Difference between ladder and non-ladder

  • #21
    Quote from riptide

    Quote from maka

    Quote from riptide

    Quote from maka

    Quote from FoxBatD2

    As someone who comes and goes from the game (...)

    Key phrase right here.

    Hate to break it to you, but he just described the majority of the playerbase.

    Source, please?
    What do you mean by "playerbase"? Do you mean people that bought the boxed version? If so, most of those people won't ever play the game again, so obviously they shouldn't even be considered when thinking about solutions for the map.


    What are you even talking about? What map? He was talking about another issue entirely... it was about character slots and the auto deletion mechanic in d2.

    And yes the majority of players to ever play diablo 2 "come and go" as in nobody plays from inception of ladder until now. Not even you. I would be shocked if there was a single person in the world to play d2 everyday since launch and not take extended breaks. Let alone the majority.

    It will be the same for d3 in 10 years, hell it already is for my entire friends list of people that have d3.

    Source? How about experience(even your own experience) and logic?

    This is why you shouldn't post whilst under the influence. I meant to write "solutions for the game", not "map". Sorry about that.
  • #22
    Quote from Blackybear

    Hello everyone,

    I was wondering what would be the difference between ladder and non-ladder. Because in D2 there was a difference between these to (for example you could make some ''runewords'' on ladder like Spirit witch you could not make in the non-ladder system).
    What do you guys think will happen in the new upcoming ladder system?

    Blackybear#1770
    I vaguely remember seeing an old development roadmap ages ago where the plan was to develop for 2 expansions (I could be wrong - it was a long time ago when there was first indications of Project Titan as well). So, I won't be surprised if some things are being held back like runeword equivelents which may feature in a possible 2nd expansion.

    At this stage, it's just speculation but I would imagine there is no difference in terms of material incentives (no extra items etc).

    It's to my mind, merely a gameplay option and the decision to play competitively or not is a decision that's entirely up to you without external influence or incentives.

    As someone has already pointed out, the paragon 2.0 makes it ideal for a "main" overall ladder as it presumably never ends but it's something that you can ignore if you're the type of player who just likes to take your time playing the game casually.

    As for myself, I don't mind whether they add incentives (or even disincentive) a ladder mode because I'll be playing it just for the competitive nature of this gameplay mode.

    One thing I'm warely of is the HC aspect of this; dying will be just a temporary set back while you compete against others who can level up in no time (to apply their ladder shared paragons )
    Remember D2, dying in the ladder really did mean forcing you back at the bottom.

    With the proposed shared paragon, I suspect the shared paragon works in the ladder which then rolls into the normal account when the ladder finishes.

    I hope they develop it such that HC ladder characters start from the beginning (upon each character death) again without use of shared paragons at least.
  • #23
    Okey, so can someone that played D2 ladders and have sense answer these questions with care?

    Q1. Will ladder be a different section in the game, with a limit of x characters while non-ladder have the current number of 12 slots?

    Q2. Or else.. If I have full with characters on the non-ladder characterscreen, how do I handle if I want to play a ladder? -or- vice versa.

    Q3. And when the ladder is over, is it possible to put over gear, xp and gold to non-ladder?

    Swedish Official Fansite www.Diablo3pvp.se

  • #24
    Quote from Enkeria

    Okey, so can someone that played D2 ladders and have sense answer these questions with care?

    Q1. Will ladder be a different section in the game, with a limit of x characters while non-ladder have the current number of 12 slots?

    Q2. Or else.. If I have full with characters on the non-ladder characterscreen, how do I handle if I want to play a ladder? -or- vice versa.

    Q3. And when the ladder is over, is it possible to put over gear, xp and gold to non-ladder?

    I can tell you, how it was like in D2, I doubt anyone knows, how they'll handle things in D3.

    1) No such limits existed in D2. A char was flagged as ladder or non-ladder, they played in completely seperated worlds (like hc vs regular) and on a ladder reset, all chars + items were transfered into the non-ladder world.

    So you're right, they'll have to make some decisions regarding char slot limit. Maybe you won't be able to carry over a ladder-char to non-ladder if there are already 12 slots used up.

    2) TBD, no such issues in D2, I would expect them to give us 12 slots each for both ladder and non-ladder.

    3) That's how it was handled in D2. Even ladder-only runewords for example would find their way into the non-ladder world through this. It wasn't even optional as you might have thought, ladder reset meant ground zero for everyone.
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #25
    Quote from Enkeria

    Okey, so can someone that played D2 ladders and have sense answer these questions with care?

    Q1. Will ladder be a different section in the game, with a limit of x characters while non-ladder have the current number of 12 slots?

