% random seems like a fair compromise. I wont gear a wizard as fast as someone actually playing a Wizard but via playing my barb I will slowly collect the sets of all classes so that I can try them out.
This would both give reason to continue playing a T6 geared main because you will be able to gear alts while not making people who do like to start from scratch with a new class feel like there taking the slow route because thanks to them having smart loot they will likely find the pieces for that class faster than they would playing there main with smart loot off.
I don't like the "Done with your Barb, OK go play your WD now" mentality that Smart Loot provides. Ruksak has used the phrase "on rails" a lot, but it applies particularly here. For many players finding loot for your alts is part of the Diablo experience. Pushing EACH character through the exact same gearing path just leads to that segment of the population finding the game stale. Allowing a player to toggle Smart Loot on/off as they saw fit would completely circumvent this problem without any repercussions that I can think of, so I don't see why not.
The "on rails" term is perfect to describe the rpg experience on Diablo 3. This over protection from Blizzard is getting on my nerves, no trade, gear only for what you are playing.... meh. As i said in Vanilla, thanks god for the combat system, which is top notch, but the linearity of the customization makes the game a lot shallow.
I reached a point i'm more happy to see an off class piece of gear and think about the day i will play that class with the equpment i got while randomly killing monsters
Most people answering "No" probably don't even understand the question, or the purpose of such a feature. It's kind of a shame that despite all the obvious feedback that was directed at the devs, they seem to very stupidly ignore said issue.
I don't like the "Done with your Barb, OK go play your WD now" mentality that Smart Loot provides. Ruksak has used the phrase "on rails" a lot, but it applies particularly here. For many players finding loot for your alts is part of the Diablo experience.
Playing HC as much as I do, I would quickly turn Smart Loot off for many sessions, as I would indulge in seeking end-game gears for chars I haven't rolled/re-rolled yet. Many of us that player D2 for all those years had a dedicated MF (loot hunting) character. You never knew what you'd find with that dedicated char, and this added up to a dynamic experience.
Many folks likely won't catch on as to how constrictive this is until another year or so has passed and they simply have no desire to play their decked out chars anymore.
Frankly, no. This could ruin the game in so many ways, smart loot was probably one of Blizzard better ideas, ever. The chase for new gear and watching your character grow in power is what's fun with this game. Say You've got a perfect geared Barbarian and just run over monsters in T6 like You had a Bulldozer. Making it possible to check and un-check what loot You want and for what class, would be giving people the ability to just gear one character and get 4 basically "free" ones.
Essentially, the only way you get gear for "free" is if you run a bot.
There's a spelling error in the OP title, should be corrected. The OP's suggestion of being able to switch and select what class you're farming for, not cool. DO NOT WANT THAT. It would be more sensible (as well as challenging) to either go with smart loot, finding almost nothing but your class's items.....OR.....take what falls, totally random. So I agree in principle with the OP's idea of turning Smart Loot off, but not with the idea of selective class hunting. Too easy, too "shortcut".
Most people answering "No" probably don't even understand the question, or the purpose of such a feature. It's kind of a shame that despite all the obvious feedback that was directed at the devs, they seem to very stupidly ignore said issue.
Or... people who vote no just prefer smart loot as it is, and don't feel to answer/reason here with all the overwhelming support that the "yes" crowd received from the more vocal part of forum people.
I voted no, and since I can already feel the hatred of those who voted "yes" incoming, I guess I have to explain why (and frankly, I don't expect you to understand because I just think it's a different kind of mindset).
I like smart loot as is and think the 15% non-smart loot are just the compromise Blizzard made in reply to all the criticism in beta. I personally wouldn't mind smart loot for 100% of all drops. (Yeah, at this point I can literally hear shaggy, ruksak, zero, and others sharpening their blades :P)
If I play a class, I want to gear that class, as simple as that. I've got all classes to 70, and while some of them are really bad and unfocused (my Crusader probably wouldn't even be Torment 1 viable), some are getting close to my wizard (who's about at the end of T4-geared, I'd say). Sure, it would be awesome if there was a switch that could turn off wizard drops or even turn on other class drops. The other extreme would be to say "now let's simulate a Crusader loot table". But to me it doesn't feel right. To me it feels like the gearing process of one particular class, which we are forced into by smart loot, is the equivalent process of leveling up and familiarizing with a class in other games (even previous Diablo games). The leveling process (1-70) in Diablo 3 is a joke, I won't go into this in detail; but getting your class from sub-Torment gear to Torment 1 gear and then subsequently improve the gear for every Torment level is what makes you feel like the character improved thanks to your actions. Just using one single class (in my case, the wizard) to fully equip all my other 5 classes, and then jump right into T4+ just feels plain wrong. It feels wrong. And that's why I absolutely like for smart loot to stay as it is.
