Should everything be wiped at the start of RoS?

Poll: Should everything be wiped at the start of RoS?

RoS

Should everything be wiped at the start of RoS? - Single Choice

  • Undecided 0%
  • Neutral 6.8%
  • No 62.9%
  • Yes 30.3%
  • #61
    Absolutely not. If you want a fresh start, go delete your characters.

    Quote from speaker1264

    I honestly think it should. I have a paragon 100 myself, all classes level 60, a couple hardcore, and almost a billion gold, but I really dislike the idea of people starting with an advantage over other players, and people who will buy a trillion gold right before the AH goes down or something. I would like the game to be fresh, without all the old legendaries being mixed with the new ones, making things more confusing and such.

    I dunno, it would just be cool to have everyone starting over at the same time, rushing to get to the top, everyone being equal again, and this time without an AH, no pay to win, and hopefully no duping.


    - I have 50 Million gold right now. No shady AH dealings. I invested the majority of what I looted into gems and crafts.
    - Old legendaries mixed in with the new ones is a bit of a stretch considering how much stats are getting boosted
    - You want to start fresh, but suggest that all other players should be dictated to as well.
    - We already had a shot to start at the same time last May
    - Rushing to the top... as if D3 isn't already about efficiency at any stage of the game.
    - If you want to see who is fastest, check the paragon levels once the new system is in place
    - We're not equal. I craft my own gear and gems. I'm baseline poor. I like it, gems and gold have a distinct value for me.
    - I didn't use the AH to an extent that it ruined my gameplay, and didn't use the RMAH at all.
    - The RoS will absolutely still be P2W
    - I didn't dupe my gear into existence.

    For all I care, you can start fresh using any means you want, but don't pull me into your shenanigans. There are ways to create ladder mode without attempting to cut the playerbase in half, and pissing off one of those two halves to boot. People are just too restricted with their critical thinking skills to realize we don't need to emulate a system from more than a decade ago to come up with different approaches to ladder.
    Of all things important in Online Gaming, there is one thing no game developer can "fix" - it's community.
  • #62
    Quote from Ferret

    - The RoS will absolutely still be P2W


    Is that Pay to Win or Play to Win? :P

    Quote from Ferret

    People are just too restricted with their critical thinking skills to realize we don't need to emulate a system from more than a decade ago to come up with different approaches to ladder.


    The ironic part about your statement is that they (you?) said the same thing about the AH. I don't have to tell you how that turned out.
  • #63
    Quote from Bleu42

    Quote from ruksak

    No. Don't punish me because they couldn't figure out how to a make a damn Diablo game over the course of 10+ years. I'm glad they're figuring it out and all......but I don't want to view the last 1 1/2 years (by launch it will be 2) as a total waste.

    I don't mind that they're rendering D3 1.08 items obsolete....good riddance I say. But my progress, no.

    There are essentially 3 types of players that will play RoS.
    1) People that never played D3 before.
    2) People that quit D3 long ago and came back for RoS.
    3) People that stuck with it.

    If they did a total wipe on the grounds that it isn't fair to players whom didn't stick with it, what does that say to players that did put in the time and support? They would be effectively stating that RoS IS Diablo III 1.0 and the last (2) years has, in fact, been the longest, largest BETA phase in the history of gaming.

    Not cool. I did quit 4 times for an average of 6 weeks each time, but I always came back, choosing D3 over a number of other choices.


    Sorry Ruksak I just have to yell at you again, the development for D3 was roughly 6.5 years, not a decade. Still a long time (they had to take a year off to help with SC2) but facts matter.


    Actually, it could be successfully argued that it was anywhere between 6 and 12. Though the original ideas were essentially scrapped, D3 was a project put into work about 12 years ago.


    Semantics really. Point being, it took them a LONG time to make a BETA game. I don't say that sarcastically. I mean that toward my previous post. In regard to IF they did a hard reset, it would effectively render what we call 'D3 Vanilla' as a 2 year long, paid BETA phase.
  • #64
    if they implement ladders both groups get what they want
    (with new season right at release of ROS)
    and u can play ladder where everyone start from scratch
    or non ladder where u can keep your vanilla stuff

    i spend thousand of hours playing this game and completely removing everything i put in to it would be stab in the heart
    but i don't mind starting playing ladder from scratch if my other chars are still in non ladder with all perks that those thousands of hours got me
  • #65
    Quote from ruksak

    In regard to IF they did a hard reset, it would effectively render what we call 'D3 Vanilla' as a 2 year long, paid BETA phase.


    I usually don't agree with statements like this, but that's precisely how I'd, personally, feel. If anything, I should get some kind of bonus for sticking it out through the tough times as opposed to the people who quit. To me the "wipe everything" stance is that of someone who is upset that some of us didn't quit, that we stuck to it even though the game wasn't perfect... and now we'll have 50 more Paragon 2.0 levels or something. Such a massive advantage... we'll be killing faster and getting new loot faster.

    Yeah, well, loyal customers SHOULD be rewarded and people who quit because the game sucked should have to live by those choices too.

    I'm truly shocked that 33% of the responses to this poll are Yes/Undecided. This should be a poll where 90%+ of the responses should be No, and emphatically so. Results like this make me wonder about the validity of any polls ... because it almost makes me feel like 33% of the people (who voted in this poll) are completely delusional or so overcome by jealousy that they cannot think clearly.
    p450 :: 92.2k EK :: 2.54m TK
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  • #66
    ^^I voted 'Yes' because, even though I stuck with the game, I'm a troll.
  • #67
    Quote from shaggy
    I'm truly shocked that 33% of the responses to this poll are Yes/Undecided. This should be a poll where 90%+ of the responses should be No, and emphatically so. Results like this make me wonder about the validity of any polls ... because it almost makes me feel like 33% of the people (who voted in this poll) are completely delusional or so overcome by jealousy that they cannot think clearly.


    Wow. Just wow. "Poll didn't turn out the way I wanted? Clearly, people must be delusional or jealous."

    That is exactly the reason why democracy sometimes doesn't work - when people do not accept the choice and/or opinion of others. Instead of asking "why did you vote differently than me", you just go ahead and say it's "invalid", and we are "delusional" and "jealous". Great. You do realize that's dangerously close to the behavior we witnessed in a recent other thread... oh well. Despite you not asking for the reason why I voted "yes", I'll start one last attempt to explain my concern.

    It's similar to the argument of those who didn't like the AH: yes, they could ignore it. But since people had the AH to improve their gear, drop rates had to be lowered significantly, ultimately affecting everyone - even those who decided to not use the AH. Similarly, I can decide to delete my character and start from scratch. But it does not change the overall design of the game. In fact, Blizzard knows that the overwhelming majority of people will not delete their character, but instead try to transfer as much as possible of their level 60 wealth to level 70. Therefore, prices for everything that has a "price tag" will keep in mind that players have accumulated a significant amount of gold. An example for this is already in the game: the high cost for the marquise gem crafting and removal was an attempt to remove money from the economy. As a result, there are lots of players who despite playing for many hundreds of hours couldn't afford a marquise gem.

    Someone mentioned that gold costs don't matter in RoS, but it comes down to having the materials. Okay, but if it's really just the materials, why have gold cost at all? If gold cost should not be the limiting factor for anyone, remove it completely. Furthermore, there will be services that need gold and gold only, like gem removal, upgrading the Mystic, repair cost, and so on. Gold will still have a purpose. Someone mentioned that the gold costs in RoS will be comparatively low. Yeah, but "relatively low", what does that mean? Even if it's only 100k for a craft (and the costs I've seen are even higher) that limits the amount of items some people can craft already significantly. We are very well aware, however, that there are people with multiple billions of gold. It is impossible to create a system that allows for the average Joe to pay their repair bills, upgrade gems, and craft their gear, while at the same time reducing the 20 billion gold stash of the high-end players.

    While at some point money becomes a serious issue for many players, there will be people who essentially never have to worry at all about gold in RoS. Ever. That is not a "well-deserved head start" because they played 1000 hours more in D3 vanilla. That's an "out of jail" card with unlimited number of uses and no expiration date. It's not about giving people what they deserve.

    Do some people deserve to be excluded from RoS features that require large amounts of money just because they didn't find a 2 billion item? How is that one lucky item a valid argument for creating a two-tiered player base? "Did you get that awesome 5th stash page?" - "Nope, bad luck with loot RNG in D3 vanilla." Really?

