I think the barbarian has had it sweet for along time now and I think the perma WOTB build getting nerfed is some much need balancing. Nothing against the barb class I just think being able to :
The change that should be made is change it how they do with archon instead of nerfing it. Now Barb is back to D3V before double tornado, no one is using him.
The change that should be made is change it how they do with archon instead of nerfing it. Now Barb is back to D3V before double tornado, no one is using him.
I am still playing barb atm and rocking hard.
Barb needed the nerf in order to really make things balanced.
Barbs are suppose to generate fury then spend it and re-gain it again, not have infinite..
Also OP gave you a subscriber, view, like, and comment. If you wish to do the same with me id apperciate it.
The change that should be made is change it how they do with archon instead of nerfing it. Now Barb is back to D3V before double tornado, no one is using him.
I am still playing barb atm and rocking hard.
Barb needed the nerf in order to really make things balanced.
Barbs are suppose to generate fury then spend it and re-gain it again, not have infinite..
Also OP gave you a subscriber, view, like, and comment. If you wish to do the same with me id apperciate it.
It need to change not nerfed. Instead of giving 1 second for every 25 fury, give 1 second for every killed.
Honestly, it is not overpowered. If you remove perma barb, how is the barb able to compete with other classes? Other classes primary skill can all hit multiple targets except the barb. You can argue Barb has cleave, but who use cleave?
You're being ridiculous, Barbs were never designed to require perma-WotB in the first place. If (big IF) Barbs actually are underpowered in RoS, they can be buffed without re-introducing a mandatory imba skill to use as a crutch.
It need to change not nerfed. Instead of giving 1 second for every 25 fury, give 1 second for every killed.
The irony is that Archon does currently function exactly like that... and people have perma-Archon builds which is getting Archon redesigned.
Changing WotB as you suggest would achieve nothing except continuing to make it near-mandatory for most barbarian builds. Brutally-OP things like Archon and WotB (on live) completely overshadow the idea of build diversity because you're simply wrong if you're not using it.
I just love you guys peach for build diversity (which there is none) and then complaint someone who doesn't do a cookie cutter like all other class.
This game is all cookie cutter. How to build a good char? 500 RA, 50k life, 40% crit, 300% crit dmg, 30% IAS, max DPS. All the same.
People will always use the most efficient skills and/or fun skills.
Right now, all class is pretty balance. If you remove the barb perma barb, then people will move away from barb. It simply do not warrant a 2 minutes cooldown for what it has to offer.
Prior to reluctantly turning into a whirlwind barb, I loved using cleave. It just was NO where near as efficient unfortunately. I am glad the change is occurring as it made the game rather, brainless. I was be making a crusader from the launch of RoS and will be enjoying knowing nothing about the class. It will feel like whole new game again.
I just love you guys peach for build diversity (which there is none) and then complaint someone who doesn't do a cookie cutter like all other class.
This game is all cookie cutter. How to build a good char? 500 RA, 50k life, 40% crit, 300% crit dmg, 30% IAS, max DPS. All the same.
People wanting build diversity and people who call others "noob" if they don't use cookie cutter builds can (and usually are) different.
Right now classes are not balanced. No other class have the advantages barbarians have: very high dps, very high speed and perma immunity to stuns, freeze, vortex ect. No other class can match the speed of a sprinting perma-berserk barbarian, and they only have limited invulnerability
I'm not much of a Barb player so this doesn't really effect me, but, why didn't they just delete the Barb character? Might as well have as no one will use it anymore with all the things they did to it.
I'm sorry, but if you believe this, then your opinion on the subject is nil. Demon Hunters and Witch Doctors beg to differ. The only class that can touch a Barb in terms of farming (due to all the reasons people have specified) is the Archon Wizard... which oddly enough is also being nerfed.
The idea of a COOLDOWN necessitates that it should not have 100% uptime unless it's provided by a set/legendary bonus. This is the same discussion that happened with Archon, and is now happening with APoC. Having unlimited arcane power with very little, and common, gear investment is bad for the game because it automatically invalidates lots of builds. Just go trade for some common APoC rares, load up, and go to town.
People will always use the most efficient skills and/or fun skills.
That doesn't mean Blizzard should sit on their hands when a few skills are so completely out-of-line with the rest and say "well you're going to pick the most efficient anyway."
That would mean that, in the current game, all DHs should just be content to level up a Barb and play that because... hey... one class is ALWAYS going to be more efficient. So fuck people who chose DHs. Balance doesn't need to happen.
Whirlwind's damage was increased from 145% to 275%. What was nerfed was the insane synergy of running at full speed while invincible and immune to crowd control and full on fury, killing things without even trying. What you call "useless" is simply the reality of what the game is like for every other build.
almost hoping you are a troll but it doesnt look like it so here goes
compare the dmg of whirlwind to the other skills in the same slot. the damage for the skill is much lower than rend, HoTA and seismic slam due to the ability providing the utility of being allowed to move while attacking.
now being able to move and attack at the same time is great, but in the barbs overall kit it isn´t really anything you need. it was op as hell with wrath yes, but without it? and without infinite fury?
what you have then is something that slows you down, doesn´t really kill anything all that fast and wastes alot of fury and has a medium sized aoe. all that on top of taking a precius skillslot.
and no i don´t feel its the reality for every other build in the game. i believe the demon hunter has a similair ability. difference is she gets to keep the 100% ms rune, has larger AoE and according to the numbers on live, it does more damage than ww (to lazy to dig for datamined info on a class i don´t intend to play so im going by live numbers on this since it is likely to be buffed to the same degree as ww dmgwise).
