Boa opinions?

Poll: What do you think about BOA?

Opinions on Boa?

What do you think about BOA? - Single Choice

  • This will kill the game!!! dont do it!!! 12.8%
  • Not necessary. 16%
  • I am not sure. 12.8%
  • who cares. 6.4%
  • It should be added. 34%
  • Essential for diablo 3's survival!!! 18.1%

Poll: If you want boa, in what form(s) should it be?

Opinions on Boa?

If you want boa, in what form(s) should it be? - Multiple Choice

  • Bind to guild/friends list 25% of Users - 10 votes
  • bind to character 0% of Users - 0 votes
  • bind after a time limit 10% of Users - 4 votes
  • Bind when given to another player unidentifed 5% of Users - 2 votes
  • Bind on first trade 25% of Users - 10 votes
  • bind when identified 12.5% of Users - 5 votes
  • bind when picked up in game 10% of Users - 4 votes
  • Bind only crafted/enchanted items 40% of Users - 16 votes
  • Bind everything! 2.5% of Users - 1 votes

Poll: What should be bound to account?

Opinions on Boa?

What should be bound to account? - Multiple Choice

  • Enchanted items 77.5% of Users - 31 votes
  • Transmorged items 12.5% of Users - 5 votes
  • Level 70 gear 12.5% of Users - 5 votes
  • Rares 5% of Users - 2 votes
  • Magic items 0% of Users - 0 votes
  • Set items 55% of Users - 22 votes
  • Legendaries 55% of Users - 22 votes
  • Craftables 40% of Users - 16 votes
  • Everything! 5% of Users - 2 votes
  • #41
    Quote from Zeyk23

    Quote from maka

    Quote from Zeyk23

    People who trade want an advantage, it's meaningless for them otherwise.

    Wrong.

    Quote from Zeyk23

    Diablo is a game that's all about farming as efficiently as possible.


    Wrong gain.

    Damn, not your day, buddy.


    So you like my suggestion then?


    What, for a separate SF mode, where the only thing you can trade with your friends is a friendly "Hi!" ?
    No, I do not.
    I was just disagreeing with your generalisations. They are very far from reality.

    Quote from Tralfamadore

    The other reason I voted this way is because not every game has to turn into a giant e-peen contest vs. your neighbor.


    Wise words.
  • #42
    Quote from Zeyk23

    People who trade want an advantage, it's meaningless for them otherwise.


    I am only speaking for myself (something I'd urge you to do) because there's no way I could claim to know what all "traders" want.

    What I want is the ability to play Diablo 3 with my friends the same way I did D2. If I find a Skorn that's slightly better than my buddy's I want to be able to give it to him and take his as a hand-me-down for my other characters. I'm not trying to "break the game" here. I'm trying to be a GOOD FRIEND to the people I play with. I enjoy the game as something more than some isolated experience with chat functionality.

    I think it's horribly damaging to your "argument" if you try to paint everyone who trades as ... well someone who wants to trade as an avenue to get the top gear instantly. People of that mentality are already going to be very much harmed with the AH removal. Their "playstyle" is going to be slowed down significantly.

    But to say that trading is "meaningless" to players other than to "gain an advantage" is really painting some broad brushstrokes designed only to portray someone who makes a trade as Scrooge McDuck. That's such an unfair generalization it's not even funny.

    Quote from Zeyk23

    Diablo is a game that's all about farming as efficiently as possible. It's just not the same when you know that you are handicapping yourself to a fraction of what other people can do.


    So, what you're saying is that D3 is not fun unless you're a 500k+ DPS toon using a 100% optimal farming route and build in MP10?

