New ability caps

  • #41
    A couple things to consider about this issue...

    1) Like some others pointed out, higher damage on weapons. In just the DPS department, that will make a major difference, as if some people only stack CC and CD for damage purposes, higher weapon damage will play a big role.

    2) I do realize that CC does affect how certain passive and active skills work, and yes, some might be a LITTLE less effective...CM Wizards for example (not just with WW, others too). Then again, when they lowered the proc rate on Wicked Wind, people seeped out of the woodwork crying about how the build would die, sure enough, it's still around. Don't let your fear of higher challenge talk you out of appreciating the value here.

    3) While there may be a cap on CC on ITEMS, it'll still be reasonably hard to get to for most players. Why? Primarily due to the Auction House going away. With the AH around, it's STUPIDLY easy to max out your crit. Without the AH, and people relying on drops and trade? For someone starting a new character from scratch, unless they have a ton of spare gear saved in their stash, it may take them a decent amount of time to gear up that character to max their CC.

    4) Loot 2.0, as well as the item affixes and legendary affixes being introduced, will help with this big time...
    -A cap on CD will ONLY affect damage, but part of the motivation for these new item effects is that by equipping specific items, insanely high damage isn't needed, or may not be preferred, as the items make different builds more EFFECTIVE. Right now, we have thousands of people thinking that efficiency = super high DPS. And they're not wrong. But truthfully, I'd rather have a character that's slightly weaker in the damage department, but that has items that make his or her skills work slickly, like a well-oiled machine, and offer a varied style of gameplay and survivability that simple damage stacking doesn't offer. Damage stacking in and of itself presents shallow, one-note gameplay. Capping CD may drop players' DPS, but it'll require players to gear smarter...which is ultimately a good thing.
    -In the same way, a cap on CC may make certain skills work slightly less effectively (CM Wizards, for example, may see a slight drop in their cooldown reductions...provided CM even stays the way it is when the updates come), however again...certain items may offer effects that make up the difference. Check out the list...may be an early list of tested effects, but look at it...there are effects that kill cooldowns, offer crazy survivability options, health restoration, resource restoration, shrine effects, town portal effects, etc. Sure, right now, passives like Critical Mass are seen as godly...but when the item updates come? You might not need a passive like that anymore, once you find a particular item.

    All in all, I'm a big supporter of this. Caps don't prevent people from being godly, they just ensure that people don't end up exploiting the lack of a limit, and pretty much break the game. Yes, everyone has fun facerolling, but truly smart and well-geared players/characters can still faceroll with capped stats...they just need to use their heads instead of saying..."ooh! this number bigger than that number!"
    Pre AH-shutdown Transcendence/Spirit (Re)gen build, uses only found and crafted gear and gems, can handle MP7.
  • #42
    Quote from Ackbarspiff

    I have always been against hardcaps, and i will always be against it.(softcaps are fine) Its a shortcut you use instead of fixing the bad design. To get around this you could change the math behind the numbers, so that you need more crit to hit numbers closing to 60-70%.

    exactly my thought, hard caps much more artificial, they already have diminishing returns system on dodge, res, armor with hard cap at 100% in infinity i believe
    dr might be annoying to some players but most will either use calculators or wont care/know about it anyway,
    its feels much better to be able to go over some 'soft cap' knowing i still get something out of it (even if probably not worth it) than to just hit a wall and waste stat or throw away awesome item and look for something else
    as a sidenote - hard caps will make anything without massive main stat/average dmg (cant rly cap those two, can they...?) a bad item

    btw: @maka combat ratings are actually for level transfering anti-inflation purposes, not much to do with dr here
  • #43
    A hard cap I believe is the only solution now. We already have a huge contrast in players DPS and a very high inflation of monsters hit points, MP10 is just more tedious…
    Our current mindset comes from the present state of the game, while with ROS all these should be different. It would preposterous to have our current cc, IAS and CD and a 3000dps weapon!

    And something about nerfs…

    A 600-1000 damage 1h (1120dps) sword, with 60% cc and 600CD does 5120damage/s

    A 1600-2200 damage 1h (3360dps) sword, with 20% cc and 200CD does 4704damage/s
    Not so bad…
    My math could be wrong.. feel free to correct..
  • #44
    Quote from estereth

    btw: @maka combat ratings are actually for level transfering anti-inflation purposes, not much to do with dr here


    As far as I know, WoW ratings use diminishing returns. Are you telling me that's not the case?
  • #45
    Quote from maka

    As far as I know, WoW ratings use diminishing returns. Are you telling me that's not the case?


    Dodge and parry do, much the same as armor and all resistances do, and for the same reason.

    Going from 98% dodge to 99% dodge is basically halfing your incoming damage (excluding attacks that aren't dodgeable) whereas going from 50% to 51% dodge is basically cutting your incoming damage by 2%. Therefore, you should need 25x as much dodge rating to go from 98% to 99% as you need from 50% to 51%.

    In that regard, the percentages are diminishing, but the actual per-point damage reduction is linear.

    Hit, Crit, Haste, Mastery, Expertise - those are not diminishing returns in WoW. One point is always X%.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
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  • #46
    tbh i just forgot about parry and dodge diminishing, bit weird considering ratio needed to be correctly balanced as those diminished at diffrent ratio, so keeping tchem at proper levels was big deal - checked on Ej to be sure, both needed constant value to get 1% increase on character sheet and were diminished afterwards (dunno if that information was visible or not)
    offensive stats dont have dr as shaggy wrote - devs just run max gear sims before each expansion and make conversion ratios based on results

    regardless, combat ratings look dull and boring
  • #47
    IMO caps will be hit and then you are forced to stack defence you dont need because you have enough already.

    If i want to make a superfast stunblock support role with low DPS so be it.
  • #48
    Hm...90% IAS...curious to reroll for other stats. These new caps sound interesting. :)
    Bandyto#2350
    EU
  • #49
    Thanks, shaggy and estereth.
  • #50
    Quote from CardinalMDM

    3) While there may be a cap on CC on ITEMS, it'll still be reasonably hard to get to for most players. Why? Primarily due to the Auction House going away. With the AH around, it's STUPIDLY easy to max out your crit. Without the AH, and people relying on drops and trade? For someone starting a new character from scratch, unless they have a ton of spare gear saved in their stash, it may take them a decent amount of time to gear up that character to max their CC.


    I think this is the primary concern for the implementation of caps. Because people have reached super high numbers they need to have a band-aid solution in place for the short term that gets people out and needing to adjust their gear. Combine that with the lack of the AH and loot 2.0, people will be finding new intersting drops and this whole cap business might not even be an issue for a typical D3 player. The high end players who still trade or seek out only specific gear may hit this cap, but then once they reach it they can work on another stat to go for.

    it seems like it's limiting choice, but I think it's really opening choice up. If you want to get beyond your item cap, you have to choose a skill now that pushes it. For example, if you can crit 90% of the time, what does it matter if you have a skill that increases your crit by 20%? That's a waste, just get the skill that does something else, you'll crit anyway. Now if you can only crit 40% of the time? maybe you want to crit more often to proc an effect on a passive or item. now you might want to choose to use a skill that increases that crit.

    There's layers of systems are being affected by RoS and it looks like they are starting to affect eachohter. It's going to make gameplay and the skills you use have much more of an impact. Just looking at the skil changes that are being tested it really seems they want to remove the skills considered "useless" or to make them more useful than they are now and a lot of the time gear plays into that.
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  • #51
    If these values don't include gems, none of them are a real issue. It actually opens up more room for EHP and utility. Also, it's not like ehp doesn't increase your effective dps. The only time these caps matters would be attack speed break points and it's really only an issue with certain abilities and mostly for 2 handers. The caps are set at a pretty high threshold (if it's without gems) if it's with gems too then crit dmg is too low comparatively.
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