I honestly think it should. I have a paragon 100 myself, all classes level 60, a couple hardcore, and almost a billion gold, but I really dislike the idea of people starting with an advantage over other players, and people who will buy a trillion gold right before the AH goes down or something. I would like the game to be fresh, without all the old legendaries being mixed with the new ones, making things more confusing and such.
I dunno, it would just be cool to have everyone starting over at the same time, rushing to get to the top, everyone being equal again, and this time without an AH, no pay to win, and hopefully no duping.
Voted for yes. Gear and materials are kind of wiped anyways because even OP 60 gear will be irrelevant.
However, like you said, quite a few people will have billions of gold while many other people will have close to nothing - can't see how Blizzard wants to strike a balance.
Also, if we consider getting to paragon 800 and maxing out all paragon traits as one of the endgame goals, the 10x p100 players have already completed about 50% of the endgame. I'm fairly concerned about the disparity here.
Also, think of it this way OP;
ALL existing gear will be worthless once we hit 70. Sure some might help us level, but that will go by fast. So there's your gear reset.
Crafting mats / new gem tiers will still need to be farmed to make use of the gold for enchanting / blacksmithing.
The only real 'advantage' I see is someone having higher paragon levels for more Ppoints. To put it bluntly, so what? You can't (as it stands right now) trade legendaries / sets, and there's no AH to fight over, so does it REALLY effect your fun playing a game that someone has a couple extra points to spend?
I voted no because all-in-all, it's really not going to matter a little while after launch.
The thread isn't asking whether you want a ladder, that is another discussion altogether. This is only for if you would like a reset at the start of the expansion.
EVERYTHING becomes obsolete during the leveling process to 70 except Gold.
Except gold, AND paragon, and some items will still be good such as leoric's and hellfire rings on followers. I just want the feeling of a real reset, and rushing to the top against everyone else, but not necessarily scheduled ladder resets.
I voted as emphatic a Hell No as I possibly could.
I've been a firm enemy of Auction Houses for over a year and half, and I hate what it's done not just to the game but to peoples' attitudes in-game. That being said, as Bleu pointed out, much of what's being packed into both Reaper of Souls as well as the pre-expansion Patch 2.0.1 are going to put everyone on even ground. Sure, people with over a million DPS will have a leg up, doesn't mean even they won't be able to find upgrades. That's the whole point. Gear is taking a huge enough leap forward that even people who practically broke the game for themselves with Auction House use will be finding gear, along with the "poor and destitute".
Voted for yes. Gear and materials are kind of wiped anyways because even OP 60 gear will be irrelevant.
However, like you said, quite a few people will have billions of gold while many other people will have close to nothing - can't see how Blizzard wants to strike a balance.
Also, if we consider getting to paragon 800 and maxing out all paragon traits as one of the endgame goals, the 10x p100 players have already completed about 50% of the endgame. I'm fairly concerned about the disparity here.
Bagstone, with all due respect, I expected a smarter answer out of you.
People who grinded enough XP for long enough to get 10 Paragon Level 100 characters hardly compares to the disparity in time and effort between a self-found player struggling for DPS and an AH user who crests 100k DPS before they hit 2500 elite kills. Got a guy on my friends list who's not only done that (don't even think he's passed 150 hours total), including somehow not killing Inferno Belial. A person who starts Reaper of Souls with that much Paragon XP EARNED the Paragon Points they start with, and more power to them. Honestly, saying they've already completed 50% of endgame? Please...given the Paragon XP Curve estimate we're looking at, and the fact that Paragon 1000s in the beta are being quoted as starting at around Sharagon Level 376? They've got a pretty long road ahead even before they cap their 3 Alternate Paragon Tabs at Plvl 800.
And as for billions of gold being unfair, and Blizzard needing to strike a balance? Let me tell you all something...
I remember the huge "gold dupe bug" of Patch 1.0.8. And I remember people emphatically railing against Blizzard DEMANDING that EVERYONE in the community get full account wipes in order to make the game "fair." Luckily, Blizzard approached things with a cool head and decided that it would be better to punish the people who got gold unfairly, rather than blanket punish everyone like children, when there were very likely people who earned their gold legitimately, who didn't deserve to get their progress unfairly taken away because a small handful of jerks decided to exploit the game.
