My own thoughts about "MONEY hunt" and "Loot 2.0 potential"

  • #1
    Before i start talking about MY ideas and thoughts I must apologize for my English. This is not my native language.

    My post will be about my own ideas and mrmonstrosity and his post .

    To begin, I will say that this is my personal opinion and I am always ready to discuss it.


    MAIN IDEA
    We are gamers - not brokers.
    I want to play to be better, but i dont want trade all day long.
    Make game less money oriented. Money need for fun - but they are not the main goal.
    THOUGHTS.

    Now the game is more like a simulation of Wall Street. All you need now - it's more money. Item hunt ? pfff NO. You dont want to play the game ... аnd it's sad.
    Now I will explain...
    The main problem is inflation ... What if I told you that main problem not inflation. THE MAIN PROBLE is that you no longer want to play... People who stare endlessly in AH not playing any more... MORE MONEY => BETTER GEAR => MORE MONEY => BETTER GEAR. Boring ...
    Why you need gear if you dont use it ?

    New players cant effort anything usefull till they get some "Lucky drop" (i still w8 for this)
    What can you do with it? Nothing at this point...

    There are many ways to make the game less money oriented. (but who will listen to a random guy ? rly... )

    All shout about inflation. Because it is now nearly impossible to buy GOOD items (i mean realy good) To do this, you need to sell 2-3 GOOD by yourself (i'm monk 53 paragon, still have about 50-60kk... cant effort any good item 300-500kk) Fair enough you say... NO... you need AH 24/7 to get the best equipment... it's wrong.

    You can say : WHINER. May be ... but i'm bored of gold hunt.


    PLEASE MAKE PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME !!!
    that what you need to shout ...
    How ? Easy = more rewards for thouse who actualy playing.



    1) Loot 2.0 Greay idea, but not as good as it could be ....

    2) Mystic .... Yeah reroll (I think Blizzard is trying to make another gold withdrawal... why ? JUST MAKE GAME LESS MONEY ORIENTED)

    2.1) More random, acceptable gold price (not 20kk again... that was terrible idea) = cant reroll 1 stat (2-3 stats) Do you think you're lucky - try it.

    Some forum joke post: L: Lucky guy who rolled nice mace for barb(but he is monk) B: Barb WHO WANT DAT MACE

    L: Hallo buddys : Have nice mace with average str/vit/crtdmg WTT on same grade mace agi/vit/crtdmg
    B: Hallo buddy I WANT DAT MACE !! i dont hav mace but i hav zis nice agi/vit/crtdmg axe\spear\sword trade PLZ

    Why you need this ? oh now i'll tell you why ...

    2.2) ITEM UPGRADE ( mrmonstrosity idea, slightly revised ) He offers Gold hunt again 80kk ... 160kk ... it's wrong. We are gamers - not brokers. I have a better solution RANDOM SIDE QUESTS (w00t is this guy talking about, he is CRAZY) its RPG afterall.
    Time for some joke dialog: M: Mystic P: Poor monk who dont want waste his time at AH

    M:Wanna upgrade ? Easy ... What is your item lvl and what stat do you want to upgrade ?
    P: ilvl 60 and its crit dmg 40% i want MORE DMG! Madam could you do something ?
    M: Sure i can upgrade crit dmg to 45% you've got to do something on your own... i mean some rpg things... go kill 300 skeletons or clear 10 random dungeons with full party(This is just an example, dont rage... bot guard? ok kill 150 skeletons from act 1 kill 30 succubs and 100 worms from act 2) and i need some gold 300k i think it's fine ... but next one will be more costly ( depends on how far from cap). Plus i need some crafting reagents ( again some mrmonstrosity idea, closer to cap more\rare reagents )
    P: WHAT ? You say i can stop stare AH ? And do some rgp runs ? not just same path ... its boring you know. Yap i ready for this mam.
    M: Good boy. Go get some fun.

    3) Crafting. WE NEED MORE CRAFTING (more reagents, rare, legendary) and plz dont make another gold withdrawal.

    4) Achivements with bonuses ( mrmonstrosity this is a great idea )


    ABOUT GOLD.

    Now you begin to ask me : "Why do i need gold then?"