    I have five characters, which maybe add up to 500k total DPS. None of them use optimal builds and most of the time I'm not using an optimal route. I enjoy the game MORE playing sub-optimally than I do trying to be 100% efficient at all times. In fact, I doubt that there are a ton of people on these forums playing anywhere close to 100% optimally. To suggest that none of them are having fun because efficiency is the only goal is kinda silly.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #43
    What it comes down to is that I think Diablo is considerably more fun when you find all your own gear than when you trade for it(outside your immediate teammates), and I would argue that most players feel the same. As great as it would be if there was a solution that makes every single person happy, there isn't - every form of trading has drawbacks that will impact the game for self-found players one way or another. The job of a game designer is to have a clear vision for the game and make the tough choices to make it happen, often at the exclusion of other playstyles. And it will be much easier for them to do that when they have a singular philosophy on how items are meant to be acquired. With trading gone, they can make whatever improvements they want for self-found players without having to worry about the impact it will have on traders(i.e. "if we improve loot too much, traders will reach the endgame too quickly and get bored").
  • #44
    I voted for it should be added.

    I think having the ability to trade with people in your group, when you got the item, is great. However, I realize that alot of the community wants to take trading further. Moldran posted a video about the BoA items, and one of his suggestions iirc is to be able to trade with guild/clan members for a time of like three days. Something along these lines I think would make a nice middle ground between people who are for BoA legendary, items and those who are against it.
  • #45
    Quote from Zeyk23

    i.e. "if we improve loot too much, traders will reach the endgame too quickly and get bored"


    That's a financial decision if I ever saw one.
  • #46
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Zeyk23

    i.e. "if we improve loot too much, traders will reach the endgame too quickly and get bored"


    That's a financial decision if I ever saw one.


    That's nonsense, they're not collecting any money from people who already bought the game. In fact they're removing their only source of post-launch revenue for the sake of resolving this issue.

    The fact is that the fanbase wants D3 to last them a long time. Preventing people from hitting the cap too quickly is a good thing for players.
  • #47
    Quote from Zeyk23

    Quote from maka

    Quote from Zeyk23

    i.e. "if we improve loot too much, traders will reach the endgame too quickly and get bored"


    That's a financial decision if I ever saw one.


    That's nonsense, they're not collecting any money from people who already bought the game. In fact they're removing their only source of post-launch revenue for the sake of resolving this issue.


    Bored people don't buy expansions, and might even resent Blizzard, therefore having repercussions in future games/other franchises.
    If not, why do they care if traders get bored?
  • #48
    Well, my gut reaction is I don't like legendary trading going away, because I think back to D2 and I liked trading. However, a good point was brought up; Trading was necessary because most likely you weren't going to get the best uniques in D2 ( 8 years, no windforce lol >.

    But if we can actually play self found, have a good chance at getting the gear we want, are still able to trade every item type up to rare, and crafting mats and gold to use to upgrade our items, then I think putting BoA on legendaries actually won't effect me.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #49
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Zeyk23

    Quote from maka

    Quote from Zeyk23

    i.e. "if we improve loot too much, traders will reach the endgame too quickly and get bored"


    That's a financial decision if I ever saw one.


    That's nonsense, they're not collecting any money from people who already bought the game. In fact they're removing their only source of post-launch revenue for the sake of resolving this issue.


    Bored people don't buy expansions, and might even resent Blizzard, therefore having repercussions in future games/other franchises.
    If not, why do they care if traders get bored?


    Yes, Blizzard is a business, and they make money by creating good games. Congratulations, you cracked the code. A less cynical person might call BoA Legendaries a "make the game as good as possible" decision.
  • #50
    Quote from Zeyk23

    Quote from maka

    Quote from Zeyk23

    Quote from maka

    Quote from Zeyk23

    i.e. "if we improve loot too much, traders will reach the endgame too quickly and get bored"


    That's a financial decision if I ever saw one.


    That's nonsense, they're not collecting any money from people who already bought the game. In fact they're removing their only source of post-launch revenue for the sake of resolving this issue.


    Bored people don't buy expansions, and might even resent Blizzard, therefore having repercussions in future games/other franchises.
    If not, why do they care if traders get bored?


    Yes, Blizzard is a business, and they make money by creating good games. Congratulations, you cracked the code. A less cynical person might call BoA Legendaries a "make the game as good as possible" decision.


