Let's talk ladders.

  • #1
    So, everywhere I look I see people discussing ladders. I just wanted to start a thread to see what people want from ladders, how they would feel they could be best implemented, what types of ladders people want, or if they even want them at all.

    Most say something along the lines of ;"Path of Exile has ladders, so Diablo 3 should." But, all I can think of is that PoE is an entirely different game to Diablo. PoE has a huge focus on making unique characters, levelling them and trying out the new builds. PoE's focus on unique character creation is obvious, and to many people that's the main point of the game, as PoE also struggles with endgame. So these ladders fit with the game, reinforcing the re-rolling of characters. No two characters are the same, and you cannot completely respec.

    Which brings me to my point. What could make remaking character's in Diablo appealing, after all, every character is the same, has access to all the same abilities and have identical stat points. What would make re-rolling, a new fun and interesting prospect?

    The reason I'm asking is because I think Blizzard are looking for a new way to implement ladders. Something that would fit with Diablo's system. And maybe just yelling "Ladders!" all the time isn't quite effective enough. So what ideas do you have?

    Ill start with just a couple of ideas.

    Dungeon Master Ladder: An endless dungeon that gets harder after (fully) clearing each floor level. There would be a ladder, that displays what floor you managed to get to, with the top 100 (for example) being listed on battle net. You would be able to view this ladder, both in-game and via battle net.There would be a tiered rewards system that grants vanity items for success.

    Hardcore Classic: A race to the highest Paragon level. Ladders could vary from 1 week sprints to 2 month marathons. I feel classic ladders like this would fit hardcore better, as there is a sense of danger with rushing.

    What types (if any) of ladders would you like to see the most, and why do you think it would fit with Diablo 3's game design.
  • #2
    Nope, let's not talk ladders. I felt the discussion in the recent thread went nowhere:

    http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/80357-give-ladders-or-riot

    If there's a ladder it should not have ladder-only items, otherwise everyone's forced again to join it, just like in D2. As long as no one's forcing me to play ladder I don't care what it looks like.


    Last edited by Bagstone: 1/29/2014 1:35:58 PM
  • #3
    I don't think having ladder only items necessarily forces people to play ladder but it is definitely an incentive. The main reason not to play ladder is to continue playing your main that you love. I think the best solution is to keep these incentives for ladder in place but then have 3-6 week gaps between ladder seasons where ladder characters can not be created.

    This avoids non-ladder becoming insignificant. Gives more value to non-ladder characters, while still promoting all the benefits of ladder. There needs to be a incentive for casual ladder play, because if the only incentive is the imaginary ladder points then if you're not one of the top 500 players there ends up being no point.

    This can very well be accomplished without ladder only items as well. Incentives could include:

    banner items

    transmog items

    vanity items(cloaks would be amazing)

    vanity pets

    buffs for xp/gf/mf for use on non-ladder

    bonus paragon level xp at the end of season depending on performance(reach plvl 100 get 100,000,000

    bonus paragon xp when the season ends, be a top contender get x bonus paragon xp etc etc)

    So if ladder only items would frustrate people I'm fine with not having them but we should get something.
  • #4
    Quote from Sadeiko

    I don't think having ladder only items necessarily forces people to play ladder but it is definitely an incentive. The main reason not to play ladder is to continue playing your main that you love. I think the best solution is to keep these incentives for ladder in place but then have 3-6 week gaps between ladder seasons where ladder characters can not be created.

    This avoids non-ladder becoming insignificant. Gives more value to non-ladder characters, while still promoting all the benefits of ladder. There needs to be a incentive for casual ladder play, because if the only incentive is the imaginary ladder points then if you're not one of the top 500 players there ends up being no point.

    This can very well be accomplished without ladder only items as well. Incentives could include:

    banner items

    transmog items

    vanity items(cloaks would be amazing)

    vanity pets

    buffs for xp/gf/mf for use on non-ladder

    bonus paragon level xp at the end of season depending on performance(reach plvl 100 get 100,000,000

    bonus paragon xp when the season ends, be a top contender get x bonus paragon xp etc etc)

    So if ladder only items would frustrate people I'm fine with not having them but we should get something.

    Perfect! This!
    "When I die, bury me inside da booty club."
  • #5
    While I don't plan on participating (I say that, because I might do it anyhow), I do agree that D3 could really use some kind of Ladder system (with regular resets). In fact, I think D3 could use Ladders MORE than games like D2 or Path of Exile.