    SIMPLE, GOLD FOR FUN. Plus you can still buy some items from AH if you need it.

    1) Dropable RARE, LEGENDARY Dyes you can sell it and buy it and do what ever you want with it.

    2) Transmogrification. want look like a boss - you need to pay for it. More ideas here: transmogrif pages, even transmogrif legendary items - very expensive.

    3) Actualy not just for fun. More punishment for risky playing. Costly repair + more item dmg on death.

    4) If you are rich you need more comfort then other ? Yep i'm right.
    4.1) Don't like Side quest => reroll it!
    4.2) You want instant revive HERE AND NOW i know it ... this pesky gold goblin running away. Sure buy some totems/runes expendable and expensive of course ( this things will not work in some zones probably )
    4.3) Some buff potions. All want run faster, easy 15k(random number) and you get +20% speed buff for 300 sec (again random number)
    Here you can add alot of potions .... but main problem will be balance right ? Easy max 2 potion buffs.
    It's not just about speed, armor, stats and other things. It's about gold spending. You want withdraw you got it.
    4.4) Rich guys love to do less and get same profit. Let them buy keys and even complete portals ... VERY EXPENSIVE. ( i'm not sure about it ... but you WANT DAT GOLD WITHDRAW )
    4.5) Bigger stash ... obv all want it.
    4.6) BIGGER INVENTORY .... ALL WANT IT HERE AND RIGHT NOW. But it will cost ALOT of gold. (how about 100kk for first 2 rows ?)
    4.7) More crafting ? Ok you can buy reagents ...
    4.8) More and more and more ways to make rich players feel comfortable, look nice, feel better then other.

    Discussion.

    In the end i'll discuss some mrmonstrosity ideas.

    YES HE HAVE GOOD IDEAS, but not all ...

    Rewarding the Hunt
    Yes, yes, yes ... and one more yes. Great idea, achievements with bonuses... why not ? i'll wont stop this is a great reward for playing.

    Magic find
    Stop right there criminal... you know what i mean(even if this from another game). This idea is terrible ... what about ppl who play 1hour max. Just NO. i dont like it ....

    Crafting and Mystic
    Already said alot about it. Many great ideas.

    Legendary Items
    Yep we need some realy Legendary items ... Legendary Runes ? Why not. Items that affect my abilities and passives ? Great. Allow barb to one hand twohanded items ? NO NO NO ... i know you want double skorn. But it will ruin all game balance ... like manticore 2 sockets + quiver (totaly imbalanced :P )




    In Conclusion

    If you made it this far in my badly designed post I salute you and thank you very much for taking the time to look over my ideas( yeah i know... but my eng terrible i must copy paste some nice sentence). I realy love ITEM HUNT... but i dont want hunt items on AH. I think lots of you too, at least i hope so.

    I think by working together, the Diablo community and Blizzard, we'll finally get to the point where we can call Diablo III the greatest ARPG every created.

    Collaboration and discussion the key to success.

    Thank you.

    P.s.
    You want discuss, i know it... dont be shy we all have something to say.
    Drop DA BELLS !
  • #2
    Since the main focus of the post is loot, all I'm going to say is loot 2.0 or console version. Self found appears to be possible, you just need to wait many months for it.

    I'm fine with gold sinks and what you suggested would be nice. Honestly unless I buy gold I will never have the money to go beyond the gem gold sink so I could careless what rich people need to do for shit and giggles.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #3
    Quote from Slayerviper

    Since the main focus of the post is loot, all I'm going to say is loot 2.0 or console version. Self found appears to be possible, you just need to wait many months for it.

    I'm fine with gold sinks and what you suggested would be nice. Honestly unless I buy gold I will never have the money to go beyond the gem gold sink so I could careless what rich people need to do for shit and giggles.


    It's not just about loot... it's also about play style and ways of achiving main goal BEST gear.
    After loot 2.0 you will buy best items only from you class) but i dont want to buy... i want earn it by playing game. Not just one route all day GOLD hunt. It's boring.
    Drop DA BELLS !
  • #4
    You obviously don't know what self found is... You find items by killing monsters. Loot 2.0 should make this a reasonable process if the console version has been any indication. If you can find your own items in a realistic pace then there will be no need to use the AH. Isn't that what your trying to say?
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #5
    Quote from Slayerviper

    You obviously don't know what self found is... You find items by killing monsters. Loot 2.0 should make this a reasonable process if the console version has been any indication. If you can find your own items in a realistic pace then there will be no need to use the AH. Isn't that what your trying to say?


    How much TOP grade items you found ? =| or at least MidTier (300-500kk) ? My score 0. So why you think it'll change in 2.0 ? Still AH best way to get Best items ... it seems nothing will change.
    Drop DA BELLS !
  • #6
    Quote from SlowBuddy

    Quote from Slayerviper

    You obviously don't know what self found is... You find items by killing monsters. Loot 2.0 should make this a reasonable process if the console version has been any indication. If you can find your own items in a realistic pace then there will be no need to use the AH. Isn't that what your trying to say?


    How much TOP grade items you found ? =| or at least MidTier (300-500kk) ? My score 0. So why you think it'll change in 2.0 ? Still AH best way to get Best items ... it seems nothing will change.


    Because they are proposing to decrease the number range and improve number of legendaries and rares found, do you actually know anything about Loot 2.0?

    Also regardless how big the numbers are, chances of you finding a top 0.1% item are tiny, all that changes it what classifies as a top 0.1% item.
  • #7
    Quote from SlowBuddy


    How much TOP grade items you found ? =| or at least MidTier (300-500kk) ? My score 0. So why you think it'll change in 2.0 ? Still AH best way to get Best items ... it seems nothing will change.


    sigh... read some of the reviews posters have been doing for the console. They are finding big upgrades/legendaries even as they level. There are people who are decked in mid to MP inferno equivalent gear already and there is no AH.

    Name how many times you found perfect stuff in Diablo 2, I bet never. I've found 4 or 5 mid tier items in D3, but that's now and not with the new patch. In any case rant all you want your obviously stuck in a certain mind set, I'm out.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #8
    Ok. I get it guys... one think that smartdrop save economy, no he would not. Other one think that free legendaries save the day ... 4 legendary items granten for boss kills so it's doest count as found loot.

    P.s. i'm not stuck ... i just dont like dead economy.
    Drop DA BELLS !
  • #9
    Quote from SlowBuddy

    P.s. i'm not stuck ... i just dont like dead economy.


    Nothing at all will ever 'save' the economy, if you want a game with a proper economy go play EVE.
  • #10
    98% of the inflation on SC is due to bots... blame the botters and Blizzard not doing anything about them. Don't blame the game design.

    You want proof, just log into HC AH and check their prices (on stuff that actually sells, not stuff that is listed for crazy amounts that no one buys).
    Winter is coming...
  • #11
    Quote from Maffia

    Quote from SlowBuddy

    P.s. i'm not stuck ... i just dont like dead economy.


    Nothing at all will ever 'save' the economy, if you want a game with a proper economy go play EVE.


    Sure nothing ... allow players to craft any item they realy need (time,patience and resources) sure it wouldn't help .... but its my opinion.


    BTW..
    There is no BOTS on console )
    Drop DA BELLS !
  • #12
    Quote from Nausicaa

    98% of the inflation on SC is due to bots... blame the botters and Blizzard not doing anything about them. Don't blame the game design.

    You want proof, just log into HC AH and check their prices (on stuff that actually sells, not stuff that is listed for crazy amounts that no one buys).


    I know about bots ... but w8 what if game will be less about money accumulation and more about party running with friends and doing random stuff ?
    Just emagine .... power of this social tool

    Random guy in chat : Hey i need to kill 800 skeletons who with me ?

    all what we do now is solo grinding for gold. same route over and over ....
    Drop DA BELLS !
  • #13
    Quote from SlowBuddy

    Quote from Nausicaa

    98% of the inflation on SC is due to bots... blame the botters and Blizzard not doing anything about them. Don't blame the game design.

    You want proof, just log into HC AH and check their prices (on stuff that actually sells, not stuff that is listed for crazy amounts that no one buys).


    I know about bots ... but w8 what if game will be less about money accumulation and more about party running with friends and doing random stuff ?
    Just emagine .... power of this social tool

    Random guy in chat : Hey i need to kill 800 skeletons who with me ?

    all what we do now is solo grinding for gold. same route over and over ....


    There's no question that social options could use improvement. Hopefully Loot Runs and Nephalem Trials will help bring people together more. But until we get that or some type of lobby system, everyone will just keep rushing through the quests or playing solo.
  • #14
    Quote from miles_dryden

    There's no question that social options could use improvement. Hopefully Loot Runs and Nephalem Trials will help bring people together more. But until we get that or some type of lobby system, everyone will just keep rushing through the quests or playing solo.


    Loot Run looks for me like no route farming... jump to random location kill all jump to another one ) just a bit automated
    We know nothing about Nephalem Trials. I hope it's something cool ...
    Drop DA BELLS !
  • #15
    Quote from Nausicaa

    98% of the inflation on SC is due to bots...

    I agree with this, to an extent.

    blame the botters and Blizzard not doing anything about them. Don't blame the game design.

    They do. But the phylosophy of not hurting one legit player even if that means 10 thousand bots will get away is what keeps them back, not really their lack of will to do something.

    You want proof, just log into HC AH and check their prices (on stuff that actually sells, not stuff that is listed for crazy amounts that no one buys).

    The HC AH prices are like that because the population that plays HC (let alone on a regular basis) is probably not even 10% of the softcore playerbase. That by itself is enough to keep the supply/demand waaay down. Add to that the item/gold sink at the end of the road, and you have an economy that's usually kept very fresh.

    Bots in HC might have a harder time, but they definitely exist. There's a couple very known players that are publicly known to use bots. I've personally met a couple bots in public games (usually being carried in Hell MP 4-5 games).
  • #16
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    blame the botters and Blizzard not doing anything about them. Don't blame the game design.

    They do. But the phylosophy of not hurting one legit player even if that means 10 thousand bots will get away is what keeps them back, not really their lack of will to do something.


    Ok, now that I read it back, it came out a bit to harsh for Blizzard.

    I didn't mean they are doing nothing about them, just that they should have anticipated botting a lot better then they did when they developed the game, to make it harder.

    1 week into the game, you had thousands of bots running 24/7... and let's not mention the US-side gold duplication "mishap". That is some shitty safeguards, now this has nothing to do with the game designers, art department, or even customer service which has to pick the up slack/ineptitude/naiveté/time constraints (or whatever caused it to go this way) that the engine/security department must have been guilty of during it's development.

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    You want proof, just log into HC AH and check their prices (on stuff that actually sells, not stuff that is listed for crazy amounts that no one buys).

    The HC AH prices are like that because the population that plays HC (let alone on a regular basis) is probably not even 10% of the softcore playerbase. That by itself is enough to keep the supply/demand waaay down. Add to that the item/gold sink at the end of the road, and you have an economy that's usually kept very fresh.

    Bots in HC might have a harder time, but they definitely exist. There's a couple very known players that are publicly known to use bots. I've personally met a couple bots in public games (usually being carried in Hell MP 4-5 games).


    Well if only 10% play HC (I dare say less then 5%, at least at launch, we are a small bunch ^^), only 10% of the loot (and gold) is gathered so the supply/demand relationship is the same. The amount of people in an economy doesn't actually affect the supply/demand relationship and supply's worth on per item basis stays the same.

    One thing that would directly affect it though is ofc that in HC you actually have stuff going poof, when a character dies... but that is sorta weighed up by people needing need low-mid level stuff.

    The absolutely MAIN reason for there being next to no (compared to SC bots per player ration) is that it's a LOT harder to make money, real life money, off bots running in HC;

    1. They can die.
    2. Less of a market (fewer players).
    3. Market less inclined to buy product (few want to risk money on something they might lose on the next DC or whatever).
    4. Much tricker to sell product (no RMAH).

    So I dare say 90% of the botters on HC are probably botting for them selves and not for getting any real money. While on the SC side I would say it's more like 99% of the botters are running to make money... cause it's a business.

    Edit: Grammar.
    P.S. I liked the idea of a RMAH in-game (even though I would not use it for a game like diablo), cause it makes it a lot safer and easier for people who want to pay more for a better gaming experience. But remember that there would be 0 inflation from botts if no one bought their gold ^^
    Winter is coming...
  • #17
    You were right in your last statement. Probably most people who bot in HC do it for themselves.

    And the lower playerbase also kinda affects the gold to supply/demand ratio. Also the value of defensive/offensive items is a bit different in HC too. Less gold, less items, less demand (because people progress at a slower pace on their own, in HC), and different overall values.

    All that means a very different AH.
  • #18
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    You were right in your last statement. Probably most people who bot in HC do it for themselves.

    And the lower playerbase also kinda affects the gold to supply/demand ratio. Also the value of defensive/offensive items is a bit different in HC too. Less gold, less items, less demand (because people progress at a slower pace on their own, in HC), and different overall values.

    All that means a very different AH.


    The highlighted part is where I think you get it wrong. A good chest armor in HC will be just as valuable as a good chest armor in SC. Now what is considered a good chest armor in HC and SC do very much differ.

    But it takes you (1 person) the same amount of time to farm for a top 90% x5 rolled chest armor in SC if it has 1 million people playing or 10 million. Sure 10 times as many will be found on the 10 million people server but then again there are 10 times as many who want to buy it.

    Ofc farming is easier in the end-game cause you can actually play a lot of glass cannon builds that you wouldn't dare use on HC. And yes VIT is valued a LOT higher on HC (try comparing the gems, it's hilarious).

    But that being said. Buying the BEST chest armor on the HC AH will cost you as much as buying the BEST chest armor on the SC AH... but the SC one would have better stats... that would be the only difference... if it wasn't for the botters...

    THEY are driving up the prices by flooding the market with gold. Requiring every other player that wants that BEST chest armor to have more and more gold as the inflation goes up (and you still have inflation on HC, it's just not as fast, inflation is normal and only avoided in ideological economies of which we sadly have none yet in the world).

    Edit: Spelling.
    Winter is coming...
  • #19
    I don't know.

    It's been a while since I followed AH prices in both modes (about one or two months, during which I only played for paragon levels), but from what I remember a BiS armor on SC would cost a lot more gold than the BiS armor in HC. Again, I don't think this is just because of bots, but rather due to the lack of an item/gold sink (and bots probably are a factor because it's easier for them to farm in SC as you said). So I agree with your inflation idea.

    The medium-range gear, though, is insanely more expensive in HC. You can get a "decent" crit Zuni's Pox for a few million in SC, but in HC, that same ring will cost a couple hundred million (from what I remember).

    And to me, the reason for that is simply the lower supply, paired with not necessarily a lower demand (which I admit to have wrongly mentioned in my post). Demand is roughly the same, even extremely experienced players lose characters.
  • #20
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    I don't know.

    It's been a while since I followed AH prices in both modes (about one or two months, during which I only played for paragon levels), but from what I remember a BiS armor on SC would cost a lot more gold than the BiS armor in HC. Again, I don't think this is just because of bots, but rather due to the lack of an item/gold sink (and bots probably are a factor because it's easier for them to farm in SC as you said). So I agree with your inflation idea.

    The medium-range gear, though, is insanely more expensive in HC. You can get a "decent" crit Zuni's Pox for a few million in SC, but in HC, that same ring will cost a couple hundred million (from what I remember).

    And to me, the reason for that is simply the lower supply, paired with not necessarily a lower demand (which I admit to have wrongly mentioned in my post). Demand is roughly the same, even extremely experienced players lose characters.


    But that's the point I was trying to make, they SHOULD cost the same... but they don't BECAUSE of inflation ^^

    And I didn't say BIS for SC and HC, I said item of same worth, for example the best available chest armor on both AHs. Both would be the best for their AH but the one on SC would have better stats cause a lot more drop/player has occurred on SC compared to HC (because of stuff like glass cannon farming and such).

    And the HUGE difference in inflation on the SC and HC AH's are mainly due to the boots pumping gold into the economy without taking anything out (they don't buy gear).

    Yeah the medium ranged stuff can be pretty crazy... but that is probably more due to lack of references to compare the items too, also a lot of these items never sell. I was tracking set boots for WD for a long time... I kept seeing the same ones day after day for 20min.... until 1 month later same boots were up for 10m and I bought them, never feeling the pressure to buy them for 20m cause they were overpriced.
    Winter is coming...
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes