Transmog Removes Unique Item's Visual Uniqueness/Value

  • #1
    Overview
    • One of Blizzard's core values for Diablo is "rarity = power", and it represents the core element of uniqueness that displays power and rarity, due to how "legendary" the item is. This is why Transmog works against that core value.
    • To me the approach of Transmog just sounds like some people are too impatient to wait and allow rarity to display power/uniqueness, they'd rather get what they want without any work, just like a spoiled child.
    • If you let players freely change unique's looks to other uniques they've found, you can easily have players just swapping their preferred look by unlocking the one they want at a lower level if the item is dropped before the max level, then transfer the look over to their unique that they have at their current level with better stats. That would be the lazy way to do it. While it would be far more rewarding if players could just wait until they have found the item at their desired level and then use it when they have it then. And there wouldn't be a reason they wouldn't use it since all uniques are effective, especially when there's Enchanting to make affixes even more effective.
    • And so usually the consequence of this is destroying rarity and uniqueness itself through that, like when they demanded more loot and ended up with too much useless loot, when what they really wanted was rarity = power, less loot but more uniqueness and power to rare loot, exactly what I said in my Itemization post (http://us.battle.net...09861367).
    • The catch is also though, previously there wasn't enough useful loot either, so simple-minds deduce that you must add more loot as a solution, they were dead wrong. It's the same situation here, right now there's no look variety because there's not enough worthy unique items to wear without sacrificing your power, not enough power to the unique items, like not enough loot, you see? So they deduce that they must solve this issue by adding variety, by allowing every item to take on the look of another item. But they're dead wrong, again.
    • Once all uniques are powerful, there's no lacking of diversity of different powerful items anyway. And by making every item able to look like any unique and powerful items, it nullifies that power by making the look non-unique. It's essentially the same thing as adding too much useless loot because you think "more is better", by adding more customization and allowing every item to have the look of any unique items, you are reducing the rarity/uniqueness of said actually unique items.
    • "More, more, more customization!", always just reminds me of, "More, more, more loot!"
    • You get what you ask for, when you don't know what you're asking for. But naive children don't know better than to beg and cry until they get what they want without working or waiting, only to realize later it's not what they wanted. So I very much like my approach more, because you have to work hard and get paid for it, not get spoonfed whatever you want.
    • And it's not like it's impossible to end up with what you want either, if you listened to Blizzcon panel you'd know: #EndGameForEveryone. And you can also trade your soulbound "legendary" uniques with your friends that you played with, so if they have a piece you like and you have one they like, trade.
    • Effectively what Transmog does to your items is make them look like anything you want it to look like, underneath are still the items you really have. This removes the distinction between different items. If that's the case can't the monsters have their distinctions removed as well? After all, they are just for looks, and underneath is still the original monster, and you can see it's name is the original name so you just make it look like a different monster on the outside like your gear.
    • That's like what transmoging acts like to me when I see other players who've used it, so when I start playing after Transmog I see them wearing armor they are not really wearing just because they wanted to look like that. Do you see? It's the same thing if you changed monsters. It's like having to see a different monster rather than the actual monster. Just gear wise instead. To me it's not right to allow items to have their looks changed from what they really are, as then I would see them wearing another item, which they shouldn't have the plain ability to completely look like something else they aren't.
    • I wouldn't mind however, if they made variants to some items that aren't unique to look better or in a set, but unique items should remain 'unique to it's name'. As monsters with special abilities you would like to look the same so you knew what it was without looking at the name. It's outward appearance should appear with their name. But if it's a rare item you could transmog it to be any of the set tier looks because they are all among the same non-unique sets, and that would be fine. Just like monsters if they didn't have any unique effect I wouldn't mind if they changed to something else as much because there is no special effect or uniqueness to it.
    • And something something completely neglected is that when all these said uniques become useful and always worthy to wear, who's to say there's a problem with switching to that peiece specifically because you like the way it looks? No problem because it's just as good. You see? There's no reason to remove the novelty of unique bound to unique names/abilities. If you like a certain look since all uniques are useful unlike currently, only a few are, which is the original problem, but once all uniques are balanced it shouldn't be the case. They said they are making all uniques useful/worthy, I saw the panel of them talking about the primary and secondary stats, all the rollable ranges written on the affix list, etc, their goal is to make all uniques "legendary" and actually make them "unique" and "game-changing". All uniques are able to roll at level 70. All uniques have comparable max-roll attributes.
    • Now why would you void that uniqueness by making every unique able to look like another one?
    • It's kind of like a brain thing, you don't realize that you've fixed the problem by doing something, then you try and refix the problem with a method that ruins another part of the game. If you just made every unique worth of wearing, then there's no reason for people NOT to be able to choose a specific unique item with said unique appearance since it's just as viable as any other unique?
    Transmog Removes Unique Item's Visual Uniqueness/Value, Unique Appearance Should Be Bound to Items With Special Effects/Powers.
    • Every item is basically every other item look wise. Nothing is actually that specific look because anything can be changed into it. So all the legendary and set items have no actual uniqueness to them except from the stats. Weapons with special powers can look like any other weapon. A topped out player can change their gear to level 1 gear and look like a complete noob.
    • The complaint was that currently there is no diversity in visual queues as everyone wore the same types of gear with the same look as they are the only ones that are useful. But they completely disregarded the fact that in Loot 2.0 all unique and legendary items will be useful and worthy, that means no one would wear the same thing.
    • So innately you have diversity but in a valuable sense where item's are individual. It is completely unnecessary to allow looks to be transferable when they are unique items because it completely devalues their distinctive looks. This argument that Transmog would make looks more diverse is completely invalid as it will be that way anyway as long as all uniques are useful and worthy to wear.
    • They stated that all uniques have unique special abilities and effects, this should be bound to it's unique visual element/design. Who cares if you can't change a cool looking useful unique item? It's not like everyone wears the same ones because every unique is worthy of wearing. You can change your standard items fine, but do not destroy the unique item's dignity of special legendary value.
    • The problem with a customizable wardrobe is that it basically acts like a disposable skin, every item can look like everything else, there's no value or meaning to it, you just change it back and forth and no one cares.
    Take an FPS game for example, you have all sorts of guns with different features and unique attributes, what would be the point of these unique guns aside from their different functionality if one could look like the other? An AK could look like an M4, an M4 can look like a P90, a P90 could look like an AK? A Glock can look like a Desert Eagle, a Desert Eagle can look like an M9? That's just outrageous.

    There's a simple and important reason not every gun can look like any other gun, so people could tell when someone is using a specific gun for a specific reason, there is value to the distinct visuals of the different types of guns, if everything was mixed, there would be no real indication of any gun being used, they are just randomly chosen, or chosen for their visual appeal rather than their functional significance which is more important.

    If the item has no special ability fine, change it's look to another one that's the same. You have an axe with no ability? Change it to a sword, fine. But you have a Skorn that does X and makes a unique effect you should not be able to change it to another 2hand axe that does Y and makes a different unique effect. Take note that every other item would ideally be used just as equally so in this case the Skorn would not be an overused item unlike it is now.

    The game is changed, uniques have unique abilities, it's no longer just a game of stats and rolls, they dish out additional powers. This gives incentive to keep their definitive visual queue.
    • Transmog should only work for regular items where you switch your armor visual through the 1-70 tiers of armors, but not swap visuals of legendaries/uniques. While dyes should be able to change the colors of the unique items to match in tone. That way before you own a "unique" item, you can customize your armor to be more set-like tier to tier. But once you hit unique items they should all actually look unique whilst you can have different colors.
    • I think the way it should be is that every unique item is true to it's value and uniqueness. The unique picture that depict the item should directly translate in-game as well. I know a lot of legendaries that have a default design to them on every character that looks nothing like what it looks like in the picture of the item. There needs to be signature designs for each of the signifying items.
    • Also, many of the low tiered items should get a redesign because they just took absolutely worthless. Even if they are low tiered pieces they should look respectable and decent. High end items should look 10x more powerful and complex, like mentioned, unique visual components to every unique item that define it to it's name. This way you can Transmog your regular gear to all the different tiers unique set look, while the unique items are always distinctive on it's own for it to unique to it.
    Little do people realize how important the design of items are on a whole scale.
    • If every item can be changed to the look of every other item then it is pointless to have a certain item except for it's abilities. That means it's like the same item can be every other type of item.
    • And when items in the low tier are as crap as they look, it is very unattractive to the new players. If you can make both the low tier items look awesome but the highest tiered items look absolutely stunning and magnificent to look at, like some kind of heavenly or hellish artistic portrayal of supreme imagination created it, then it will have the new players loving the armor they are already in and dream about getting unique collections and sets of armors that all look vastly different from one another, rather than all of them amounting to the same look because every one can look the same as another one.
    I think Transmog will turn out to be a failure once people realize this.

    Good thing it's a simple fix by just disabling Transmoging unique items.

    The true way to design a game with merit and create a intricate synchronicity would be to make the tree of item tier designs come to life with unimaginable item/character elements that branch together naturally and not allowing each significance to be replaceable or reiterated by other unique aspects of elements. So the standard items sets tiered from 1-70 can still have their looks Transmoged, but unique items stay true to their unique visual with color differences.

    http://us.battle.net...pic/10586418574
    "When you've seen less, you see more."
  • #2
    I agree, it takes away a lot of the lore behind the item, and everyone will probably use Legendary skins everywhere, if possible. I even doubt if it is a necessary feature with the changes they are promising (to Legendaries).

    It's like saying "look we know we can't balance all items, so at least you can use the crappy ones to have a cooler look". I'd rather have them be more proactive when balancing those weaker Legendaries.
  • #3
    That all sounds great on paper, but you're assuming that it's possible to create unique art for legendary items that appeals to everyone, such that we all go "Yes, this visual is suitably unique and powerful for this item," and nod our heads in unison. But that's just not possible; it's a matter of taste, and taste is purely subjective.

    Take the Grandfather for example. Some people might call Diablo 3's visual for that sword to be suitably unique and powerful-looking. I think it looks silly, like a big iron cross with a handle. I much, much preferred the artwork from Diablo 1 - a simple, elegant katana. That looks powerful to me. Neither position is wrong - it's subjective.

    Since legendary items are going to have unique, build-making affixes attached to them, it would have been cool to preserve their unique looks as well so you could associate the visual with the build. But at the same time, some items are inevitably going to rise to the top as the most powerful no matter what, and everyone will be looking a little too homogenized.

    So I think it's a worthy trade off.
  • #4
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    I agree, it takes away a lot of the lore behind the item, and everyone will probably use Legendary skins everywhere, if possible.


    I won't! Fuck that! I want to use the crafting mats elsewhere. I could give two fucks what my character looks like! This isn't Miss America! ;)
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #5
    My feelings for transmog are completely mixed. I like it, but I also hate it.

    I am kind of against the idea of items taking on the skins of legendaries, but not necessarily against making a legendary look like a regular tiered piece of armor.
  • #6
    This isn't a dress up game, it's a game to display power, and your gear represents that, their values should be bound to it specifically. There's also a significance of recognizing the type of armor they are wearing and the powers they possess, if every item can be any other item then you could never tell what they were really wearing except by inspecting them, and then its like every item is just any other item until you see what they really are.
    "When you've seen less, you see more."
  • #7
    I'm kinda "meh" on the whole issue, but I do support it. I think at first, people will get carried away with it, but after awhile, folks will probably just use it to make a certain piece or two "fit" with their character.

    When I see a barb that looks like he's wearing cargo shorts, it's a bit off-putting. The great thing about Transmog, you don't have to use it. More choices/customization is rarely ever a bad thing.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #8
    As much as it is nice to have uniqueness to an items look, if you look at the present game, almost every high tiered character of the same class uses the same gear or something similar.
    Mempo, inna's pants, echoing fury etc. The Inna's set is one of the ugliest set in the game, the only reason anyone wears them is their stats. Ultimately every item looking like one another is ridiculous as this is what is currently happening.
    For they are doing is allowing people to decide their own uniqueness in gear they have acquired rather than sticking to the same look all of the time, Its the same as the colour dies to how an item looks, and gives someone a choice in the aesthics of their character even if they are wearing ther same gear as someone else.
    Aesthics is the point entirely, if your of the opinion items should be look how they were designed they dont transmog, simple as that, but many other people, me inclusive have been bored of seeing my character look dodgey just because my choice is either look awesome hit like a tissue, look dodge, hit like a truck.

    Low level items do not need to be change, I would not expect a level 10 character for example to have gear that looked *as good as* gear from say level 30-40, and the level 40 gear to look as good as level 60. Their are apparently 18 teirs of gear at present, which just shows a reasonable degree of progession for every character, slowly looking better the further you progress.

    haha, transmog won't fail, I would wager that you would be one of a select few that feels this way, as per what was said above, most people will go "yay I can look like I've always wanted too"

    @ Zero, for me, I enjoy my lore, however I hardly think it aplies to many people, most dont care about the item more than the stats that it provides, or with transmog the look it will give.
    Also, most probably will use legendary skins, for me however, I cant wait to get all of the elephant bone tier items(late nightmare, early hell??) for my barb, always love that look.
  • #9
    The fact is that nobody cares enough about item appearance to choose an item on that basis unless the stat difference is really really small. So without transmog, item appearance is irrelevant; people use a mish/mash of whatever and try not to think about it. I don't see the point in preserving such a system. Item appearance will be a much larger(and more fun) part of the game when you're trying to collect them all than it is today.
  • #10
    You can do it in a better way without it by adding individuality to each item. Then they can be mixed and matched with all sorts of unique appearances, and if all items were valuable like they describe it then each item will have it's own niche and groups of people who wear them, with an equal balance you will see awesome variations while keeping their specific asthetic.
    "When you've seen less, you see more."
  • #11
    Quote from Zero(pS)


    It's like saying "look we know we can't balance all items, so at least you can use the crappy ones to have a cooler look". I'd rather have them be more proactive when balancing those weaker Legendaries.


    You can't have dozends of legendaries in a game and have them all be exactly as powerfull as all other ones. I'd love to see that balancing god at work. Has never happened so far in any game I know of.

    ( Except for games with 2 sides where they just copy the stats of one weapon and give it a new skin. )
  • #12
    Transmog could still fit into all of this if it was more like this. Maybe rare armors you acquire through to 70 you can unlock and change to the style you prefer the most (with a revamp of many of them to all look visually pleasing in some way, even the simplified versions for lower tier, and perhaps add more variants to higher tiers). But anything above that the items unique visual should be bound to it.
    "When you've seen less, you see more."
  • #13
    Quote from ImmortalSol

    You can do it in a better way without it by adding individuality to each item. Then they can be mixed and matched with all sorts of unique appearances, and if all items were valuable like they describe it then each item will have it's own niche and groups of people who wear them, with an equal balance you will see awesome variations while keeping their specific asthetic.


    Two things:

    1. I don't care about the variations I see on other people, or being able to tell what their build is at a glance. I want my character to look cool at all times. And that isn't going to happen if I have a "mixed and matched" set of gear that I chose for gameplay reasons. It's just going to look ridiculous, exactly like today.

    2. You will see far, far more visual variety as a result of transmog, that I guarantee you. There are far more appearances to choose from than there are viable legendaries to equip. Different people have different tastes in aesthetics, but everyone wants the best items.
  • #14
    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    It's like saying "look we know we can't balance all items, so at least you can use the crappy ones to have a cooler look". I'd rather have them be more proactive when balancing those weaker Legendaries.


    You can't have dozends of legendaries in a game and have them all be exactly as powerfull as all other ones. I'd love to see that balancing god at work. Has never happened so far in any game I know of.

    ( Except for games with 2 sides where they just copy the stats of one weapon and give it a new skin. )

    Fair point. Specially with the amount of new Legendaries they're introducing.

    I guess, having played too much moba-like games, I'm just addicted to "balance" :P

    Once the change is live, I will probably love hunting Legendaries and switching looks every now and then. It ain't Miss America but I like feeling PRETTY shaggy!
  • #15
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    It ain't Miss America but I like feeling PRETTY shaggy!


    Oh, don't get me wrong - more power to you. I didn't transmog in WoW, but I always enjoyed seeing the shit my friends came up with. It's not a system that I will use, but there's no way in hell I would ever argue it's a worthless thing for them to add to the game.... because it's not. Many people will get much enjoyment from it... and that makes it a very worthwhile addition.

    Hell, I'll enjoy it even though I won't use it!

    EDIT
    I'm saying it now: DiabloFans needs to have a monthly competition for best transmog. That would be quite fun!
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #16
    Quote from Zeyk23

    Quote from ImmortalSol

    You can do it in a better way without it by adding individuality to each item. Then they can be mixed and matched with all sorts of unique appearances, and if all items were valuable like they describe it then each item will have it's own niche and groups of people who wear them, with an equal balance you will see awesome variations while keeping their specific asthetic.


    Two things:

    1. I don't care about the variations I see on other people, or being able to tell what their build is at a glance. I want my character to look cool at all times. And that isn't going to happen if I have a "mixed and matched" set of gear that I chose for gameplay reasons. It's just going to look ridiculous, exactly like today.

    2. You will see far, far more visual variety as a result of transmog, that I guarantee you. There are far more appearances to choose from than there are viable legendaries to equip. Different people have different tastes in aesthetics, but everyone wants the best items.


    The fact is each unique item should already stand on it's own, paired with any other useful unique they should create yet another unique visual, since all legendaries will be value and useful, each items look should be valued and unique to itself. The reason why items currently look awful with paired together is because they all have a default visual with different coloring and some minor changes, this makes sets look more appealing, but if all unique items had individuality and stood on its own looking "legendary", then it is both going to have unique combinations since all are useful, then the look will actually matter and not just be a fake swappable skin to the actual item.
    "When you've seen less, you see more."
  • #17
    I never liked the idea of transmog, but what I even hated more that in current D3 EVERYONE runs around in the same clothes (Mempo+Vile Ward, at least before 1.07) and that's when I changed my view. I actually haven't seen my Vile Ward in a loooong time - have almost "Vanishing Dye" on them. These long tooth picks don't suite the shoulders of my fragile wizard.

    It's also not gamebreaking, as long as they disable transmog in PvP (which is a different topic). In PvE (and in a non-competitive game in D3) appearance isn't too important after all, but if you're not satisfied with it you should be allowed to change it. Also, keep in mind that you can't change it to EVERY design: you have to find the legendary you want to transmog your item into first.

    One thing struck me:

    Quote from ImmortalSol

    Little do people realize how important the design of items are on a whole scale.

    If every item can be changed to the look of every other item then it is pointless to have a certain item except for it's abilities. That means it's like the same item can be every other type of item.


    I think you overestimate what's important to most people. By far the number one reason you want to have an item are its abilities. If design was a major factor, no one would wear Inna's pants or EF, there are soooo many better designed items out there right now.
  • #18
    See you guys are all in the old stage of the game, thinking everyone will look the same if there wasn't transmog, what you don't realize is they stated that all legendary/uniques will have their valuable abilities and usefulness that makes every item usable and worthy. That means it naturally won't be everyone running around with the same look. You are completely disregarding that fact.
    "When you've seen less, you see more."
  • #19
    Quote from ImmortalSol

    See you guys are all in the old stage of the game, thinking everyone will look the same if there wasn't transmog, what you don't realize is they stated that all legendary/uniques will have their valuable abilities and usefulness that makes every item usable and worthy. That means it naturally won't be everyone running around with the same look. You are completely disregarding that fact.


    If that's the case and the unique look of legendaries is distinctive (and cool) enough, then I won't transmogrify, as simple as that. If someone thinks a design sucks (because designs are just very subjective - some love it, some hate it) they can transmogrify it. It doesn't matter for the game balance or whatever as long as there's no proper PvP.
  • #20
    So it is completely unnecessary once they are all useful and they all have a unique and compelling look. What it serves to be is devaluing all actual uniqueness of every item, every item should have it's abilities and a unique visual combined to it, not whatever look you want on your item with said ability, then every item can have any ability essentially.

    Transmog should only work for regular items where you switch your armor visual through the 1-70 tiers of armors, but not swap visuals of legendaries/uniques. That way before you own a "unique" item, you can customize your armor to be more set-like tier to tier. But once you hit unique items they should all actually look unique.
    "When you've seen less, you see more."
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