Travis Day on "Legendaries/set items being soulbound"

  • #81
    Quote from maka

    Quote from itirnitii

    You can't have (1) legendaries drop at a frequent rate, (2) have no bad rolls on legendaries (3) have them be tradeable, and (4) have the experience of finding a legendary feel rewarding. It's asking too much. Something has got to give.


    Yes, you can. You just have to forgo one of the options BY YOURSELF, but they can all be in the game.
    I, for example, would forgo trading on a mass scale, so (1) legendaries would still drop at a frequent rate, (2), they would have no bad rolls, (3) they would still be tradable, and, because I wasn't mass trading, (4) the experience of finding a legendary would still be rewarding.

    Quote from itirnitii

    With all the problems trading causes: duping, scamming, pay to win, botting... I think the answer is obvious. It is a sacrifice, but I think once people give it a try and put their fears aside they will find it will be for the better.


    None of those things affect me, so all the changes would be for the worse.


    You don't think they affect you, but they do. You are in a multiplayer environment, everything concerning items can affect you unless you play in a bubble and never join a game with another player. Even playing a game with someone that has traded outside themselves gives you an advantage you probably don't think much about. I can pontificate further or list other examples if you'd like?
  • #82
    The game is not a sandbox. Let's just take it a step further and lose all restrictions and have everybody pose their own restrictions on themselves based on how they feel the game should be played then? Blizzard taking a unified stance on a mechanic has a purpose. Self imposing limits is self defeating. You put the limits on yourself, but don't actually feel engaged by it because it is for no real purpose, because for many it is a multiplayer experience and you want to play on the same footing as everyone else does.
  • #83
    Quote from itirnitii

    The game is not a sandbox. Let's just take it a step further and lose all restrictions and have everybody pose their own restrictions on themselves based on how they feel the game should be played then? Blizzard taking a unified stance on a mechanic has a purpose. Self imposing limits is self defeating. You put the limits on yourself, but don't actually feel engaged by it because it is for no real purpose, because for many it is a multiplayer experience and you want to play on the same footing as everyone else does.


    Myself and Maka already do that. With these proposed changes, we wouldn't be able to help each other out. Not sure how that makes a better player experience?
  • #84
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from itirnitii

    The game is not a sandbox. Let's just take it a step further and lose all restrictions and have everybody pose their own restrictions on themselves based on how they feel the game should be played then? Blizzard taking a unified stance on a mechanic has a purpose. Self imposing limits is self defeating. You put the limits on yourself, but don't actually feel engaged by it because it is for no real purpose, because for many it is a multiplayer experience and you want to play on the same footing as everyone else does.


    Myself and Maka already do that. With these proposed changes, we wouldn't be able to help each other out. Not sure how that makes a better player experience?


    Many people might enjoy self-imposed limitations to enhance their experiences and that is okay, but it should not be the basis for creating proper balance. The game still has to set a precedent by imposing its own boundaries.
  • #85
    Quote from itirnitii

    Quote from maka

    Quote from itirnitii

    You can't have (1) legendaries drop at a frequent rate, (2) have no bad rolls on legendaries (3) have them be tradeable, and (4) have the experience of finding a legendary feel rewarding. It's asking too much. Something has got to give.


    Yes, you can. You just have to forgo one of the options BY YOURSELF, but they can all be in the game.
    I, for example, would forgo trading on a mass scale, so (1) legendaries would still drop at a frequent rate, (2), they would have no bad rolls, (3) they would still be tradable, and, because I wasn't mass trading, (4) the experience of finding a legendary would still be rewarding.

    Quote from itirnitii

    With all the problems trading causes: duping, scamming, pay to win, botting... I think the answer is obvious. It is a sacrifice, but I think once people give it a try and put their fears aside they will find it will be for the better.


    None of those things affect me, so all the changes would be for the worse.


    You don't think they affect you, but they do. You are in a multiplayer environment, everything concerning items can affect you unless you play in a bubble and never join a game with another player. Even playing a game with someone that has traded outside themselves gives you an advantage you probably don't think much about. I can pontificate further or list other examples if you'd like?


