Paragon 2.0 Mastery - let's discuss

  • #1
    Paragon 2.0 Mastery

    Hi everyone,

    before I start I want to apologize for my English.

    You might remember me for this, this and this thread. As I promised, I would like to present new conception of Paragon 2.0 - Mastery.

    Again special thanks to Strysio and Rivid for mental support and some suggestions :cheers: All values are only theoretical.

    Why ?
    Presenting new ideas makes me happy, so I decided to continue it.

    Why now ?
    System presented at Gamescon was a good point to start thinking, how it should look like.

    4 or 5 tabs ?
    5 is enough to have so much fun and to think about possibilities it brings. Should I choose 1 tab to an end because of bonuses or should I share points in all tabs ? Being "loyal" gives profits. Customization...

    Mastery
    As I mentioned above - being loyal gives profits. Spending 60,120 and 180 points each tab will enable some unique buffs or abilities, so player should think, what to take first.

    Let me see what you got
    Below I'll present all 5 tabs with descriptions:

    Core


    Skills:
    • Intelligence
    • Strength
    • Dexterity
    • Vitality
    Each invested point gives us +5 to stat up to maximum 250 (50 x 5).

    Mastery:
    • Growth – increases all stats from core by 15%. 50 points in Strength and 30 points in Vitality gives us total 288 Strength and 173 Vitality.
    • Vortex – each hit has a chance to gain 20 main stat, up to 5 stacks. Pretty good, 100 main stat for almost free.
    • Legendary stats – spend many points – get profit. Enough bonus for sacrificing so much points.
    Attack


    Skills:
    • Weapon damage - each point increases weapon damage by 0,12%.
    • Reduce cooldown - each point reduces cooldown by 0,16%
    • Bleed damage - each point adds 365-783 bleed damage for 5 seconds
    • Life on hit - each point adds 13 life on hit
    Mastery:
    • Precision – increases damage done by 3%
    • Frenzy – boosts skill Bleed, making it more efficient.
    • Haste – chance to deal additional attack and increase damage of next attack by 10%

    Deffense


    Skills:
    • All resistances- each point increases all resistances by 3
    • Thorns - each point adds 250 to thorns.
    • Crowd controll - each point reduces time by 0,16%
    • Max life - each point increases max life by 0,14%
    Mastery:
    • Mirror – thorns now can do some damage. More gems in items - more reflected damage
    • Lifeguard – 8% chance to increase life ? Good for tough fight.
    • Keeper – bonus depends on weapons in hands.
    Utility (twisted)


    Skills:
    • Run speed - each point increases movement speed by 0,14%
    • Resource - each point increases resources gained from collecting globes by 0,07
    • Pickup radius - each point increases pickup radius by 0,12
    • Tradesman - each point decreases crafting gold cost by 0,44%
    Mastery:
    • Swifty – increases movement speed cap to 35%. So good to feel free !
    • Champion – chance to gain additional resource or have half price skill ? Cool
    • Mastermind – great boost to gained experiance. Love to compelte quests and make the biggest masacre ? It's all for you !
    Skills



    Skills:
    • Duplicate - 1% chance. Each point increases chance to summon on struck your copy with 20% max hp for 5 seconds by 0,08%. Only one copy can be active at a time.
    • Rain of fire - 4% chance to cast on hit. Each point increases damage done with rain by 1%. Every 10 points increases chance to trigger by 0,5%
    • Retaliate - 3% to strike back enemy for 43% damage. Each point increases chance by 0,07%
    • Greedy - 1% chance. Each point increases chance that monsters will drop crafting materials or demonic essence after death by 0,03%. Drop depends on difficulty
      • Normal - 100% chance to drop materials from normal. No essence.
      • Nightmare - 80% chance to drop materials from nightmare, 20% chance from normal. No essence.
      • Hell - 60% chance to drop materials from hell, 25% chance from nightmare, 15% chance from normal. No essence.
      • Inferno - 45% chance to drop materials from inferno, 30% from hell, 15% from nightmare, 7% from normal, 3% chance for demonic essence.
    Mastery:
    • Flesh Lord – Boosts Duplicate skill. Still one copy at a time.
    • Warchief – Follower so weak ? Boost him ! Like to play in party - here you go.
    • Elementalist - elements need redesign. Why don't we change it here ?
    Summary

    Some people can complain about this system, but it won't be so easy to get all stuff. Little calculations:

    To get last Master bonus in each of 1-4 tabs player needs to spend 180 points. Not enough ?

    To enable Skills tab player needs to spend 70 points in particular tab. Still not enough ?

    To get last Master bonus in Skills tab player needs to spend 70 point in each tab + 180 points in Skills tab. 460 still not enough ?

    To get last Master bonus in all tabs player needs to spend 900 points. I think it's enough.
  • #2
    I personally feel that having the paragon system let you dump points into almost all of the available stats (the actual paragon 2.0) is really the best way about this.

    This opens up more doors for the rest of the hundreds of legendaries that'l have unique affixes. And that's what I feel this system you've proposed pretty much is when it's boiled down; Unique affixes that can be gotten by legendaries.

    But that's my personal opinion. Good job on putting this together.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #3
    Values and attributes are a bit OP, but I know they are there just as an "example".
    Other than this I like the base idea of having passives that activates if you spend enough points into a tab.

    +1 from me

    Edit: maybe it's a bit too premature to suggest something about a still-to-be-implemented-feature, but anyway +1 and you deserve a cookie.
  • #4
    Edriel, it's not a suggestion, it's only a discusion about idea of Paragon 2.0. Anyway thanks :Thumbs Up:
  • #5
    Looks really good. I hope the system they implement looks as good and has some depth like that ;)
  • #6
    Quote from Yellonek

    Edriel, it's not a suggestion, it's only a discusion about idea of Paragon 2.0. Anyway thanks :Thumbs Up:


    Sorry my fault!
    It's a speculation then eheh :D

    Anyway as Zero(pS) said, I hope that the system they're going to implement will have some depth as you wrote in the OP.
  • #7
    Hmpf good system but I dont know if I like this passivity when it comes to these masteries. They are quite the huge thing and I think players could enjoy clicking those and chosing which one they want instead of getting them passively. Maybe something like a "mastery-tree" on the bottom of that paragon screen :P. But that's just my personal flavour ^^ good job!
  • #8
    I like this! I really hope we end up with something similar to this as it would add plenty of depth and variety in character building.

    Thumbs up! :)
  • #9
    Great job at putting together this post, the mock-ups are fantastic!

    I like a lot of the ideas here but I personally wouldn't want pre-requisite milestone to be involved. This just creates a huge amount of analysis paralysis that results in you dumping points into a category based on unlocking the mastery, and not on the actual skills. For example, I think the Elementalist Mastery is awesome but if I want it I have a bunch of mandatory pre-requisite points to dump, even if they involve categories/skills I have zero interest in and wouldn't want otherwise. This stifles diversity to an extent, as there is no freedom to place points wherever you want without the consequences of missing out on the amazing mastery effects. Hence the "analysis paralysis" in which you are inadvertently punished for placing, or not placing rather, all your points in the skills you want.

    On that note, the point requirements for Masteries are a bit too high, especially in the aforementioned case of skills. For someone to unlock Elementalist for example, they would need to allocate a minimum total of 460 points in pre-requisites and that's strictly speaking. I'm basing that off the current system of 1 x point per paragon level though, and obviously that and/or the experience curve may change.

    Overall I think it's a great concept it's just somewhat stifling to the character with it's mandatory pre-requisites and unlock milstones, most of which would be way out of reach for the majority of the playerbase.

    Big fan of all your threads though OP. Keep up the great work! :)
  • #10
    I think that if this system will allow people to create unconventional yet effecient builds then it's a success. Other than that, i really hope that we won't end up with cookie cutter stats / feats that everyone will pick over everything else.
    .
  • #11
    I personally think they should reset the paragon before trowing out the x-pac, I don't think it will be good for the x-pac that people farm 10 character at lvl100 paragon and right when the x-pac come out put a thousand point into stat to boost them to pass the x-pac...

    They really should reset the paragon and say it now cause if they reset it and say it to people only 2month before the x-pac some will complain that they farm paragon for 10month for nothing ...

    and having people with 1000 pts already wouldn't be a fair competition and will put AH again at high use cause you will see higher gear there.
  • #12
    Really liked the idea, i even posted on D3's official forum cuz i didnt see anyone posting there (sorry if u did thought).
    Here is what i wrotte on ur idea, giving my spin on it:

    "I really liked the idea that after you invested so much on either one stat/atribute or a tab you would be rewarded, i think it would add more depth to the system and encourage the player to invest more points on it.
    I'm sorry if i offend someone by mentioning this, but i think Torchlight 2 had a great skills system that everytime you leveled up a skill to lv5,10,15 you would get a great/special boost on the skill.
    I'm not saying Blizzard has to copy the idea, but i think if they want, Paragon 2.0 can have alot more depth than putting all points in STR/CC/CD to deal more X ammount of DPS.

    The only thing i would maybe add/chage is a tab with Class Skills, so maybe each class would have some skills options to power them up (some how level them up like in D2) increasing either they damage and/or giving new effects.

    My examples would be:
    * Magic Missile - 0/10: Each Level increase the skill damage by 1%, at least 5 and 10 you get a new missile added.
    So after investing 5 points, not just you would deal 5% more damage with Magic Missile, but you would add a new fire missile, and at 10, another one, similar to what we would have with the early Rune stones, where you could shot 6 Fire Missiles.

    * Zumbie Dogs - 0/10: Each level increase the HP and Damageof your Zumbie Dogs by 1%, at level 10 you can summon an additional Zumbie Dog."
  • #13
    Quote from Sephirote666

    I personally think they should reset the paragon before trowing out the x-pac, I don't think it will be good for the x-pac that people farm 10 character at lvl100 paragon and right when the x-pac come out put a thousand point into stat to boost them to pass the x-pac...

