BOA's purpose is bullshit

  • #1
    in case u didnt read the front page


    Main goals:

    - Make it so that playing the game is the best way to get the best items. In this scenario, "playing the game" refers to the core mechanic, which is killing monsters. The designers really dig that kill monsters > get loot > kill more monsters > get more loot reward loop, and felt it was being compromised by the ease of trading, particularly for Legendary and Set items. We want those top-tier items to be earned through gameplay.
    - In light of the AH shutting down, still try to limit the negative impact the third-party market has on the game as much as possible. (This goes back to goal #1 and is one of the reasons why the current rules are set up the way they are.)

    Greatest hopes? That the new loot model for the majority of players feels rewarding and satisfying -- and natural, too -- and that there's an actual sense of personal progression as you advance from finding Rares to finding Legendaries. An item being BoA ideally won't be a dealbreaker because the loot hunt itself is in a good place (this is where the rewarding/satisfying/natural part comes in).

    Greatest fears? As with anything game design related, the greatest fear is that -- despite your research, your testing, your experience, and your gut -- what you've designed isn't fun for most players and winds up hindering the game more than helping it. We don't believe that will be the case with BoA (and feel it will actually be the opposite), but no one here is infallible.


    this is pretty bullshit reason i would say, when we group with a bunch of friends/strangers/traders we want to get our good gears asap and progress to the next stage asap. NOW blizz wants us to STUCK in the bloody same spot for a long time if u remember how 99% of us stuck in inferno A1/A2 before the nerf? They might as well make diablo series single player mode so that 3rd party cant do anything about it, why make it multiplayer when we dont benefit much as a group?
  • #2
    Isn't it possible to trade a dropped item to someone that you were grouped with when the item drops, for up to 2 hours?
  • #3


    Quote from stevedoctor


    Isn't it possible to trade a dropped item to someone that you were grouped with when the item drops, for up to 2 hours?


    Yes. I'm not against the BoA model. But to make it work they need to retune the current drop rate and reward system. It's just completely unrewarding right now.
  • #4
    You know what's the best way to make playing the game the best way to get loot? Make it so playing the game IS the best way to get loot. I don't see the point in making loot finding take forever, and have this wide range of shit possibilities and a vary narrow window of great gear. Either make stuff drop more or make the range smaller so when it drops, you want to crap our pants with excitment because you know it is an upgrade.

    I don't care about trading that much. But I like to play all characters and the current model still inhibits my abilities to play all characters at anywhere near an effective level unless I have no life. Considering I am in medical school I will give up diablo time before I give up school time.
  • #5
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11307851097?page=1

    There are over 250 legendaries in the game (there were 244 in vanilla, and AFAIK more were added with RoS). Now with loot 2.0, they can all drop at any level. They also have varied rolls which can heavily impact whether it is actually a good item. Let's say you get two legendaries an hour. I obviously don't have exact droprates, but two an hour seems high for the current build so I will give the benefit of the doubt. The best legendaries also apparently have a lower droprate than that.

    If you want to make a build from a specific legendary, you are looking at up to (or more than) 125 hours of play for ONE legendary. I would do specific numbers here, but I can't remember how to do probability at the moment. For some reason it feels like the potential playtime far exceeds 125 hours since each legendary could drop more than once.

    So that is one legendary, for one of six characters that you have. Well, what if you want to use a set instead of a legendary? Suddenly you need 5 specific legendary items, that you can only obtain through playing yourself.

    Well, what if you get bad rolls on your legendary items? Low damage, low main stat, low everything. Suddenly you need that drop AGAIN. You are talking thousands of hours for one set of legendaries for one character. This is unreasonable.


    Are set bonuses really good enough to justify thousands of hours of play?
  • #6


    Quote from stevedoctor


    Isn't it possible to trade a dropped item to someone that you were grouped with when the item drops, for up to 2 hours?


    what if i dropped the item and my friend needs it but isnt online? Doesnt that defeat the purpose of having friends in ur friendlist until we finally group together?
  • #7
    BOA does not worry me, if I find legs I will use them for all my characters and if I don't need it no big deal, I will just vend or sell. But what is annoying is once again the devs just stated that the designers love the idea of killing monsters to get loot, kill more monsters and get more loot how ever they have partially killed that idea by dropping leg rates because of gambling legs.

