The next skill to be fixed in ROS

  • #21
    CB is impossible to balance, precisely because it gets more powerful at higher difficulty levels, unlike every other stat ever.

    I can see why they want another DPS stat, but CB is, IMO, a total bust. It's neither interesting nor optional. I'll lobby for changing it to be based on the player's HP until the end of time, but basing it on monster HP is a design dead-end.
  • #22
    ZOMG broken skills/bugs/items in RoS it's like we never had a beta... oh wait aren't we in beta now???? MIND BLOWN!!! Does this mean everything we know won't be 100% for sure in the retail version!!!!

    I

    CAN'T

    COMPRHENED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Derp.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #23
    Quote from Catalept

    CB is impossible to balance, precisely because it gets more powerful at higher difficulty levels, unlike every other stat ever.

    I can see why they want another DPS stat, but CB is, IMO, a total bust. It's neither interesting nor optional. I'll lobby for changing it to be based on the player's HP until the end of time, but basing it on monster HP is a design dead-end.


    How about a difficulty system that does not rely on multiplying healthpools by 2 digit factors? Isn't THAT the problem of crushing blow? It CAN be allowed to be better vs high hp targets as long as it's worse agains low hp targets.
  • #24
    Quote from Melt

    Quote from Catalept

    CB is impossible to balance, precisely because it gets more powerful at higher difficulty levels, unlike every other stat ever.

    I can see why they want another DPS stat, but CB is, IMO, a total bust. It's neither interesting nor optional. I'll lobby for changing it to be based on the player's HP until the end of time, but basing it on monster HP is a design dead-end.


    How about a difficulty system that does not rely on multiplying healthpools by 2 digit factors? Isn't THAT the problem of crushing blow? It CAN be allowed to be better vs high hp targets as long as it's worse agains low hp targets.


    Well yeah... I'm at something of a loss to explain why Blizzard went all 64-bit on monster HP, but even at lower HP levels, CB just functions as a crit that does (much) more damage to tougher opponents. I've no doubt that some combination of baseline DPS and monster health could make it workable, but even then it'll be Lifesteal 2.0... irrelevant at lower difficulties, mandatory at higher ones.

    What I'd like to see is (at least) one DPS stat that doesn't just slot into existing DPS builds. Adding a fourth 'core' DPS stat will certainly make it easier to build a decent set, as it increases the chances of a 'fully loaded' item... but I'd rather have a stat that altered the desirability of all the other stats... maybe one that increased the damage of non-crit hits, or one that worked off your second highest stat for its base damage.

    ... but then, I like mathy systems, so I'm probably not the best guy to ask :)
  • #25
    CB is a big issue but this skill/item has nothing to do with CB, it has been tested, even with 0CB, you can still farm Torment VI without any problem, you can still kill anything within 5-10 secs. all you need is Plague of Toads + Rehn'Ho Flayer, and empty the other 5 skill slots, then you are ready to destroy ROS.

    No other class can do this except the mighty Witch Doctor

    instant kill Torment VI Adria http://zh-tw.twitch....naliu/c/3307794
  • #26
    You make a claim that it has been tested without CB . . . and then link yet another video showing crushing blow at work. Show me a vid where he shows 0% crushing blow on his character sheet and then proceeds to insta-kill a boss with just this skill and legendary at the same speed in T6 and I'll start to pay attention.

    The only thing the legendary does is guarantee the toads will find a target and give them a double explosion. This definitely amps the damage potential but not to the tune we are seeing in these videos.
  • #27
    He tested 0CB during his stream,i don't have video because he didn't record it. you can ask him to test for you if you want to see, he is on live stream now. by the way, his CB was only 17% in the video,

    if you guys still thing this is CB issue then so be it, i don't want to spend my time arguing that. the reason i post this is to share the information with people that this weapon is bugged, that's all.
  • #28
    CB might be OP, I'm not sure, but it's still apparent someone didn't do the math here;

    Yea, let's give WD's (with 1 certain legendary) a quick casting, no cooldown, no mana cost spell that does a total of 1470% weapon damage.