The damage per fury is a bit more than HotA with a larger radius. And it doesn't slow you down - moving while attacking is better than standing still while attacking. Maybe it doesn't suit your preferences and that's fine, that's how balanced skill choices are supposed to work. Demon Hunters are a squishier and more mobile class so it makes sense they would have the damage + speed advantage. Worst case scenario if the skill is a little bit weak, they'll buff the damage a little bit; it's not the end of the world.
That's the thing with any balance discussion I come across. It's always clear that the person arguing has a certain way they play, prefer certain skills, and aren't capable of seeing the broader picture. Just the other day, someone was complaining that the barb has resource issues because they can't spam Sprint endlessly. Now I'll be the first to admit Fury gen could be better, but that argument is just a non-starter.
Theirs lots of polarized opinions here I think if WOTB was not perma and was burst as intended it would help the other classes to be competitive too. Ultimately I play the Monk because I enjoy it the most but it if I did play Barb I'd be in a very different spot in the game right now.
hahahahaha kinda funny he shows this fucking terrrribly geared monk trying like MP10 to compare it to the barb.
Not saying barb isn't OP.... it is. but when a video is so clearly biased and retarded it makes me mad they couldn't even do it properly. I can make any class 50 mil set and get a decent clear speed. prolly about 65-75% of the barb speed.
i could easily make a barb look shitty with the way he made that monk look. its all about perspective.
right now 50% of ppl play barbs and that sure doesn't feel right(not kidding) even if 50% of them quit barb there is still going to be more barbs than other classes
i do crypts every day and there are 2 comunities: barb haters (players that dont like OP classes)
If this is final for ROS, then Barb will be back to pre double tornado, no one use it. His only function was a meat shield until double tornado was introduce. Remembered every barb just switch to Monk. And this will be what is going to happen.
If you want to balance this, just change into fray give 1 fury per monster hit. This way, WOTB can be extended beyond the 15 seconds, at the same time, make it very very hot to get it perma.
A skill used by noone is still better than a skill used by everyone. You have choices in one and you don't in the other.
Edit: Anything that give you something per hit/kill can and will be abused. Like how at the start of Diablo 3 people only used fast one-handed weapons to get more healing from LoH. If you change into the fray 1 fury per hit, then people will only use dual daggers to gain more fury. Even if you make it 1 fury per kill, then people will ignore defense, stack as much damage as possible, and never go beyond torment for farming just to have infinite fury.
This explains it all:
http://youtu.be/AkWGgSd-N5M?t=19s
Barb needed the nerf in order to really make things balanced.
Barbs are suppose to generate fury then spend it and re-gain it again, not have infinite..
Also OP gave you a subscriber, view, like, and comment. If you wish to do the same with me id apperciate it.
Honestly, it is not overpowered. If you remove perma barb, how is the barb able to compete with other classes? Other classes primary skill can all hit multiple targets except the barb. You can argue Barb has cleave, but who use cleave?
Changing WotB as you suggest would achieve nothing except continuing to make it near-mandatory for most barbarian builds. Brutally-OP things like Archon and WotB (on live) completely overshadow the idea of build diversity because you're simply wrong if you're not using it.
This game is all cookie cutter. How to build a good char? 500 RA, 50k life, 40% crit, 300% crit dmg, 30% IAS, max DPS. All the same.
People will always use the most efficient skills and/or fun skills.
Right now, all class is pretty balance. If you remove the barb perma barb, then people will move away from barb. It simply do not warrant a 2 minutes cooldown for what it has to offer.
Right now classes are not balanced. No other class have the advantages barbarians have: very high dps, very high speed and perma immunity to stuns, freeze, vortex ect. No other class can match the speed of a sprinting perma-berserk barbarian, and they only have limited invulnerability
The idea of a COOLDOWN necessitates that it should not have 100% uptime unless it's provided by a set/legendary bonus. This is the same discussion that happened with Archon, and is now happening with APoC. Having unlimited arcane power with very little, and common, gear investment is bad for the game because it automatically invalidates lots of builds. Just go trade for some common APoC rares, load up, and go to town.
That doesn't mean Blizzard should sit on their hands when a few skills are so completely out-of-line with the rest and say "well you're going to pick the most efficient anyway."
That would mean that, in the current game, all DHs should just be content to level up a Barb and play that because... hey... one class is ALWAYS going to be more efficient. So fuck people who chose DHs. Balance doesn't need to happen.
Not saying barb isn't OP.... it is. but when a video is so clearly biased and retarded it makes me mad they couldn't even do it properly. I can make any class 50 mil set and get a decent clear speed. prolly about 65-75% of the barb speed.
i could easily make a barb look shitty with the way he made that monk look. its all about perspective.
If you want to balance this, just change into fray give 1 fury per monster hit. This way, WOTB can be extended beyond the 15 seconds, at the same time, make it very very hot to get it perma.
Edit: Anything that give you something per hit/kill can and will be abused. Like how at the start of Diablo 3 people only used fast one-handed weapons to get more healing from LoH. If you change into the fray 1 fury per hit, then people will only use dual daggers to gain more fury. Even if you make it 1 fury per kill, then people will ignore defense, stack as much damage as possible, and never go beyond torment for farming just to have infinite fury.