    I DO WANT TO FIND LOOT but how can I if the leg drop is poor, I don't intend to gamble my ass off just to MAYBE get legs. I have not had the chance to try gambling and so therefore I do not know what is involved, does it cost gold and mats? and if you do how often you run out before you need to run out and get more?

    BOA is just one part of the over all tuning problems at the moment, there has to be a balance but finding loot should be the biggest priority to pleasing most of the player base. It is like "What came first? the chicken or the egg?" we need loot before we can start worrying about BOA.


    Last edited by Kiwimustang67: 1/20/2014 11:37:45 PM
    Only good Demon is a dead Demon!!!
  • #8
    Since the legs/set are BOA, if anything that can improve the game is increase the chance of them dropping not decreasing it.

    It is another Blizzard's failed logic on what is fun. This is what happened when the developers don't even players their own games decided what is best of the gamers.
  • #9
    Does anyone else read these anti-BOA threads and posts and just hear AH Tycoons desperately trying to find anything to cling to to protect their ability to sell items?
  • #10


    Quote from Finder


    Does anyone else read these anti-BOA threads and posts and just hear AH Tycoons desperately trying to find anything to cling to to protect their ability to sell items?


    thats how I look at it, its mostly scammers, hackers, dupers, AH players, and the like who are throwing a fit because lets face it, other than AH players, a vast majority of the online diablo community that people interacted with fell under this category, as anyone with a brain played with their friends in passworded games and never ventured into any public game EVER. I think BOA might need a little bit of tuning to ease up things for trading with friends and stuff, but other than that I think the idea is sound.
  • #11
    I think that everything is actually evolving.

    The new loot system will alter the RNG a bit, in a way that players who play less than other may be able to get upgrades and kill monsters more efficiently, but the people who will have the top gear are the ones willing to take the effort and that is quite fair.

    Also, cutting the wings of third party websites, scammers, illegal sellers, ecc... is definitely something real good.

    With items being BoA, people who turned diablo3 into an industry will take a long break. That is quite an encouraging thought.



    Getting gear on our own (killing monsters) is and should be the normal way to progress through the game.

    If the drops are tuned in a way that we don't have to take forever to farm our gear OR to find it too easy without much effort, then it's going to be just great.


    “Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter”
  • #12
    No, it's not bullshit. And I'm glad they finally admitted that their main concern was third party website trading (instead of the initial excuses). Apparently they don't wantany pay to win in the game anymore, and quite frankly, BoA is the only way that was going to happen.

    The dealbreaker for me is going to be how sometimes, when playing with some friends, you could be saving gear for them (specially in those cases where you can't be online at the same time), and pulling each other up every time you find something nice.

    But instead we're gonna be stuck with the whole "he has to be IN the game for me to give him an item that he wants and that I want to give him, so we can play a higher difficulty together". That's probably the biggest letdown of BoA to me, and I find itvery weird that they haven't given any response on what are their thoughts on implementing something liketrading with clan for 2 hours (or trade with Friends List when the item dropped).
  • #13


    Quote from Zero(pS)


    I find itvery weird that they haven't given any response on what are their thoughts on implementing something liketrading with clan for 2[/i] hours (or trade with Friends List when the item dropped).[/b]


    I thought they said that as long as a person is on your friend list, you could still gift an item, regardless if 2 hours have passed or not.
    “Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter”
  • #14


    Quote from Kiwimustang67


    BOA does not worry me, if I find legs I will use them for all my characters and if I don't need it no big deal, I will just vend or sell. But what is annoying is once again the devs just stated that the designers love the idea of killing monsters to get loot, kill more monsters and get more loot how ever they have partially killed that idea by dropping leg rates because of gambling legs.

    I DO WANT TO FIND LOOT but how can I if the leg drop is poor, I don't intend to gamble my ass off just to MAYBE get legs. I have not had the chance to try gambling and so therefore I do not know what is involved, does it cost gold and mats? and if you do how often you run out before you need to run out and get more?

    BOA is just one part of the over all tuning problems at the moment, there has to be a balance but finding loot should be the biggest priority to pleasing most of the player base. It is like "What came first? the chicken or the egg?" we need loot before we can start worrying about BOA.