In fact, if you hate smart loot so much and want a way out, here it is: find friends/clan mates of the class you want to gear up and play with them. My demon hunter actually has quite decent gear already because I just play frequently with Demon Hunters. There are ways to get around smart loot.
I switched to my Witch Doctor yesterday, and today when doing bounties I found two cache items: a wizard belt and a strength mace. What? Why? There is no button "randomly start a game with one of my classes". I made a conscious decision to switch to this other class. Yet, non-smart loot RNG hit me with full force. In fact, although 98% of my playtime since release are on my wizard, I've got more non-wizard Torment-only class set items than wizard set items (6 vs. 5; nine of those self-found). Yeah, it's RNG, but I'm wondering if those complaining about RNG are just really unlucky in the opposite way that I am (I'd gladly give up all my other class sets if only I'd complete a single wizard set). Maybe our attitude towards smart loot is (also) strongly influenced by how much we were affected of smart loot (or just no affected, as in my case).
Anyways, like I've said, I've had numerous such discussions and from previous instances I know that the "NO smart loot" group doesn't understand my point of view, but I felt that my side ("YAY smart loot") was underrepresented in the discussion, so here's my $0.02.
I like smart loot as is and think the 15% non-smart loot are just the compromise Blizzard made in reply to all the criticism in beta. I personally wouldn't mind smart loot for 100% of all drops. (Yeah, at this point I can literally hear shaggy, ruksak, zero, and others sharpening their blades :P)
DIE! DIE you sonovabitch!!!
lol.....just kidding of course. Actually, we're not too far apart on this. I enjoy BoA quite well. I would like to see some form of limited trading included, as I feel trading is an integral part of the ARPG experience. I also agree with you that there is some mitigation already in-game for this issue. As you mentioned, the 15% potential for a non-class rolled item.
The problem is, if they raise it, smart loot becomes dysfunctional. If they lower it, the disparity is so great that it becomes an annoyance. Thus, adding an option to allow people to turn it off and farm for "whatever" is a solid compromise.
I do agree with Zero as to the convoluted OP. The poll asks "Turn Smart Loot Off" (actually it says "of"....fix it please) ...and then the OP adds the caveat in his post "to switch the smart loot to another class". I think Zero's right. Many people don't even read the OP for a poll like this. They get the gist from the headliner question alone.
So the results here are likely far more skewed than one may think.
Yeah i'll be the first to admit my grammar kinda sucks heh, I tend to just randomly write topics about something i'm thinking about in the moment when i'm bored :D. To clarify what I meant is the option to switch between having smart loot on or having all loot be completely random, when I mentioned about the idea of switching to another class I also continued to say I felt this would be to much and that playing the class should be the most efficient way to gear that class.
I don't think there is a way I can edit the title/poll name is there? Nvm it would appear somebody did it for me hah, thank you for that.
Since Diablo 2 there have been so many BETA mmorpg, I think this question has been asked many times before.
I think they realized that the games are supposed to now have smart loot. Players now know that the item drops are truly random, but when we get items that look smart with the stats, it just makes sense to keep it that way so players find more time in their day to do other things, like go on forums, and scan for viruses on their computers, and still having accomplished earning a great character.
Yeah i'll be the first to admit my grammar kinda sucks heh, I tend to just randomly write topics about something i'm thinking about in the moment when i'm bored :D.
Don't sweat the small stuff, bro. We aren't exactly writing a college thesis here. I feel I've accomplished much just getting matching socks on in the morning.
To clarify what I meant is the option to switch between having smart loot on or having all loot be completely random, when I mentioned about the idea of switching to another class I also continued to say I felt this would be to much and that playing the class should be the most efficient way to gear that class.
Ahhhh.....yes that's quite a big difference from the way I read it. Then we are in full agreement, sir.
If I play a class, I want to gear that class, as simple as that.
And I support your desire to want to play like that. So why not band up and you support my choice not to play like that and we get a really robust system that allows us to take control of our experience?
You want to play like that. So you leave smart loot on. I don't want to play like that. So I turn smart loot off.
In a system where we can enable/disable smart loot we both get what we want. Whereas in the current system only you get what you want and everyone else can go sod off, more or less. That's my major problem with the D3 team as it stands.
People complain that the AH dominates the self-found experience. Their solution is to force everyone to play self-found.
People ask for PoE-style "maps" for "endgame" farming. Their solution is to force everyone to do rifts.
People want more-meaningful loot. Their solution is "85% of the items that drop will basically be useless to any other character you have."
I don't get why everyone, including Blizzard, is so hell-bent on defining one, singular, "correct" way to play and then stamping out everything that doesn't fit neatly into that little box. Does it really hurt the game if the OP wants to continue farming with his Barb but he wants to get items for his DH, monk, wizard, or whatever? Giving people options is the best way to get them to stick around longer and that's better for ALL of us.
Or we can continue to try to smash the square peg into the round hole on every subject and wonder why we keep getting splinters.
Frankly, if you want 100% smart loot because that's how YOU choose to play, I fully support you on that.... as it emphasizes exactly that there is no "one size fits all" solution and that we're better off being able to make our own decisions about some of these things. I don't want my desire to have less smart drops ruin your desire to have more smart drops because in the world of software design (particularly video games) they are NOT mutually-exclusive scenarios.
It just requires Josh to loosen up his sphincter a bit so that he can realize that we're not all the same fucking person and that allowing some flexibility and returning some of the aspect of "choice" to the players would go a long way towards making this a very excellent game. Period. End of story!
TL;DR
Ultimately I think that you wanting 100% smart drops (whereas I may sometimes want 85% and sometimes want 0%) is not a cause for knives to come out, but it IS a cause for us to realize that the current system is just naively restrictive for no real purpose and, thereby, to lobby for a more-encompassing system that suits all our needs a bit better.
We can tailor our difficulty to our characters... why can't we tailor other systems?
Turning it on and off I feel would be a pretty jarring way to offer people choice in the game
imagine if sliders were in the option screen or a toggle switch....in contrast to if there was buffs or quests or something that produced or persuaded gear towards a players preference?
maybe items or skill points or a wild new system or area or NPC that was used to persuade certain gear?
all of the above give the players some control over items found. some are graceful some are absolutely not.
it just seems jarring to think of a setting in the options about what type of gear you get along side other options.
Not saying that that is specifically what is being cheered for, but just food for thought....
Exactly what items are found I feel is supposed to be the ultimate mystery and discovery in a players entire time with the game, and I feel that the design of it is right in line with the other IMHO absolute most delicate and important aspects; it just seems tied to the hip of exactly what the items are how they affect a character, how many there are, etc....
I'm glad I dont have to make the choice....lol.....but if i did, id treat the player base like royalty. because after all. its the GMs job to keep the players interested in the campaign....and I dont think all players are satisfied the same way.
Didn't Princess Di say something along the lines of "......everywhere I go, I smell fresh paint......"
Pretty straight forward question, for me personally I can farm T6 quite easily on my barb and the upgrades left for it are minimal but I still enjoy playing it i'm just not really finding anything. I would also like to try the many builds out there for other classes that require certain pieces like the wand of woh wizard or jade harvest witch doctor but under the current system I likely never will because I don't have much interest in starting from scratch again with a new class, I want to be able to play my barb while finding pieces of gear for other classes.
That being said, I do think that playing the actual class should be the fastest way to gear that class, so I don't think we should be able to switch the smart loot to another class but being able to simply turn it off so that the loot is 100% random seems like a fair compromise. I wont gear a wizard as fast as someone actually playing a Wizard but via playing my barb I will slowly collect the sets of all classes so that I can try them out.
This would both give reason to continue playing a T6 geared main because you will be able to gear alts while not making people who do like to start from scratch with a new class feel like there taking the slow route because thanks to them having smart loot they will likely find the pieces for that class faster than they would playing there main with smart loot off.
<Edited to make a bit more sense>
I don't like the "Done with your Barb, OK go play your WD now" mentality that Smart Loot provides. Ruksak has used the phrase "on rails" a lot, but it applies particularly here. For many players finding loot for your alts is part of the Diablo experience. Pushing EACH character through the exact same gearing path just leads to that segment of the population finding the game stale. Allowing a player to toggle Smart Loot on/off as they saw fit would completely circumvent this problem without any repercussions that I can think of, so I don't see why not.
