Idk this Shard of Hate thing has given me the wrong vibe. That they have drawn the line in the metaphorical sand and there will be no sort of legendary that will even come close to being as strong as shard, but in reality it wasn't even that strong to begin with. Yes it did a lot of damage, but not enough to jeopardize the game and anyone who says shard was a free pass to T6 was obviously trolling.
For example lets look at Alkaizer. He had really good gear, full raekors, a really good soj, unity on him and an invincible follower giving him 50% reduced damage, and a near perfect roll on his strongarm bracers. Was he melting t6? Not really. He could farm it at a decent pace, but even then he was killing things rather slow compared to other comparable specs . If you don't believe me he has a week full of VoDs
I don't really know what to think and this whole thing has left a really bad taste in my mouth. This game has come miles from when it launched two years ago and I was happy to pay for the expansion, but I feel that this game needs more powerful items in order to keep the farm worth while. Thunderfury is a good start, but the ceiling needs to be so much higher.
"but I feel that this game needs more powerful items in order to keep the farm worth while"
Really now? So you feel that you need bugged/overpowered items because that's what shard of hate was to feel that you're getting a more worth while farming experience? Worthwhile in the sense that its easy? I wasn't aware that easy =/= rewarding/worthwhile.
Shard of hate was an item that was not working as it was intended to be designed, there is a big difference in nerfing it. They are fixing the item to fit its intended purpose, just as they fix class skills and passives to keep them in line with other classes/builds. This is to create diversity and allow for other options. If the best weapon in the game for all classes/specs is 1 item, what the hell is the point?
Also, who cares what Alkaizer is doing or if hes melting t6 or shitting the bed. The game has been out a month, is it rewarding that you're clearing the hardest mode in the game with ease in only a month? (I'd say no). Would it be more rewarding for you if you had all BIS items for your character essentially making it pointless to even play the game because you've got nothing else to strive for? (I'd say no).
How does the game need more powerful items? Do you need a magic sword that shoots teddy bears with laser beams that 1 shot all bosses to feel that your in a better place now with this game? I bet if you link your profile, you'll have an item in every slot that could be upgraded or improved upon in multiple ways.
TL:DR. The game has been out a month, stop the QQ.
So they made a really cool legendary in a fluke accident and regardless of it "working as intended" you can easily draw the conclusion that there will never ever be a weapon that will come close to being as strong as pre nerf Shard of Hate which is rather stupid considering the fact that they want to make legendaries feel more legendary.
And I was making the point with alk that the weapon wasn't "lawl free t6 pass", you could also work on your manner and tone when talking to other real people.
Why don't you post relevant topics rather than complaining about a game that has been out for less than a month. Sorry I'm not more polite (No I'm not) but these threads are ruining this forum.
It's hard to stay on topic when your whole purpose of the thread was to cry that you don't feel items are ''legendary enough'' to make it worthwhile for you to farm items and the only item you reference is one that was clearly not working as intended.
To which I say again, I can almost guarantee that every item you have can be improved on in multiple ways so stop the QQ.
Once again stay on topic, my gear has nothing to do with overall game design.
What's there to look forward to if they are just going to release legendaries that are mere side grades that will probably instant salvages as well?
@Revolutions "Once again stay on topic". I don't even care If I get an infraction for this, you tell me to stay on topic, yet your bullshit topic is about ITEM QUALITY. To which I will state again, unless you're rolling with all Best-in-slot items you have plenty of room to improve. I'm sorry there isn't a legendary that drops that suddenly triples your DPS. You can't even come back with any sort of valid comments or reasoning, other than ''stay on topic''. Your original topic was you bitching about items and shard of hate. an item that clearly over performed and was BUGGED.
Can we be a a little reasonable and use facts? Shard of Hate wasn't one shotting everything on T6 and I wasn't proposing they implement legendaries that do.
Why would it bother anyone if there will be no OP legendaries? Overpowered means soemthing that is out of place and that does not really fit in with the overall game design approach. Besides, some items are still game changing like the wand of woh or the belt of chilanik.
