Death needs to be punishable ideas

  • #1
    Loss of XP doesn't make sense since you may lose skills and if you hit 70, then its no big deal but what about loss of paragon points?
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  • #2
    play hardcore.
  • #3
    Quote from replica123

    Loss of XP doesn't make sense since you may lose skills and if you hit 70, then its no big deal but what about loss of paragon points?


    Play hardcore if you want death punishable. Otherwise, repairs, and losing back to checkpoint are enough penalty for normal mode.
  • #4
    The penalty for dying on hardcore is just too much for me.
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  • #5
    We'll see what RoS brings, but I really wouldn't mind if they reverted the repair costs... especially if gold is more desireable (even if just for crafting, etc.).
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
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  • #6
    Should just lose all NV stacks or similar. And make NV stacks more impactful, stacking higher while they are at it.

    It would be a good start at least.
  • #7
    I thought the whole point of softcore is just that death didn't really matter?
    Or are you just looking for a middle ground between SC and HC?
  • #8
    If you play softcore, repairs and loss of time is just enough imho. If you are looking for a challenge, then hardcore is the way to go.

    Ofcourse everyone has a different idea of how punishing death should be. I can see loss of paragon points as plausible, however I think it would discourage playing and testing different builds and/or different characters - because you won't have optimal gear right from the start and you might lack experience in playing different class or playstyle. This is, again in my opinion, exact opposite of what players want in D3. I might be wrong thou.
  • #9
    Nooo, the casuals can't handle it!
    Make your peace...Quickly!
  • #10
    So u want it to be like Diablo 2 Hell, lose 10% of ur cash and 10% of ur exp?
  • #11
    I think part of the issue is that the harder you make Softcore, the less of a jump it is to Hardcore. For instance, I NEVER played Hardcore in D2. Never. Call me a Casual all you like...it was hard enough for me to get past the insane imbalance going from one difficulty to the next, with all the monster immunities and resistances causing me to keep dying at one particular level and never being able to advance. I'd get excited for finally gaining a level...then I'd killed...I'd get killed again trying to get my body back, and on my second body-regaining attempt, I get killed a third time and my level goes away, I lose that skill point, and I have to once again struggle for that level.

    Then again, I was mostly a solo D2 player. Other folks would run in huge packs of high level characters, so the "high" penalty for death was easy to get around and prevent. So really, Elendiro...

    Quote from Elendiro

    Nooo, the casuals can't handle it!


    The casuals are only people effected by a high death penalty. I'm sure there were well-versed solo D2 players who made it to the very end without an ounce of trading or help...but that's a few and far between situation, to say the least. Most "vets" knew better than to go out alone. Meanwhile, going out alone is really the only way to prove you can handle the game for real, and not do it with seven other people watching your back...or drawing the "meat shield" straw.

    That being said...I do feel like a bit more penalty for death in D3 could be applied:

    -Double or triple the repair costs, or perhaps scale up the repair costs the more durability items lose, or perhaps scale it up depending on how much durability a particular item has. Might make an item's durability a factor in deciding what loot to keep and what to get rid of.
    -Loss of an NV stack. Provided NV is staying as is come the updates, some tasks require 5 stacks in order to accomplish, and death costing one stack would make those tasks additionally difficult, as a player would have to hunt more elites or resplendent chests or events if they wanted to complete them. They couldn't just zerg a Keywarden, and if they wanted to run Ubers and died during a battle, they'd need to get that stack back before hoping to score an organ.

    Other than that, I'm not sure what penalty could be applied that would be in any way fair. I mean, D2 had a stash that you could keep gold in, but eventually, the game got to a point where death cost you gold even when it was in your stash. How stupid. You put gold in your stash to protect it, but still, "death takes its toll." Exactly what point was there to put gold in your stash, aside from the fact that I'm pretty sure (at least early in D2's lifespan) there was a limit to how much gold you could carry on you?

    Quote from replica123

    Loss of XP doesn't make sense since you may lose skills and if you hit 70, then its no big deal but what about loss of paragon points?


    OP, this is your original post...and honestly, the whole thing doesn't make sense to me. You only gain skills from 1-60 (soon 70), and once you reach Paragon, you're long since leaving the "level cap" in the dust. Furthermore, as it stands right now, you only gain one Paragon Point per XP level AND since Paragon levels are going to be shared, that'd mean that if each death cost you even ONE Paragon Point, that'd be one Paragon Point per character on your account. Granted, Paragon Points right now only effect stats, but imagine if each death in D2 cost you one whole skill point. You'd be clicking "Save & Exit" after every death to make your body appear in town with you, so you didn't have to go through the chore of getting your body back.

