Incentive to play RoS (about BoA)

  • #1
    first off, sorry if it belongs to the mass topic thats apparently sitting here on the forum and is hard to miss (or any other very similar topic that i didnt use search function to find) - if you think thats the case, let it fall

    i had a lot of things to do and lost that initial exctement about expansion (to the level "it comes when it comes" - knowing everything now not gonna benefit anything but a curiousity)
    i didnt rly read much about blizzcon (there wasnt anything big and cool announced tbh)
    when sudden beta came i was just slightly suprised and visited forums but again, didnt read much

    tho there was one bothersome thing that i stumbled accross and its ofc making ALL legendary BoA (apparently announced at blizzcon?)
    i dont have issues with binding in itself, thought it was good idea to bind crafts, boss drops legendaries (guaranteed after first kill - as shown on gamescon) or enchanted and rerolled items but binding everything is just going overboard

    i played diablo 2 non-stop till warcraft came out, i was farming items and then trading them for things i actually want - no im actually lying, i didnt like farming, was getting weary and bored pretty fast of it and was just trading 90% of the time (still cant remember how i managed to play cowruns marathons for like 10 straight hours on daily basis - maybe because the game was much faster and there was more ppl? now it feels like everyone needs a break after 2 games)
    the reason i was trading was ofc to perfect my gear which, regardless of amount of dupes floating around, was still ridiculously hard to do and the reason i was trying to perfect my gear was to actually play pvp on a competetive level with likeminded ppl with whom i could actually CHAT in lobby channel which was a much better social experience than using old clunky IRC

    now...
    1) after them stating theyre thinking about 'proper ways to handle' it, trading got just removed...being able to trade rares is not good enough, just check your character now and count number of rares that you use which arent boa (crafted) already, after that check the list of amazing must-have affixes from legendary rings that you want and ask yourself again how many rares you probably gonna use and need...
    2) pvp is still not here and seems it might not be there at all since theyre not even mentioning thinking about it when asked
    3) no chat rooms - guild chat probably wont be enough for me - what if i want go and visit some other community and chit-chat with them in game? cant do that, wont ever be able to - still cant believe how that xbox fucktard broke whole amazing battlenet and theyre still not able to fix it after this many years

    thats it, i just dont see anything that can keep me playing after first month or so, i dont rly like farming as i mentioned, ladder is not a factor to me and with removal of trade, the final thing that kept me playing d2 for so long is gone from d3

    im rly puzzled what to think now and i wonder if anyone got any suggestion to my issues about what else i could possibly do in my favourite game serie to keep me interested
  • #2
    If you dont like farming, I think you missed the genre. ARPG's essentially = farming, even D2 was like that although I do agree it was/ is far superior to D3V.

    I will find my fun in playing with friends/ clan mostly I assume. And seems like the farming will be much more fun and random than it used to be, which is automatically more fun, especially if you get a decent drop every now and then, which isn't the case in D3V.
  • #3
    d2 kinda definted trading as an integral part of online arpg, i dare to say that farming in that game was less than 1% of my time spent with game, if yu count in expaing, maybe it was 25%, there was just so much else i could do, now theyre removing last of those things and adding back some semi-proper means to communicate but there just wont be anyone to talk to anyway (im not rly interested in chatting with pvm scrubs about what not dropped for them and how blizzard is ninja nerfing drop rates again)
    playing in 4 ppl parties in d3 also feels more like tea meeting than a real team effort, just not something very exciting...

    i wasnt rly concerned about them removing single player mode to force casuals to rmah but for sure didnt expect 180 turn and forcing everyone else to play single player online only game
  • #4
    I'm in the same boat. I'm against the BOA philosophy however I'm not against binding. Bind on Equip is even a far better compromise. I'm also ok with binding after enchanting, transmog, socketing, whatever modification. Just let me move an item that I don't intend to use.

    The two hour window is not a fair compromise.

    I feel that if the significant backlash continues they will change it to equip/modifications. Everyone understands why Blizzard doesn't want trading (fear of third party sites, blah blah) however I don't really care if a third party economy exists. I know Blizzard does, but sometimes you have to cut your losses. Kind of like removing the RMAH eh?

    Edit: Hell, why not set a worldwide binding timer? Items bind after 48 hours - so then that gives the player 48 items to move an item. That's even a better compromise, not perfect, but better.
  • #5
    Quote from Shad3slayer

    If you dont like farming, I think you missed the genre. ARPG's essentially = farming, even D2 was like that although I do agree it was/ is far superior to D3V.


    The guy just told you he had a great time playing D2 for a pretty long time because of its trading aspect man. What the hell, sometimes.

    @op, better pray some decisions are overturned, else make up your mind whether you want to shell out $40 for a few hours worth of gaming as levelling each class will probably be fun regardless - and you can hope patches will reintroduce stuff that will make you want to come back.
  • #6
    Very well said, Serpenth.

    I'm more in favor of free trade among friends/clan after someone has been on your list/in your clan for 7+ days (to minimize hopping around to facilitate trades - no one would wait 7 days for most trades). But, in reality, I'm not going to get into a debate as to which "middle ground" solution is better. It's just important that Blizzard realizes that the current "solution" is far too extreme and that ANY middle ground solution would be a big improvement over "bind to game" with a two-hour window.

    Quote from elvy

    The guy just told you he had a great time playing D2 for a pretty long time because of its trading aspect man. What the hell, sometimes.


    There's been a lot of "my way is the right way to play the game and if you don't play it like that Blizzard shouldn't care about what you think" sentiments lately. Trading is just the most recent target for people's witch hunts.
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  • #7
    The question is, what didn't you like about farming?

    Because I didn't like farming either, but that was because farming in D2 meant endless Meph/Pindle runs. It's much different in D3, where you're at least playing through entire areas to farm. It's much better, in my opinion, and bind-to-account can make it even better since that allows them to give legendaries better drop rates.

    Similarly, what did you like about trading? Was it solely because that was an easy way for you to get the items you wanted? Or did you actually enjoy the bartering aspect of it? Or something else? It matters because if the fun of trading for you was just getting items more easily than farming for them, then you're not going to get much love in D3X because they are trying to get away from that mentality.

    I know in my personal experience, trading was just a means to an ends - I needed certain items to make certain builds work, and I couldn't find them in the game. If binding means I can actually find them myself, I'm all for it.
  • #8
    Surely you can understand how silly it is that you don't like playing the game, you only enjoy trading things(and just for the hell of it because you don't want to play with those things)? Blizzard is not going to design the game for players who feel that way.
  • #9
    Quote from Zeyk23

    Surely you can understand how silly it is that you don't like playing the game, you only enjoy trading things(and just for the hell of it because you don't want to play with those things)? Blizzard is not going to design the game for players who feel that way.


    Surely you can understand that when someone says "I enjoy trading" that doesn't mean "I hate killing monsters." They're not mutually-exclusive, and most people who trade enjoy farming as well. Trying to paint traders as people who are against killing monsters is so wildly inaccurate I'm not sure what to tell you.

    For us trading is a SUPPLEMENTAL ACTIVITY, not a replacement activity. Get it?

    EDIT
    It's no different from saying all AH users are flippers. It's simply untrue. Flippers are a sub-set of AH users just the same as these people who are into trading so much that they don't bother killing monsters are a sub-set of "all people who make a trade." They're not the same. At all.
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  • #10
    Quote from shaggy

    For us trading is a SUPPLEMENTAL ACTIVITY, not a replacement activity. Get it?

    To be fair, Estereth claimed he spent less than 1% of his time in Diablo 2 on farming. Doesn't sound like trading was just a supplemental activity then.
  • #11
    Quote from Shadout

    To be fair, Estereth claimed he spent less than 1% of his time in Diablo 2 on farming. Doesn't sound like trading was just a supplemental activity then.


    I know, I guess it's my frustration spilling over from other similar topics where "people who trade" are painted as "people who don't want to farm." Something I believe, wholeheartedly, is only a portrayal of a minority of players - the same type of players you'd label as "AH players" in WoW. Just because some guy bought some mats to level a profession off the AH in WoW you wouldn't call him an "AH player." Similarly, just because someone makes a trade in Diablo I wouldn't label them as "wanting to succeed without killing monsters."

    /frustration off :(
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  • #12
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Zeyk23

    Surely you can understand how silly it is that you don't like playing the game, you only enjoy trading things(and just for the hell of it because you don't want to play with those things)? Blizzard is not going to design the game for players who feel that way.


    Surely you can understand that when someone says "I enjoy trading" that doesn't mean "I hate killing monsters." They're not mutually-exclusive, and most people who trade enjoy farming as well. Trying to paint traders as people who are against killing monsters is so wildly inaccurate I'm not sure what to tell you.

    For us trading is a SUPPLEMENTAL ACTIVITY, not a replacement activity. Get it?

    EDIT
    It's no different from saying all AH users are flippers. It's simply untrue. Flippers are a sub-set of AH users just the same as these people who are into trading so much that they don't bother killing monsters are a sub-set of "all people who make a trade." They're not the same. At all.


    The OP said, and I quote:

    i played diablo 2 non-stop till warcraft came out, i was farming items and then trading them for things i actually want - no im actually lying, i didnt like farming, was getting weary and bored pretty fast of it and was just trading 90% of the time


    I know quite a few players who "played" D3 this way as well, who of course were the ones most pissed about losing the AH and Legendaries being BoA.
  • #13
    Quote from Zeyk23

    i played diablo 2 non-stop till warcraft came out, i was farming items and then trading them for things i actually want - no im actually lying, i didnt like farming, was getting weary and bored pretty fast of it and was just trading 90% of the time


    I know quite a few players who "played" D3 this way as well, who of course were the ones most pissed about losing the AH and Legendaries being BoA.


    Yeah, quite a few. Blizzard's opinion on this: "We want people to play the game, not the AH".

    I believe if you don't like farming and want to spend a significant amount ( >50%) of your time trading, RoS will not be a game for you. Even if they lift some of the BoA restrictions. If you're interested in playing an economy, there are many other games out there that lent themselves better for that purpose - especially MMORPGs.

    @shaggy: I understand that it's sometimes annoying when people create certain stereotypes. But we need to realize that Blizzard is pushing the game into a certain direction, and it seems to be that they want everyone to play self-found to a major extent, so there's no point in bending the truth and telling someone who is not interested in farming, but only trading, that RoS will be the game of his dreams. Don't mistake honesty for hostility.
  • #14
    I loved trading uniques in D2 as well, which means I really didn't like the BoA announcement. But then I realized, I was only trading because getting the items I actually wanted ( WF, TM ect) was next to impossible (never saw either drop in about 7 years of playing). If RoS holds true to the self found mantra and the ability to farm gear for yourself, then I won't miss legendary trading.

    Plus, you can still DE legendaries, trade the crafting matts from them as well as all other crafting matts, gems, gold, and rare items.

    All in all, after thinking about it awhile, I'm ok with this change.
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  • #15
    Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
  • #16
    probably gonna make a 'bit' to long post with all the quotes - will try to shorten where i can but dont rly want to plan how to reply in a slick way (few things might repeat)

    Quote from Serpenth

    I'm also ok with binding after enchanting, transmog, socketing, whatever modification.

    its very good way (and actually required considering u can reroll affixes how many times u want) to remove items from the economy and keep it healthy for longer

    Quote from Serpenth

    Everyone understands why Blizzard doesn't want trading (fear of third party sites, blah blah) however I don't really care if a third party economy exists. I know Blizzard does, but sometimes you have to cut your losses. Kind of like removing the RMAH eh?


    i dont think they care about third party, rmah was a try to take part of that market - if something doesnt make playerbase quit the game, they have no reason to go out of their way to shut it down
    what they should more care about (and what is connected to playerbase unrest and potential of leaving the game) are bots and it seems (for now) that gold will still hold value so expect to get 50 invite requests per day at launch

    Quote from elvy

    (...) make up your mind whether you want to shell out $40 for a few hours worth of gaming as levelling each class will probably be fun regardless - and you can hope patches will reintroduce stuff that will make you want to come back.


    40$ isnt an issue, if i dont buy the game it wil be exactly because i dont agree with their decisions and thats gonna be a way to show it
    i cancelled my wow sub quite some time ago not because its significant amount of cash (tho a yearly sub would be enough to buy luxurious dinner for ur gf lal) but because i didnt like the directions it is heading
    i also blatantly pirated sc2 hots cause of their nonchalant treatment of complaints about that abomination called bnet 2.0

    Quote from daisychopper

    (...) but that was because farming in D2 meant endless Meph/Pindle runs. It's much different in D3, where you're at least playing through entire areas to farm. It's much better, in my opinion, and bind-to-account can make it even better since that allows them to give legendaries better drop rates.

    its as you said, couldnt do more than 50 pindle runs, was just getting extremly bored, and youre right, it is better now cause farming and exping in d3 are almost the same things (counting that something good would drop on cow runs was laughable, only pindle/meph for items)
    from all the ppl i played with i was probably the only one not whining that nothing drops form me in d3 because i didnt EXPECT to get items and when something good dropped it was cool cause i couldve easly traded it and it was fine (i dont remember ever getting anything for my main char, that will change in ros - again, by 180 degrees...)