    BUT ITS FOR MONEY ZOMG BIG BUSINESS = THE DEVIL WE SHOULD ALL SHARE OUR MONEY SO NO ONE GETS THEIR FEELERS HURTTT
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #51
    Quote from Zeyk23

    Yes, Blizzard is a business, and they make money by creating good games. Congratulations, you cracked the code. A less cynical person might call BoA Legendaries a "make the game as good as possible" decision.


    His point, since you were too busy being a smartass to actually let it sink into your skull, was that making everything BoA may very well come at a price. That price is drop rates so greatly increased (since you can't trade anymore) that the game doesn't have any longevity to it. This is a REAL concern whether or not you tap dance around it.

    Let's just say, for example, that around 90 out of 100 (with 100 being absolutely BiS gear in every slot) the rate at which you acquire items gets slow. Let's also say that Blizzard tunes drop rates with the intention that you hit 90 after 8-12 months. Now you have the majority of players at 90/100 within a year who are basically in the SAME situation they are now - most items are not useful and the ones that are useful are few and far between.

    Without further details, that is a recipe for attrition due to severe boredom. Us Diablo FANS don't want a game that has a predetermined shelf-life. One thing we learned from D2 is that the players make the game what it is and that having the freedom to do so is what gives the game such a long lifespan. D2 had loads of problems, but it lasted because, in a way, it was almost a sandbox. There weren't lots of rules. The game wasn't catering to self-found or traders, nor was it trying to exclude one or the other. The social engineering that you're advocating was NON-EXISTENT in D2 and that's what made it work.

    Blizzard made a product and said "here, play this!" And they made a product that, because it didn't force people to play in any one manner, was amazingly successful. What they've done with D3, especially in this light, is a complete contradiction to the one thing that truly made D2 a great game: freedom to do as you wished.

    Oddly enough, it's only Diablo "fans" who think that finding your own loot 100% of the time is the only "legit" way to play. Nowhere on PoE or TL2 forums would you see people whining that "trading ruins the collective experience" or anything along those lines. And I've begun to wonder why Diablo "fans" are so biggoted and narrow-minded in that regard. Day after day I see posts here which amount to "if you don't play my way then you're a cheater" and I don't get how this is a phenomenon that is almost exclusive to Diablo.

    There was no "right" way to play D2. Why some of you believe that there should be a "right" way to play D3 is beyond me. Meglomania?

    Quote from Bleu42

    But if we can actually play self found, have a good chance at getting the gear we want, are still able to trade every item type up to rare, and crafting mats and gold to use to upgrade our items, then I think putting BoA on legendaries actually won't effect me.


    Honestly, how does trading effect you if you are having a fun self-found experience? If you and I never meet in-game, but maka and I trade an item..... how in the world does that diminish your enjoyment of the game? Do you loose sleep at night knowing that maka and I are 1% ahead of you in a non-competitive game? Do your legendaries lose 1 from each stat?

    My point is this: clans offer sub-communities. If you surround yourself with, and only play with, other like-minded people.... then what's it matter what people who aren't involved in your little world are doing?

    At the end of the day the only question that matters is "Did I have fun?" And, truthfully, I have a hard time believing anyone who says that people who trade items ruin their fun. It sounds a lot to me like you can't enjoy your Christmas presents because your neighbor's father is a rich doctor and bought him nicer presents... and if that's the case, it's sad. Life is far too short to ruin it for yourself by letting jealousy take over like that.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #52
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Bleu42

    But if we can actually play self found, have a good chance at getting the gear we want, are still able to trade every item type up to rare, and crafting mats and gold to use to upgrade our items, then I think putting BoA on legendaries actually won't effect me.


    Honestly, how does trading effect you if you are having a fun self-found experience? If you and I never meet in-game, but maka and I trade an item..... how in the world does that diminish your enjoyment of the game? Do you loose sleep at night knowing that maka and I are 1% ahead of you in a non-competitive game? Do your legendaries lose 1 from each stat?


    I think you misinterpret his post... he was saying that if self-found feels "okay" in RoS, he can live with the BoA restriction. Nowhere in a post do I see anything that hints at other people trading as having an effect on his experience.
  • #53
    Quote from Zeyk23

    Quote from maka

    Quote from Zeyk23

    Quote from maka

    Quote from Zeyk23

    i.e. "if we improve loot too much, traders will reach the endgame too quickly and get bored"


    That's a financial decision if I ever saw one.


    That's nonsense, they're not collecting any money from people who already bought the game. In fact they're removing their only source of post-launch revenue for the sake of resolving this issue.


    Bored people don't buy expansions, and might even resent Blizzard, therefore having repercussions in future games/other franchises.
    If not, why do they care if traders get bored?


    Yes, Blizzard is a business, and they make money by creating good games. Congratulations, you cracked the code. A less cynical person might call BoA Legendaries a "make the game as good as possible" decision.


    Almost a nice dodge there, buddy.
    First you deny that this is a financial move, then you acknowledge it but dismiss it with the all-time classic "XXX is a business".
  • #54
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Zeyk23

    Yes, Blizzard is a business, and they make money by creating good games. Congratulations, you cracked the code. A less cynical person might call BoA Legendaries a "make the game as good as possible" decision.


    His point, since you were too busy being a smartass to actually let it sink into your skull, was that making everything BoA may very well come at a price. That price is drop rates so greatly increased (since you can't trade anymore) that the game doesn't have any longevity to it. This is a REAL concern whether or not you tap dance around it.

    Let's just say, for example, that around 90 out of 100 (with 100 being absolutely BiS gear in every slot) the rate at which you acquire items gets slow. Let's also say that Blizzard tunes drop rates with the intention that you hit 90 after 8-12 months. Now you have the majority of players at 90/100 within a year who are basically in the SAME situation they are now - most items are not useful and the ones that are useful are few and far between.

    Without further details, that is a recipe for attrition due to severe boredom. Us Diablo FANS don't want a game that has a predetermined shelf-life. One thing we learned from D2 is that the players make the game what it is and that having the freedom to do so is what gives the game such a long lifespan. D2 had loads of problems, but it lasted because, in a way, it was almost a sandbox. There weren't lots of rules. The game wasn't catering to self-found or traders, nor was it trying to exclude one or the other. The social engineering that you're advocating was NON-EXISTENT in D2 and that's what made it work.


    You're saying that by making it easier to trade, it will actually take longer for people to reach the power cap? Sorry, that doesn't make any sense at all. The auction house showed pretty definitively that unrestricted trading results in an item economy that is greatly inflated. For a handful of gold now you can get a set of gear that anybody would have salivated over back at launch.

    The open trading metagame basically consists of "I know exactly what I want, so I'm going to go and buy it, and now my build is done." There isn't any real randomness, it's basically just pick-and-choose all your stats because there's so much abundance of everything that you can definitely find what you're looking for. With self-found however, you have to work with what you get, which means a lot more creative builds based on what's available rather than what's cookie cutter. It's going to take longer to fill every slot with exactly the Legendaries that you want, and that means more longevity no matter how you look at it.
  • #55
    Quote from Zeyk23

    You're saying that by making it easier to trade, it will actually take longer for people to reach the power cap? Sorry, that doesn't make any sense at all.


    That's not what I'm saying at all. Re-read and try again. I'm not advocating for ANY form of mass trading. I'm advocating for what I refer to as "bind to friends/clan" instead of "bind to game."

    I'm advocating for a framework whereby we can define our own game-within-a-game without defining what others are doing. Nothing more, nothing less.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #56
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Zeyk23

    You're saying that by making it easier to trade, it will actually take longer for people to reach the power cap? Sorry, that doesn't make any sense at all.


    That's not what I'm saying at all. Re-read and try again. I'm not advocating for ANY form of mass trading. I'm advocating for what I refer to as "bind to friends/clan" instead of "bind to game."

    I'm advocating for a framework whereby we can define our own game-within-a-game without defining what others are doing. Nothing more, nothing less.


    Once you start defining all these weird rules, you're just begging the trading community to find a way around them. Bind to friends means anyone can just add someone as a friend first before trading with them. Oops, now it has to be people who were friends when the item dropped. Then people will just add every person on their favorite trading forum as a friend in advance so they're free to trade as they like. Same for clans, people would just join huge trading clans with players they don't actually know at all. And now my group of friends can't be in a clan together because some of them are in the Trading Alliance or whatever. Now all these nice social tools have been warped beyond recognition and are screwing with the in-game economy all over again, not to mention the return of sleezy scammers, etc. And once again, because Blizzard chose to allow this behavior they are responsible for pleasing these players and their design decisions are affected. And of course the traders are still not happy because the trading experience is such a convoluted pain in the ass.

    You can't make one game that pleases everyone, it simply can't be done. The more you try, the messier things get. Path of Exile is obviously going for a different approach that appeals to that audience, why not just play that game?
  • #57
    I'm probably not going too far out on a limb on this one, but I have this gut feeling that the people that are so adamant about "preserving the integrity of the loot" by removing trading are either 1) going to be complaining that loot is falling from the skies and is too easy to come by like in the PS version or 2) that they are unhappy because they want to try out this new fun build, but they are not sure if they are ever going to see the items to make this build since it may take between 0 and 100 years for the item just to drop let alone if it rolls useful stats.

    We're talking about going from one extreme to a different extreme and expecting a different outcome ...
  • #58
    What they've done with D3, especially in this light, is a complete contradiction to the one thing that truly made D2 a great game: freedom to do as you wished.

    The only restriction in Diablo 3 (after RoS) will be that you can't trade legendary/set items (and only those types) with players other than your party members. Which by the way, is only the current plan. That might change in some way too. Otherwise, RoS will be the most open Diablo game yet.

    It's not "no trading", it's no trading of legs/sets outside of the party when they dropped. It's not the "other extreme" from the AH. That would be everything BoA.
  • #59
    Quote from Zeyk23

    Bind to friends means anyone can just add someone as a friend first before trading with them. Oops, now it has to be people who were friends when the item dropped. Then people will just add every person on their favorite trading forum as a friend in advance so they're free to trade as they like. Same for clans, people would just join huge trading clans with players they don't actually know at all. And now my group of friends can't be in a clan together because some of them are in the Trading Alliance or whatever. Now all these nice social tools have been warped beyond recognition and are screwing with the in-game economy all over again, not to mention the return of sleezy scammers, etc.


    There's a limit to friends lists which is relatively low (100, "relatively low" compared to for example Facebook ;-)); and there might as well be an (even lower) limit on clans (like 50, why not). So you can't just join with everyone on D2JSP. If you have some people you add in advance because you want to trade with them, keep in mind these people have to add you to, and there are no more than 99 people more important than you for this person (and vice versa). Isn't this already the loose definition of friendship? I don't see the problem here.

    And why would anyone add scammers to their friends list/clan? Rather the opposite, this solution would actually allow for an easy way of getting rid of them - kick them out of your clan/friends list and the scammer is screwed. He can't even get rid of his items by joining another clan.

    I could totally live with this functionality implemented, to be honest.
  • #60
    There must be an option for "nothing" for the last two polls. Otherwise, someone who doesn't want BoA, can't submit his vote.

    Quote from eman41

    What they've done with D3, especially in this light, is a complete contradiction to the one thing that truly made D2 a great game: freedom to do as you wished.

    The only restriction in Diablo 3 (after RoS) will be that you can't trade legendary/set items (and only those types) with players other than your party members. Which by the way, is only the current plan. That might change in some way too. Otherwise, RoS will be the most open Diablo game yet.

    It's not "no trading", it's no trading of legs/sets outside of the party when they dropped. It's not the "other extreme" from the AH. That would be everything BoA.


    It's like no trading because legendaries are going to be BiS and the rares you have on other slots will most likely be enchanted, thus making them bound too. Trading will be DEAD.

    Quote from Zeyk23
    "if we improve loot too much, traders will reach the endgame too quickly and get bored".


    And that's the actual flaw of the game. Nothing to do. And what will we get with RoS? More loot sources, but no playground for the perfect characters those have that fall for this expansion.
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