New ability caps

  • #21
    Awesome! Also I never stated this on the forum but I'm pretty sure lifesteal is being removed altogether or kept on legacy version items.
    With the caps going down, this means we get freed up slots to roll unique affixes on. It will be great customizing your gear. No longer we'll need a cc/ias/chd stat on everything but we can save that slot for a cool unique legendary affix.. Imagine not having to use gloves because you're already capped so you can use frostburns, haha.
  • #22
    Quote from huertgenwald

    Quote from GingerAnger

    Almost any Skorn user with 100% chd emerald will be over 250% chd.


    As i understood the datamined strings the cap counts ONLY for items.
    So the questions is: Are socketed gems in items a seperate entity with a seperate cap ? :beg:


    hmmm interesting, interesting indeed. This is one of those questions that (in good Blizzard fashion) could go either way.

    The Gem drops into the item, and increases the items stats, or gives it new stats...
    The Gem becomes a unique addition, through, but not included on the item...

    I'm inclined to think it would count as, "part of the item" than separate, but we don't know till we know. Good question there.
  • #23
    Quote from Zakumene


    Since i don't have trifecta everything - i honestly think all i need to do is change my crit gems to +dmg gems in my weapons and I would only lose a little bit of dps. I'm optimized around mp7-mp8 right now. But if you're decked out rolling through mp10 like it's butter - then you'll definitely notice it.


    Yeah, I checked my stats from gear (not base stats)
    47% crit
    245% crit dmg not counting gems (ls e.fury)
    34% ias


    While I would never trade crit for ias, if given the choice. It's not a huge loss to shift 7 crit to 6 ias and 5% crit dmg. (ias is my worst dps stat of the 4 per slot)
  • #24
    Quote from riptide

    Quote from Mini641

    These changes are needed in D3. Now we wont have to be hunting tri-fecta items. This opens our characters up to new types of gearing options that we would normally overlook because they lacked the super OP stats.

    Anyone complaining about this change obviously had no issue stacking these stats and ignoring 95% of the games items, However for people that want to be flexible in our gearing this is a god send.


    Well you will be hunting trifectas, it will just be avg dmg + 2 of the other stats on every piece that can get it. Also,you should keep in mind, if we end up not getting these stats from bracers/belt/pants/set bonuses.. it becomes much much harder to max these stats. Especially if gems are counted, btw if they are counted Ruby > emerald for all.


    Some of the caps should be easy to get. Like the Crit damage cap cna be hit with 1 weapon and socket. That would open up rings, amulets and gloves so we wouldnt need CD on them making other options like +Loh, All Res and other less wanted stats as viable.

    Obviously we will still need to focus on certain stats for our class builds but i think it should be that way. I just want it to be a tad more flexible than the way it is now (tri or quadfecta or bust).
  • #25
    Quote from itirnitii

    What was it? 50 points in Crit Chance % for +25%? 50 points in Critical Hit Damage for 100%? That makes Crit 65% and Crit Damage 350% max.

    It's 10% crit and 50% crit damage.

    TAB "OFFENSE"
    Attack speed: +0,2%
    crit chance: +0,2%
    crit dmg: +1%
    Cooldown reduc : +0,2%
  • #26
    Quote from Andead

    Quote from itirnitii

    What was it? 50 points in Crit Chance % for +25%? 50 points in Critical Hit Damage for 100%? That makes Crit 65% and Crit Damage 350% max.

    It's 10% crit and 50% crit damage.

    TAB "OFFENSE"
    Attack speed: +0,2%
    crit chance: +0,2%
    crit dmg: +1%
    Cooldown reduc : +0,2%


    And there's 5% base crit chance and 50% base crit hit damage, so might be more like 55% CC and 350% CD.

    Although I hope items+base+paragon all goes together, otherwise the values are too high again (add skills in the mix and you're almost at where we're now).
  • #27
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Andead

    Quote from itirnitii

    What was it? 50 points in Crit Chance % for +25%? 50 points in Critical Hit Damage for 100%? That makes Crit 65% and Crit Damage 350% max.

    It's 10% crit and 50% crit damage.

    TAB "OFFENSE"
    Attack speed: +0,2%
    crit chance: +0,2%
    crit dmg: +1%
    Cooldown reduc : +0,2%


    And there's 5% base crit chance and 50% base crit hit damage, so might be more like 55% CC and 350% CD.

    Although I hope items+base+paragon all goes together, otherwise the values are too high again (add skills in the mix and you're almost at where we're now).

    I guess skills still go over the cap, like now. Like it said, in the blizzard post are maxed item percentages.
  • #28
    Given that we have 10% crit chance and 50% crit damage from paragon (and 5% crit chance and 50% crit damage baseline), we should have expected something like this.

    One thing I'd point out is that, at least according to the few items we've seen so far, it seems they have less crit/crit damage on them. So we'll have to see just how many items we need to hardcap these stats. We may be hunting trifectas just as much still. I'd hope if they're going the hardcap route that they'd be smart enough to reduce the total number of items we need to reach the cap... otherwise I don't see much of a point in it.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #29
    Quote from shaggy

    Given that we have 10% crit chance and 50% crit damage from paragon (and 5% crit chance and 50% crit damage baseline), we should have expected something like this.

    One thing I'd point out is that, at least according to the few items we've seen so far, it seems they have less crit/crit damage on them. So we'll have to see just how many items we need to hardcap these stats. We may be hunting trifectas just as much still. I'd hope if they're going the hardcap route that they'd be smart enough to reduce the total number of items we need to reach the cap... otherwise I don't see much of a point in it.

    Yeah, exactly. Though it seems so obvious, I really hope they don't overlook this.
  • #30
    This change is mostly about core mechanics for attacking, in my book

    Look at Crit Chance. I have a barbarian with 55% crit chance, using hammer of the ancent, which effectively puts my crit chance at about 75%. so every 4 hits I do not crit. That is not how crit is supposed to work. Instead of being happy that I landed a crit, I am angry that I land a normal attack. since I have 500% crit damage, normal attacks deal a 5th of the damage of a crit, and is essentially a wasted hit.

    so the way the game works now, crits are the "normal" attacks, and normal attacks is "missing the target". To have a scenario where crits are strong hits and normal attacks are useful still, we need to have crit chance caps, and we defenetely need a much smaller cap between the damage output of a crit and normal attacks.

    I am amazed that the game did not launch with these caps! yes it matters for what builds you can use, but think about what I just stated. This is a needed change
  • #31
    Quote from Andead

    Quote from itirnitii

    What was it? 50 points in Crit Chance % for +25%? 50 points in Critical Hit Damage for 100%? That makes Crit 65% and Crit Damage 350% max.

    It's 10% crit and 50% crit damage.

    TAB "OFFENSE"
    Attack speed: +0,2%
    crit chance: +0,2%
    crit dmg: +1%
    Cooldown reduc : +0,2%


    Ah, thank you, something in the back of my mind was telling me to look them up.

    So with 5/50 base, 40/250 from items, and 10/50 from paragon you can have: 55cc/350cd max?
  • #32
    Quote from Bonzini

    This change is mostly about core mechanics for attacking, in my book

    Look at Crit Chance. I have a barbarian with 55% crit chance, using hammer of the ancent, which effectively puts my crit chance at about 75%. so every 4 hits I do not crit. That is not how crit is supposed to work. Instead of being happy that I landed a crit, I am angry that I land a normal attack. since I have 500% crit damage, normal attacks deal a 5th of the damage of a crit, and is essentially a wasted hit.

    so the way the game works now, crits are the "normal" attacks, and normal attacks is "missing the target". To have a scenario where crits are strong hits and normal attacks are useful still, we need to have crit chance caps, and we defenetely need a much smaller cap between the damage output of a crit and normal attacks.

    I am amazed that the game did not launch with these caps! yes it matters for what builds you can use, but think about what I just stated. This is a needed change


    Pretty much agree with this. To me it seems strange that you'd even have a crit for more than 1 in 4 shots. At the very most doing crit damage more than half the time feels extremely bizarre. Most other games I have played has made me feel like crit is pretty rare like 1 in 10, but maybe I'm just remembering poorly.

    Having two high of a crit chance means that the monster's HP pools have to be scaled around crit damage, and not regular damage. Then when you do normal damage you might as well not even have attacked that turn at all.
  • #33
    Quote from itirnitii

    So with 5/50 base, 40/250 from items, and 10/50 from paragon you can have: 55cc/350cd max?