I think it's part of the game to farm the items for each different class on that character to experiment different skill builds.
The "on rails" term is perfect to describe the rpg experience on Diablo 3. This over protection from Blizzard is getting on my nerves, no trade, gear only for what you are playing.... meh. As i said in Vanilla, thanks god for the combat system, which is top notch, but the linearity of the customization makes the game a lot shallow.
I reached a point i'm more happy to see an off class piece of gear and think about the day i will play that class with the equpment i got while randomly killing monsters
Most people answering "No" probably don't even understand the question, or the purpose of such a feature. It's kind of a shame that despite all the obvious feedback that was directed at the devs, they seem to very stupidly ignore said issue.
But I definitely vote yes. I see zero downside, and only upside =D
Many folks likely won't catch on as to how constrictive this is until another year or so has passed and they simply have no desire to play their decked out chars anymore.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
There's a spelling error in the OP title, should be corrected. The OP's suggestion of being able to switch and select what class you're farming for, not cool. DO NOT WANT THAT. It would be more sensible (as well as challenging) to either go with smart loot, finding almost nothing but your class's items.....OR.....take what falls, totally random.
So I agree in principle with the OP's idea of turning Smart Loot off, but not with the idea of selective class hunting. Too easy, too "shortcut".
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
That's one thing they could implant in a patch. The option to choose for what class you want an item for when opening a Cache.
It would make the game more linear and less random.
Or... people who vote no just prefer smart loot as it is, and don't feel to answer/reason here with all the overwhelming support that the "yes" crowd received from the more vocal part of forum people.
I voted no, and since I can already feel the hatred of those who voted "yes" incoming, I guess I have to explain why (and frankly, I don't expect you to understand because I just think it's a different kind of mindset).
I like smart loot as is and think the 15% non-smart loot are just the compromise Blizzard made in reply to all the criticism in beta. I personally wouldn't mind smart loot for 100% of all drops. (Yeah, at this point I can literally hear shaggy, ruksak, zero, and others sharpening their blades :P)
If I play a class, I want to gear that class, as simple as that. I've got all classes to 70, and while some of them are really bad and unfocused (my Crusader probably wouldn't even be Torment 1 viable), some are getting close to my wizard (who's about at the end of T4-geared, I'd say). Sure, it would be awesome if there was a switch that could turn off wizard drops or even turn on other class drops. The other extreme would be to say "now let's simulate a Crusader loot table". But to me it doesn't feel right. To me it feels like the gearing process of one particular class, which we are forced into by smart loot, is the equivalent process of leveling up and familiarizing with a class in other games (even previous Diablo games). The leveling process (1-70) in Diablo 3 is a joke, I won't go into this in detail; but getting your class from sub-Torment gear to Torment 1 gear and then subsequently improve the gear for every Torment level is what makes you feel like the character improved thanks to your actions. Just using one single class (in my case, the wizard) to fully equip all my other 5 classes, and then jump right into T4+ just feels plain wrong. It feels wrong. And that's why I absolutely like for smart loot to stay as it is.
In fact, if you hate smart loot so much and want a way out, here it is: find friends/clan mates of the class you want to gear up and play with them. My demon hunter actually has quite decent gear already because I just play frequently with Demon Hunters. There are ways to get around smart loot.
I switched to my Witch Doctor yesterday, and today when doing bounties I found two cache items: a wizard belt and a strength mace. What? Why? There is no button "randomly start a game with one of my classes". I made a conscious decision to switch to this other class. Yet, non-smart loot RNG hit me with full force. In fact, although 98% of my playtime since release are on my wizard, I've got more non-wizard Torment-only class set items than wizard set items (6 vs. 5; nine of those self-found). Yeah, it's RNG, but I'm wondering if those complaining about RNG are just really unlucky in the opposite way that I am (I'd gladly give up all my other class sets if only I'd complete a single wizard set). Maybe our attitude towards smart loot is (also) strongly influenced by how much we were affected of smart loot (or just no affected, as in my case).
Anyways, like I've said, I've had numerous such discussions and from previous instances I know that the "NO smart loot" group doesn't understand my point of view, but I felt that my side ("YAY smart loot") was underrepresented in the discussion, so here's my $0.02.
lol.....just kidding of course. Actually, we're not too far apart on this. I enjoy BoA quite well. I would like to see some form of limited trading included, as I feel trading is an integral part of the ARPG experience. I also agree with you that there is some mitigation already in-game for this issue. As you mentioned, the 15% potential for a non-class rolled item.
The problem is, if they raise it, smart loot becomes dysfunctional. If they lower it, the disparity is so great that it becomes an annoyance. Thus, adding an option to allow people to turn it off and farm for "whatever" is a solid compromise.
I do agree with Zero as to the convoluted OP. The poll asks "Turn Smart Loot Off" (actually it says "of"....fix it please) ...and then the OP adds the caveat in his post "to switch the smart loot to another class". I think Zero's right. Many people don't even read the OP for a poll like this. They get the gist from the headliner question alone.
So the results here are likely far more skewed than one may think.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I don't think there is a way I can edit the title/poll name is there? Nvm it would appear somebody did it for me hah, thank you for that.
I've changed the title, but I can't seem to edit the poll.
I think they realized that the games are supposed to now have smart loot. Players now know that the item drops are truly random, but when we get items that look smart with the stats, it just makes sense to keep it that way so players find more time in their day to do other things, like go on forums, and scan for viruses on their computers, and still having accomplished earning a great character.
Ahhhh.....yes that's quite a big difference from the way I read it. Then we are in full agreement, sir.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
You want to play like that. So you leave smart loot on. I don't want to play like that. So I turn smart loot off.
In a system where we can enable/disable smart loot we both get what we want. Whereas in the current system only you get what you want and everyone else can go sod off, more or less. That's my major problem with the D3 team as it stands.
People complain that the AH dominates the self-found experience. Their solution is to force everyone to play self-found.
People ask for PoE-style "maps" for "endgame" farming. Their solution is to force everyone to do rifts.
People want more-meaningful loot. Their solution is "85% of the items that drop will basically be useless to any other character you have."
I don't get why everyone, including Blizzard, is so hell-bent on defining one, singular, "correct" way to play and then stamping out everything that doesn't fit neatly into that little box. Does it really hurt the game if the OP wants to continue farming with his Barb but he wants to get items for his DH, monk, wizard, or whatever? Giving people options is the best way to get them to stick around longer and that's better for ALL of us.
Or we can continue to try to smash the square peg into the round hole on every subject and wonder why we keep getting splinters.
Frankly, if you want 100% smart loot because that's how YOU choose to play, I fully support you on that.... as it emphasizes exactly that there is no "one size fits all" solution and that we're better off being able to make our own decisions about some of these things. I don't want my desire to have less smart drops ruin your desire to have more smart drops because in the world of software design (particularly video games) they are NOT mutually-exclusive scenarios.
It just requires Josh to loosen up his sphincter a bit so that he can realize that we're not all the same fucking person and that allowing some flexibility and returning some of the aspect of "choice" to the players would go a long way towards making this a very excellent game. Period. End of story!
TL;DR
Ultimately I think that you wanting 100% smart drops (whereas I may sometimes want 85% and sometimes want 0%) is not a cause for knives to come out, but it IS a cause for us to realize that the current system is just naively restrictive for no real purpose and, thereby, to lobby for a more-encompassing system that suits all our needs a bit better.
We can tailor our difficulty to our characters... why can't we tailor other systems?
imagine if sliders were in the option screen or a toggle switch....in contrast to if there was buffs or quests or something that produced or persuaded gear towards a players preference?
maybe items or skill points or a wild new system or area or NPC that was used to persuade certain gear?
all of the above give the players some control over items found. some are graceful some are absolutely not.
it just seems jarring to think of a setting in the options about what type of gear you get along side other options.
Not saying that that is specifically what is being cheered for, but just food for thought....
Exactly what items are found I feel is supposed to be the ultimate mystery and discovery in a players entire time with the game, and I feel that the design of it is right in line with the other IMHO absolute most delicate and important aspects; it just seems tied to the hip of exactly what the items are how they affect a character, how many there are, etc....
I'm glad I dont have to make the choice....lol.....but if i did, id treat the player base like royalty. because after all. its the GMs job to keep the players interested in the campaign....and I dont think all players are satisfied the same way.
Didn't Princess Di say something along the lines of "......everywhere I go, I smell fresh paint......"
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
The game wouldn't change for you, as long as you keep Smart Loot on.