Using the mystic/ blacksmith to their full potential

  • #21
    I would like to hear what you think about gold sinks. Do you Really believe they solve the gold inflation and overuse of the AH issue? Or do they simply patch a system broken at its core?

    Personally i think that with the introduction of new gold sinks without changes to the economy, we would be running in a circle, effectively changing nothing.
  • #22
    Vladh, I like your view on things.
  • #23
    Quote from Vladh

    Those gold sinks Blizzard keeps talking about are not the solution, they are "fun" for the rich people, but they act against the very nature of the game. We need to cut the problem from its contagious roots, which is the AH.


    Gold is just the currency being used for AH interactions. In D2 the currency was SoJs (and runes/gems) and they suffered from the same inflation problem as gold - even though there was no AH.

    The AH is not the root of the problem, it's an accelerator/magnifying glass. I don't like the AH either, but we shouldn't lose focus on what the real roots of the problem are. In a trade system that has sources (drops) you also need sinks (items/gold/and everything that enters the system needs to leave the system at some point). Otherwise every system/economy will always end up with inflation. Even if you had no currency at all and items would just be traded for items, at some point one 6% crit Mempo would be worth 10 Mempos with 4% crit or so. You need to remove stuff from the system to keep things in relation. Removing the AH will slow things down considerably, but not solve anything.
  • #24
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Vladh

    Those gold sinks Blizzard keeps talking about are not the solution, they are "fun" for the rich people, but they act against the very nature of the game. We need to cut the problem from its contagious roots, which is the AH.


    Gold is just the currency being used for AH interactions. In D2 the currency was SoJs (and runes/gems) and they suffered from the same inflation problem as gold - even though there was no AH.

    The AH is not the root of the problem, it's an accelerator/magnifying glass. I don't like the AH either, but we shouldn't lose focus on what the real roots of the problem are. In a trade system that has sources (drops) you also need sinks (items/gold/and everything that enters the system needs to leave the system at some point). Otherwise every system/economy will always end up with inflation. Even if you had no currency at all and items would just be traded for items, at some point one 6% crit Mempo would be worth 10 Mempos with 4% crit or so. You need to remove stuff from the system to keep things in relation. Removing the AH will slow things down considerably, but not solve anything.


    I think removing the ah is out of the question. I might be mistaken on this, but blizzard has said that they won't remove it ( don't quote me on that, i've read some posts a while back). However, the more i think about introducing new and exciting materials to help us be drawn away from the AH i always get close to a system similar to that of PoE's. I don't think its system is perfect, but it is fluid enough to prevent inflations (at least not the kind that we see in D3).
  • #25
    No one will like my opinion about gold. I would just completely remove gold from the game (and repair costs since that is the only thing that really requires gold). This way we don't have to worry about creating a "sink" for something that has no use in the first place, and we get rid of gold bots/sellers.
  • #26
    Quote from Vulmio

    No one will like my opinion about gold. I would just completely remove gold from the game (and repair costs since that is the only thing that really requires gold). This way we don't have to worry about creating a "sink" for something that has no use in the first place, and we get rid of gold bots/sellers.


    I like your opinion, but please think again. It would just change the problem, not get rid of it. Gems, crafting materials, items - something else will become the new currency. Just like in D2. That's why they decided to give gold a purpose again in D3. They just did the calculation wrong: there was no gem sink, therefore the gem crafting costs aren't high enough; the repair costs are way too low (especially after they lowered them); the crafting recipes (except for 1.07) don't cost enough. There's little incentive to spend your gold on anything in-game.

    And please, removing gold should help us get rid of bots? Are you kidding? #1 income of bot owners are items (especially stuff like unidentified legendaries). They would just sell/trade it for whatever is the new currency, even if there's no gold and no AH. It worked perfectly in D2.
  • #27
    Quote from Vulmio

    No one will like my opinion about gold. I would just completely remove gold from the game (and repair costs since that is the only thing that really requires gold). This way we don't have to worry about creating a "sink" for something that has no use in the first place, and we get rid of gold bots/sellers.