    I'm open to hearing ideas, but basically...yeah, if you want "death penalty," play Hardcore. I agree that Hardcore is often very stressful, though, and the two very common ideas I suggested not only make Hardcore additionally harder, but it wouldn't hinder your progress, and it would make people HATE dying in Softcore...which, really, is the whole goal of a "penalty." A penalty doesn't have to be overly harsh, it just has to be something people don't want to see happen.
    Pre AH-shutdown Transcendence/Spirit (Re)gen build, uses only found and crafted gear and gems, can handle MP7.
  • #12
    Loss of a stack seems reasonable to me. Doesn't have a permanent impact, but still punishes you for dying so you don't just die and not care at all.
  • #13
    They should bring back old repair costs imo (from death, not from wear-and-tear). Maybe even go as far as adding a small exp loss (without being able to lose lvls though).

    People complaining that they were spending more gold to play than they were gaining were simply in the wrong difficulty/Act/MP-level for their own sake.

    If you're dying more than you're making, it's a very clear message from the game designer that you're doing something wrong. Specially in what are supposed to be the "higher difficulties".
  • #14
    Tell me how this would make the game more fun.
  • #15
    Quote from andersx

    Tell me how this would make the game more fun.


    Since when does something have to be fun to be included? Sometimes boundaries and punishments for things are a positive thing. This whole argument that if it is fun it should be included and if it isn't fun it shouldn't be included is too black and white and deciding inclusions into the game should be a more multifaceted process than just if it isn't fun = automatically exclusion.

    Not to mention the fact that fun is in the eye of the beholder. For me a higher punishment for death is actually more fun in the form of a more rewarding experience because then I know that when I don't die I am benefiting somehow, even if it is to avoid a punishment. Death doesn't just become meaningless and staying alive becomes beneficial and somewhat crucial to my farming experience. I'm not saying that because I find it fun and alluring that you should too, but don't just dismiss it because you don't find it fun, because others might.

    Things that can be frustrating or difficult in nature can be more fun in the form of satisfaction when achieved properly. Risk versus reward is a dynamic that is vital to the quality and satisfaction of the gaming process.

    But I guess if I come across an exceptionally tough elite pack that might kill me, I'll just shrug my shoulders, lead it to the nearest respawn point, and brute force my way through eliciting multiple deaths just to chip away some HP each kamikaze attempt at no expense of my own. That's real engaging and rewarding game play I must say.
  • #16
    They could do something like:

    1 death = -50% experience gain in current game
    2 deaths = -100%
    3 deaths = -200%
    4 deaths = -400%

    After 10 mins with no deaths this is reset.

    So if you are running around on MP10 with 4 players and so have over 1000% exp gain but you are dying all the time... then not only is this an incentive for you to move to a lower MP level but it also stops leachers a little bit too..

    fyi i thought this up in 5 seconds so it is not really that well thought out..
  • #17
    Quote from itirnitii

    Quote from andersx

    Tell me how this would make the game more fun.


    Since when does something have to be fun to be included? Sometimes boundaries and punishments for things are a positive thing. This whole argument that if it is fun it should be included and if it isn't fun it shouldn't be included is too black and white and deciding inclusions into the game should be a more multifaceted process than just if it isn't fun = automatically exclusion.

    Not to mention the fact that fun is in the eye of the beholder. For me a higher punishment for death is actually more fun in the form of a more rewarding experience because then I know that when I don't die I am benefiting somehow, even if it is to avoid a punishment. Death doesn't just become meaningless and staying alive becomes beneficial and somewhat crucial to my farming experience. I'm not saying that because I find it fun and alluring that you should too, but don't just dismiss it because you don't find it fun, because others might.

    Things that can be frustrating or difficult in nature can be more fun in the form of satisfaction when achieved properly. Risk versus reward is a dynamic that is vital to the quality and satisfaction of the gaming process.

    But I guess if I come across an exceptionally tough elite pack that might kill me, I'll just shrug my shoulders, lead it to the nearest respawn point, and brute force my way through eliciting multiple deaths just to chip away some HP each kamikaze attempt at no expense of my own. That's real engaging and rewarding game play I must say.


    Agreed. Although I dont really like exp loss as a punishment. I like the idea of losing one NV stack.
  • #18
    As a casual player, the repair costs right now are fine so the only thing I can say is that death should make us lose all NV stacks. Maybe even go so far as to say there is a negative buff that reduces Gold and Experience gained once all your NV stacks are gone.
    sto lavorando
  • #19
    Quote from inkcheese

    A negative buff that reduces Gold and Experience gained .


    this sounds familiar to an above post... :P
  • #20
    Some time ago I thought that it would be nice to have a mode that is between soft and hard, something like, you don't lose everything if you die, but it's not free, it would really hurt to die.

    Maybe, some kind of progress would be interesting, something like, if you die, you need to complete again certain part of the story/campaign/dungeon. Plus some gold/repair cost added.

    Because right now, it's black or white, I'd like some gray too. IfyouknowwhatImean.
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