    Correct. You'd also have 40% IAS from gear and 10% from Paragon for 50% total.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #34
    I have always been against hardcaps, and i will always be against it.(softcaps are fine) Its a shortcut you use instead of fixing the bad design. To get around this you could change the math behind the numbers, so that you need more crit to hit numbers closing to 60-70%.
  • #35
    Don't really like the idea of caps especially when taking Paragon bonuses into account. Yes, you can get additional IAS, CC, Crit etc. But looking at the experiences needed to max out those bonuses, the advantage just might get to big (instead of getting less advantage for every Paragon point). Instead of using Paragon points to smooth out drawbacks of your items or to max out a specific stat it just gets more important to get those 700 Paragon points as quickly as possible.

    A problem with caps is that they again don't make you choose (one important part about different stats on items: do I take the item with CC or IAS for example?). Just go for the caps and add as much main stat and +damage as possible. In the end the characters might look more similar than they do now. IMHO it would be much better if they restrict the number of offensive (and maybe defensive/utility) affixes that can roll on items. Already got CC/CD on an item? No IAS or damage possible. IAS/CD? No CC or damage, etc. This would force people to choose if they wanted to max out specific affixes or go for a more balanced item build. You could go for the highest crit chance possible with high CD, or try out a speed build with as much extra damage as possible or go for getting a bit of everything.

    One problem of D3s current itemization besides the prevalence of CD ist the fact that you just try to get more of everything and only need to choose between affixes depending on your ingame wealth.

    Thinking about it a fun mechanic might be something like variable caps: do not cap all 3 stats but 2, allowing 1 to go beyond the cap. You then would be forced to choose between high attack speed, cc or cd depending on your build leaving more room for more different builds.

    Another interesting thing might be something like a global cap: Don't cap all 3 stats but give each stat specific points towards a global cap: lets' take the values of 250%, 40% and 40% (adding all the others might get a bit complicated):
    Global cap of 1000:
    1 point of CD would be worth 2 cap points.
    1 point of CC would be worth 6 cap points.
    1 points of ias would be worth 6 cap points.

    In that case a player could go for a balanced approach with 250% CD, 41% CC and 41% IAS. Or they could try to get 100% IAS (600 points), 60% CC (360 Points), leaving room for 20% (40 points) CD.
  • #36
    Quote from Ackbarspiff

    I have always been against hardcaps, and i will always be against it.(softcaps are fine) Its a shortcut you use instead of fixing the bad design. To get around this you could change the math behind the numbers, so that you need more crit to hit numbers closing to 60-70%.


    You mean diminishing returns. The problem with diminishing returns is that it's really opaque to the player; so when you see "+10% CC" on an item, you don't know whether that 10% is actually 10% or if it's some smaller number. Well, you'll know after you equip it, but it's not predictive, which is a very big downside. That would basically leave us with a WoW-style rating system, which I really dislike.
  • #37
    Those values appear a bit low. I believe that the avg WWCM wizard is over the attack speed, crit chance AND crit dmg caps.

    Then again, don't nerf the stacking. Stop people from wanting to stack a certain stat that much.
  • #38
    As I have already said in the front page comments unless there are other effects to make up for this (I don't mean "build changing legs" they will offer one more build each most likely).

    Seems to me adding caps just goes right ahead and takes all the fun out of the game. Want to make an uber fast monk, ias frenzy barb, well you can't. It tries to fix a problem that does not even exist, the problem is that there are only cd cc ias to choose from.

    The caps will be manditory for every char every build then u just add as much main stat vit as you can afford on all other gear. In what way does this open up new builds?

    Creating more options to choose from allong side cc cd ias would force choice, three more should do it, then "the player" can decide what to use depending on build. Want to have a 120 ias barb go ahead but you can't have all that cd or cc or other stat that looks nice, up to you choose.

    I think every sc lvl 60 on my account is over the ias cc and cd cap my wizz (not ww) has 80 or so ias to make the build work, you can guess that it wont with 50% (with 10 from p lvl's).

    I get that nefing is sometimes a must but this is lazy the above (D2 version) way worked very nicely thanks very much.
  • #39
    more wep dmg more main stat so getting balnaced that skills will also play roll with more dmg from abilities

  • #40
    i don't like idea of caps but if they add new cool uniques or add new stats u can get instead of trifecta items i am up for it but i have bad feeling that it just force us to stack not caped stats

    good design would be to make game hard again (and especialy with nerfed lifestealand and all healing methods altogether) and making high survivability actually way to increase effectivity

    but if they leave us with with all stats over the cap and give us nothing instead that just make everyone with good gear pissed before they even start
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