Is this why they had to make the new gear so much better than the current gear? If they didn't then our current quadfecta gear, albeit somewhat rare and difficult to obtain, would easily outperform the new items being forced to have multiple secondary stats.
Right now we have quadfecta gear which is no longer possible in the new system on most items I presume. Will those items flesh out into the divided categories or just remain the same? How does this work exactly?
Afaik quadfecta (main stat+IAS+CHD+CC) is still possible, but you'd end up getting zero toughness from that item. Correct me if I'm wrong.
But wasn't it kind of obvious that they would invalidate gear by inflating numbers? The same thing happened every WoW expansion, and with their comment "don't care about inflation, we love big numbers" they admitted that that's exactly their way to go about it...
Edit: Just watched Jaetch's video and I have to say, I really don't like the huge numbers. I mean, you'll be fighting enemies with over a billion (!) HP. I wasn't even able to tell if he hits for 800k or 8 million, and there's no combat log to see how much damage you did. It's nice if you're doing significant damage, but in my opinion it got ouf of hand.
Fun fact: in WoW they are squishing big number because they are too hard to read and they reached the HP cap in some boss fights..
I know they want to make older gear obsolete for the arrival of new loot and the expansion but i'd like to have an easy read on how much damage i do and how many hps my enemies have.
And then at level 60 you get 30 Dexterity on your DH?
So? Why is that worse than getting 30.000? Less "awesome"?
I wanna go on record here saying that I really dislike power creep. D2 LoD was awesome in that regard.
No, like, what kind of Dexterity increase do you get till 60? Half a Dexterity per level? No Dexterity the first 10 levels and then gradually adding?
I agree with maka that 30 is no less awesome than 30k. But it's also true that you can't just let low level chars do 0.03 points of damage to monsters with 0.12 hp.
I think, I talked about this already in beta, after some WoW experience. The number inflation stinks, I don't like those monstrous figures, especially if I can't read them. But now is not the time to revert that (and btw Blizz doesn't even want to).
We're going to deal millions and more damage, so the only thing we can hope for is better readability. The first obvious step would be to finally add commas between figures. I don't care if it's American 1,000,000.00 or German 1.000.000,00. I can read both, anyone who can't?
A possible second step that just came to my mind was to use colors. Since they're not using colors in a meaningful way so far (like fire damage being red, cold damage blue etc), they could do something like this:
1,000,000,000
Sure finding the right colors would require more effort than I just put into it, but that'd make reading the numbers much easier imo.
edit:
On a related note, I'd really want platinum (= 1k gold or why not 1m gold) and mithril (=1k/m plat) introduced to better manage cash
I'm not a fan of power creep either; it takes away a lot of pride you feel toward your current character. To know that I worked for months to get up to break the 200k dps mark and after a couple of easily earned levels in RoS I will be way beyond that - its disheartening.
But those who do "the math" better than I feel free to chime in - it seems like they took dps numbers that we are used to seeing and (no JW slam intended) doubled them? Or even tripled, quadrupled them?
So its power creep, but with the critizied enthusiasm of a dev gone wild? Why not make the end game items have a base dps around 2k with slight increases above that mark - rather than weapons jumping from 1k to 3k or even 4k?
That would make our current gear obsolete, but not in a laughing way of: "NOOB - you only do 200k dps, LOLZ!"
Or, instead of showing "8438347", "12743837", "9827328" and so on it could just be "8.4m", "12.7m", "9.8m". Perfectly readable, just a display adjustment. But these seemingly random 7 or 8 digit numbers are ridiculous.
Polrayne, the massive jump is required to put all players back in line. Right now we have players at 70k dps and players at 700k dps I think, maybe even higher. To make things equal again the new 70k dps will have to be much higher than even that 700k dps. So you can't tackle the inflation there.
The seed of the problem lies in the already super high numbers of vanilla D3. 200k dps is just ridiculous if put into perspective. During the time I played WoW, 2k dps was really high. Your offhand hits were below 1k, in endgame content wearing full epic gear. And no, you didn't do fractions of 1 damage in early levels.
I have no idea at all why the D3 designers wanted these numbers. But now that they're there, they have to deal with them.
Or, instead of showing "8438347", "12743837", "9827328" and so on it could just be "8.4m", "12.7m", "9.8m". Perfectly readable, just a display adjustment. But these seemingly random 7 or 8 digit numbers are ridiculous.
Readable? Maybe. Impressive? No. Your monster crit displaying a tiny "1.4m" would get lost between all those huge "35123" Tornado ticks
Readable? Maybe. Impressive? No. Your monster crit displaying a tiny "1.4m" would get lost between all those huge "35123" Tornado ticks
Tornado ticks would show 35k. You can reduce every number to 2 digits plus magnitude quantifier (after 99k comes 0.1m). Or just make it up to three digits (after 999k it becomes 1m, or 1.00m). So many possible solutions.
You're both right from a mathematical point of view. But I think, this is about visuals too. The biggest hit should be displayed the most impressive way and stand out somehow. Having an "m" instead of a "k" doesn't really do that imo. If that "m"-number were yellow and that "k"-number white, maybe.
I could also imagine some checkbox options that set the base unit for all damage numbers displayed.
I would say if they added commas and then maybe used different font sizes in the numbers as a subtle denotation for numbers with different amounts of digits it would be fine. The more characters the number has the bigger the number.
My guess is either the numbers on level 70 items will far surpass even what trifecta can currently give us or we will have to regear anyway and take a drop in damage to increases our defense and healing to be able to survive. Or both.
