Did Blizzard want us to kite once more?

  • #1
    after going through the supposed changes and multitudes of theorycrafting threads, i am thinking that we may as well be back to kiting builds once more like how it was back in pre nerf inferno.

    also want to note that basing from the skill changes, they are focusing more on multiplaying rather then solo, seeing how class a toon skills compliments with class b toon skills/etc

    now, things can still change and they will but the concept itself is already there.

    would this actually kill our efficiency?

    if ever, wouldn't that mean we'll have to actually play more/longer to get 'supposedly' good drops?
  • #2
    we have no idea about moster powers (hp, dmg etc.) yet.

    So simply judging from skill changes yields nothing.


    I think they are smart enought not to overdo it again this time. I also don't think they will nerf xp/hour
    As for loot...we are getting loot 2.0 if all, it will be much much faster than every before until we acctually FIND updates for our chars

    They just want to add more deepth to the gameplay rather then "aw sreew that puddle of posion, i just Keep Standing in and heal myself up"
  • #3
    I dont think that it would go as hard it was back in D3 release. But i think the game will be much harder.. and that is awesome! I hope in future you need to focus more and think what you're doing. I believe the game will be the best game experience ever.. atleast for me.

    And what comes to the loot.. i think we will find more upgrades than so far. Hard to say how it turns out... but i have high hopes! Go Blizz Go! Give me the beta!! :P
  • #4
    You could always go back a few monster power levels if it's too hard. I'm sure that after farming enough armor, resist, HP, LPS, LoH and equipping some defense skills, MP10 won't be hard at all.
  • #5
    Kiteing are so booring so i hope they dont nerf to much. But what i can see so far it looks like it :(
  • #6
    It's highly illogical to believe that they'll reduce character DPS potential while leaving HP bloat alone.

    I mean, c'mon lol
  • #7
    If everyone was required to kite, it'd be bad. But I don't think it will be a requrement for everyone.

    More than likely, some kiting builds may come back...but if they do, that means people would be using their heads as far as what strategies make the most sense to use with kiting styles than everyone lawnmowing over act clear after act clear. Kiting means there's actual DANGER when too many monsters are around. That's GOOD.

    I mean, OP, keep in mind...you're asking about "efficiency" here. Efficiency is for people who want to get to the end the fastest, and with the AH going bye bye, acquiring the max amount of gold possible is not going to be something people are going to try for anymore. If anything, they'll want to maximize XP "efficiency," but really, as long as they keep the MP system as it is (in other words, keep the 0-10, where 0 is easiest for the least reward, and 10 is hardest for the most reward), then I don't think "efficiency" will be a problem. It'll be the same as it is now...

    If you're good at kiting and don't mind, go for higher MP and kill harder monsters. If you'd rather kill more monsters, not have to kite quite as much, tune down the MP a bit, and go at it that way.
    Pre AH-shutdown Transcendence/Spirit Regen build, used only found and crafted gear and gems, could handle MP7.
  • #8
    That grammar.

    Well, if you think anything other than facetanking while standing still the entire time is kiting, then yes. They are attempting to balance combat so you are forced to play smarter than most do now; dodging attacks, identifying targets that need to be killed first, ect.

    It will be much more engaging, and my guess is that to a lot of players it'll be too 'hard' at launch. So yes, they are defiantly moving the needle closer to 'kiting'. Not by a LOT, but by enough that I suspect people like the OP will feel the need to create another thread on it.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #9
    Quote from Bleu42

    Not by a LOT, but by enough that I suspect people like the OP will feel the need to create another thread on it.


    Well, any change ever to anything in a blizzard game summons hordes of crying whiners. Played WoW for 7 years, watching the game slowly plummet because of it.

    Now lets hope they actually make the difficulty in gameplay and not just numbers as it is now. I got high hopes for RoS, so dont let me down, Blizzard.
    I can see what you see not. Vision milky, then eyes rot.
    When you turn, they will be gone. Whispering their hidden song.

    Then you see what cannot be. Shadows move where light should be.
    Out of darkness, out of mind. Cast down into the Halls of the Blind
  • #10
    Sorry guys, i personaly dont like kiting at all .. I spent 1.5 months farming A1 Inferno when the game come out because i was unable to play A2! (because of shity drops!) I know that they will improve loot, but this 1.5 month which i mentioned, made me feel like puke of kiting ... So thnx but no thnx to kiting!
  • #11
    Quote from ama

    Sorry guys, i personaly dont like kiting at all .. I spent 1.5 months farming A1 Inferno when the game come out because i was unable to play A2! (because of shity drops!) I know that they will improve loot, but this 1.5 month which i mentioned, made me feel like puke of kiting ... So thnx but no thnx to kiting!


    Apparently you're not understanding what we are talking about.

    If Blizzard reaches it goal of tactical combat, there WILL be instances of 'kiting', IE; dodging attacks, getting away from enraged enemies, ect. It won't, if everything goes right, be a 1 shot scenario (with the proper gear) such as the wasps in act 2 of old inferno.

    Like I said before in my earlier post; They are trying to avoid how it goes right now; Stand in everything, it doesn't matter. They'd like to change it to where there are real actual threats, but ones you can avoid, or mostly avoid. If this qualifies as 'kiting' to you, then yes they want us to kite more. But I encourage you to look deeper into it instead of just raging.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #12
    Quote from Bleu42


    It will be much more engaging, and my guess is that to a lot of players it'll be too 'hard' at launch. So yes, they are defiantly moving the needle closer to 'kiting'. Not by a LOT, but by enough that I suspect people like the OP will feel the need to create another thread on it.


    maybe at start. but since it will be raining legendaries it's only a matter of days, dont worry. We will have the "good old" d2 days again soon enugh...
  • #13
    I actually miss kiting/dodging. DH has been my main since the start. I used to love kiting mobs and throwing down caltrops waiting till they get snared, then popping cluster bombs or the like then vaulting off. It was much more fun and took some skill to play back then, i had timing of arcane beams and distance of mortars figured out real well and was getting real good at dodging things like goatmen's spears and shaman fireballs etc.

    This old thread/video shows almost the exact way i used to play my DH, which was a hell of alot more fun than now.
    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/63508-inferno-clear-with-100k-gold/

    I feel like i have lost some skill of late since now all i have to do is run into a crowd, pop SP gloom, and start the grenade hose and let the lifesteal keep me alive forever. And this works on MP10 and I barely ever die. It really should not be this easy. I actually got so sick of playing this way i often ditch out my manticore for a windforce and play a different (yet far less efficent) build, that usually includes kiting and some skill to keep me awake and having some fun.

    So needless to say im phyched about these changes.. as long as they do them right!
  • #14
    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from Bleu42

    It will be much more engaging, and my guess is that to a lot of players it'll be too 'hard' at launch. So yes, they are defiantly moving the needle closer to 'kiting'. Not by a LOT, but by enough that I suspect people like the OP will feel the need to create another thread on it.


    maybe at start. but since it will be raining legendaries it's only a matter of days, dont worry. We will have the "good old" d2 days again soon enugh...



    Ah, yes, I remember you good sir.

    I'll start by asking what legendary drop rates have to do with the conversation at hand? Try to stay on topic please.

    But, if you really want to go down the OT road;
    When that legendary pool is over 200+, and when the top tiered legendarie's drop rates are scaled down, and because they will still be more random than D2's, and when you've got legendary sinks such as Gheed's Machine (looks like you'll gamble away items), new crafting recipes so you salvage other legendaries, and because a lot of mechanics will make legendaries BoA, and with the removal of the AH's, I think we'll be fine.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #15
    I really do hope we'll have to think about how we're going to tackle situations. At the moment all it is is stand in the middle of x amount of mobs and rely on your life-steal or damage reduction. Where's the fun in that?
    Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."

    "Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
  • #16
    I do not think Kiting is the purpose, but sufficient to say I think what Blizzard want to do ( and I think its right ) is to again inject that difficulty back into the game. So people can't just spam skills, fire and forget while face tanking like brainless button pusher. MP10 is suppose to be hard and require player skillful handling of the situation and better yet team and party. But what we have now is people just run around, face tank, shoot, and one shoot or getting one shooted.

    Injecting the tactical requirements back into the game is how I sees it.

    Then there's the problem of varieties. Back in D1 or D2, almost all the top end gear are able to be of use, but its not now. Not only did the Rare and Legendary do not scale well. They also lack in supporting different build / skill, and so. Care to check if anyone ever use a Polearm once into Paragon 10 or above. How about the Inquisitor which is suppose to be the top cloak for DH and its like nobody use it for real. The WD and DH are both suppose to be able to wield shields, but how many actually able to made it work right up to P100 doing MP10.

    The real issue is the loot and loot quality and variations. Blizzard need to fix that so all variation of weapon and armor can be used in all kind of combo and able to deliver various skill / build synergy instead of all only sticking to one ( and then they have to nerf the said skill )
  • #17
    Quote from Ducha

    I really do hope we'll have to think about how we're going to tackle situations. At the moment all it is is stand in the middle of x amount of mobs and rely on your life-steal or damage reduction. Where's the fun in that?


    I personally don't mind that if I don't have to think, to be honest. ARPGs are not necessarily tactical games in which you approach every enemy with a certain strategy and take them apart one by one. It's rather hack'n'slay, without a break, like in the good old days of Diablo 1. LS makes it more luck-dependent because your HP jumps up and down too quickly, but in general I like this kind of game play.
  • #18
    If Blizzard want people to fight more tactically, they absolutely have to make sure that:
    1. mechanics can't be overgeared completely
    2. no class has exploity builds like CMWW, Run Like the Wind or perma-LS Rapid Fire
    3. builds that rely on kiting and dodging have enough tools to support such playstyle - reliable CC and nuking power

    Of course, at some point people will get the gear that will allow them tank most of the damage (otherwise getting higher EHP gear will be pointless). Blizzard should account for that when redesigning mechanics so that the two playstyles - "I'm tanky, so I never waste time on kiting/dodging, but my damage is rather low" and "I'm squishy, so I always kite and dodge, but I melt stuff in 1-2 seconds" - provide roughly the same farming effectiveness.
  • #19
    Quote from Bleu42
    They are attempting to balance combat so you are forced to play smarter than most do now; dodging attacks, identifying targets that need to be killed first, ect.


    They actually think dodging stuff is not fun. According to Bashiok, they designed the current hit mechanic the way it is (getting hit miles away when you run away during enemies hit animation), because it wouldn't be fun to run back and forth all the time. In spite of the fact they also added mobs whose main mechanic is to dodge them all the time (the big hammer mobs in the hell rifts), it would make Bashioks statement even more stupid, like all the false stuff he told us in the beginning (for example he told us mob damage doesn't scale with player numbers in pre-nerf inferno).
    I think they want us to dodge stuff now, which shows me they had no real plan to start with in the first place. Otherwise they wouldn't have made Bashiok tell us something like that.
  • #20
    Quote from Bleu42


    Ah, yes, I remember you good sir.

    I'll start by asking what legendary drop rates have to do with the conversation at hand? Try to stay on topic please.

    But, if you really want to go down the OT road;
    When that legendary pool is over 200+, and when the top tiered legendarie's drop rates are scaled down, and because they will still be more random than D2's, and when you've got legendary sinks such as Gheed's Machine (looks like you'll gamble away items), new crafting recipes so you salvage other legendaries, and because a lot of mechanics will make legendaries BoA, and with the removal of the AH's, I think we'll be fine.


    Nobody ever called me "good sir" here ^^

    Drop rates and kiting have something to do with each other IMO cause both have significant influence on the game difficulty. As it is now, you have to kite as long as you dont overgear content. Of course the better the drop rates are, the faster you overgear content. That is one of the points why i am still quite sceptical about loot 2.0 cause I fear that it will be like in D2 again ( tons of drops, difficulty too low cause balanced around selffound ).

    I like that they implement more mechanics to take gear out of the game again and I hope it will be enugh. i think the ladder is allready a big step in the rigth direction.

    But we will see what they announce at Blizzcon. I remain sceptical though...
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