Loot 2.0, discovering its true potential.

  • #41
    Quote from Melt

    Is this really all it takes to convince the masses?
    -Rant-
    NONE of these changes will make the game a longterm success or add much(any) depth to it.


    You strike me as a person of superior intellect, stranded on the shores of the internet with us ignorant sheep, who need to be told what they should enjoy or approve of. I can't wait for you to dip into that endless pool of knowledge and wisdom that is your mind and blow me away with some amazing ideas of your own.
    "Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
  • #42
    Awesome Post, well done!

    Didn't see anything that I'd disagree with, and every idea was an improvement and/or a step in the right direction. Now, we can only hope that you get kidnapped by Blizzard one night, and forced to work on Diablo for the rest of your life. I know, not seeing any of your family or friends ever again might seem harsh, but it's a sacrifice that the community is willing to see.

    Ps: Love the idea of the achievs for finding legends, which in turn grant bonuses, but maybe it would work better if the achievement was for it to drop AND ID it, this avoids people simply buying/selling unids.
  • #43
    Huh, thunderfury required luck? Don't remember needing luck.

    ^ Wotb + br up: live conditions.
  • #44
    This is simply incredible. Blizzard needs to see this. I wish a blue would comment on this... this is just... :Thumbs Up:

    +1 OP. In fact, +10000000000.
  • #45
    Some really nice reading indeed, you sir have som great ideas, have an upvote!
  • #46
    Quote from EleSaturate

    Quote from Melt

    Is this really all it takes to convince the masses?
    -Rant-
    NONE of these changes will make the game a longterm success or add much(any) depth to it.


    You strike me as a person of superior intellect, stranded on the shores of the internet with us ignorant sheep, who need to be told what they should enjoy or approve of. I can't wait for you to dip into that endless pool of knowledge and wisdom that is your mind and blow me away with some amazing ideas of your own.


    Nah you are right, Let's all hug each other and embrace any idea that simply says "better loot for everybody" or "more abilities = more diversity"...

    Instead of trying to figure out what's wrong with a system let's just keep nagging how much better that one single contribution is than everything Blizzard came up with. That'll lead to the most desirable outcome, will it not?

    If people seriously can't find anything to criticize in that post then it's probably for the best that Blizzard ignores us.



    P.S. Here are (just a couple) of my ideas. But be careful they might not keep your attention as they lack pictures and the "let's give everybody more of everything" attitude.

    https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9423292435#1
  • #47
    I typically hate idea threads.

    This one stands out.

    I have to ask the OP; How long did this take for you to compile? Days? Weeks?

    My next question;

    How long did Blizz devs have to compile their itemization ideas? Many many years.

    +1 and thanks.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #48
    Quote from AurelianZ

    Having more (and harsh) gold sinks is stupid.

    A gold sink does nothing more than to encourage botting (gold becomes valuable -> there's profit to be made -> more bots) and to hurt legit players.

    How many hours do you need to play to pick up 180 million gold, Mr. True Loot Potential?


    Everything encourages bots. They always have an advantage, no matter what the parameters are. The best approach is to make the game as enjoyable and challenging as possible for the legit players and not concern themselves with the practice of botting from a design standpoint.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #49
    Quote from Melt

    Is this really all it takes to convince the masses? People are yelling about the 2nd coming and how this would fix the game... really?

    Shinier legendary particles and a statbitch is all it takes? Sounds like you guys are just liking the pictures.

    A mystic that simply increases stats... THAT'S IT??? This is how you want the addon to ship? +2 dex, +0,5% crit. Isn't that just the most basic and boring way to implement the mystic there is?

    5 runes per ability doesn't work. How do we fix this? We add a 6th rune... so fucking brilliant! Add a 6th rune, why didnt we come up with this a little earlier. Clearly the reason why 5 runes per ability doesn't work was because we lacked the final 6th one. -> Game is fixed!


    Oh and I found an even more stupid way to implement the mystic, How about all she does is add sockets. You know, because why the hell not? just let her add sockets to everything, even to sockets. That'll make me comeback, socketing the shit out of everything there is...


    NONE of these changes will make the game a longterm success or add much(any) depth to it.


    My take on the original post was that it was showing what could happen to the game after Loot 2.0 is implemented. Just fixing the loot might not provide much more gameplay for people (especially those that come in a week later with billions of gold, hit the AH for what they want, play for a week, get bored then whine on forums). I see this thread as suggestions of things that could improve the game after the Loot 2.0 has fixed one of the main widespread gripes people have with the game now.

    I certainly look forward to seeing what can become of the game when the loot is fixed, especially given some of the ideas I've seen, both here and elsewhere.

    I'm not sure if it was the same person that posted the suggestion, but I remember one I loved from an idea thread where it was suggested a random Loot Cave (my name, not theirs, as I can't remember :P). There would potentially be a few of these Caves spread throughout an Act in any number of possible locations, so the idea would be that you have to find these caves and be well rewarded for the effort. If the reward was worth the time, it would encourage exploring entire acts. This might appeal more to lower MP farmers or those that get bored with max-efficiency runs all the time, but anything that gives you a good reason/reward to go to different areas (like the density change did) is a good move in my opinion.

    Edit (after post below): Thanks for letting me know MrMonstrosity - all credit to you for another good idea! Here's the details from the link in the next post that I was referring to. Please note, the style of the original post was a set of fictional patch notes, hence the POV:


    Many ideas have been discussed by our developers in terms of how we can constantly add exploration back to game after the initial play through for our players. There’s nothing that saddens us more than seeing 90% population running the same act or in many cases the same zone over and over knowing that if they do anything different they’re hindering efficiency in both terms of items and experience gained. While repetition has always been part of the Diablo series we feel this can be cut down substantially. You’ve already seen improvements when it comes to giving players options in regards to this when we adjusted the monster density in patch 1.0.8, we’d like to go a bit further.

    In 1.0.9 we’ll be improving on the randomly generated side dungeons found in all acts across the game in Inferno difficulty. We’ve created new tiles for almost every zone across all 4 Acts which will allow spawn locations to be found in every part of the game. An entrance in the wall found in the Cathedral, a burrow found the in Dahlgur Oasis, many different possibilities exist. We’ll also be taking a look at every aspect of them to truly make them a random experience. Things such as:
    • Increasing the amount of spawn locations substantially in terms of both Acts and where they can spawn in each zone.
    • The difficulty, dungeons can be found with additional monster power levels above the current game.
    • Dungeon size, number of levels, the layout, and tile sets.
    • The type of monsters
    • The “end boss(s)”, which includes a random elite/champion pack which is buffed considerably

    Of course there needs to be an incentive to search out for these improved dungeons, which is why we’ve created them to provide a fairly substantial buff in terms of experience gained from the monsters inside and also completing the entire dungeon. We’ve also decided to add a new type of chest found exclusively inside these randomly spawned dungeons which not only provides a much higher than average chance to drop legendary items but also provides a small chance to find items of immense power that can’t be found anywhere else.

    We think by adding these new features it will promote exploration across all acts and provide a much needed type of end game experience for our players which doesn’t take away from Diablo III’s storyline.
    "It takes a man with real heart...to make beauty out of the stuff that makes us weep." - Clive Barker
  • #50
    Quote from Laevus


    My take on the original post was that it was showing what could happen to the game after Loot 2.0 is implemented. Just fixing the loot might not provide much more gameplay for people (especially those that come in a week later with billions of gold, hit the AH for what they want, play for a week, get bored then whine on forums). I see this thread as suggestions of things that could improve the game after the Loot 2.0 has fixed one of the main widespread gripes people have with the game now.

    I certainly look forward to seeing what can become of the game when the loot is fixed, especially given some of the ideas I've seen, both here and elsewhere.

    I'm not sure if it was the same person that posted the suggestion, but I remember one I loved from an idea thread where it was suggested a random Loot Cave (my name, not theirs, as I can't remember :P). There would potentially be a few of these Caves spread throughout an Act in any number of possible locations, so the idea would be that you have to find these caves and be well rewarded for the effort. If the reward was worth the time, it would encourage exploring entire acts. This might appeal more to lower MP farmers or those that get bored with max-efficiency runs all the time, but anything that gives you a good reason/reward to go to different areas (like the density change did) is a good move in my opinion.


    Hey Laevus,

    It as indeed me (the same poster) that talked about the random dungeons spawning in the game. It was one of the more fun features to put on a wish list, glad you liked it. The original thread is here: http://www.diablofans.com/topic/92276-patch-109-preview-a-dream/ .
  • #51
    Thanks for that, edited the relevant information into my post in case people are too lazy to look through and find it. For those that didn't see the ideas before, here's the link again, it's well worth the read:

    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/92276-patch-109-preview-a-dream/
    "It takes a man with real heart...to make beauty out of the stuff that makes us weep." - Clive Barker
  • #52
    Quote from Melt


    Nah you are right, Let's all hug each other and embrace any idea that simply says "better loot for everybody" or "more abilities = more diversity"...

    Instead of trying to figure out what's wrong with a system let's just keep nagging how much better that one single contribution is than everything Blizzard came up with. That'll lead to the most desirable outcome, will it not?

    If people seriously can't find anything to criticize in that post then it's probably for the best that Blizzard ignores us.