Its the first part of a beta review, the item upgrades section covers the replacement of current gear.
Basically, outside of things with move or attack speed bonuses (lacunis, mempo, witching hour, innas pants), all of the "-fecta" items are easily replaced due to the stat inflation. From what I've heard, you'll not have to sacrifice dps in order to upgrade toughness, but you may have to give up those unique bonuses that don't roll on rares.
But still, I want to know what happens to our current gear...
What if I have rare items that have: primary stat + trifecta (IAS, CD, CC) and All Res?
If there wasn't an inflation in stats no rare would ever be better than this as rares can't have this quintfecta any longer.
Yeah, sorry for derailing your thread.
I guess this is very much subject to change still. In my opinion, there is no way to keep crit % and similar bonuses directly. A rating system like in WoW would solve many issues. And boo to all those who just don't want it because it's from WoW
As of now it seems pretty possible for lvl63 craft amulets to beat anything from RoS, especially with the ability to enchant it further. See that "world first xyz" thread.
Right now we have quadfecta gear which is no longer possible in the new system on most items I presume. Will those items flesh out into the divided categories or just remain the same? How does this work exactly?
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
But wasn't it kind of obvious that they would invalidate gear by inflating numbers? The same thing happened every WoW expansion, and with their comment "don't care about inflation, we love big numbers" they admitted that that's exactly their way to go about it...
Edit: Just watched Jaetch's video and I have to say, I really don't like the huge numbers. I mean, you'll be fighting enemies with over a billion (!) HP. I wasn't even able to tell if he hits for 800k or 8 million, and there's no combat log to see how much damage you did. It's nice if you're doing significant damage, but in my opinion it got ouf of hand.
I know they want to make older gear obsolete for the arrival of new loot and the expansion but i'd like to have an easy read on how much damage i do and how many hps my enemies have.
Ha. Bagstone.
Ha. Bagstone.
No, like, what kind of Dexterity increase do you get till 60? Half a Dexterity per level? No Dexterity the first 10 levels and then gradually adding?
Ha. Bagstone.
I think, I talked about this already in beta, after some WoW experience. The number inflation stinks, I don't like those monstrous figures, especially if I can't read them. But now is not the time to revert that (and btw Blizz doesn't even want to).
We're going to deal millions and more damage, so the only thing we can hope for is better readability. The first obvious step would be to finally add commas between figures. I don't care if it's American 1,000,000.00 or German 1.000.000,00. I can read both, anyone who can't?
A possible second step that just came to my mind was to use colors. Since they're not using colors in a meaningful way so far (like fire damage being red, cold damage blue etc), they could do something like this:
1,000,000,000
Sure finding the right colors would require more effort than I just put into it, but that'd make reading the numbers much easier imo.
edit:
On a related note, I'd really want platinum (= 1k gold or why not 1m gold) and mithril (=1k/m plat) introduced to better manage cash
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
I'm not a fan of power creep either; it takes away a lot of pride you feel toward your current character. To know that I worked for months to get up to break the 200k dps mark and after a couple of easily earned levels in RoS I will be way beyond that - its disheartening.
But those who do "the math" better than I feel free to chime in - it seems like they took dps numbers that we are used to seeing and (no JW slam intended) doubled them? Or even tripled, quadrupled them?
So its power creep, but with the critizied enthusiasm of a dev gone wild? Why not make the end game items have a base dps around 2k with slight increases above that mark - rather than weapons jumping from 1k to 3k or even 4k?
That would make our current gear obsolete, but not in a laughing way of: "NOOB - you only do 200k dps, LOLZ!"
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
The seed of the problem lies in the already super high numbers of vanilla D3. 200k dps is just ridiculous if put into perspective. During the time I played WoW, 2k dps was really high. Your offhand hits were below 1k, in endgame content wearing full epic gear. And no, you didn't do fractions of 1 damage in early levels.
I have no idea at all why the D3 designers wanted these numbers. But now that they're there, they have to deal with them.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Problem solved.
(only when testing out new gear or skills, use the numbers and crap)
Readable? Maybe. Impressive? No. Your monster crit displaying a tiny "1.4m" would get lost between all those huge "35123" Tornado ticks
When has ignoring a problem ever solved it?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Tornado ticks would show 35k. You can reduce every number to 2 digits plus magnitude quantifier (after 99k comes 0.1m). Or just make it up to three digits (after 999k it becomes 1m, or 1.00m). So many possible solutions.
I could also imagine some checkbox options that set the base unit for all damage numbers displayed.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
What if I have rare items that have: primary stat + trifecta (IAS, CD, CC) and All Res?
If there wasn't an inflation in stats no rare would ever be better than this as rares can't have this quintfecta any longer.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
Its the first part of a beta review, the item upgrades section covers the replacement of current gear.
Basically, outside of things with move or attack speed bonuses (lacunis, mempo, witching hour, innas pants), all of the "-fecta" items are easily replaced due to the stat inflation. From what I've heard, you'll not have to sacrifice dps in order to upgrade toughness, but you may have to give up those unique bonuses that don't roll on rares.
Yeah, sorry for derailing your thread.
I guess this is very much subject to change still. In my opinion, there is no way to keep crit % and similar bonuses directly. A rating system like in WoW would solve many issues. And boo to all those who just don't want it because it's from WoW
As of now it seems pretty possible for lvl63 craft amulets to beat anything from RoS, especially with the ability to enchant it further. See that "world first xyz" thread.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450