    Not true at all, This only works in game with direct competition against one another. In Diablo there's no competition between players other than the minimal PVP'ing available and even then by the time real PVP comes out hopefully they'll have a matchmaking system in place that takes into account gear tiers as well as skill. In Diablo you're constantly competing against yourself to one-up your own gear, but the problem with no trading at all is that it reduces the amount of availability by far too much. There has to be minimal trading between players. If there's next to no availability of items then you could go years without seeing an item or achieving that perfect set that you want to base your build around, I'm not saying we shouldn't have to work for it but if I find 5 Mempo's and I'm looking for a Tals I should be able to say "Hey, I got this badass Mempo, and you got that badass Tal's wanna trade?" Having this scenario completely eliminated is absolutely ridiculous, and everyone saying "oh you can trade with the people in the game yeah for a 'Limited amount of time'" well what about if no one gets Tals in my game and I get the mempo in that game, then I am just shit out of luck again? Come on that's not a good solution for me.
    Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!


  • #86
    playing as a barb some legendary wizard hat drops and it will be soulbound to my barb?


    GREAT.
  • #87
    What I was getting at is the global trade market can affect you even if you personally don't take part in it. If the market is directed in a way where someone dupes millions of perfect mempos and someone who joins your game has one of those mempos because they were then dirt cheap and could be traded for a chipped ruby. They help you kill monsters faster, because their DPS is inflated by that mempo, you are benefitting from that by monsters in your game dying faster. It's an extreme example, but these type of nuances affect your item hunt all the time even if you ignore the market personally, you are indirectly influenced by it.

    Another example. Legendaries are tradeable. Over the course of a few months these legendaries flood the market and everyone has amazing gear that nobody actually found themselves. You don't personally trade, because you choose not to, and you blindly tell yourself that it doesn't affect you at all what other players do! Well, when you play with those players who benefitted from trading in an oversaturated market, monsters die quicker in your game and you indirectly benefit.

    Another examples. Gems. Hardly anyone has ever actually made their own radiant star gems by picking them up and creating the gems themselves, but many people still tend to have full sets somehow. Those players join your game and kill monsters faster, which in turn you benefit from.

    So, to thereby say that what happens in the global market doesn't affect you is a ridiculous claim. The only way it couldn't is if you don't play with anyone, but then why would you care about trading in the first place?
  • #88
    Quote from itirnitii

    What I was getting at is the global trade market can affect you even if you personally don't take part in it. If the market is directed in a way where someone dupes millions of perfect mempos and someone who joins your game has one of those mempos because they were then dirt cheap and could be traded for a chipped ruby. They help you kill monsters faster, because their DPS is inflated by that mempo, you are benefitting from that by monsters in your game dying faster. It's an extreme example, but these type of nuances affect your item hunt all the time even if you ignore the market personally, you are indirectly influenced by it.

    Another example. Legendaries are tradeable. Over the course of a few months these legendaries flood the market and everyone has amazing gear that nobody actually found themselves. You don't personally trade, because you choose not to, and you blindly tell yourself that it doesn't affect you at all what other players do! Well, when you play with those players who benefitted from trading and an oversaturated market monsters die quicker in your game and you indirectly benefit.

    Another examples. Gems. Hardly anyone has ever actually made their own radiant star gems, but they still tend to have full sets. Those players join your game and kill monsters faster, which in turn you benefit from.

    So, to thereby say that what happens in the global market doesn't affect you is a ridiculous claim. The only way it couldn't is if you don't play with anyone, but then why would you care about trading in the first place?


    D3 is dupe free.

    This will always be a game of the haves and the have nots. Only, some trade aspect for end game gears offers players some pliability.
  • #89
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from itirnitii

    What I was getting at is the global trade market can affect you even if you personally don't take part in it. If the market is directed in a way where someone dupes millions of perfect mempos and someone who joins your game has one of those mempos because they were then dirt cheap and could be traded for a chipped ruby. They help you kill monsters faster, because their DPS is inflated by that mempo, you are benefitting from that by monsters in your game dying faster. It's an extreme example, but these type of nuances affect your item hunt all the time even if you ignore the market personally, you are indirectly influenced by it.

    Another example. Legendaries are tradeable. Over the course of a few months these legendaries flood the market and everyone has amazing gear that nobody actually found themselves. You don't personally trade, because you choose not to, and you blindly tell yourself that it doesn't affect you at all what other players do! Well, when you play with those players who benefitted from trading and an oversaturated market monsters die quicker in your game and you indirectly benefit.

    Another examples. Gems. Hardly anyone has ever actually made their own radiant star gems, but they still tend to have full sets. Those players join your game and kill monsters faster, which in turn you benefit from.

    So, to thereby say that what happens in the global market doesn't affect you is a ridiculous claim. The only way it couldn't is if you don't play with anyone, but then why would you care about trading in the first place?


    D3 is dupe free.


    You can't be serious?
    Even if you are and that was actually true, the point still stands. What happens in the global economy affects you all the time when you play with others.
  • #90
    Quote from itirnitii

    You don't think they affect you, but they do. You are in a multiplayer environment, everything concerning items can affect you unless you play in a bubble and never join a game with another player. Even playing a game with someone that has traded outside themselves gives you an advantage you probably don't think much about. I can pontificate further or list other examples if you'd like?


    Sorry, I didn't explain myself in the best of ways. What I meant was that none of those things have affected me so far. I've never been scammed, I never paid to win, I didn't use the AH and only traded items with friends, so duping and botting didn't really affect me.
    I don't play in a bubble, but I don't play with random people, I just play with friends and solo.
    Basically, those things you mention have a very minimal impact on my game, if any at all. I don't worry about them.


    Quote from Bullkathos1928

    playing as a barb some legendary wizard hat drops and it will be soulbound to my barb?


    GREAT.


    Not to your barb, but to your account.


    @itirnitii: like-minded people tend to band together. I don't mass trade, so most people in my f-list also don't mass trade, or they do it but begrudgingly so, and eagerly await the time where they're not heavily punished for not doing so. All this to say that it's very unlikely that a player that partakes in "shady business" like botting, duping, or 3rd-party-site-buying, will join my game.
    Apart from that, you're just playing '7 degrees of separation'. "Tom told Sue, that told Helen, that told Mike, that told Bob, that told Mary that told you!". Yeah, technically you're right, anything that happens anywhere has an indirect effect on you, but, #1, that effect is minimal, and #2, I don't care. I haven't even with the AH in full force, why will I care when it's gone? I don't measure my fun by what items other people have, and neither should you or anyone else.
  • #91
    PoE has what most people thought D3 would get as a replacement for the AHs - forum trading.

    It has a stable economy, at least in the 4 month leagues, which D3 would also get with the introduction of ladders.

    You can reasonably expect to find items or currency, even the rarest of the rare items are possible to either be found or traded for if one plays enough (orders of magnitude more likely than finding the best stuff is currently in D3). Presumably with the removal of the AHs this would've been possible for D3 as well. It's already been done, after all, so why not in D3 too?

    D3 doesn't suffer too horribly from the duping that plagued D2, the only dupes that exist are those GMs create when they reinstate fraudulently hacked accounts. Easy enough to fix if Blizzard cared to (I'll never understand why reinstating items didn't come along with an automatic deletion of whatever was stolen and the reimbursement of whoever bought it in the AH. All items have unique id's, don't they?). So they got a solid basis for a functioning economy.

    Even if they simply can't do what others have already done, there's the option to create a true self found league along with the current ones. But I guess they don't want to segregate the population of the game right? Because having more people unable to meaningfully interact (because no trade, no pvp - don't call effin' brawling pvp, gurubashi arena had this in the original wow circa 2005 and it was as simple as stepping into it, no menu clicks required) is a must for the game, right?
  • #92
    Quote from itirnitii



    You can't be serious?


    There is no dupe method. Only customer service scams. You can't make millions of items using that scam, maybe 8 or 10.
  • #93
    I like this cos this way u will see who is rly DIablo 3 pro not like hey i will use my 100k fg that i got from poker at d2jsp and have better gear than some1 with over 2,3k hours ingame with not a penny spended,and to see streamers handle this.If u say u love d3 then play it like mad and get all that u need which it is not possible right now.P.S they can try with only in-clan (main) trading oflegs and sets.

  • #94
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from itirnitii

    You can't be serious?


    There is no dupe method. Only customer service scams. You can't make millions of items using that scam, maybe 8 or 10.


    It's still a hypothetical regardless. It is easy to transition the argument to other ways the global market indirectly affect every person that plays with almost any other player. You may choose to play D3 "your way" but what is going on around you still takes a toll on your experience, because what others are doing influences you when you play with them.

    So if the market is overflooded with tradable and easily acquired legendaries when you play with them you are affected by that when they kill stuff quicker than they otherwise would be. You gain faster experience and more items as a result.
  • #95
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    I wouldn't go as far as saying I wouldn't buy the game because of it, but it definitely is a negative thing in my eyes now. We just need more info and time to think about it. I don't like knee-jerk reactions to changes like these :D (even though sometimes said reactions are necessary).


    As shocking as this is - I say give it a chance and consider it. None of us have experienced the new loot system in RoS. And they have been saying that they want you to find your stuff by killing monsters, not trading.

    In the Gamescom Loot 2.0 breakdown, Josh said that in a regular run in act 3 with a paragon level 40 character they averaged 6 legendary items.

    Its not the same game. So with respect to the folks that are saying "if I can't get a mempo, than that's not fair" should really reflect on this. Chances are simply higher that you might find one now with their new system - that they've been talking about for a long time now.

    Not being able to fill up a mule with cool legendaries that i can trade/sell is a big break from the Diablo experience. Having a mule with legendaries that I can use on my other classes and perhaps get motivated to roll a new character seems to be on the mark for a Diablo game.

    Give it a chance.
  • #96
    Have you guys played the console version? If so you know with hardly any effort you get every damn legendary and set item you need. Now that we know rare legend and set items will be BiS in RoS i highly doubt they will be hard to find.

    Honestly i'll give it to blizzard for trying something new. I mean before D3 released if someone told you we would see a Diablo game with No skill trees, pvp or trading what would you have said?
  • #97
    Quote from Mini641

    Have you guys played the console version? If so you know with hardly any effort you get every damn legendary and set item you need. Now that we know rare legend and set items will be BiS in RoS i highly doubt they will be hard to find.

    Honestly i'll give it to blizzard for trying something new. I mean before D3 released if someone told you we would see a Diablo game with No skill trees, pvp or trading what would you have said?


    That it doesn't sound much like diablo, which is about right? :P

    You can get most ingame items in single player RPGs, it's been their design for years, which is why their main selling points are story and adventuring and you can expect to play them for 30 hours, then move on.

    Diablo is (or, well, used to be) all about replayability, the grind, fast paced combat, perfecting characters through lucky drops and trading. Replace the grind for the item hunt with 'here you go, all of the loot is yours with no effort and by the way you can faceroll everything with average items, no need for perfectly rolled gear anymore' and you don't have much of a game left (there's the fast paced combat, but you no longer have any real objectives left to employ it!). The people who want that played through the first difficulty and called it a day already.
  • #98
    Quote from Mini641

    I mean before D3 released if someone told you we would see a Diablo game with No skill trees, pvp or trading what would you have said?

    I would've said "That game will need an x-pack very soon after launch to keep it alive".




    :)
  • #99
    Quote from Mini641

    Have you guys played the console version? If so you know with hardly any effort you get every damn legendary and set item you need. Now that we know rare legend and set items will be BiS in RoS i highly doubt they will be hard to find.



    This is what my fear is. I don't want OMFGodly items mashed up and spoon fed to me all day long.

    I mean before D3 released if someone told you we would see a Diablo game with No skill trees, pvp or trading what would you have said?


    What would I have said? I would've said most of my old D2 buddies wouldn't play that game......and I would've been right.
  • #100
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from Mini641

    Have you guys played the console version? If so you know with hardly any effort you get every damn legendary and set item you need. Now that we know rare legend and set items will be BiS in RoS i highly doubt they will be hard to find.



    This is what my fear is. I don't want OMFGodly items mashed up and spoon fed to me all day long.

    Isn't that how it is now with AH?

    I kinda doubt godly items will drop all the time. Just because legendaries will drop often, it hardly means they will always be perfect.

    But it is something Blizzard should answer. When greatly increasing droprates, how do they plan to offer progress 6 months or 12 months down the road?
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