What will keep me playing?

  • #21
    Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.


    Isn't starting new characters for ladder, pvp, and offline all just leveling a class? It seems like you just want Diablo 3 to have more ways that force you to re-level a character.
  • #22
    As of right now, I'll simply not be buying the game at all. Just not interested in a console style action game and I play (free) flash games for a quick fix, whenever I feel like getting one.

    It's too bad really. That first post Travis Day made a while back, after Jay Wilson was off the project, had my hopes up quite a bit and I followed the news extensively. AH removal was a high. It's all been downhill from there, the more information that popped up about the expansion the more disappointed I got, right up until watching the streams that basically confirmed most of my misgivings. They talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk. Oh well.
  • #23
    Quote from Uldyssian

    but it's going to boil down to what we make of the game that's given to us as much as it's up to Blizzard to create an engaging set of options.


    That's actually part of the problem. This game lacks freedom; the gameplay experience is completely streamlined and 'on rails'.
  • #24
    Quote from eman41

    Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.


    Isn't starting new characters for ladder, pvp, and offline all just leveling a class? It seems like you just want Diablo 3 to have more ways that force you to re-level a character.


    Which, as I've pointed out before, was basically just an inconvenience in D2 since it was so easy to power level new characters to get them to the point that could use any item in the game and have enough skill points to make any build you wanted. You can do the exact same thing in D3, minus the several hours of work grinding the character to level 80.

    And if you want to level up a new character just for the fun of it, nothing is stopping you from doing that.
  • #25
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Uldyssian

    but it's going to boil down to what we make of the game that's given to us as much as it's up to Blizzard to create an engaging set of options.


    That's actually part of the problem. This game lacks freedom; the gameplay experience is completely streamlined and 'on rails'.


    Even after adventure mode arrives?
  • #26
    Quote from miles_dryden

    And if you want to level up a new character just for the fun of it, nothing is stopping you from doing that.


    Bingo.

    Or play hardcore...recklessly.
  • #27
    Quote from miles_dryden

    Quote from maka

    Quote from Uldyssian

    but it's going to boil down to what we make of the game that's given to us as much as it's up to Blizzard to create an engaging set of options.


    That's actually part of the problem. This game lacks freedom; the gameplay experience is completely streamlined and 'on rails'.


    Even after adventure mode arrives?


    I'd say 'yes', because I wasn't talking specifically about having to go through the story. It's the philosophy of the game: they made a point of controlling every single aspect of the user's gameplay experience, instead of having a more 'sandboxy' approach like D2 had.


    Quote from miles_dryden

    And if you want to level up a new character just for the fun of it, nothing is stopping you from doing that.


    That's just it: it's not fun in D3. I wish it was, but it's not. I even got into Hardcore to try to make it more fun; it only worked slightly, but it's still not fun.
  • #28
    Quote from Mini641

    You didn't play D2?

    First, You were much more heavily invested in characters in D2. You actually had to use a build, you couldnt easily flip flop specs without investment. This meant a hardcore player had many characters of the same class all playing differently with their own gear.

    Second, In D2 levels meant something, you leveled up, placed points into your attributes and skill tree. It was much more important than paragon skills...

    Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.


    I played the shit out of D2, I was being faceteous. My point was that there's really not much you could do in D2 that you can't do in D3, D3 is just much smarter about it.

    You can make a new character every time you want to try a new build in D3 if you want. I don't, and I appreciate not having to, but I can. And I do routinely make new characters, both hardcore and softcore, because I enjoy leveling new characters. I try out different skills as I level, and if I get tired of them I just change them out for a few levels instead of never finishing the character, because God forbid I spend any skill points outside of my build, effectively wasting them. And I'm still plenty invested in my characters, I just don't define them by their main attack. I also can't be bothered to trade gear between active characters, so they all have their own sets.

    Levels in D3 unlock skills and gear, which is all they did in D2. Neither game lets you use Whirlwind, for example, until you get to the right level. The difference is that in D2, you had to sit on your stat points until you could spend them in the skill you wanted to use, and everything along the way was underpowered because again, God forbid you put an extra point in a skill you weren't going to use long-term. I have plenty of fond memories of sitting on 10+ skill points; how meaningful is that? Stat points were no better - with a small handful of exceptions, it was enough STR and DEX for gear, rest in VIT, no points in Energy, with plenty of sitting on 50+ points if you didn't have your end-game gear sitting in your stash and, as a result, didn't know exactly how much STR/DEX you needed to wear it.