    People will just sell their gear on 3rd party sites... think it happened already ;)
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #28
    Quote from Vulmio

    No one will like my opinion about gold. I would just completely remove gold from the game (and repair costs since that is the only thing that really requires gold). This way we don't have to worry about creating a "sink" for something that has no use in the first place, and we get rid of gold bots/sellers.


    Well, if it's not gold, then it will be gems. It will be something that drops rather frequently.
  • #29
    I have been thinking about this more and more and with your help i reached an idea that i think is heading in the right direction.

    1) Gold capped at let's say 1 million. ( this can be adjusted)
    2) Demonic Essences can now be sold for 50k each (this can be adjusted)
    3) Introduce new materials that you can use to improve items(mystic), once an item is enchanted, it becomes BoA. These materials can be BoA, if they're not, it would probably be mean that they would become a currency.
    4)The cost of BoA items should change a bit. With this system i think it would be best for the price to be demonic essences + new materials.
    5)Gold should be used to repair therefore i think the price on repair should be greatly increased for a more fluid gold flow. Gold could be used for other systems like transmog and the like, systems that don't necessarily make you stronger.
    6)People might still be drawn to 3rd party sites with this system though.I think we can solve that issue by making salvaging much more desirable. If we made salvaging really useful, maybe even scaling the amount of drops and even what materials drop with how close to BiS the item is( maybe based on affixes as well, for example: if the item has CD+CC+LoH+socket +high stats and maybe something else it would have an increased chance to drop a very rare material), people would think twice before trying to sell them.

    This is not final though. With your help, maybe we can come up with a much better idea.
  • #30
    Quote from DoomSlayers

    Quote from Vulmio

    No one will like my opinion about gold. I would just completely remove gold from the game (and repair costs since that is the only thing that really requires gold). This way we don't have to worry about creating a "sink" for something that has no use in the first place, and we get rid of gold bots/sellers.


    Well, if it's not gold, then it will be gems. It will be something that drops rather frequently.


    I don't mind having gems as a currency. At least gems have a purpose in the game. But it doesn't really matter since gold will stay as it is right now, Blizzard will never remove gold. It's quite pointless to discuss it, it was just my opinion :)
  • #31
    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from DoomSlayers

    Quote from Vulmio

    No one will like my opinion about gold. I would just completely remove gold from the game (and repair costs since that is the only thing that really requires gold). This way we don't have to worry about creating a "sink" for something that has no use in the first place, and we get rid of gold bots/sellers.


    Well, if it's not gold, then it will be gems. It will be something that drops rather frequently.


    I don't mind having gems as a currency. At least gems have a purpose in the game. But it doesn't really matter since gold will stay as it is right now, Blizzard will never remove gold. It's quite pointless to discuss it, it was just my opinion :)


    If gold is never changed, whatever options blizzard will add, like more boa or the mystic, will revolve around using the AH which is not healthy for the game. Honestly, my opinion is that the new itemization must be complemented by a change to economy. Without something like that, the game wouldn't change too much. AH would still be the best way to get gear. Granted, it would be much more interesting for those who enjoy self-found, but the problem is, as a self-found you don't have billions of gold in your bank and other systems that might be implemented like the mystic(with ridiculous gold prices like the current marquise gems) would "force" you to play the AH game.
  • #32
    sorry for a bit off topic cos this question dont deserve a new thread. Is there a short cut to craft gems rather than staring at the loading bar?
  • #33
    Quote from justiceknight

    sorry for a bit off topic cos this question dont deserve a new thread. Is there a short cut to craft gems rather than staring at the loading bar?


    Not really. I just accumulate a lot of gems and craft them all at once. Then, I alt-tab and so something else or go eat.

    My best advice is to do something else in the meantime. That way, it is not wasted.
  • #34
    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from DoomSlayers

    Quote from Vulmio

    No one will like my opinion about gold. I would just completely remove gold from the game (and repair costs since that is the only thing that really requires gold). This way we don't have to worry about creating a "sink" for something that has no use in the first place, and we get rid of gold bots/sellers.