    BOA in and of itself doesn't worry me, it's the effect it has on drop rates that does, my main fear since it was announced is that leg/set drop rates are either going to be to low so you don't feel you'll have the chance to complete any set ever or find that 1 build defining item you've been after for a year or too high so that leg/set seem to be raining from the sky and leg/set items just become the normal, in both instances the gameplay will feel unrewarding and tedious.
  • #15
    <sorry, reply under someone's post didn't do what i thought - delete>
    Last edited by FatMan: 1/21/2014 4:03:25 AM
    I used to shoot people in the knee with arrows, then I took an arrow to the knee.

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  • #16


    Quote from justiceknight




    Quote from stevedoctor


    Isn't it possible to trade a dropped item to someone that you were grouped with when the item drops, for up to 2 hours?


    what if i dropped the item and my friend needs it but isnt online? Doesnt that defeat the purpose of having friends in ur friendlist until we finally group together?


    Wait, are you implying that your friends will only play with later if you give them loot?

    My question, does BoA only affect legs? ie: Can we still give people rares?
    I used to shoot people in the knee with arrows, then I took an arrow to the knee.

    Support my photography. A hobby, but starting to make some money out of it. Brett Delport Photography

  • #17


    Quote from justiceknight


    in case u didnt read the front page


    Main goals:

    - Make it so that playing the game is the best way to get the best items. In this scenario, "playing the game" refers to the core mechanic, which is killing monsters. The designers really dig that kill monsters > get loot > kill more monsters > get more loot reward loop, and felt it was being compromised by the ease of trading, particularly for Legendary and Set items. We want those top-tier items to be earned through gameplay.
    - In light of the AH shutting down, still try to limit the negative impact the third-party market has on the game as much as possible. (This goes back to goal #1 and is one of the reasons why the current rules are set up the way they are.)

    Greatest hopes? That the new loot model for the majority of players feels rewarding and satisfying -- and natural, too -- and that there's an actual sense of personal progression as you advance from finding Rares to finding Legendaries. An item being BoA ideally won't be a dealbreaker because the loot hunt itself is in a good place (this is where the rewarding/satisfying/natural part comes in).

    Greatest fears? As with anything game design related, the greatest fear is that -- despite your research, your testing, your experience, and your gut -- what you've designed isn't fun for most players and winds up hindering the game more than helping it. We don't believe that will be the case with BoA (and feel it will actually be the opposite), but no one here is infallible.


    this is pretty bullshit reason i would say, when we group with a bunch of friends/strangers/traders we want to get our good gears asap and progress to the next stage asap. NOW blizz wants us to STUCK in the bloody same spot for a long time if u remember how 99% of us stuck in inferno A1/A2 before the nerf? They might as well make diablo series single player mode so that 3rd party cant do anything about it, why make it multiplayer when we dont benefit much as a group?

    Ok well A; You do beneift from being in a group. The mobs don't scale 100% per player so you can farm faster, and you can trade items found to group members.

    B; If you've actually tried the PTR from level 1 without giving the character any gear, the progression is really nice, and you often find upgrades. The only bad side ATM is the low legendary drop rate.

    C; Hostile thread is hostile. You're only going to start flame wars with a title as such, as well as a paragraph with nothing substantial in it, or any points of actual logic or thought.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #18


    Quote from GambitST




    Quote from Zero(pS)


    I find itvery weird that they haven't given any response on what are their thoughts on implementing something liketrading with clan for 2 hours (or trade with Friends List when the item dropped).


    I thought they said that as long as a person is on your friend list, you could still gift an item, regardless if 2 hours have passed or not.


    Where did you hear this? This is my main concern because my son and i play. I play when hes in bed sometimes so i would love to be able to still give him something i found the next day.
    Stay Gold
  • #19
    The same legendaries can drop everywhere now. Higher difficulty just increases droprates.

    And in terms of stronger items dropping only in Torment: I'm sure they are meant for T2-6. T1 can be played with items you find on lower difficulties.
  • #20
    *** made this post by error, please delete ***
    Last edited by GambitST: 1/21/2014 6:02:05 AM
    “Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter”
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