    In both of those games, there's more "permanence" to skill and stat choices, meaning people are rerolling characters all the time in order to find what they like best, or what works best, or whatever. Thus, in those games, you're already getting the feeling of starting over from level 1 fairly regularly. Whereas, in D3, once you have one toon at the level cap for each class, it's just a matter of collecting a variety of gear to change out their builds. So unless you play exclusively Hardcore and are dying all the time, chances are when you get a bunch of characters to the level cap, you're not spending much time at the beginning of the game.

    Not to mention, in D2 and PoE, due to their temporary "permanence" (i.e., permanent only in the sense that you can start as many characters over as you want), if you make a wrong click in your D2 skill tree, or you spend your refund points too fast in PoE, your success in the Ladder/Race is going to plummet fast. Which is a shame. It's like getting engine trouble in a pro auto race that sets you back 10-20 laps. Your chances of catching up are slim at that point. In D3, while people can change up their builds at almost any time, and unlock skills at the same levels as others of the same classes, it's more about what kinds of gear you collect and what kinds of stats and skills you emphasize going into higher levels.

    Plus, with Adventure Mode in the expansion, and the ability to tune up difficulty immediately after game creation, there would be lots of different methods to grinding XP and advancing. Compared to D2 (and I believe PoE as well), where you have to start every Ladder character on Normal difficulty, and go through the game in order, the same exact way...so advancing basically becomes "how fast can you blaze through quests, talk to NPCs, and collect rewards"...which is really just a matter of how well you know the order of quests and how to complete them fastest which gives people some edge.

    D3 could definitely use this, and with the features the expansion brings, Ladders could be a lot more engaging than they are in other games.
    Last edited by CardinalMDM: 1/29/2014 3:06:47 PM
    Pre AH-shutdown Transcendence/Spirit (Re)gen build, uses only found and crafted gear and gems, can handle MP7.
  • #6
    i would like to see a ladder system comparable to the anime, sword art online. It would be a hardcore ladder with 100 floors progressively getting more difficult. first players to reach the top and beat floor 100 wins the ladder season. a system like this would make use of the guild and clan system as well as add real sense of competition. is this possible by the time ros comes out? no. but it is an interesting idea that i would like to see in a game like diablo.
  • #7
    Ladder was the thing I disliked most about D2. But if people want it i'm fine with it as long as it's optional and there is no ladder only content/items. Ladder should be for bragging rights only, maybe some achievements or ranking systems or the like, but that should be it.

    I just finally made it to P100 on live a few weeks ago. I really don't want to start from square one again. I like to feel like i'm working toward something and my progress should feel like... well.. progress. Not something that is going to get reset time and time again.
  • #8
    Adding "incentive" to a game feature just to get people to play it subverts a lot of the mechanics built into the system to make it stand on its own.
    Last edited by eman41: 1/29/2014 3:55:30 PM
  • #9
    Quote from eman41


    Adding "incentive" to a game feature just to get people to play it subverts a lot of the mechanics built into the system to make it stand on its own.

    QFT and put in bold because this can't be stressed enough. If you want ladder, play ladder once it's there. If you need an incentive for ladder, what's the point of a ladder in the first place? Why do you want to have a ladder, just because of the incentive? It's like a snake eating its own tail.
    Last edited by Bagstone: 1/29/2014 4:07:10 PM
  • #10


    Quote from Bagstone


    Nope, let's not talk ladders. I felt the discussion in the recent thread went nowhere:

    http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/80357-give-ladders-or-riot

    If there's a ladder it should not have ladder-only items, otherwise everyone's forced again to join it, just like in D2. As long as no one's forcing me to play ladder I don't care what it looks like.






    Quote from Bernie_666


    Ladder was the thing I disliked most about D2. But if people want it i'm fine with it as long as it's optional and there is no ladder only content/items. Ladder should be for bragging rights only, maybe some achievements or ranking systems or the like, but that should be it. I just finally made it to P100 on live a few weeks ago. I really don't want to start from square one again. I like to feel like i'm working toward something and my progress should feel like... well.. progress. Not something that is going to get reset time and time again.



    Quote from eman41


    Adding "incentive" to a game feature just to get people to play it subverts a lot of the mechanics built into the system to make it stand on its own.



    Quote from Bagstone


    Quote from eman41


    Adding "incentive" to a game feature just to get people to play it subverts a lot of the mechanics built into the system to make it stand on its own.

    QFT and put in bold because this can't be stressed enough. If you want ladder, play ladder once it's there. If you need an incentive for ladder, what's the point of a ladder in the first place? Why do you want to have a ladder, just because of the incentive? It's like a snake eating its own tail.


    /thread
  • #11
    ^ That.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #12
    ^Those.
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