    Before anyone rages, I'm talking the 245% explosive toads rune. x6 = 1470.

    Now THAT is op. No question about it.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #29
    Quote from Minioats

    `Everybody seems to be so upset and let down about bugged abilities and it being so "easy" .... why are people forgetting this is the SOLE reason there is a beta!
    This version the streamers and other people are playing is at no point a finished version of this game..... hold your thoughts about it being a waste untill you actually either play it yourself on release or see the released version on a stream.
    Crying about a beta is just so damn pointless!


    This kind of commentary is what I despise most.
    No one is upset or crying, dude. We're just discussing. Aren't forums made to discuss stuff ?
    What is your point ? "It's a beta, so people shouldn't discuss it." ?
    Sorry but your line of thought makes no sense at all.
  • #30
    Quote from Bleu42

    CB might be OP, I'm not sure, but it's still apparent someone didn't do the math here;

    Yea, let's give WD's (with 1 certain legendary) a quick casting, no cooldown, no mana cost spell that does a total of 1470% weapon damage.

    Before anyone rages, I'm talking the 245% explosive toads rune. x6 = 1470.

    Now THAT is op. No question about it.


    That would be awesome math if each individual toad did 245% damage. I suppose you believe each blazing spider in a jar does 230% damage as well.*

    *apologies as my previous understanding on toad mechanics was not correct and the sarcasm above wasn't merited -- see post below about homing, etc.
  • #31
    Quote from Emberos

    Quote from Bleu42

    CB might be OP, I'm not sure, but it's still apparent someone didn't do the math here;

    Yea, let's give WD's (with 1 certain legendary) a quick casting, no cooldown, no mana cost spell that does a total of 1470% weapon damage.

    Before anyone rages, I'm talking the 245% explosive toads rune. x6 = 1470.

    Now THAT is op. No question about it.


    That would be awesome math if each individual toad did 245% damage. I suppose you believe each blazing spider in a jar does 230% damage as well.


    I admittedly haven't played much Witch doctor, but can you point to proof that they don't each do that damage? The wording implies they do;

    Release a handful of toads that deal 130%weapon damage as Poison to enemies they come in contact with
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #32
    You know what, the original wording of spiders is different than jar and does say "Throw a jar with 4 spiders that attack nearby enemies for a total of 120% weapon damage as physical before dying." Key words being "for a total of." In current D3, I never used the Toads skill much because the targeting is sketchy/random. However, after reading a bit, it does look like your read was correct and each toad can do do that much damage if it hits . . . but that normal targeting and randomness of their direction doesn't make it common for all 3 to hit unless you are right on top of your target.

    Thus, in this case, the powerful damage amping part of the legendary may have as much to do with the "homing" part of the effect (each toad now guaranteed to connect) as it does the chance for the double explosion. When read this way, the homing+the double explosion chance does make for a bit of an overpowered legendary. It is still not doing all the work we are seeing in these videos on it's own (that is more the high number of chances per second for crushing blow damage that come from handfuls of fast casted double exploding toads) but it does likely make for a spammable skill that is too strong. Perhaps one or the other - "homing" or "chance for double explosion" - but not both would be more appropriate.
  • #33
    I think they just need to add a cooldown period on CB so that it can't happen more than once every couple seconds. Nerf the all-CB ultra fast attack speed builds while keeping it as a valuable addition to most players' DPS.
  • #34
    A simple fix would be that only 1 toad of each cast seeks a given target. So when you cast plague of toads when fighting one monster seeks one toad that monster and are the rest random as usual, but when you are fighting six monsters shall all six monster seek a different monster.

    I hope that current CB doesn't survive beta. A potential DPS stat that could work is a stats that gives more DPS to slow attacks, like a stat "focused hit" that increases DPS by % only the first time you hit a monster each 2 seconds. This would make 2h builds who focus on slow big attacks viable, a tiny individual attack of high APS builds would barely notice this buff, but a huge 2h attack would be buffed a lot.
  • #35
    Quote from elsamurai777

    if you guys still thing this is CB issue then so be it, i don't want to spend my time arguing that. the reason i post this is to share the information with people that this weapon is bugged, that's all.


    CB *clearly* is an issue because Blizzard is investigating balancing it properly and many people think it won't make it out of the beta.

    You keep linking videos and screenshots where the guy CLEARLY is using CB (the initial SS you jizzed over had a 10 million CB hit, for example). It's very difficult to understand how OP something is when you aren't seeing it in an isolated manner. That's how you test things, though. You have to isolate the variables as best you can.

    Quote from Bleu42

    Yea, let's give WD's (with 1 certain legendary) a quick casting, no cooldown, no mana cost spell that does a total of 1470% weapon damage.


    Just to be clear, that is IF you have an item... and with one specific rune too.

    Is it that unreal that, provided you have a supporting legendary, a primary attack could become your main attack? I think that's kinda cool myself. Yes, maybe it needs some tuning, that's always up for debate... but people did want build-changing items... and this one CERTAINLY allows you to make a build where Plague of Toads is the only attack you use - something that, previously, would not be possible.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #36
    Quote from shaggy
    Is it that unreal that, provided you have a supporting legendary, a primary attack could become your main attack? I think that's kinda cool myself. Yes, maybe it needs some tuning, that's always up for debate... but people did want build-changing items... and this one CERTAINLY allows you to make a build where Plague of Toads is the only attack you use - something that, previously, would not be possible.


    Well it wouldn't be that OP combo if there is similar combos for others classes and skills. It all comes down to them nerfing that single combo or designing others to do something comparable to that. :P
  • #37
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from elsamurai777

    if you guys still thing this is CB issue then so be it, i don't want to spend my time arguing that. the reason i post this is to share the information with people that this weapon is bugged, that's all.


    CB *clearly* is an issue because Blizzard is investigating balancing it properly and many people think it won't make it out of the beta.

    You keep linking videos and screenshots where the guy CLEARLY is using CB (the initial SS you jizzed over had a 10 million CB hit, for example). It's very difficult to understand how OP something is when you aren't seeing it in an isolated manner. That's how you test things, though. You have to isolate the variables as best you can.

    Quote from Bleu42

    Yea, let's give WD's (with 1 certain legendary) a quick casting, no cooldown, no mana cost spell that does a total of 1470% weapon damage.


    Just to be clear, that is IF you have an item... and with one specific rune too.

    Is it that unreal that, provided you have a supporting legendary, a primary att could become your main attack? I think that's kinda cool myself. Yes, maybe it needs some tuning, that's always up for debate... but people did want build-changing items... and this one CERTAINLY allows you to make a build where Plague of Toads is the only attack you use - something that, previously, would not be possible.



    Don't get me wrong I LOVE the legendaries so far, I'm just pointing out that I think it's just a wee bit overpowered. I mean, a free to cast 1470% dmg attack that has 6 quick hits to proc other stats? Personally I'd either remove the double explosion, or the seeking, or have the legendary add a mana cost to it.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #38
    It is confirmed by the streamer that the damage caculation of this bugged weapon has been fixed,

    This morning he played the WD and found out he cannot farm T6 anymore.

    Frog WD can only farm T2 now

    just wait for the Blues. i think they will explain everything.


    P.S. WD lovers no need to worry, Fire Bats Build can farm T3-4 and Zero Dog Build can farm T5-6
  • #39
    What exactly did they fix? / link? Because, even though after I better understand the combo, I can agree it was a bit overpowered, I don't think it was ever "bugged" in the true sense of the word. It was poorly designed / conceived and thus offered greater benefit than intended but I wouldn't say bugged. It seems in order to fix it, it would take a change to the affix or the core skill . . . and too nerf the skill because of a poorly designed legendary wouldn't make sense so I'm hoping they changed the affix.
  • #40
    L M A O . . . add Breath of Heaven / Scorn rune with helm that has 50 yd radius / 50% decreased cool down affix to this list:

    https://www.youtube....h?v=EHvXEKuUhG0
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