    Well, if it's not gold, then it will be gems. It will be something that drops rather frequently.


    I don't mind having gems as a currency. At least gems have a purpose in the game. But it doesn't really matter since gold will stay as it is right now, Blizzard will never remove gold. It's quite pointless to discuss it, it was just my opinion :)


    Why do people keep saying that gold has no purpouse in the game? It is the trading currency, and it is a much better currency than any item trade based system in D2 ever was. Back in the days you had to calculate the worth of all the different gems and runes and items into some meta-currency and then calculate it back after the trade... With gold you just trad in gold and that is it.

    Saying that gold is useless in d3 is about as clever as saying money is useless in the real world and you would much rather trade in chickens and oil barrells...
  • #35
    My $0.02.

    1) In D2 there was no AH, yet there was an "economy". The AH makes a big difference in game play (self-found requires much more determination), and it has an impact on the economy (things get distributed more quickly, even slightly useful items are traded and not just "very good items" as in D2, since there is less overhead on trading). However, it only speeds up everything you would see in a system without AH, too. (To be fair, it speeds it up significantly.) Anyways: Blizzard is aware of the impact of the AH, but we can't get rid of it, and we also can't get rid of "trading" or re-invent trading without the AH by making "non-auctionable items". The main purpose of the AH was to give every player access to trading, and not just those who accessed D2JSP and other non-ingame communities. Blizzard acknowledged that it was a mistake and they didn't do the right math in advance, but there's also no way back. So please stop suggesting to remove the AH or taking it out of the (trading) equation - it's just not gonna happen.

    2) Establishing gold as trade currency was one of the main goals by Blizzard. The inflation problem happened to D2 gems/SoJs, it happened to D1 gold, it happens in almost every economy in which sources and sinks aren't balanced. Nevertheless, stop pretending that removing gold will change anything. It will just make trading cumbersome by establishing another currency - unidentified legendaries or whatever. If there's no balance then inflation is gonna happen, period. So please stop talking about removing gold as currency.

    If you say things like "remove gold and remove the AH", we might as well discuss my X-Mas wishlist or tomorrow's soccer results, because all of this has nothing to do with the future design of D3. Thanks :-)
  • #36
    Quote from Bagstone

    My $0.02.

    1) In D2 there was no AH, yet there was an "economy". The AH makes a big difference in game play (self-found requires much more determination), and it has an impact on the economy (things get distributed more quickly, even slightly useful items are traded and not just "very good items" as in D2, since there is less overhead on trading). However, it only speeds up everything you would see in a system without AH, too. (To be fair, it speeds it up significantly.) Anyways: Blizzard is aware of the impact of the AH, but we can't get rid of it, and we also can't get rid of "trading" or re-invent trading without the AH by making "non-auctionable items". The main purpose of the AH was to give every player access to trading, and not just those who accessed D2JSP and other non-ingame communities. Blizzard acknowledged that it was a mistake and they didn't do the right math in advance, but there's also no way back. So please stop suggesting to remove the AH or taking it out of the (trading) equation - it's just not gonna happen.

    2) Establishing gold as trade currency was one of the main goals by Blizzard. The inflation problem happened to D2 gems/SoJs, it happened to D1 gold, it happens in almost every economy in which sources and sinks aren't balanced. Nevertheless, stop pretending that removing gold will change anything. It will just make trading cumbersome by establishing another currency - unidentified legendaries or whatever. If there's no balance then inflation is gonna happen, period. So please stop talking about removing gold as currency.

    If you say things like "remove gold and remove the AH", we might as well discuss my X-Mas wishlist or tomorrow's soccer results, because all of this has nothing to do with the future design of D3. Thanks :-)


    That's why I said it was just my opinion and Blizzard will never do it anyway. It's not because someone says something on a forum that there is suddenly a danger that it will happen and you have to hammer him down just to be sure it doesn't happen. In this case, don't worry, it will never happen, you (and the previous posters) don't have to shoot me :)
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