Right now, my account is sitting on 46.5 million in Softcore gold...not a single coin of that is from the AH. It's ALL from VENDING and PICKUPS and Quest Rewards (as meager as some may be). And if my account gets wiped, because people aren't happy with others having an "unfair advantage," I'm going to be seriously aggravated.
Besides...people saving up billions right now, for the expansion...how much of an advantage will gold really be? Enchanting, Haedrig crafting, gem crafting, Transmog, maybe Paragon Points...that's about all that gold will be useful for. It goes back to being just a resource. Sure, right now, you can use billions to buy who sets of MP10 Inferno facerolling gear. But that won't be possible in Reaper of Souls.
Well, basically people who want a hard reset are the people who are happy for Ladders... and the ones who don't want Ladder, don't want a hard reset either. Anyway, hard reset outside of ladder just isn't happening. There would be far too huge a shitstorm, even worse than turning off AH's
Shad3slayer, thank you for clarifying your point...I was about to say...if Ladders get implemented, that would be probably the biggest reason for there NOT to be a full community account wipe, as no matter how much gold or Paragon XP people have stashed away come the expansion will just be starting from scratch when a new Ladder kicks up. Granted, not everyone plays Ladders, but the people who want a fresh start (and repeated fresh starts) get it in Ladder competition.
I won't say this is a silly idea, but I sincerely hope, in my deepest heart of hearts...down in the cochles of my heart, maybe the sub-cochular areas...that this doesn't become a popular idea.
Keep in mind...the expansion IS a wipe. The game is making about as grand a fresh start as it can get, as even people who used the AH frequently have stuff to strive for. :-)
I honestly think it should. I have a paragon 100 myself, all classes level 60, a couple hardcore, and almost a billion gold, but I really dislike the idea of people starting with an advantage over other players, and people who will buy a trillion gold right before the AH goes down or something. I would like the game to be fresh, without all the old legendaries being mixed with the new ones, making things more confusing and such.
I dunno, it would just be cool to have everyone starting over at the same time, rushing to get to the top, everyone being equal again, and this time without an AH, no pay to win, and hopefully no duping.
Be sure to explain your choice, thanks.
In regard to your post, OP...even though you don't outright say you used the Auction House, chances are you got close to a billion gold by using it.
And with all due respect (in case my post came out harshly, I don't mean it to), I do acknowledge and respect your position on wanting everyone on even ground.
I don't know where your gold came from...if you paid real money for it, or simply amassed it from sales...however, if you're really concerned about starting as fresh as you can, why not just sorta "launder" the gold? Give bits and pieces of it away to noobs who could use a little "stimulus package"? ;-)
As for your gear, I also don't know what that looks like, or how much DPS you're pushing around...but one thing we need to keep in mind here...one word...Crusader.
No one will be starting Reaper of Souls with a leveled up Crusader. Everyone will be starting Crusaders at level 1. Sure, If a person has a really powerful Strength Hellfire Ring, leveling that Crusader will take a bit less time, but creating a Crusader will definitely be a fresh start for a lot of people. Billions of gold won't have as much bearing on a Level 1 character. Only Paragon Points might, and most people don't have Paragon 1000s to make their new Crusaders godly right out of the gate. It's one of the upsides to the "Paragon Points get allocated in one of each of the four tabs every four levels" aspect. Granted, that means allocating certain stats over others isn't as much of a trade-off or a free choice...but I still support it.
So please don't worry too heavily about everyone not starting fresh...my guess is it'll certainly feel pretty fresh when the updates start coming.
Everything you have now will be obsolete by lvl 65.
Gold will be worthless.
Ladder will introduce a full reset for those who want it.
But most importantly : If they reset everything, why should people play at all from now till RoS release ? That would not make sense from a business point of view.
Voted "i dont care" cause IF I buy RoS, I'll be playing ladder anyway.
Voted for yes. Gear and materials are kind of wiped anyways because even OP 60 gear will be irrelevant.
However, like you said, quite a few people will have billions of gold while many other people will have close to nothing - can't see how Blizzard wants to strike a balance.