    They really should reset the paragon and say it now cause if they reset it and say it to people only 2month before the x-pac some will complain that they farm paragon for 10month for nothing ...

    and having people with 1000 pts already wouldn't be a fair competition and will put AH again at high use cause you will see higher gear there.


    imo they deserves it....
  • #14
    10xLevel100 will not equal in 1000 points... It could end with 170 or 100 or even 30. We don't know how they will change the EXP-Chart. Paragon 2.0 will be based on Level 70 and at this Level you will get way more EXP. Considering this, the EXP for reaching Level 1 could jump to over 50 million EXP (from 7 million right now).
    People can farm right now as much as they want, but in the expansion you will make way more exp/h, because of the higher Levelcap.
    You want to know how it will change? Go farm Paragon in Hell. ;)

    @Paragon Mastery:
    on first glance it looks really cool, but i don't like it. The good thing about Paragon 2.0 is, that you can spread your points wide over all tabs. You need crit? Push crit. You need Vitality? Push that.
    With your system it would be more like this: You want to push cooldownreduction? Well fuck you, you've put 70 points in Core, so now put the rest in it to get your "Milestones".
  • #15
    I'd prefer class specific paragon points that would allow you to "spec" into a certain build. So like fire/lightning/cold/arcane mastery for wizard as an example. It would make it somewhat akin to the old skill points that WERE your build.
  • #16
    Quote from Sephirote666

    I personally think they should reset the paragon before trowing out the x-pac, I don't think it will be good for the x-pac that people farm 10 character at lvl100 paragon and right when the x-pac come out put a thousand point into stat to boost them to pass the x-pac...

    They really should reset the paragon and say it now cause if they reset it and say it to people only 2month before the x-pac some will complain that they farm paragon for 10month for nothing ...

    and having people with 1000 pts already wouldn't be a fair competition and will put AH again at high use cause you will see higher gear there.


    What AH?
  • #17
    Really like posts like this!

    One affix that i think would be bad is 'tradesman' as people would just need to setup one of their other characters to have 50/50 tradesman points and get that character to do all the crafting instead of your main..

    With the mastery idea, I almost think it could be cool if all of those ideas were in its own tab.. Tab 6..
    Then every 100 Paragon Levels you get to choose a mastery.
    You have made 18 so far, lets say there are 100 options so that at paragon level 1000, you get 10 masteries max to choose.

    Just think I like the idea that masteries aren't dependent on other things otherwise it is just a skill tree in disguise and the amount of customisation becomes more of an illusion.

    Thanks for making the effort with a well put together thread (again).
  • #18
    Quote from FEIF81

    Quote from Sephirote666

    I personally think they should reset the paragon before trowing out the x-pac, I don't think it will be good for the x-pac that people farm 10 character at lvl100 paragon and right when the x-pac come out put a thousand point into stat to boost them to pass the x-pac...

    They really should reset the paragon and say it now cause if they reset it and say it to people only 2month before the x-pac some will complain that they farm paragon for 10month for nothing ...

    and having people with 1000 pts already wouldn't be a fair competition and will put AH again at high use cause you will see higher gear there.


    imo they deserves it....


    I'm farming 10x p100 toons and I agree anyone who puts the time and work into it as I am deserves the paragon points. Just cuz you are lazy doesn't make your point of view valid, you have the same option as anyone else lvl 10x p100 or don't the choice is yours.
  • #19
    Quote from Shapookya

    10xLevel100 will not equal in 1000 points... It could end with 170 or 100 or even 30. We don't know how they will change the EXP-Chart. Paragon 2.0 will be based on Level 70 and at this Level you will get way more EXP. Considering this, the EXP for reaching Level 1 could jump to over 50 million EXP (from 7 million right now).
    People can farm right now as much as they want, but in the expansion you will make way more exp/h, because of the higher Levelcap.
    You want to know how it will change? Go farm Paragon in Hell. ;)

    @Paragon Mastery:
    on first glance it looks really cool, but i don't like it. The good thing about Paragon 2.0 is, that you can spread your points wide over all tabs. You need crit? Push crit. You need Vitality? Push that.
    With your system it would be more like this: You want to push cooldownreduction? Well fuck you, you've put 70 points in Core, so now put the rest in it to get your "Milestones".


    I agree the OP's system is a nice try but unfortunatly a fail, I would not want this system at all. The proposed system by blizzard is sounding good the only thing I'm not happy about is that we have to skip tabs for every level instead of having the choice to put points where we want them regardless of the paragon lvl's we are at, but it's not a game breaker I can live with it just not exactly happy about this plan.
  • #20
    Quote from heyguyslol

    I agree the OP's system is a nice try but unfortunatly a fail, I would not want this system at all. The proposed system by blizzard is sounding good the only thing I'm not happy about is that we have to skip tabs for every level instead of having the choice to put points where we want them regardless of the paragon lvl's we are at, but it's not a game breaker I can live with it just not exactly happy about this plan.


    It is far from a fail.. I think Yellonek is putting a well thought out iteration on Blizzards Paragon 2.0 model and has presented it to us to iterate on further (saying what we like/dislike)...

    So far Blizzards model is a little shallow in terms of customisation... if you think that is better than a model with a bit more depth thrown in (like Yelloank is trying to add) than that's a fair opinion to make... but that doesn't mean his ideas are a fail.
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes