Auto active skills idea

  • #1
    Auto Active Skills
    I was thinking hard how to use more skills at the same time in such a way that it will work both on the pc version of Diablo 3 and the console version of Diablo 3. While playing Diablo 3 there were skills like the mantras, the armor spells and some shouts where I sometimes forgot to recast them in time. I then thought that it would be nice if they were recast automatically, especially if resource generation is not an issue. Then when I played my monk with four parts from the Inna's set I kept smashing the Sweeping Wind button because it was (almost) for free anyway and I didn't want to lose the 3 stacks. I wished I didn't have to keep smashing the button to keep up the 3 stacks.

    After a few days I came up with an idea which I describe as "auto active skills".



    As you can see from the screenshot above it could be used for skills you now have to keep an eye on and have to maintain yourself. Mantras and armor spells are an example of such skills.

    The auto-active skills could have the same behaviour as auras, i.e. always active. Or they could be auto-recast after it expires. Or they could be free of cost and always active, much like the current passive skills.

    This could free up one or more skill slots to be used for other skills.

    Thanks for reading this!

    My previous topics:
    http://www.diablofan...une-extensions/
    http://www.diablofan...actical-combat/
  • #2
    Some problems with your idea is that Overawe mantra increases your damage so you want to cast it when there are mobs to kill not when you are running between packs.
    Also what happens if you have enough fury to cast either sprint or battle rage and the game casts BR and you have to walk to the next pack?
    What if autocasting a buff activates your hellfire ring proc and it agroes a goblin or mobs you didn't want to engage at that time?
    What happens with monks when they are in town? They'll run out of spirit.
    Also while using the exit portals at the end of the dungeons or casting town portal, if you use any ability the channeling is canceled.
    This needs to be out of combat or i don't see how this will work.
  • #3
    OR...they take up a skill slot as a penalty but only need to be casted once (Like path of exile).
    Make your peace...Quickly!
  • #4
    I'm not a fan of continually mashing buff buttons to refresh them (says the WW barb). However, Blizzard has indicated in the past that they want to make all skills feel "active" and have intentionally made it so you get greater effect by spamming the buttons, so I doubt they're going to make them easier to apply now no matter how much I wish they would. :/ If they made any changes though, I'd rather just see all of the long-term buffs just made into Auras, possibly which limited your max resource a la Titan Quest.
    ...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
  • #5
    Psuedo-passives merely need more incentive to be recast. It shouldn't be the point of the skill but rather a gravy bonus.
    sto lavorando
  • #6
    I never really liked how for my wizard I had to cast Armors or Magic Weapon every x amount of minutes. Seems like something that should just be permanent once you cast it like Animal Companions for DH. I never understood the appeal of recasting these skills over and over and over when there's no incentive outside of not doing so meant you lost the bonus. Just make it permanent.
  • #7
    Quote from itirnitii

    I never really liked how for my wizard I had to cast Armors or Magic Weapon every x amount of minutes. Seems like something that should just be permanent once you cast it like Animal Companions for DH. I never understood the appeal of recasting these skills over and over and over when there's no incentive outside of not doing so meant you lost the bonus. Just make it permanent.


    I agree. Either make them permanent or add a short effect when cast like Monk's Mantras.
  • #8
    Quote from RasAlgethi24

    Quote from itirnitii

    I never really liked how for my wizard I had to cast Armors or Magic Weapon every x amount of minutes. Seems like something that should just be permanent once you cast it like Animal Companions for DH. I never understood the appeal of recasting these skills over and over and over when there's no incentive outside of not doing so meant you lost the bonus. Just make it permanent.


    I agree. Either make them permanent or add a short effect when cast like Monk's Mantras.


    Seconded.

    However, even mantras should be permenant. If you want to activate it for the 3s buff then you can, but the actual base mantra effect should not have a duration. It adds NOTHING to gameplay.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #9
    I disagree. I think it's part of the game and the minimal mental effort a simple game like D3 can demand to take care about buffs.

    There were some implications that I really liked, for example when you had to cancel Archon to re-buff. It adds some salt to the really bland game play. Or the monk's Overawe rune, for which you can decide if you just want to re-buff it every few minutes or every 3 seconds for maximum efficiency (but at the cost of additional spirit).

    If you make these buffs permanent, it should cost you something, for example a passive or a rune (and the penalty should be to reduce the effect). Many times people complained about having "only" 6 skill slots; if you don't need to push three of them because they're "permanent buffs", how boring would the game become then?
  • #10
    I agree with the general idea, I think, I've already complained about the redundancy of re-casting of skills like Battle Shout during beta. I don't think, we need six active skills like in Fifa or so just because a controller has so many buttons. Most people play with two live skills and the rest buffs or emergency stuff anyway. So they could just as well add an auto-recast option like in an rts or heavily increase the duration of such skills. They did the same in WoW over the course of several years because they realized, it was just annoying to refresh something every 2 mins. This is the exact same thing, I said over a year ago, actually ;)
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #11
    Quote from Solmyr77

    They did the same in WoW over the course of several years because they realized, it was just annoying to refresh something every 2 mins.


    You can't compare a single paladin buffing a 40 man raid with 5 minute Blessings (WoW early days, Molten core) with a 2 minute self-buff in D3. The first was a pain in the ass, the latter is an acceptable part of game play.
  • #12
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Solmyr77

    They did the same in WoW over the course of several years because they realized, it was just annoying to refresh something every 2 mins.


    You can't compare a single paladin buffing a 40 man raid with 5 minute Blessings (WoW early days, Molten core) with a 2 minute self-buff in D3. The first was a pain in the ass, the latter is an acceptable part of game play.


    Maybe I compared early day WoW Battle Shout (2min) and its later incarnation (10min I think) with the Diablo 3 Battle Shout ;)
    You have a point, that there have been worse buff situations in the history of gaming than there are in D3, but that doesn't make these "hit once every x seconds to permanently have this effect skills" good (or acceptable) design. I'm not a big fan of (trivial) buff management anyway.

    edit:
    And to take this a little further: Why not even an auto-cast option for skills like Sprint? It would trigger whenever your Sprint has faded and you have the resource to cast it.
    Does this take away "skill (tm)" from the game? I wouldn't think so, only less health issues ;)
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #13
    Quote from Solmyr77

    And to take this a little further: Why not even an auto-cast option for skills like Sprint? It would trigger whenever your Sprint has faded and you have the resource to cast it.
    Does this take away "skill ™" from the game? I wouldn't think so, only less health issues ;)


    I think so, yes. Sometimes I need to hit Sprint quickly a couple of times to waste Fury and keep my WotB up. Sometimes I avoid hitting the Sprint button because I'm Fury-starved and wanna save some to hit Rend/Shout after going through a town portal.

    Making everything "automated" is a terrible, terrible idea in my opinion. (And that's coming from someone who has no "skill" whatsoever and is mainly interested in fast-paced, mindless hack'n'slay.)
  • #14
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Solmyr77

    And to take this a little further: Why not even an auto-cast option for skills like Sprint? It would trigger whenever your Sprint has faded and you have the resource to cast it.
    Does this take away "skill ™" from the game? I wouldn't think so, only less health issues ;)


    I think so, yes. Sometimes I need to hit Sprint quickly a couple of times to waste Fury and keep my WotB up. Sometimes I avoid hitting the Sprint button because I'm Fury-starved and wanna save some to hit Rend/Shout after going through a town portal.

    Making everything "automated" is a terrible, terrible idea in my opinion. (And that's coming from someone who has no "skill" whatsoever and is mainly interested in fast-paced, mindless hack'n'slay.)


    What you describe would still have to be done manually. My idea of the autocast would cast it whenever and only when these two conditions are met: a)it's not active already, b)you have enough fury. In your scenarios you either want more or less triggers, which would have to be performed manually, so there is no skill-issue in that regard.

    On a side note: Sprint is a prime example of a skill that many people do not trigger manually anyway. Suppose that's a known issue and Blizz could enlighten the grey area some, if they would implement such an autocast feature.
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #15
    Quote from Solmyr77

    What you describe would still have to be done manually. My idea of the autocast would cast it whenever and only when these two conditions are met: a)it's not active already, b)you have enough fury. In your scenarios you either want more or less triggers, which would have to be performed manually, so there is no skill-issue in that regard.


    What happens if a)it's not active already, b)you have enough fury but I want to keep hold of that fury for another 5 seconds and cast earthquake then instead?

    You're all busy designing a system that would only work for the top 1% of players and break the game for many others.
  • #16
    Quote from Bagstone

    I disagree. I think it's part of the game and the minimal mental effort a simple game like D3 can demand to take care about buffs.

    There were some implications that I really liked, for example when you had to cancel Archon to re-buff. It adds some salt to the really bland game play. Or the monk's Overawe rune, for which you can decide if you just want to re-buff it every few minutes or every 3 seconds for maximum efficiency (but at the cost of additional spirit).

    If you make these buffs permanent, it should cost you something, for example a passive or a rune (and the penalty should be to reduce the effect). Many times people complained about having "only" 6 skill slots; if you don't need to push three of them because they're "permanent buffs", how boring would the game become then?


    As far as archon goes that was unintentional. They didn't even want archon to be permanent like that, and it won't be after RoS.

    Pressing 3 and 4 every few minutes for prismatic armor and magic weapon does not add any mental stimulus or engaging gameplay. I can see for classes that don't have auto-refillable resources like Monk or Barb where recasting actually costs you something and and there is some level of cautiousness with timing your rebuffs. But for Wizard, DH, and Witch Doctor where the resource cost is negligible because it refills in seconds it's just redundant and uninspiring. It's not like you're casting these buffs in the heat of battle, it's always in town before you even pick the waypoint or inbetween packs of monsters. It's not about being lazy which some people might think, it's just a quality of life thing to me.

    My neurosis makes me recast the damn things after every monster pack anyways because it is in fact so negligible... I'd rather the need just not be there at all. Like with my DH, I hardly ever recast Animal Companion because my brain accepts its permanent. But with my Wizard I recast those stupid buffs in between every pack it feels Pavlovian. Might as well ring a bell after every engagement.

    The better solution to me would be to put a small boost on recast with a cooldown (so you don't feel obligated to spam them and you can play with timings). It would be nice to actually have the active skills on your toolbar be.... active. Right now all we have is passive skills on the active skill toolbar which should not even be the case. But if it is going to end up being that way just having them be permanent is better than the way it is now to me.

    To put it another way, think if all three of your passive skills had to be recasted every three minutes with F1 F2 and F3, wouldn't that just be ridiculous? That's all Storm Armor and Magic Weapon are: passive buffs that somehow got relegated to the role of active skills (and boring ones at that). Sure, they have different rune choices, but they are still completely passive.
  • #17
    Quote from Maffia

    What happens if a)it's not active already, b)you have enough fury but I want to keep hold of that fury for another 5 seconds and cast earthquake then instead?

    You're all busy designing a system that would only work for the top 1% of players and break the game for many others.


    You'd turn off auto-cast then, simple as that, it'd be an optional toggle like in WarCraft or WoW (Hunter pets). I don't invent such things ;)

    Quote from itirnitii

    Might as well ring a bell after every engagement.


    :Thumbs Up:
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #18
    Quote from Bagstone

    I disagree. I think it's part of the game and the minimal mental effort a simple game like D3 can demand to take care about buffs.


    Ice/Storm/Energy Armor
    Familiar
    Magic Weapon
    Animal Companion
    Mantras (excluding the 3s use)
    War Cry

    What is cerebral about recasting those every X seconds? What does it actually ADD to the gameplay?

    On my Barb I hit War Cry every time it's up for the fury. It's exactly like a DK or Warrior in WoW and people complain about that all the time. It's not FUN, it's just another button you have to hit every X seconds to maximize your resources.

    What is so fun about refreshing a mantra every 5 minutes? Wizard armors every 2 minutes?

    It's not remotely fun, it's completely annoying. The only real exception is mantras if you're using them specifically for the 3s bonus (which some do and some do not). At least that's an active choice you're making versus a "better keep this buff up" automated response. Pavlovian indeed.

    Maybe I find it annoying because I've played my WD so much and I appreciate the value of a "buff" like Soul Harvest which can be healing, resource generation, or damage... with a buff attached. It feels a lot less mechanical than keeping Prismatic Armor up. I've never once thought "gee, I really hate Soul Harvest" but every time I play my wizard I'm wondering why every four minutes I'm refreshing three buffs.

    I'm not supporting an auto-recast here. But I am saying that the base effect for most of these abilities should just be always-on, much like the DH animals. In well over a years worth of playing I have yet to feel that mashing War Cry every 30 seconds was engaging, or stimulating, gameplay.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #19
    TBH I think a number of skills could be switched to being permanent, see Familiar (Companion already is IIRC), whereas other such as the armours/magic weapon/war cry are probably more suited to the mantra treatment where the initial cast grants a bonus, but making them last forever too wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
  • #20
    Quote from Solmyr77

    Quote from Maffia

    What happens if a)it's not active already, b)you have enough fury but I want to keep hold of that fury for another 5 seconds and cast earthquake then instead?

    You're all busy designing a system that would only work for the top 1% of players and break the game for many others.


    You'd turn off auto-cast then, simple as that, it'd be an optional toggle like in WarCraft or WoW (Hunter pets). I don't invent such things ;)



    So....whenever you want to be a bit more tactical with your 'passive-active skills', you have to: press Esc, go into Options and turn off auto-recast; proceed to being a bit more tactical; press Esc, go into Options and turn it back on. Not a pain in the ass at all, especially in multiplayer games, where Esc doesn't pause the game (i.e., by the time you manage to turn it off, the moment has passed).
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