Also, if we consider getting to paragon 800 and maxing out all paragon traits as one of the endgame goals, the 10x p100 players have already completed about 50% of the endgame. I'm fairly concerned about the disparity here.
Bagstone, with all due respect, I expected a smarter answer out of you.
Well, what can I say... you're right. Thanks for pointing this out - totally forgot the XP curve; 10x p100 is "just" 50% of getting to ~p450. Miles away from p800 - I stand corrected. I shouldn't do any maths in my head before 9am and without coffee...
But in terms of money, my opinion still stands. Seeing that removing a marquise gem is still 5m, I just don't know how this will play out in RoS. Will money be inflationary as well, and every bounty will yield a million gold? Then it could work, but I don't like these insanely high numbers (unless it were my real bank account). Or is money dropping in rates like now? Then not only self-found people but many players that don't have > 100m will have to grind a looooong time to get all the money necessary for crafting, enchanting, and unsocketing. Or buy one billion before the AH goes down and you'll have never money issues in RoS. See me point? Like I said, it's an opinion. I'm fine with certain people having a head start in RoS. In fact, people who have played >2000 hours should have a head start. But a head start does not mean that for years to come, you should never have money issues. On the other hand, if you were to balance the game such that even billionaires will run out of money, how is average Joe ever gonna afford everything in RoS?
I'm curious where the sentiment is coming from that an expansion pack should include a hard reset for the entire game. That makes zero sense; people have been working hard and playing Diablo since launch, why on earth should they lose all that they've gotten. because new content is added? Should we wipe RoS as well once xpac #2 comes around? Of course not.
The playing field was 'leveled' at D3's launch. Nothing is stopping you, op, from acquiring everything that you're so worried everyone else will have at launch.
Voted for yes. Gear and materials are kind of wiped anyways because even OP 60 gear will be irrelevant.
However, like you said, quite a few people will have billions of gold while many other people will have close to nothing - can't see how Blizzard wants to strike a balance.
Also, if we consider getting to paragon 800 and maxing out all paragon traits as one of the endgame goals, the 10x p100 players have already completed about 50% of the endgame. I'm fairly concerned about the disparity here.
Bagstone, with all due respect, I expected a smarter answer out of you.
Well, what can I say... you're right. Thanks for pointing this out - totally forgot the XP curve; 10x p100 is "just" 50% of getting to ~p450. Miles away from p800 - I stand corrected. I shouldn't do any maths in my head before 9am and without coffee...
But in terms of money, my opinion still stands. Seeing that removing a marquise gem is still 5m, I just don't know how this will play out in RoS. Will money be inflationary as well, and every bounty will yield a million gold? Then it could work, but I don't like these insanely high numbers (unless it were my real bank account). Or is money dropping in rates like now? Then not only self-found people but many players that don't have > 100m will have to grind a looooong time to get all the money necessary for crafting, enchanting, and unsocketing. Or buy one billion before the AH goes down and you'll have never money issues in RoS. See me point? Like I said, it's an opinion. I'm fine with certain people having a head start in RoS. In fact, people who have played >2000 hours should have a head start. But a head start does not mean that for years to come, you should never have money issues. On the other hand, if you were to balance the game such that even billionaires will run out of money, how is average Joe ever gonna afford everything in RoS?
From what I saw at Blizzcon and from what I've seen in the beta, all crafting costs have been dramatically reduced, which of course is because they are trying to promote self found. Will a ton of people have gold to spend for a long time? Yes. You know what they DON'T have, and neither does anyone else? The rest of ALL the crafting materials needed to utilize said gold. We're still going to have to farm new legendaries to salvage into legendary material needed. Marquise gems drop in RoS, so everyone will be on the same field when it comes to farming gems / combining to use in crafting. Everyone still has to level up their artisans using the new dropped crafting materials in RoS.
What I'm saying is, Blizzard is making gold a relatively non-issue with the addition of bounties and adventure mode. The advantage the people with billions will have is not very much. No reason to flip out =P
Fair point. Maybe I was too much driven by the 5m unsocket cost for marquise gems (which does not require any other materials). Well, if it's like you said, that gold will become a minor factor and it's more about the materials, so be it. But if gold should not be the determining factor, why is it still in the game then? ;-)
Btw, crafting costs were >100k for a rare 61 item, afaik. It's not that cheap considering you probably need to craft a lot to get a good drop.