    It's true D3 doesn't have ladders, but all the ladders really do is rank you - there's nothing stopping you from starting fresh in D3. As I said above, I do it all the time. Which is not to say I wouldn't like ladders in D3 - but it's not some distinct D2 playstyle that's extinct now. I don't think anyone still played Classic if they had the Expansion; you're just reaching there. For PvP, I'm not well versed enough to understand the complaints. The only PvP I did in D2 was the occasional free-for-all in Act I with friends, which is the same as brawling except you could run far away.
  • #29
    Quote from maka

    Quote from miles_dryden

    And if you want to level up a new character just for the fun of it, nothing is stopping you from doing that.


    That's just it: it's not fun in D3. I wish it was, but it's not. I even got into Hardcore to try to make it more fun; it only worked slightly, but it's still not fun.


    Could this just be a change in taste on your part? I mean, do you still go back to D2 and say, "Yeah, this is the stuff?"

    Because I know I can't. I always hated having to ignore skills I'm not planning to use long term, and being able to use them at "full strength" on the way up, until something new unlocks, is just awesome. I couldn't go back to to the skill-tree method.
  • #30
    Quote from maka

    I'd say 'yes', because I wasn't talking specifically about having to go through the story. It's the philosophy of the game: they made a point of controlling every single aspect of the user's gameplay experience, instead of having a more 'sandboxy' approach like D2 had.


    I feel like you are being intentionally vague. In what way do you feel railroaded by the game, that D2 didn't?


    That's just it: it's not fun in D3. I wish it was, but it's not. I even got into Hardcore to try to make it more fun; it only worked slightly, but it's still not fun.


  • #31
    Quote from daisychopper

    Quote from maka

    Quote from miles_dryden

    And if you want to level up a new character just for the fun of it, nothing is stopping you from doing that.


    That's just it: it's not fun in D3. I wish it was, but it's not. I even got into Hardcore to try to make it more fun; it only worked slightly, but it's still not fun.


    Could this just be a change in taste on your part? I mean, do you still go back to D2 and say, "Yeah, this is the stuff?"

    Because I know I can't. I always hated having to ignore skills I'm not planning to use long term, and being able to use them at "full strength" on the way up, until something new unlocks, is just awesome. I couldn't go back to to the skill-tree method.


    Nope, it's not a change in my tastes.
    Of course the outdated graphics and lack of certain 'quality of life' takes a toll, but I played the D2 mod Eastern Sun until very recently, and it was still a blast. A few months ago, I played it again with a friend and it was still a blast. If I had friends that wanted to play it today, I would; I just can't be asked to play it single player, at the moment. But who knows? Maybe in a couple of months I'll boot it up again (it's still installed in my computer).

    EDIT: I refuse to answer memes. You wanna talk, fine; you wanna post memes....then please don't quote me.

    Regarding "why the game feels 'on rails'": the original quote to which I was replying said that "the game is what you make of it". I disagree, because the game doesn't let you do very much outside of what the devs envisioned your experience to be. It's online-only, so you can't modify anything for a tailor-made single player/small group experienc; PvP is incredibly.....I can't even find the word....there's just nothing there; the campaign is incredibly long-winded, with many periods of inactivity; 4-player games limits your freedom to go outside the boundaries of the 'maintsream', 'normal' game......
    So many things.
  • #32
    My take on it is to sit back and wait for the beta to take shape. If it can please those who are difficult to please, then it's all the better for me. I'll be happy either way though.
  • #33
    If anything that they have done to 'derail' us from playing a certain way is removing the difficulties to beat before we can start the endgame. That is HUGE the franchise had always been about playing the story over and over again. Now we can actually start the grind for minmaxing whenever we want. I think it will be great.
  • #34
    From what I've seen so far I'm not very impressed. The game does have a console feel to it which I don't like. It's strange to see Blizzard go for a console experience when PC style games are doing better than ever, talk about strange timing. Blizzard made their name by providing great online gaming experiences, now they seem to abandon that. Doesn't make much sense to me.
    :ph34r:
  • #35
    People that are storming Torment VI in 4 days are using bugged skills.

    There are dozens of streamers working on Hard, Torment I, different classes that the OP Crusader...

    Check them for a better grip of the expansion and then, hate it or love it, I don't mind. This is not the subject, I'm talking only about the difficulty.
  • #36
    Quote from Mienta

    Quote from Mini641

    Quote from daisychopper

    Quote from maka

    No, but there sure was a lot more to do than get all classes to end-game and then farm farm farm forever. D2 had infinitely more replayability than D3, and I have some doubts RoS can change that. But I'll be here to see.



    What else was there to do in D2 other than farm for items or experience?


    You didn't play D2?

    First, You were much more heavily invested in characters in D2. You actually had to use a build, you couldnt easily flip flop specs without investment. This meant a hardcore player had many characters of the same class all playing differently with their own gear.

    Second, In D2 levels meant something, you leveled up, placed points into your attributes and skill tree. It was much more important than paragon skills...

    Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.


    You're pointing out a lot of meaningless stuff to make it seem like there was more to do than there actually was.

    How was putting 5 points into vitality in D2 more entertaining than choosing from like 20 different stats in Paragon 2.0? Stat-allocation in D2 was: enough strength for gear -> max block or not? If yes then dex untill done -> every single point into vitality. That's all there was to it. Now you actually have somewhat meaningful decisions, even though each level only is a slight upgrade.

    The points you put into skills were simply a slight damage boost each level, which basically forced you to have 1 or 2 spells that were fully optimized with synergies and all. You could then spam those 1 or 2 spells for eternity on that character - I really don't see how that's exciting compared to D3 skill system. Personally I remember wishing for a respecc system in D2 for soooo long before it came.

    RoS might have ladders - but you have a point here. The excitement of a fresh economy on a ladder reset in D2 was truly great, except that you knew the economy would be ruined in 1-2 weeks by bots.

    Do you really want to make us believe that you created a non-expansion character after LoD came out? I really don't see your point here, or how it will be any different in D3. Also, offline-mode in D2 was pretty boring compared to online-mode if you had a decent connection. I personally didn't play offline ever since i started playing online.


    Its simple leveling up in D2 was part of your building a character process. With Paragon its an account wide thing and most of the points are meaningless.

    Honestly i dont think a feature should be taken off the table because a small % of hardcore players power leveled. I never did and imo its their own fault for doing it. Still doesnt make re-leveling builds any less amazing.

    Yes I played Classic after LoD released and offline mode with mods...

    Its a fact you had more options in D2, it doesn't matter if you personally didn't like the options.
  • #37
    Quote from Mini641

    Its a fact you had more options in D2, it doesn't matter if you personally didn't like the options.


    I am an avid supporter of more options and more freedom, but I can't help but disagree with that statement. People need options they are into. I'm not saying that any one of us has to be in love with every single option presented, but if we're not enamored with most of the options, most of the game, then that's a problem.

    By your logic, if I wanted a game mode where all monsters look like Miley Cyrus and all weapons looked like 14" dildos, Blizzard should implement it because it doesn't matter if anyone else thinks it's good, bad, or indifferent. And, frankly, that makes no sense.

    Options for the sake of options is a bad idea. Adding quality options that appeal to many players... THAT is what Blizzard needs to do. Unfortunately, in the landscape of gaming today, people seem to think that every game is custom-tailored to them and that if it's not the game is a failure.
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  • #38
    Quote from Mini641

    Get every class to 70 (this is assuming i like every class)
    Face roll Torment 6.
    Get account wide paragon to 100-200 (gives enough points to get everything a spec needs)

    Then what?

    Ladders? With no economy and account wealth being meaningless?

    Please explain it to me, what will keep me playing?

    Will D3 get new skills constantly to change flavor of the month builds?
    Will D3 have Leagues with new rule sets With Turbo monsters, PVP, and other weird stuff?
    Will D3 Allow me to find an item, theory craft a build and level up that character progressing through multiple difficulties?


    In D3 i level a character, get OP gear in a few weeks and then im left staring at a paragon number the rest of the time... Ill never have to re-roll that class, Ill have no incentive to increase my accounts wealth or look forward to new fresh economy.

    What will keep me playing?


    I think you might wanna consider not playing the game or check it in few months/years when fits what you're looking for in this kind of game, you might wanna try to find an alternative of d3 or even go back to d2 (in case you're an d2 player).

    I mean, as a consumer, blizzard doesn't force you to buy the game and since you're pretty much sorted with what you gonna/have to do in RoS and doesn't fit you, you might wanna skip this one and save your money for something worth.
  • #39
    Quote from miles_dryden

    Even after adventure mode arrives?


    I fully expect to spend a lousy several hundred of hours playing with friends just finding gear and builds that let me stomp the hardest difficulty on the classes I like and try out a bunch of legendary-based builds, but then what? That's it really. Much less than the thousands of hours I was expecting, and indeed deserve.

    Adventure mode is bullshit. Blizzard's arrogance is still forcing me to into only being able to wear a single helm (with only one stupid gem in it)... forcing me to pick skills from a single class...play in the Diablo universe, instead of unlocking portals to the Lost Vikings universe, where I really want to play. All this hand-holding crap taking away all the choices that should be mine makes me furious. FURIOUS I TELL YOU!
  • #40
    Well I seem to recall Blizz saying they liked the way Infernal Machine/Hellfire Rings turned out and will be adding more "Uber" quests like that in RoS... So I'm guessing once you get to 70, get good enough gear to faceroll Tormet VI, and grind up enough Paragon to feel you're "Capped" (btw, iirc 800 is the paragon level you'll max out all the non-core tabs, not 200) then you're done with the game until they add whatever the next uber quest is.
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