    I took back my initial argument about paragon after a lack of coffee led me into a serious maths mistake. So, technically I should change my vote, because I'm not for a reset of everything. As I previously mentioned in this thread, I completely agree that players should get a head start if they invested a significant amount of time. But when I read posts that are so dismissive about other people opinions, I'm happy to support the minority.
  • #68
    No, stupid idea.
  • #69
    No because it's not required and it's unrealistic. As others have said, a ladder accomplishes this.

    In terms of hoarded items, I've already got rid of mine before everyone catches on that they will be useless in RoS. I got rid of all of my gems, tomes, and crafting mats this morning.

    As far as Paragon and Gold where those are things people earned while playing. Sure some people bought it on the RMAH but people will always buy third party gold w/o an AH.

    Just because Vanilla D3 is subpar, doesn't mean peoples accomplishments should be reset. There are people who enjoy playing (such as myself, on and off) and there's no reason to reset progress. Just the idea of resetting progress makes it seem like vanilla was irrelevant. It's still a part of the game whether it meets expectations or not.

    There's things to log on and do. If one doesn't feel compelled to do so then fine, wait for the expansion. However people do enjoy playing now and their experiences and accomplishments in terms of paragon and achievements should not be disregarded.
  • #70
    Quote from Bagstone

    Do some people deserve to be excluded from RoS features that require large amounts of money just because they didn't find a 2 billion item? How is that one lucky item a valid argument for creating a two-tiered player base? "Did you get that awesome 5th stash page?" - "Nope, bad luck with loot RNG in D3 vanilla." Really?


    If this scenario actually existed a logical person would say "Blizzard, you probably should lower the cost on this item" and not say "Well, only rich people can afford it so we should take everything away from everyone."

    The former is a reasonable, thoughtful, request that doesn't massively infringe on the fact that millions of people have TWO YEARS invested in D3C. The latter is almost akin to saying "well if we just destroy all money and possessions it will reset poverty!" Great... maybe you're right... but don't you see how such radical solutions to such minor problems are, as a whole, very bad for the community?

    Is it really such a bad thing that some guy might have "infinite gold" in RoS because he has more from D3C than he'll ever need? Is that such a problem that we have to shit all over all the small guys (like you and me) who don't have that and who ultimately will feel the effects of a full wipe much more than a guy who is going to play 12 hours/day 7 days/week until he has everything he could possibly want anyway?

    Don't you see how you're fighting a fight you simply cannot win? There are people out there who, by virtue of the fact that they play the game way more than you ever will, are going to always have more shit than you do no matter how frequently you "reset" things. All that "resetting" the game does is serve to piss people like me off who don't have nearly as much time as those people you're trying to punish.
    p450 :: 92.2k EK :: 2.54m TK
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  • #71
    If you think the game should be reset then you are vastly overestimating the impact that current endgame characters will have in RoS. All the gear, gems, materials, etc that you have on hand are completely worthless, easily replaced within days of launch. Sure, gold will carry over, but clearing a bounty at Torment 1 gives you 357,000 gold. Probably way more at the later Torment levels, and they only take a few minutes each, so you're pulling in millions of gold per hour. So no matter how many billions of gold they bring in, it's just a drop in the bucket in the long run. And as for paragon exp, the absolute maximum you can possibly get at launch is PL376, which for players who play that much is not going to be that high at the new endgame exp rates.

    In any case a reset will never, ever happen. 100% impossible. Besides, if Ladders get added then the point is moot. People who really want a pure experience will have their answer.
  • #72
    Quote from Bagstone


    While at some point money becomes a serious issue for many players, there will be people who essentially never have to worry at all about gold in RoS. Ever. That is not a "well-deserved head start" because they played 1000 hours more in D3 vanilla.


    Of course it is a well deserved "headstart". They put in the time. They deserve to have more than those who did not put in the time. Specially if it's 1000 hours, cmon man. That's like 3 hours a day every day since release.

    Also, when we are talking about headstarts, the gold will not have a big influence on how fast they level or how lucky they are at finding gear at lvl 70, and those will be the two main deciding factors for how fast you will race up the ladder in RoS. not how much gold you make. You cant buy XP with gold.

    Also what Zeyk said. Lvl 60 items will be pretty much obsolete by lvl 70.

    All in all you still look as jelly as back in the AH-whining days.
  • #73
    i seen stream of guy that was doing torment 6(highest difficulty) and mobs were dropping 30-50k gold per pile
    he made 70m in 2hrs only from looting gold
    sure we wont be able to do that so soon after release since he was using couple overpowered/unbalanced items/stats
  • #74
    Gotta take into account "who" is voting as well. Some people interested in Ladder, some not so much. And obviously for the average Joe who feels is waaay behind the more hardcore dedicated players (or botters? :P) a "fresh start" is quite interesting.

    I'm actually more surprised there aren't more Yes votes.

    Then again, makes sense. Even if people are not a "CEO that makes 100 million dollars/year" they don't wanna see what they have achieved thus far (even if it's as little as a Paragon 10 character that can do MP3) simply thrown out of the window and everyone back at ground zero.
  • #76
    Quote from Twoflower

    Of course it is a well deserved "headstart". They put in the time. They deserve to have more than those who did not put in the time. Specially if it's 1000 hours, cmon man. That's like 3 hours a day every day since release.


    I was about to say that it might be ok to give someone a head start who achieved his status by playing the game. I see no reason at all to reward those invested oh so much time not playing Diablo but the AH, especially over those guys who would have liked Diablo but couldn't stand it because the monster killing aspect was only a minor nuisance in the game.

    But apparently..

    All in all you still look as jelly as back in the AH-whining days.


    .. you're deaf and ignorant in that regard.. ;)


    ps.Now that I read this again, I think, I've made a case for keeping plvls and reseting gold. If what others say about the gold drops holds true, than we might even get that.
  • #77
    Quote from Solmyr77


    .. you're deaf and ignorant in that regard.. ;)


    Yeah I still think the Ah should stay. Probably in a minority at this point.

    On december 23th, my boring office job here is over and I wont have too much time to browse the net any more. You'll probably not have to put up with me any more then. I dont plan on buying RoS and am mainly here cause of the boredom here at the office.

    But removing the AH and BoA items are really the last nail in the coffin. IMO D3 was great before 1.03.
  • #78
    One of the streamers has gone through 1,2 billion gold in 3 days. But that is with a 20% increase for every re-enchant and rings and gems started out at 1 million each. So for him materials haven't been the deciding factor so far, gold costs is ofc one of those typical things that get adjusted during beta so it is very hard to draw conclusions from this.

    While I think those that have been playing a lot should get some head start, I am not sure several billions gold and 250-300 plvls are a reasonable reward though.

    I would have preferred some kind of progressively reduced benefit for both. Something like full XP for 1st char, 1/2 for 2nd and 1/4 and so on.
    Since gold is sold for cash I can't see that happening for gold but it would have made sense too.

    Balancing craft cost and enchant cost will be tricky otherwise. Guess one solution could be to have high costs at release and once most have burned through their gold you can reduce it.

    Whatever they do or don't do people will not be satisfied though.
  • #79
    I'm not bothered either way. A wipe would be nice, but I don't care that they won't (which is the obvious choice).

    When RoS hits, I'll be wiping all my characters and starting all of them off at level 1 again. All gear worn and stored up will be sold/traded off and I'll start with a whole new batch of level 1s. I love levelling the characters up and it'll be the best way to learn the new skills, enjoy the game again and experience the loot system as it should be. I've done it once before and I'll do it again.

    Only reason I'm waiting until RoS before deleting my characters is because I want to make sure the time I've invested into Paragon levels is carried over.
    "It takes a man with real heart...to make beauty out of the stuff that makes us weep." - Clive Barker
  • #80
    I would be fine with it either way really. When I start up again at RoS I'm going to scrap all my old gear and start from scratch. I'll just build up gear with a new character and go from there.
  • #81
    I think the discussion is moot: having the real money auction house in the game (or more specific, letting people have an in-game account balance of real money) subjects Blizzard to some banking laws and they can't just wipe the server as a consequence, even if you agreed to it possibly happening in the terms of agreement. Possibly a reason why the auction house is being removed altogether as well.
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