And like I said in my post - people who invested lots of time should definitely get a head start, so although I voted for "reset" right now I don't want an entire reset. My only concern is imbalance. But well, let's see. If there'll be ladder, there should be less complaints about endgame, thus resolving most of my issues... but it's not the question of this topic.
Fair point. Maybe I was too much driven by the 5m unsocket cost for marquise gems (which does not require any other materials). Well, if it's like you said, that gold will become a minor factor and it's more about the materials, so be it. But if gold should not be the determining factor, why is it still in the game then? ;-)
Btw, crafting costs were >100k for a rare 61 item, afaik. It's not that cheap considering you probably need to craft a lot to get a good drop.
And like I said in my post - people who invested lots of time should definitely get a head start, so although I voted for "reset" right now I don't want an entire reset. My only concern is imbalance. But well, let's see. If there'll be ladder, there should be less complaints about endgame, thus resolving most of my issues... but it's not the question of this topic.
If memory servers me right, going off just what I saw at level 33 at Blizzcon, completing one bounty (out of 5 per act) gave me roughly ~ 140k gold. No idea if that's actually a max level value, but we should see soon enough.
If they implement seasonal ladders then i don't mind them wiping players who decide to play ladder... I will play non ladder. I don't think that's how it will be though.
Ladder is teh shizzle. I dont understand what ppl will play non-ladder.
The people who don't want to feel like leveling at a slower pace than others are "failing" maybe?
Honestly, I'd be willing to bet that people playing ladders for over a decade is where all this "efficiency" nonsense started. People thinking that leveling and gearing at lightspeed is suddenly the best course. Yeah...when you're on a time-limit and HAVE TO get to the top the fastest in order to "win," then yes, efficiency is totally understood. However, Diablo is the type of game for people of all types, and if people want to go slow, take in the sights, enjoy the simple day to day of sifting through treasures to feel like they're maximizing gear or build utility, that's where they see the enjoyment. Ladder is basically PvE but with a competitive element. I don't play Diablo games to compete against others, at least not directly.
So...I'm a people that will play non-ladder...if you want one example, :-)
Fair point. Maybe I was too much driven by the 5m unsocket cost for marquise gems (which does not require any other materials). Well, if it's like you said, that gold will become a minor factor and it's more about the materials, so be it. But if gold should not be the determining factor, why is it still in the game then? ;-)
Btw, crafting costs were >100k for a rare 61 item, afaik. It's not that cheap considering you probably need to craft a lot to get a good drop.
And like I said in my post - people who invested lots of time should definitely get a head start, so although I voted for "reset" right now I don't want an entire reset. My only concern is imbalance. But well, let's see. If there'll be ladder, there should be less complaints about endgame, thus resolving most of my issues... but it's not the question of this topic.
If memory servers me right, going off just what I saw at level 33 at Blizzcon, completing one bounty (out of 5 per act) gave me roughly ~ 140k gold. No idea if that's actually a max level value, but we should see soon enough.
Yeah, I think they're going to adjust crafting costs and Quest Rewards as well to properly balance gold income with gold sinks. I mean, right now, there's a pretty steep uptick in how much gem upgrades cost when you hit certain tiers. Before that, it's dirt cheap, but once you hit that certain point, it goes up big time. Obviously, this has a lot to do with the AH, and how Blizzard wanted us to use it...mainly because (and I don't mean to open a can of worms here) popularity of trading in the past inspired the AH's creation in the first place. Blizzard thought the AH's would be something the bulk of the community would want. Turns out, a seemingly perfect system like that ended up being a major thorn in the game's side, and brought it too far from the where it should've been....as well as causing the game to require adjustments in other areas to accommodate it, which held back the people who didn't want to use it, thus making most peoples' experiences uncomfortable in some way or another.
Incidentally, even with the amount of gold I have on hand, I still haven't crafted a single Marquise. I don't feel bad about that, and I'm not "jealous" of others running around dripping with Marquises...but at the same time, there are people who have done mostly item crafting, who may not see 20million gold, or the total gems and Tomes for quite a while yet.
