New Paragon discussion.

  • #82
    Quote from Sinphou

    Salvage reagants: whites = ghost essence, shadow rares (Act 5 rares) = shadow stone


    No way I'll ever bother picking up white items, I'll buy some for 60 gold each from the vendors if I need them (and I hope they'll never force me to pick them up)
  • #83
    I'm wondering, do characters you may have deleted, do you still get credit for what xp they got? I know this is still in the stats somewhere, they have all the total data of everything you have done.
  • #84
    Quote from DoomDash

    I must admit I also feel a little screwed. 1200 hours on my barb and no other characters. I'm pretty disappointed. I hope they change it and just start us all at 100 ( assuming we leveled to 100 ).
    well,gonna have to wait but i also have 1 character,+ 1200 hours on my WD. (P100)
    i dont have the time to spend on more characters,so what blizz is saying now is that people with multiple char gain a advantage over the people with just 1?
    why? ...simpel question ...folks,it's a "expansion"!!!
    i fully agree with the above post to just let all start at the Pvlv you are at the moment of release,if that is P100,fine...let's make it account wide,fully agree on that,honest!
    But dont give people that are home all day,dont wanna work etc a advantage over the working class cause "they can play all day"???
  • #85
    New screen shot surfaced



    By those values, the max you can gain in each category would be:

    Attack Speed: 10%
    Crit %: 10%
    Crit Damage: 50%
    Cool down Reduction: 10%

    Now if we can only get a screen shot for Defense and Utility.

    Of course all these values are subject to change.
  • #86
    if you compare that to the main stats where you can get 250 points of your main stat this seems kinda low. crit is about right but IAS should be 15-20%, CDR at least 20% and ChD 100%

    as it looks right now, all classes get the barbarian passive. i know we get those stats for "free" but remember that the exp needed will be absurd
  • #87
    Quote from Hellfrog

    if you compare that to the main stats where you can get 250 points of your main stat this seems kinda low. crit is about right but IAS should be 15-20%, CDR at least 20% and ChD 100%

    as it looks right now, all classes get the barbarian passive. i know we get those stats for "free" but remember that the exp needed will be absurd


    Those values are fine and balanced.

    If you look at the average 300k dps character, each main stat point usually gives you 80-110 dps, each attack speed about 1500-2000 dps, each CC about 4-5000, and each CD about 4-500 dps. Of course these values vary but they're roughly in those ranges for most builds. By those figures, each category is balanced when maxed.
  • #88
    Quote from RasAlgethi24

    Quote from Hellfrog

    if you compare that to the main stats where you can get 250 points of your main stat this seems kinda low. crit is about right but IAS should be 15-20%, CDR at least 20% and ChD 100%

    as it looks right now, all classes get the barbarian passive. i know we get those stats for "free" but remember that the exp needed will be absurd


    Those values are fine and balanced.

    If you look at the average 300k dps character, each main stat point usually gives you 80-110 dps, each attack speed about 1500-2000 dps, each CC about 4-5000, and each CD about 4-500 dps. Of course these values vary but they're roughly in those ranges for most builds. By those figures, each category is balanced when maxed.

    10CC is way more valuable than 50CD on almost every (achieveable) gear level. as your numbers show you need 10% CD to gain the same dmg as with 1% CC.
    also im not talking about balance here. with infinite para levels you will be OP in the long run no matter what. if i put 50 para points into a stat i wanna see a difference and neither CD, IAS nor CDR does that with those values.

    the CDR passive of the monk was hardly used while it was at 10%; only after it was buffed to 20% ppl started using it more often

    therefore i hope that they still re-evaluate those numbers
  • #89
    Quote from Hellfrog

    the CDR passive of the monk was hardly used while it was at 10%; only after it was buffed to 20% ppl started using it more often

    therefore i hope that they still re-evaluate those numbers


    I don't think that's a fair point at all.

    There's an obvious difference between a passive, or rune, and a paragon purchase. Paragon stuff is BONUS for just playing the game. It doesn't need to be amazing. It doesn't need to be competitive. In fact, it can't be TOO GOOD otherwise that just makes the average toon too good since everyone will, eventually, have access to most, if not all, of the meaningful purchases.

    Runes and passives MUST be competitive against the other runes and passives. The paragon purchases don't have to compete against ANYTHING.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #90
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Hellfrog

    the CDR passive of the monk was hardly used while it was at 10%; only after it was buffed to 20% ppl started using it more often

    therefore i hope that they still re-evaluate those numbers


    I don't think that's a fair point at all.

    There's an obvious difference between a passive, or rune, and a paragon purchase. Paragon stuff is BONUS for just playing the game. It doesn't need to be amazing. It doesn't need to be competitive. In fact, it can't be TOO GOOD otherwise that just makes the average toon too good since everyone will, eventually, have access to most, if not all, of the meaningful purchases.

    Runes and passives MUST be competitive against the other runes and passives. The paragon purchases don't have to compete against ANYTHING.


    if its just a bonus then why is everyone crying that the want the paragon system reworked? in fact, it has to be TOO GOOD so you still feel the joy of reaching a certain level and having some stuff more than before.
    the system works fine as it is right now with the MF/GF; it makes a nice farming stat useless on your gear and give it to you passively.

    sure we dont need PUR, movement speed etc but its damn nice to have. but they wouldnt think about only putting like 5% movement speed there because they know that ppl would not put points in it because its not worth the points.

    and ofc the passive is a fair point. since when are monk passives competitive with the DH/Barb dmg increase passives? for classes you need the whole package to be able to compete with other classes.
    but with the para points everyone gets the same package! and that package as a whole is IN MY OPINION too weak for the time spent to gain those para levels

    immagine you max your main stat/vit and then maybe 1 utility stat. that means youre at para 150 and now you can get 50CD for 50 levels or 10% CC. 50CD of the already 400-500 you already have means a 8-10% increase in CD. 10CC at 50% is a 20% increase, even at 80% crit on your char the additional 10CC are 12.5%

    on last thought on the "cant be too good": imagine your acc at being para level 1000. that means your char has 3180 of the main stat and 2120vit NAKED! even at lvl70 that is some massive bonus and were just getting stronger. with enough playtime everyone will achieve this
    even if we let IAS, CDR and CC at 10%, the 50% is just not worth the points till the end. also it would be more aesthetic to have a 10/10/100/10 instead of a 10/10/50/10 ^^
  • #91
    Awesome picture.I`ll be waiting for Utility/Defense picture. :)
  • #92
    Phew... these generalizations again...

    Quote from Hellfrog

    sure we dont need PUR, movement speed etc but its damn nice to have. but they wouldnt think about only putting like 5% movement speed there because they know that ppl would not put points in it because its not worth the points.


    I would. Because MS is pretty much mandatory, but it's such an annoying hassle to get it on gear.

    Quote from Hellfrog

    imagine your acc at being para level 1000. that means your char has 3180 of the main stat and 2120vit NAKED! even at lvl70 that is some massive bonus and were just getting stronger. with enough playtime everyone will achieve this


    I'm still miles away from p100. Despite playing D2 for 10 years, I never reached level 99. And you're telling me everyone (and everyone includes me) will reach paragon level 1000? I just hate the fucking boring grind. I like to do fun stuff, not run around like a machine. Because you know, it's a game..

    Quote from Hellfrog

    even if we let IAS, CDR and CC at 10%, the 50% is just not worth the points till the end.


    Interesting that you say that. Maybe you should watch the market for high-end items: just by raising crit on a Mempo from 4% to 6%, you can get 10 times more money. The difference between a vendor weapon and a 50 billion gold item can sometimes be just one stat. And you're telling that people wouldn't invest 50 paragon points for 10% crit? I think you should really re-think your claims.

    Besides, Blizzard are the only ones who really know what the players want. Because they have all the data. They look at how the crowd behaves, what people want on their gear, and what makes people go insane about an item. They know these values. It's kinda ignorant to think they just put some arbitrary numbers there...
  • #93
    Quote from Bagstone

    And you're telling that people wouldn't invest 50 paragon points for 10% crit? I think you should really re-think your claims.


    I think he's saying "this one way to spend a paragon point is better than this other way." I still contend, because there are finite things to spend points on, that really doesn't matter.

    Just look at the core stats page. Aside from your specific primary stat and vitality, the other two will almost ASSUREDLY go un-spent for 99% of toons until they've maxed out the other stuff. I don't see that as a problem. I see that as "after I've got the other stuff I can come back here and get more str & dex (or dex & int, or int & str) and see some marginal survivability increases."