    Q2. Or else.. If I have full with characters on the non-ladder characterscreen, how do I handle if I want to play a ladder? -or- vice versa.

    Q3. And when the ladder is over, is it possible to put over gear, xp and gold to non-ladder?

    Q1-2 No one knows as you effectively had unlimited char slots in D2.

    Q3 At end of ladder everything is usually switched over to non-ladder, this would mean that ladder chars would be using up your normal char slots, although as there is no fundamental difference between chars of the same class apart from their name so the items gold and XP are the only important things.
  • #26
    Quote from Enkeria

    Okey, so can someone that played D2 ladders and have sense answer these questions with care?

    Q1. Will ladder be a different section in the game, with a limit of x characters while non-ladder have the current number of 12 slots?

    Q2. Or else.. If I have full with characters on the non-ladder characterscreen, how do I handle if I want to play a ladder? -or- vice versa.

    No one can give you a definite answer on that because Blizzard hasn't said a word about that so far, and even if they did and I missed something, it's all subject to change. Especially for Q1 we have no clue yet :-)

    Quote from Enkeria

    Q3. And when the ladder is over, is it possible to put over gear, xp and gold to non-ladder?

    Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

    When a season ends all of the paragon experience you have earned will be rolled into the appropriate pool of paragon experience for the account and you will be able to start at 0 again in the new season.

    This is all still a work in progress and subject to change but that is what we are currently intending.

    Source: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9948295103#7

    That's the only info we have so far.

    @All: OP asks for facts, don't pull up some guesstimates based on D2 experience and make up facts. Blizzard has mentioned several times that they want to change things, so comparing a D3 ladder to how it was done in D2 might even give you the opposite of where D3 is heading.
  • #27
    Quote from Bagstone

    @All: OP asks for facts, don't pull up some guesstimates based on D2 experience and make up facts. Blizzard has mentioned several times that they want to change things, so comparing a D3 ladder to how it was done in D2 might even give you the opposite of where D3 is heading.

    This right here is why I can't understand why people are losing their heads over ladder-mode already. D2 had an interesting, but incredibly restricting approach to how a ladder can be made. For its time, it was great, but a decade later, Blizzard has the understanding and resources to implement ladder entirely different from how it was done in D2. The end goal is still the same, but the player pool doesn't even have to be split - we could, for example, see Blizzard tinker out a system where ladder and non-ladder characters still are able to play together.
    Of all things important in Online Gaming, there is one thing no game developer can "fix" - it's community.
  • #28
    Quote from "Bagstone" »

    @All: OP asks for facts, don't pull up some guesstimates based on D2 experience and make up facts.

    Talking to me? I just stated D2 facts because D2 experience was asked for. They may or may not take the same approach this time. Think, I was clear about that ;)

    Quote from "Ferret" »

    we could, for example, see Blizzard tinker out a system where ladder and non-ladder characters still are able to play together.

    ... removing the whole point of having a ladder in the first place ;)

    I don't need some official version of diabloprogress. To me, the main incentive to the Diablo (meaning the whole franchise) ladder is the fresh start for everyone. That really helps the game last longer. Just think about how much time you've spent at levels 1-59 during during the past months compared to May 2012. It can be a lot of fun to start over, just not when you're the only one and everyone around you is miles ahead. Not opening the PandorAH's box now.. ;)
    I don't need a visually pimped Excel sheet that tells me, which dude from somewhere has accumulated the most p-exp over the course of 3 years ;)
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #29
    Quote from Ferret

    Quote from Bagstone

    @All: OP asks for facts, don't pull up some guesstimates based on D2 experience and make up facts. Blizzard has mentioned several times that they want to change things, so comparing a D3 ladder to how it was done in D2 might even give you the opposite of where D3 is heading.

    This right here is why I can't understand why people are losing their heads over ladder-mode already. D2 had an interesting, but incredibly restricting approach to how a ladder can be made. For its time, it was great, but a decade later, Blizzard has the understanding and resources to implement ladder entirely different from how it was done in D2. The end goal is still the same, but the player pool doesn't even have to be split - we could, for example, see Blizzard tinker out a system where ladder and non-ladder characters still are able to play together.

    If ladder and non-ladder chars play together you will either loose the point of playing together or loose the point of having a ladder.
  • #30
    Quote from Solmyr77

    Quote from "Bagstone" »

    @All: OP asks for facts, don't pull up some guesstimates based on D2 experience and make up facts.

    Talking to me? I just stated D2 facts because D2 experience was asked for. They may or may not take the same approach this time. Think, I was clear about that ;)

    Talking to no one in particular, I wrote this before reading anyone else's answers.

    What bothers me a bit is that except for this one small snippet from Travis we have heard nothing about ladder, absolutely nothing, yet some people sometimes pretend they are "Mister KnowItAll". Every other day threads pop up with people asking for factual answers. Then there's an entire discussion and some people present their opinions in a way to make it look like facts (i.e., "look, this is how I think it will be done because of <whatever>, so in D3 ladder all enemies will be purple cows, just so you know."), blurring the fact that we know nothing.

    Imho it would be better if the first reply would be "we know nothing, but refer to this thread for discussing that matter" (and then we create a thread that clearly states that it's a discussion, or use one of the existing discussion threads). It's just that in all existing threads it's not made clear, so new forum readers see that there's a discussion that seems to be revolving around some ladder news they might have missed, and therefore open up a new thread asking for a definite answer (while there is none).

    It's much like paragon 2.0, for which Travis recently created a Q&A of current known facts - and all of the sudden the paragon threads stopped. Discussion is fine, misinforming people by pretending your opinion/guesstimates are facts is not.
  • #31
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Solmyr77

    Quote from "Bagstone" »

    @All: OP asks for facts, don't pull up some guesstimates based on D2 experience and make up facts.

    Talking to me? I just stated D2 facts because D2 experience was asked for. They may or may not take the same approach this time. Think, I was clear about that ;)

    Talking to no one in particular, I wrote this before reading anyone else's answers.

    What bothers me a bit is that except for this one small snippet from Travis we have heard nothing about ladder, absolutely nothing, yet some people sometimes pretend they are "Mister KnowItAll". Every other day threads pop up with people asking for factual answers. Then there's an entire discussion and some people present their opinions in a way to make it look like facts (i.e., "look, this is how I think it will be done because of <whatever>, so in D3 ladder all enemies will be purple cows, just so you know."), blurring the fact that we know nothing.

    Imho it would be better if the first reply would be "we know nothing, but refer to this thread for discussing that matter" (and then we create a thread that clearly states that it's a discussion, or use one of the existing discussion threads). It's just that in all existing threads it's not made clear, so new forum readers see that there's a discussion that seems to be revolving around some ladder news they might have missed, and therefore open up a new thread asking for a definite answer (while there is none).

    It's much like paragon 2.0, for which Travis recently created a Q&A of current known facts - and all of the sudden the paragon threads stopped. Discussion is fine, misinforming people by pretending your opinion/guesstimates are facts is not.

    I know. It's why I mentioned everything is just speculation at this point in my reply though it's still nice to hear opinons which may or may not help towards helping the designers towards making design decisions that favor what players like to see. There's just little to no facts about a ladder system at this time.

  • #32
    Quote from Maffia

    If ladder and non-ladder chars play together you will either loose the point of playing together or loose the point of having a ladder.

    Remove any possibility of item trading/dropping along with making sure that the ladder character is at least on the same level in terms of character and gear in that run, what exactly speaks against it?

    I consider such a scenario to be very, very unlikely, and its purely hypothetically simply for the sake of pointing that mechanically, Blizzard has a lot more leeway do things differently from D2's ladder. We don't even know if all different types of ladders implemented will start at absolute zero.

    There are just too many assumptions right now based on how D2 worked. Not too long ago, the notion of having ranked and unranked players playing in the same pool was ludicrous for SC2 as well, yet Blizzard found a way to make it work, and to top it of, it seemed like the most logical thing in the world when they implemented it.
    Of all things important in Online Gaming, there is one thing no game developer can "fix" - it's community.
  • #33
    Quote from Bagstone

    What bothers me a bit is that except for this one small snippet from Travis we have heard nothing about ladder, absolutely nothing, yet some people sometimes pretend they are "Mister KnowItAll".

    Well, I don't know about you, but to me, discussion is all we have regarding D3 until the tbd "relaunch"-date. I haven't logged in for a while, but I like to follow the game just like I did when it was in beta, looking forward to be there again.

    I see your point that you want opinions and facts clearly seperated, but neither do I feel guilty in that regard nor do I think we can demand such a thing of everybody, it's not that simple to do, actually. It's part of my job to sometimes evaluate if company bosses did that right. And while they should be able to do that, I wouldn't expect 16yr olds to get that yet ;)
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #34
    You need incentives to participate in ladder mode. You need rewards for the people that are at the top of the ladder and you need rewards for everyone else.

    In my opinion some of the special items could be new armor skins,cosmetics like unique dyes, wings, pets auras, Special boosted items that drop BOA, special item sets that drop BOA, Special achievements, challenges.

    Honestly they could add quite a bit to ladder. As for the people that want to slog it out on one character forever and hate the idea that they may be forced to play on ladder... im sure if you put 1-2 thousands hours into one character that you would be so powerful you would scoff at the ladder items.
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