So yeah, before release, I'm sure some fine-tuning will happen to balance it all out.
^ I think you vastly overestimate the competitive component of Ladders. I believe the people who actually play it to "be on top" are a minority and that most people like it due to starting fresh, which is for many the most fun period in Diablo and similar games. If you play NL and get geared, you stop finding upgrades, or get them very very rarely at some point... And then the game turns into a long grind with a very low chance of improving your character, which becomes boring. Ladders are fun for this reason - you are a newbie again and have to gear from scratch, maybe make more classes and gear each of them, and it never loses its longevity due to periodic resets. You can easily skip a season or 2 and then when you feel like playing dive into the next ladder season and not be behind anyone else. I just don't see how people don't like this.
You make a valid point.
However, I guess for me, enjoying Ladders simply for the act of starting over is something someone used to be able to do on their own, if they wanted. D2 didn't really need something to get people to start over, as if you wanted to make a new build in endgame, it was pretty hard without Akara's help (what I've read of Tokens of Absolution is pretty scary), so the easier way to do it was just to start over. You're right that most people probably didn't care necessarily about winning ladders, but if that's the case...why bother competing in a ladder then if all you want is to have a reason to start over? That's what I'm saying...winning may not have been the objective, but people still wanted to start over so they could succeed and say, "yeah, I did X and Y and Z, and I shot up to #4 in only a week."
Diablo 3, on the other hand, could absolutely use Ladders far more because characters have a lot more longevity. Since people can switch skills in and out at their leisure, people don't need to start over and reroll even a quarter as often as they were in D2. Meaning, people NEED to feel like they can start over from scratch in D3, and see how their leveling pans out. They need to be able to have a reason to go back to early levels and enjoy, as most of the time, they hit endgame and never look back. I don't plan to participate, but I'm very glad that Ladders look like a very real possibility coming soon. I mean, you say the game turns into just a long grind, which gets boring, not for me...given the variety of loot that will be appearing in the expansion, I'll likely be gathering a ton of it up and trying out all manner of builds with tons of sidegrade and skill combinations. That's where the fun will be for me. But like I said, I don't want to compete, or feel like if I'm not leveling fast enough, I'm "not doing as well" as someone else.
There are enough numeric ways to judge someone in this game/community, and enough emphasis on "efficiency". At least with Ladders, people can feel efficient THERE, as opposed to imposing a need for efficiency on people who just feel like casually farming or grinding XP or strengthening their characters.
No. Don't punish me because they couldn't figure out how to a make a damn Diablo game over the course of 10+ years. I'm glad they're figuring it out and all......but I don't want to view the last 1 1/2 years (by launch it will be 2) as a total waste.
I don't mind that they're rendering D3 1.08 items obsolete....good riddance I say. But my progress, no.
There are essentially 3 types of players that will play RoS.
1) People that never played D3 before.
2) People that quit D3 long ago and came back for RoS.
3) People that stuck with it.
If they did a total wipe on the grounds that it isn't fair to players whom didn't stick with it, what does that say to players that did put in the time and support? They would be effectively stating that RoS IS Diablo III 1.0 and the last (2) years has, in fact, been the longest, largest BETA phase in the history of gaming.
Not cool. I did quit 4 times for an average of 6 weeks each time, but I always came back, choosing D3 over a number of other choices.
I dunno, it would just be cool to have everyone starting over at the same time, rushing to get to the top, everyone being equal again, and this time without an AH, no pay to win, and hopefully no duping.
Be sure to explain your choice, thanks.
However, like you said, quite a few people will have billions of gold while many other people will have close to nothing - can't see how Blizzard wants to strike a balance.
Also, if we consider getting to paragon 800 and maxing out all paragon traits as one of the endgame goals, the 10x p100 players have already completed about 50% of the endgame. I'm fairly concerned about the disparity here.
Not everybody wants to play ladder ...
Also, think of it this way OP;
ALL existing gear will be worthless once we hit 70. Sure some might help us level, but that will go by fast. So there's your gear reset.
Crafting mats / new gem tiers will still need to be farmed to make use of the gold for enchanting / blacksmithing.