    It's about perspective, and I just don't see why every point has to be perfectly balanced. Not only would that suck up far too much of Blizzard's time, but it really doesn't matter in a system with finite expenditures. At the end of the day I'm still going to have 10% more IAS, 10% more Critical Chance, 50% more Critical Damage, 250 more to every stat, 10% faster cooldowns.... it's just a matter of what order I opt for specific bonuses. To me, that's simply not worth pissing and moaning over, nor is it a shortcoming of the system.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #94
    edit because
  • #95
    Why did nobody smuggle in a Spycam.. on a Necklace or something :)

    Need more Infos !!!
  • #96
    Quote from Hellfrog

    also, really good point that you bringt up an item in comparison to some stats that are handed to us for free by just playing the game. kudos to that... /facepalm


    No offense, but YOU are the one that's complaining that the "stats that are handed to us for free by just playing the game" aren't balanced enough.

    You just rebutted your entire point in that one sentence.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #97
    edit because
  • #98
    It looks like you need paragon 400 just to max out of the first two pages (core and attack). Once we get the other two pages we will know for sure hopefully the level to max everything. My hope is it won't be too easy and only really dedicated players will be able to do it.

    Although, I would have kept playing my wizard after paragon 100, even if you could gain more levels but it did absolutely nothing. Just knowing that it is going towards something, even completely for bragging rights, would have been enough inspiration to not switch to another character. Instead, I switched to Demon Hunter because it felt bad having all experience go to complete waste.


    In other news, I wish they just got rid of resist all...

    Armor should have been damage reduction (rescale it properly).
    And specific resists should have been to reduce specific type of elemental attacks: fire, cold, lightning, poison - remove physical.
  • #99
    I'd really like to see more restrictions on that system.

    For example reduce the max points you can invest to 30 but for every 3 points you put into 1 ability the max points you can put into the other 3 increases by 1.

    If you put 3 points into Str the max amount you can put into Dex/Int/Vit increases to 31 and so on.

    So after you invested 30 points into Strength, you can put 40 points into Dex/Int/Vit. If you then increase Vit by 40 you can now max strength to 43 and dex/Int to 53. If you then increase Dex by 30 you can put another 10 points into Strength and so on. It forces a little bit more variety than simply max Str, then max crit, then max critdmg...
  • #100
    Quote from Melt

    I'd really like to see more restrictions on that system.

    For example reduce the max points you can invest to 30 but for every 3 points you put into 1 ability the max points you can put into the other 3 increases by 1.

    If you put 3 points into Str the max amount you can put into Dex/Int/Vit increases to 31 and so on.

    So after you invested 30 points into Strength, you can put 40 points into Dex/Int/Vit. If you then increase Vit by 40 you can now max strength to 43 and dex/Int to 53. If you then increase Dex by 30 you can put another 10 points into Strength and so on. It forces a little bit more variety than simply max Str, then max crit, then max critdmg...


    I see your concern but I see it this way; depending on what gear I get to drop and my build, it's totally reasonable that the first stat I max is movement speed. I'm also curious about the CD reduction, as some of the gear we've seen so far also has CDR on it, so I might go into that as well. That's the point of the whole system; customize your character how you want. Will most people take CC and IAS first? Probably, but that shouldn't dictate how YOU customize your character.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #101
    Quote from Melt

    I'd really like to see more restrictions on that system.

    For example reduce the max points you can invest to 30 but for every 3 points you put into 1 ability the max points you can put into the other 3 increases by 1.

    If you put 3 points into Str the max amount you can put into Dex/Int/Vit increases to 31 and so on.

    So after you invested 30 points into Strength, you can put 40 points into Dex/Int/Vit. If you then increase Vit by 40 you can now max strength to 43 and dex/Int to 53. If you then increase Dex by 30 you can put another 10 points into Strength and so on. It forces a little bit more variety than simply max Str, then max crit, then max critdmg...


    Kind of agree on somthing like this, but dont want to agree :facepalmsmile:.

    I know nothing is set in stone but your right majority is going to dump points into main stat and max that first.

    But hey if you have put the time into the game with multiple chars/alts then you deserve the choice IMO.

    I also think Movement speed isnt such a bad stat to allocate points in if you use average innas on a WW barb and can replace it with Depth Diggers for example
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