Your thread could have been named "Doesn't it bother you that the game will remain broken?" Because soh was not nerfed, it was fixed. It was overperforming due to a bug which made it overpowered but they did not nerf the precentage of the damage it deals for an example. I know that this still counts effectively as a nerf but i think the terminology is important here.
And stop telling everyone to stay on topic when they clearly are and besides, your glorified topic is not even that clear. You complain about a specific item and then go on rambling about how it is not as powerful as people made it out to be... Then why are you calling it OP and grieving it's loss?
I like to think posts like these have the potential to inject fun into the forum...
yes Shard of hate was bugged....but what was its working intention? to fling lighting and fire all over the place? I thought it did a bang up job.
Half life 2 had the gravity gun and that was built to test the game. it was never supposed to be in the game as a weapon....im sure you know the rest of that story..
sure maybe the SoH damage was way to high. i have not even seen it in use yet.....but for fucks sake....how many billions of weapons were generated that had a bleed effect that did like 75 to 100 damage over 6 seconds? even the almighty skorn's bleed effect was what...6-12,000? against monster with life pools of several million? no fucking way they would even think of hot fixing that retarded shit...
for how many months did this continue on for? all of them. what 6 months? 12? 99.9 % of all legendarys in the game smashed into dust without hesitation?
so of course the have to quickly neuter a weapon thats way over powered thats true. if the shard of hate was actually 1 shotting everyhing in the highest difficulty...i think a hotfix is definitely in order...
....but one might hope they would be careful about filling the game to the brim with weak and boring weapons...they can have weapons that make you salivate and at the same time not break the game.....one might hope that their design philosophy would do well to cull the population of lame fucking weapon design, but im not sure that is the truly the case....
....and nobody. NOBODY. on this forum wants the Diablo 3 gameplay lifespan to last longer than I do.
just to hopefully strike up a discussion
I think the phrase OP legendary weapons does not mandate that they must be astronomically lethal......I like to think the phrase means that they put a grin on your face for how they make the the combat feel. more fun and more engaging and they make your character feel more "adept" for lack of a better word...
No point for me to get into it, so let me just post what a guy posted.
If it is overpowered, then it must be nerfed.
Nerfs are necessary to maintain balance.
On one hand, some people get mad when things get nerfed, but they also complain that legendaries aren't build changing enough or that they don't have a diversity of builds to choose from.
Guess what? When overpowered things remained without a nerf legendaries aren't going to be powerful enough to change your build because you're build or items are overpowered. When overpowered things remained without a nerf, you don't have build diversity because that overpowered build is way better than everything else.
These people are too stupid and short-sighted to see that legendaries not being build-changing enough, a lack of build diversity, and rampant imbalance would be the result of their anti-nerf ideology. They should be ignored because they are completely wrong.
Also, no, Blizzard can't just buff everything else to the level of the overpowered thing. Otherwise, Blizzard would have to waste months of resources buffing thousands of items or spells every time a item or spell is overpowered, which would lead to massive power-creep so that T6 would soon be faceroll.
On the Shard of Hate, it's not a nerf, it's a bug fix. It's a bug that attacking with the other hand resets the internal cooldown. No other proc works this way, and the tooltip does not say "attacking with the other hand resets the internal cooldown". It's a bug that it doesn't take proc coefficients (https://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/guide/items/equipment#procs) into account. No other item proc works this way, and the tooltip does not say "ignores the proc coefficient". Therefore, these are bugs.
Nerfing overpowered things is always good for the game. Get over it.
What this guy said is right, although he shouldn't of said people are short sighted and dumb, but hes right.
"So they made a really cool legendary in a fluke accident and regardless of it "working as intended" you can easily draw the conclusion that there will never ever be a weapon that will come close to being as strong as pre nerf Shard of Hate which is rather stupid considering the fact that they want to make legendaries feel more legendary."
This is where you lost me entirely. Not only can I not "easily" draw that conclusion, but in fact no one can draw that conclusion at all. That is, unless you've got a crystal ball that lets you see what all the yet-to-be-implemented legendary/set weapons will be. Fixing one bugged weapon doesn't mean that all future weapons MUST be less effective than it was when it was bugged. That's just terrible logic you've got going there.
i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
Shard of Hate was not just overpowered, it was bugged.
When did "Nerf" became a bad word?
And why do you think "Bugfix" is a better way to describe a game change?
If a "fix" is needed to balance, it means they've done a p*ss poor job with beta testing.
Does that make it any better?
Where are the BUFFS to weak/underpowered Skills/Items?
Should we call them "fix" too?
I really don't care if SoH was working as intended, that's not the point of this thread. Its the fact that it was a legendary that made a build barely T6 viable compared to others and it was kneejerk hotfixed. What are we suppose to look forward to if they are just going to implement mediocre legendaries?
It's not a matter of it being overpowered. If an item is strong that's fine, if an item is blatantly broken then it becomes a problem. SoH was broken, hilariously broken. It allowed people to do things far beyond their gear level. One item should not be that powerful.
Despite the whines from people that I otherwise respect like Alkaizer, SoH will continue to be a strong item, it just won't be broken. If it was THE item for your class/build it's still going to be powerful and it's still going to be right up near the top. Just now you'll have options. Previously if your choice was a badly rolled SoH vs a perfectly rolled anything else, SoH would still win. Now you have choices. The fix is a good thing, for you and for the game as a whole. I like it, I had other items that I wanted to try but couldn't justify because SoH was so broken, now it's still a downgrade to try those items, but it's not a horrifically game altering downgrade because SoH will no longer be the most blatantly overpowered thing in the history of ARPGs.
And if you've never used a SoH and you think that this fix is just taking a strong item and making it weak, you're wrong. When I got a SoH I was able to jump in and obliterate things that I had no business fighting with my gear level at the time, because SoH was broken.
Basically what it comes down to is the carrot-on-stick. Some people are playing a competitive multiplayer game which needs balance between players and playstyles, and some sort of endless incremental progress, Other people are playing a single player/friendly co-op game like any other game on anyone's list of steam games, where the purpose of the game is to properly "win" after they aquire the skill or invest the time to do so. What constitutes a "win" in d3 can not be killing malthael, obviously, but must be the certainty that their character can do the hardest difficulty in a fairly straightforward way and that their character, from their own point of view, feels like the one, true nephalem. The design philosophy in the game group #1 are playing is incompatible with the game of group #2, clearly.
I'm not sure which of the two games Blizzard has intended d3 to be, nor which group of players I belong to, but I symphatize with those that just want to finally find the great items, after maybe a 100 hours, that let's them win d3 once and for all, so they can stop playing and move on to the next game. You might claim that nerfs suggest blizzard want it to be the first kind of game, but certainly the 4-player max, account bound stuff and the lack of pvp/leaderboards suggest the opposite. I suspect my own opinion is that it should be possible to win, but that it would require a few thousand hours, not a hundred. I feel like they shouldn't remove the possibility of a godlike character, but that they should require a fantastic and clever combination of items which are hard, but not impossible, to find. Balance still seems a bit meaningless in the long run, since it removes the possibility of beating the game, but at the same time the progression needs to be balanced so that you won't just suddenly win it if one item drops.
For example lets look at Alkaizer. He had really good gear, full raekors, a really good soj, unity on him and an invincible follower giving him 50% reduced damage, and a near perfect roll on his strongarm bracers. Was he melting t6? Not really. He could farm it at a decent pace, but even then he was killing things rather slow compared to other comparable specs . If you don't believe me he has a week full of VoDs
http://www.twitch.tv/alkaizerx/b/519309994
I don't really know what to think and this whole thing has left a really bad taste in my mouth. This game has come miles from when it launched two years ago and I was happy to pay for the expansion, but I feel that this game needs more powerful items in order to keep the farm worth while. Thunderfury is a good start, but the ceiling needs to be so much higher.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
Really now? So you feel that you need bugged/overpowered items because that's what shard of hate was to feel that you're getting a more worth while farming experience? Worthwhile in the sense that its easy? I wasn't aware that easy =/= rewarding/worthwhile.
Shard of hate was an item that was not working as it was intended to be designed, there is a big difference in nerfing it. They are fixing the item to fit its intended purpose, just as they fix class skills and passives to keep them in line with other classes/builds. This is to create diversity and allow for other options. If the best weapon in the game for all classes/specs is 1 item, what the hell is the point?
Also, who cares what Alkaizer is doing or if hes melting t6 or shitting the bed. The game has been out a month, is it rewarding that you're clearing the hardest mode in the game with ease in only a month? (I'd say no). Would it be more rewarding for you if you had all BIS items for your character essentially making it pointless to even play the game because you've got nothing else to strive for? (I'd say no).
How does the game need more powerful items? Do you need a magic sword that shoots teddy bears with laser beams that 1 shot all bosses to feel that your in a better place now with this game? I bet if you link your profile, you'll have an item in every slot that could be upgraded or improved upon in multiple ways.
TL:DR. The game has been out a month, stop the QQ.
So they made a really cool legendary in a fluke accident and regardless of it "working as intended" you can easily draw the conclusion that there will never ever be a weapon that will come close to being as strong as pre nerf Shard of Hate which is rather stupid considering the fact that they want to make legendaries feel more legendary.
And I was making the point with alk that the weapon wasn't "lawl free t6 pass", you could also work on your manner and tone when talking to other real people.
Why don't you post relevant topics rather than complaining about a game that has been out for less than a month. Sorry I'm not more polite (No I'm not) but these threads are ruining this forum.
It's hard to stay on topic when your whole purpose of the thread was to cry that you don't feel items are ''legendary enough'' to make it worthwhile for you to farm items and the only item you reference is one that was clearly not working as intended.
To which I say again, I can almost guarantee that every item you have can be improved on in multiple ways so stop the QQ.
What's there to look forward to if they are just going to release legendaries that are mere side grades that will probably instant salvages as well?
Why would that bother me? Game is not fun if you one shot everything t6. Don't even get me started pvp wise...
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Your thread could have been named "Doesn't it bother you that the game will remain broken?" Because soh was not nerfed, it was fixed. It was overperforming due to a bug which made it overpowered but they did not nerf the precentage of the damage it deals for an example. I know that this still counts effectively as a nerf but i think the terminology is important here.
And stop telling everyone to stay on topic when they clearly are and besides, your glorified topic is not even that clear. You complain about a specific item and then go on rambling about how it is not as powerful as people made it out to be... Then why are you calling it OP and grieving it's loss?
yes Shard of hate was bugged....but what was its working intention? to fling lighting and fire all over the place? I thought it did a bang up job.
Half life 2 had the gravity gun and that was built to test the game. it was never supposed to be in the game as a weapon....im sure you know the rest of that story..
sure maybe the SoH damage was way to high. i have not even seen it in use yet.....but for fucks sake....how many billions of weapons were generated that had a bleed effect that did like 75 to 100 damage over 6 seconds? even the almighty skorn's bleed effect was what...6-12,000? against monster with life pools of several million? no fucking way they would even think of hot fixing that retarded shit...
for how many months did this continue on for? all of them. what 6 months? 12? 99.9 % of all legendarys in the game smashed into dust without hesitation?
so of course the have to quickly neuter a weapon thats way over powered thats true. if the shard of hate was actually 1 shotting everyhing in the highest difficulty...i think a hotfix is definitely in order...
....but one might hope they would be careful about filling the game to the brim with weak and boring weapons...they can have weapons that make you salivate and at the same time not break the game.....one might hope that their design philosophy would do well to cull the population of lame fucking weapon design, but im not sure that is the truly the case....
....and nobody. NOBODY. on this forum wants the Diablo 3 gameplay lifespan to last longer than I do.
just to hopefully strike up a discussion
I think the phrase OP legendary weapons does not mandate that they must be astronomically lethal......I like to think the phrase means that they put a grin on your face for how they make the the combat feel. more fun and more engaging and they make your character feel more "adept" for lack of a better word...
No point for me to get into it, so let me just post what a guy posted.
If it is overpowered, then it must be nerfed.
Nerfs are necessary to maintain balance.
On one hand, some people get mad when things get nerfed, but they also complain that legendaries aren't build changing enough or that they don't have a diversity of builds to choose from.
Guess what? When overpowered things remained without a nerf legendaries aren't going to be powerful enough to change your build because you're build or items are overpowered. When overpowered things remained without a nerf, you don't have build diversity because that overpowered build is way better than everything else.
These people are too stupid and short-sighted to see that legendaries not being build-changing enough, a lack of build diversity, and rampant imbalance would be the result of their anti-nerf ideology. They should be ignored because they are completely wrong.
Also, no, Blizzard can't just buff everything else to the level of the overpowered thing. Otherwise, Blizzard would have to waste months of resources buffing thousands of items or spells every time a item or spell is overpowered, which would lead to massive power-creep so that T6 would soon be faceroll.
On the Shard of Hate, it's not a nerf, it's a bug fix. It's a bug that attacking with the other hand resets the internal cooldown. No other proc works this way, and the tooltip does not say "attacking with the other hand resets the internal cooldown". It's a bug that it doesn't take proc coefficients (https://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/guide/items/equipment#procs) into account. No other item proc works this way, and the tooltip does not say "ignores the proc coefficient". Therefore, these are bugs.
Nerfing overpowered things is always good for the game. Get over it.
What this guy said is right, although he shouldn't of said people are short sighted and dumb, but hes right.
And why do you think "Bugfix" is a better way to describe a game change?
If a "fix" is needed to balance, it means they've done a p*ss poor job with beta testing.
Does that make it any better?
Where are the BUFFS to weak/underpowered Skills/Items?
Should we call them "fix" too?
This is where you lost me entirely. Not only can I not "easily" draw that conclusion, but in fact no one can draw that conclusion at all. That is, unless you've got a crystal ball that lets you see what all the yet-to-be-implemented legendary/set weapons will be. Fixing one bugged weapon doesn't mean that all future weapons MUST be less effective than it was when it was bugged. That's just terrible logic you've got going there.
Vanilla didnt had a Beta, and the Family & Friend RoS wasnt a real Beta either.
They could have prevented a LOT of problems we have today. But they refused to.
Despite the whines from people that I otherwise respect like Alkaizer, SoH will continue to be a strong item, it just won't be broken. If it was THE item for your class/build it's still going to be powerful and it's still going to be right up near the top. Just now you'll have options. Previously if your choice was a badly rolled SoH vs a perfectly rolled anything else, SoH would still win. Now you have choices. The fix is a good thing, for you and for the game as a whole. I like it, I had other items that I wanted to try but couldn't justify because SoH was so broken, now it's still a downgrade to try those items, but it's not a horrifically game altering downgrade because SoH will no longer be the most blatantly overpowered thing in the history of ARPGs.
And if you've never used a SoH and you think that this fix is just taking a strong item and making it weak, you're wrong. When I got a SoH I was able to jump in and obliterate things that I had no business fighting with my gear level at the time, because SoH was broken.
I'm not sure which of the two games Blizzard has intended d3 to be, nor which group of players I belong to, but I symphatize with those that just want to finally find the great items, after maybe a 100 hours, that let's them win d3 once and for all, so they can stop playing and move on to the next game. You might claim that nerfs suggest blizzard want it to be the first kind of game, but certainly the 4-player max, account bound stuff and the lack of pvp/leaderboards suggest the opposite. I suspect my own opinion is that it should be possible to win, but that it would require a few thousand hours, not a hundred. I feel like they shouldn't remove the possibility of a godlike character, but that they should require a fantastic and clever combination of items which are hard, but not impossible, to find. Balance still seems a bit meaningless in the long run, since it removes the possibility of beating the game, but at the same time the progression needs to be balanced so that you won't just suddenly win it if one item drops.
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/sodomir-2220/