The only real 'advantage' I see is someone having higher paragon levels for more Ppoints. To put it bluntly, so what? You can't (as it stands right now) trade legendaries / sets, and there's no AH to fight over, so does it REALLY effect your fun playing a game that someone has a couple extra points to spend?
I voted no because all-in-all, it's really not going to matter a little while after launch.
The thread isn't asking whether you want a ladder, that is another discussion altogether. This is only for if you would like a reset at the start of the expansion.
Except gold, AND paragon, and some items will still be good such as leoric's and hellfire rings on followers. I just want the feeling of a real reset, and rushing to the top against everyone else, but not necessarily scheduled ladder resets.
I've been a firm enemy of Auction Houses for over a year and half, and I hate what it's done not just to the game but to peoples' attitudes in-game. That being said, as Bleu pointed out, much of what's being packed into both Reaper of Souls as well as the pre-expansion Patch 2.0.1 are going to put everyone on even ground. Sure, people with over a million DPS will have a leg up, doesn't mean even they won't be able to find upgrades. That's the whole point. Gear is taking a huge enough leap forward that even people who practically broke the game for themselves with Auction House use will be finding gear, along with the "poor and destitute".
Bagstone, with all due respect, I expected a smarter answer out of you.
People who grinded enough XP for long enough to get 10 Paragon Level 100 characters hardly compares to the disparity in time and effort between a self-found player struggling for DPS and an AH user who crests 100k DPS before they hit 2500 elite kills. Got a guy on my friends list who's not only done that (don't even think he's passed 150 hours total), including somehow not killing Inferno Belial. A person who starts Reaper of Souls with that much Paragon XP EARNED the Paragon Points they start with, and more power to them. Honestly, saying they've already completed 50% of endgame? Please...given the Paragon XP Curve estimate we're looking at, and the fact that Paragon 1000s in the beta are being quoted as starting at around Sharagon Level 376? They've got a pretty long road ahead even before they cap their 3 Alternate Paragon Tabs at Plvl 800.
And as for billions of gold being unfair, and Blizzard needing to strike a balance? Let me tell you all something...
I remember the huge "gold dupe bug" of Patch 1.0.8. And I remember people emphatically railing against Blizzard DEMANDING that EVERYONE in the community get full account wipes in order to make the game "fair." Luckily, Blizzard approached things with a cool head and decided that it would be better to punish the people who got gold unfairly, rather than blanket punish everyone like children, when there were very likely people who earned their gold legitimately, who didn't deserve to get their progress unfairly taken away because a small handful of jerks decided to exploit the game.
Right now, my account is sitting on 46.5 million in Softcore gold...not a single coin of that is from the AH. It's ALL from VENDING and PICKUPS and Quest Rewards (as meager as some may be). And if my account gets wiped, because people aren't happy with others having an "unfair advantage," I'm going to be seriously aggravated.
Besides...people saving up billions right now, for the expansion...how much of an advantage will gold really be? Enchanting, Haedrig crafting, gem crafting, Transmog, maybe Paragon Points...that's about all that gold will be useful for. It goes back to being just a resource. Sure, right now, you can use billions to buy who sets of MP10 Inferno facerolling gear. But that won't be possible in Reaper of Souls.
Shad3slayer, thank you for clarifying your point...I was about to say...if Ladders get implemented, that would be probably the biggest reason for there NOT to be a full community account wipe, as no matter how much gold or Paragon XP people have stashed away come the expansion will just be starting from scratch when a new Ladder kicks up. Granted, not everyone plays Ladders, but the people who want a fresh start (and repeated fresh starts) get it in Ladder competition.
I won't say this is a silly idea, but I sincerely hope, in my deepest heart of hearts...down in the cochles of my heart, maybe the sub-cochular areas...that this doesn't become a popular idea.
Keep in mind...the expansion IS a wipe. The game is making about as grand a fresh start as it can get, as even people who used the AH frequently have stuff to strive for. :-)
Don't really care if people have more.
In regard to your post, OP...even though you don't outright say you used the Auction House, chances are you got close to a billion gold by using it.
And with all due respect (in case my post came out harshly, I don't mean it to), I do acknowledge and respect your position on wanting everyone on even ground.