    Quote from daisychopper

    Similarly, what did you like about trading? Was it solely because that was an easy way for you to get the items you wanted? Or did you actually enjoy the bartering aspect of it?

    im jew, trading is in my blood
    and youre wrong here, being a good trader is not easy, if it were, it wouldnt be profitable for ppl who are better at it, i think youre calling it easy way cause of AH (thats getting removed), trading on channels was often annoying (mainly cause of scammers and sometimes time required to find buyer) - that being said, trading on diabloii.net market was purely enjoyable experience
    something that needs to be added - there was no way to find anything useful for pvp in game, you had to trade it
    Quote from Shadout

    To be fair, Estereth claimed he spent less than 1% of his time in Diablo 2 on farming. Doesn't sound like trading was just a supplemental activity then.

    tbh its not that easy to directly translate between d2 and d3, as i mentioned you couldnt farm items for pvp, so trading obviously wasnt a supplement because of that
    id say that its vice-versa for me, farming (which isnt as boring as in d2) as supplement to trading (which i enjoy greatly) and both were towards one goal of having better pvp gear (most ppl farmed items... to farm items)
    i see that you quoted for extreme values i used - while 90% was just and overboard value, 1% i believe was true as it meant mainly pindle/meph, exp i counted separately (in d3 those 2 are more or less the same)
    to give a more exact view what (i think) i was doing in d2:
    45% chit-chatting in chat channels (instead of IRC cause they were better)
    20% farming and exping (pure farm ~1%)
    10% pvp and things around
    25% trading/skimming items

    Quote from Zeyk23

    I know quite a few players who "played" D3 this way as well, who of course were the ones most pissed about losing the AH and Legendaries being BoA.

    it feels like being told that im 'evil' cause i like to trade

    Quote from Bagstone

    I believe if you don't like farming and want to spend a significant amount ( >50%) of your time trading, RoS will not be a game for you. Even if they lift some of the BoA restrictions. If you're interested in playing an economy, there are many other games out there that lent themselves better for that purpose - especially MMORPGs.


    there arent
    there is EVE, that requires immense amount of time to do anything proper in it (besides its sci-fi)
    and theres PoE that somehow just didnt clicked with me...

    Quote from Bleu42

    Plus, you can still DE legendaries, trade the crafting matts from them as well as all other crafting matts, gems, gold, and rare items.

    well... you know this cant rly be called trading:s



    im rly not sure what to think about all this, was skimming other forums and topics a bit and the most reasonable argument that could be found was that 'we can get more shiny loot now' - tbh they choke themselves on good initial reviews of console release and just gonna make drop fountain - it will just end in the same way, everyone gonna find everything needed and either stop or whine again that theres nothing to do
    tho most what i found was like 'ppl who trade gonna have unfair advantage' or ' this game is about finding items not trading' - its just damn mind boggling, his is just non-competitive game (and 99% it will stay like that forever), why do others care if ive put large chunk of my time into finding a good trade for amazing item i wanted instead of sitting and clicking monsters?
    they should just caress their tOOns and think of which items will look better for transmorg purposes than watch others and try to dictate how to play the game...
  • #17
    From my understanding - people saying "This game is about finding items", is simply put exactly that.

    Finding, items. You self namedly claimed that your course of action to get the loot you needed, in lack of farming - was trading. So, if you could instead find your items in reasonable time - or keep refining that build with mystic even so IF you found a decent amount of stuff that allows you to play ONE out of hopefully many builds..

    Then there you go?

    Also, you are not being demonized nor is anyone flaming you to hell because you like trading. People are simply telling you that this game genre doesn't make a very awesome fit with Trading in a major way - due to just how the game actually works.

    Beyond this - i think the cynical approach of "things will just end the same" is flat out wrong. If Blizzard is willing to go to such a length that they will literally just shut down the entire AH because of what it did to the game - then i have no doubts nor qualms to think that they WILL go to the lengths nessecary to see this game be fun and rewarding in the finding aspect. Blizzard is known to iterate things and change things over time.

    Now wether you cope with that change - is your call. But as far as i can tell, still, no-one in this thread literally jumped you and remotely insulted you because you like trading. At most they disagreed with you. Which is not a insult. At all.
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  • #18
    I played D2 from release in 2000 to 2005 very actively, after that every now and then. And the time I spent trading was like 1%..

    Most of the time I just farmed exp with my characters and while doing that I found better and better items.

    In D2 you didn't need that much to do the end game even solo in 8 players. So you could just enter the end game and get good loot while leveling your characters.Trading wasn't very neccessary in that game. In D3 you are stuck in Mp 0 for a long time if you don't use AH.

    Looks like in RoS you don't need to do much trading and AH to succeed in more difficult settings.
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  • #19
    Quote from estereth

    d2 kinda definted trading as an integral part of online arpg, i dare to say that farming in that game was less than 1% of my time spent with game, if yu count in expaing, maybe it was 25%, there was just so much else i could do, now theyre removing last of those things and adding back some semi-proper means to communicate but there just wont be anyone to talk to anyway (im not rly interested in chatting with pvm scrubs about what not dropped for them and how blizzard is ninja nerfing drop rates again)
    playing in 4 ppl parties in d3 also feels more like tea meeting than a real team effort, just not something very exciting...

    i wasnt rly concerned about them removing single player mode to force casuals to rmah but for sure didnt expect 180 turn and forcing everyone else to play single player online only game



    I *do* fully understand your points. I used to trade a lot in D2 too, via games and trade channels and even d2jsp. I found the social aspect, as you say, very fun, the bartering, trying to get an awesome deal out of noobs who have no idea of what an item is worth etc. I have always hated the AH and still think it's the primary reason why D3 failed on every aspect except being financially successful for Blizzard (which is the most important thing I guess, at least for them).

    Further, I was *very* vocal and I HATED how disconnected the game is, and I still can hardly believe a 2012 game shipped with such a bad social system. No group chat, no way to choose games, no clans, no ANYTHING except random matchmaking that's horrible and puts you in random games that are 99% of the time already clear or full of afkers.

    But, I do feel that they're moving in the right way with RoS. If they manage to make the self-found/ playing with friends aspect feel right, it'll be far far better than D3V and maybe even (!) D2. It's the point of these kinds of games - slaying monsters, finding loot and playing and talking with people.

    If you trade 99% of the time, you're doing it wrong. What's the point? You get awesome gear so you can *not play* further? You get upgrades so you can wear them while trading? I mean, really, why don't you just go play the WoW AH? And I'm sure there are plenty more economies for you to explore. They're all the same if you don't even play the game itself.

    EDIT: Forgot to stress out that I always primarily played the game, with Trading every now and then. I.e. bumping a topic on d2jsp every 4 hours, or posting a message to Trade Channel between making games. I rarely sat in the channel and spammed my offers
  • #20
    Quote from estereth

    Quote from daisychopper

    Similarly, what did you like about trading? Was it solely because that was an easy way for you to get the items you wanted? Or did you actually enjoy the bartering aspect of it?

    im jew, trading is in my blood
    and youre wrong here, being a good trader is not easy, if it were, it wouldnt be profitable for ppl who are better at it, i think youre calling it easy way cause of AH (thats getting removed), trading on channels was often annoying (mainly cause of scammers and sometimes time required to find buyer) - that being said, trading on diabloii.net market was purely enjoyable experience
    something that needs to be added - there was no way to find anything useful for pvp in game, you had to trade it


    I did not say trading was easy, I asked you if you thought it was easy. I was getting at your personal motivation for wanting trading to be an option.

    Either way, they are severely limiting trading because it's the only way they can give legendaries a reasonable drop rate while still making players actually play the game to get them. Same reason they have Bind on Pickup in WoW - otherwise, people who played the game a lot would just farm out dungeons and players could gear up without ever actually playing the content.

    I'm not trying to tell you trading is the wrong way to play the game or anything like that - but it has to be one or the other, and trading was what they decided to sacrifice. Which I happen to support, since I like getting my items from monsters, not pre-teens. So at the end of the day I'd say no, there's not much incentive for you to play RoS. I can appreciate your frustration, but those are the breaks some times. There are plenty of other games out there.
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