I don't know where your gold came from...if you paid real money for it, or simply amassed it from sales...however, if you're really concerned about starting as fresh as you can, why not just sorta "launder" the gold? Give bits and pieces of it away to noobs who could use a little "stimulus package"? ;-)
As for your gear, I also don't know what that looks like, or how much DPS you're pushing around...but one thing we need to keep in mind here...one word...Crusader.
No one will be starting Reaper of Souls with a leveled up Crusader. Everyone will be starting Crusaders at level 1. Sure, If a person has a really powerful Strength Hellfire Ring, leveling that Crusader will take a bit less time, but creating a Crusader will definitely be a fresh start for a lot of people. Billions of gold won't have as much bearing on a Level 1 character. Only Paragon Points might, and most people don't have Paragon 1000s to make their new Crusaders godly right out of the gate. It's one of the upsides to the "Paragon Points get allocated in one of each of the four tabs every four levels" aspect. Granted, that means allocating certain stats over others isn't as much of a trade-off or a free choice...but I still support it.
So please don't worry too heavily about everyone not starting fresh...my guess is it'll certainly feel pretty fresh when the updates start coming.
Gold will be worthless.
Ladder will introduce a full reset for those who want it.
But most importantly : If they reset everything, why should people play at all from now till RoS release ? That would not make sense from a business point of view.
Voted "i dont care" cause IF I buy RoS, I'll be playing ladder anyway.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Well, what can I say... you're right. Thanks for pointing this out - totally forgot the XP curve; 10x p100 is "just" 50% of getting to ~p450. Miles away from p800 - I stand corrected. I shouldn't do any maths in my head before 9am and without coffee...
But in terms of money, my opinion still stands. Seeing that removing a marquise gem is still 5m, I just don't know how this will play out in RoS. Will money be inflationary as well, and every bounty will yield a million gold? Then it could work, but I don't like these insanely high numbers (unless it were my real bank account). Or is money dropping in rates like now? Then not only self-found people but many players that don't have > 100m will have to grind a looooong time to get all the money necessary for crafting, enchanting, and unsocketing. Or buy one billion before the AH goes down and you'll have never money issues in RoS. See me point? Like I said, it's an opinion. I'm fine with certain people having a head start in RoS. In fact, people who have played >2000 hours should have a head start. But a head start does not mean that for years to come, you should never have money issues. On the other hand, if you were to balance the game such that even billionaires will run out of money, how is average Joe ever gonna afford everything in RoS?
The playing field was 'leveled' at D3's launch. Nothing is stopping you, op, from acquiring everything that you're so worried everyone else will have at launch.
From what I saw at Blizzcon and from what I've seen in the beta, all crafting costs have been dramatically reduced, which of course is because they are trying to promote self found. Will a ton of people have gold to spend for a long time? Yes. You know what they DON'T have, and neither does anyone else? The rest of ALL the crafting materials needed to utilize said gold. We're still going to have to farm new legendaries to salvage into legendary material needed. Marquise gems drop in RoS, so everyone will be on the same field when it comes to farming gems / combining to use in crafting. Everyone still has to level up their artisans using the new dropped crafting materials in RoS.
What I'm saying is, Blizzard is making gold a relatively non-issue with the addition of bounties and adventure mode. The advantage the people with billions will have is not very much. No reason to flip out =P
Btw, crafting costs were >100k for a rare 61 item, afaik. It's not that cheap considering you probably need to craft a lot to get a good drop.
And like I said in my post - people who invested lots of time should definitely get a head start, so although I voted for "reset" right now I don't want an entire reset. My only concern is imbalance. But well, let's see. If there'll be ladder, there should be less complaints about endgame, thus resolving most of my issues... but it's not the question of this topic.
If memory servers me right, going off just what I saw at level 33 at Blizzcon, completing one bounty (out of 5 per act) gave me roughly ~ 140k gold. No idea if that's actually a max level value, but we should see soon enough.
If they implement seasonal ladders then i don't mind them wiping players who decide to play ladder... I will play non ladder. I don't think that's how it will be though.
The people who don't want to feel like leveling at a slower pace than others are "failing" maybe?
Honestly, I'd be willing to bet that people playing ladders for over a decade is where all this "efficiency" nonsense started. People thinking that leveling and gearing at lightspeed is suddenly the best course. Yeah...when you're on a time-limit and HAVE TO get to the top the fastest in order to "win," then yes, efficiency is totally understood. However, Diablo is the type of game for people of all types, and if people want to go slow, take in the sights, enjoy the simple day to day of sifting through treasures to feel like they're maximizing gear or build utility, that's where they see the enjoyment. Ladder is basically PvE but with a competitive element. I don't play Diablo games to compete against others, at least not directly.
So...I'm a people that will play non-ladder...if you want one example, :-)
Yeah, I think they're going to adjust crafting costs and Quest Rewards as well to properly balance gold income with gold sinks. I mean, right now, there's a pretty steep uptick in how much gem upgrades cost when you hit certain tiers. Before that, it's dirt cheap, but once you hit that certain point, it goes up big time. Obviously, this has a lot to do with the AH, and how Blizzard wanted us to use it...mainly because (and I don't mean to open a can of worms here) popularity of trading in the past inspired the AH's creation in the first place. Blizzard thought the AH's would be something the bulk of the community would want. Turns out, a seemingly perfect system like that ended up being a major thorn in the game's side, and brought it too far from the where it should've been....as well as causing the game to require adjustments in other areas to accommodate it, which held back the people who didn't want to use it, thus making most peoples' experiences uncomfortable in some way or another.
Incidentally, even with the amount of gold I have on hand, I still haven't crafted a single Marquise. I don't feel bad about that, and I'm not "jealous" of others running around dripping with Marquises...but at the same time, there are people who have done mostly item crafting, who may not see 20million gold, or the total gems and Tomes for quite a while yet.
So yeah, before release, I'm sure some fine-tuning will happen to balance it all out.
You make a valid point.
However, I guess for me, enjoying Ladders simply for the act of starting over is something someone used to be able to do on their own, if they wanted. D2 didn't really need something to get people to start over, as if you wanted to make a new build in endgame, it was pretty hard without Akara's help (what I've read of Tokens of Absolution is pretty scary), so the easier way to do it was just to start over. You're right that most people probably didn't care necessarily about winning ladders, but if that's the case...why bother competing in a ladder then if all you want is to have a reason to start over? That's what I'm saying...winning may not have been the objective, but people still wanted to start over so they could succeed and say, "yeah, I did X and Y and Z, and I shot up to #4 in only a week."
Diablo 3, on the other hand, could absolutely use Ladders far more because characters have a lot more longevity. Since people can switch skills in and out at their leisure, people don't need to start over and reroll even a quarter as often as they were in D2. Meaning, people NEED to feel like they can start over from scratch in D3, and see how their leveling pans out. They need to be able to have a reason to go back to early levels and enjoy, as most of the time, they hit endgame and never look back. I don't plan to participate, but I'm very glad that Ladders look like a very real possibility coming soon. I mean, you say the game turns into just a long grind, which gets boring, not for me...given the variety of loot that will be appearing in the expansion, I'll likely be gathering a ton of it up and trying out all manner of builds with tons of sidegrade and skill combinations. That's where the fun will be for me. But like I said, I don't want to compete, or feel like if I'm not leveling fast enough, I'm "not doing as well" as someone else.
There are enough numeric ways to judge someone in this game/community, and enough emphasis on "efficiency". At least with Ladders, people can feel efficient THERE, as opposed to imposing a need for efficiency on people who just feel like casually farming or grinding XP or strengthening their characters.
I don't mind that they're rendering D3 1.08 items obsolete....good riddance I say. But my progress, no.
There are essentially 3 types of players that will play RoS.
1) People that never played D3 before.
2) People that quit D3 long ago and came back for RoS.
3) People that stuck with it.
If they did a total wipe on the grounds that it isn't fair to players whom didn't stick with it, what does that say to players that did put in the time and support? They would be effectively stating that RoS IS Diablo III 1.0 and the last (2) years has, in fact, been the longest, largest BETA phase in the history of gaming.
Not cool. I did quit 4 times for an average of 6 weeks each time, but I always came back, choosing D3 over a number of other choices.
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