    Actually, a lot of people on the forums criticize the OP, mainly because of the MF/Paragon section of his post. I absolutely do not agree with everything he wrote, but still find two of his ideas to be quite cool.
    The first would be the 'Recognition for discovery' which is such a simple, yet powerful idea that could be used in a variety of ways to promote the actual playing of the game. Personally, getting some small recognition for my luck/perseverance and slightly improving one of my characters at the same time is more than appealing to me. I don't have trouble seeing Blizzard implementing something similar to this in the future.
    The second idea is the 'Empty Rune Slot', again seemingly a simple concept that has a ton of potential to drastically enhance the gameplay experience. Developers can go wild with an idea like this one, opening up a ton of possibilities for new builds. With something like bi-monthly additions of legendary items, similar to PoE, Blizzard could keep the game fresh for a pretty long time.

    This is my personal opinion, and I don't expect it to be universal or without flaws. Nor should you think that you know something that the 'masses' do not. If a lot of people like OP's ideas, maybe they're not wrong or delusional. Maybe they just have different taste and views on what would make Diablo 3 more fun. Your ideas are well though out, and I can appreciate the passion it took to go into such detail when writing about this game, but I still can't see your Charmwords and Imbues implemented into D3 any time soon, if ever.
    The developers intend to keep the game user-friendly and as simple as it can be, while trying to enhance the experience for those of us who bought Diablo 3 to play for years to come. And the community seems to recognize their intent. Because of that, simple, yet effective ideas similar to those of the OP can get more people behind them. These concepts are just more plausible. It's not all in the pretty pictures.
    "Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
  • #53
    Quote from EleSaturate

    Quote from Melt


    Nah you are right, Let's all hug each other and embrace any idea that simply says "better loot for everybody" or "more abilities = more diversity"...

    Instead of trying to figure out what's wrong with a system let's just keep nagging how much better that one single contribution is than everything Blizzard came up with. That'll lead to the most desirable outcome, will it not?

    If people seriously can't find anything to criticize in that post then it's probably for the best that Blizzard ignores us.




    Actually, a lot of people on the forums criticize the OP, mainly because of the MF/Paragon section of his post. I absolutely do not agree with everything he wrote, but still find two of his ideas to be quite cool.
    The first would be the 'Recognition for discovery' which is such a simple, yet powerful idea that could be used in a variety of ways to promote the actual playing of the game. Personally, getting some small recognition for my luck/perseverance and slightly improving one of my characters at the same time is more than appealing to me. I don't have trouble seeing Blizzard implementing something similar to this in the future.
    The second idea is the 'Empty Rune Slot', again seemingly a simple concept that has a ton of potential to drastically enhance the gameplay experience. Developers can go wild with an idea like this one, opening up a ton of possibilities for new builds. With something like bi-monthly additions of legendary items, similar to PoE, Blizzard could keep the game fresh for a pretty long time.

    This is my personal opinion, and I don't expect it to be universal or without flaws. Nor should you think that you know something that the 'masses' do not. If a lot of people like OP's ideas, maybe they're not wrong or delusional. Maybe they just have different taste and views on what would make Diablo 3 more fun. Your ideas are well though out, and I can appreciate the passion it took to go into such detail when writing about this game, but I still can't see your Charmwords and Imbues implemented into D3 any time soon, if ever.
    The developers intend to keep the game user-friendly and as simple as it can be, while trying to enhance the experience for those of us who bought Diablo 3 to play for years to come. And the community seems to recognize their intent. Because of that, simple, yet effective ideas similar to those of the OP can get more people behind them. These concepts are just more plausible. It's not all in the pretty pictures.


    Now THAT'S what I want to see. "This sounds great because blablabla", "This wouldn't work because blablabla". You can make a discussion off of this. You don't have to stop at saying they might implement runes, since there seems to be a general consensus on how amazing this could be, you could go a step further and make more examples or improvements to the system. You know... like a real discussion.

    Instead all I usually see is "Hire this guy, derp" or "This will clearly save the game and bring back 9 million players and make them play the game for 12 years" type of bullshit that doesn't help anybody.

    The ideas like imbues, charmwords and runepower aren't necessarily what the thread was about, it was more about parallel progression and to show how much more beneficial a system could be if it was based around constant small rewards instead of one steep dps meter climb.
  • #54
    Quote from Melt

    You can even clearly see how much OP cares as he doesnt even bother to respond to anybody... "It's all about the fame"


    I've definitely been reading people's comments, but it's not just up to me to respond to them. I want the community to discuss why an idea might be bad, good, or just how it could be improved. I don't think any of my ideas are the end all be all, I'm simply putting them out for discussion.

    Reading the comments on here, Reddit, and the official forums have already given me thoughts on how I could have improved on the ideas. I do my best not to change the original post since I don't want others to get confused if they look at it for the first time after someone has already made a suggestion on how to improve it.
  • #55
    I think this post goes a long way to showing why developing for D3 is so difficult. You can come up with a dozen great ideas and then just as easily come up with two dozen reasons they won't work. I imagine most of the days at Blizzard work like this. This is also why they test the shit out of everything, because writing down an idea and actually play testing and seeing how it interacts with every other aspect of the game, how it feels, whether it's satisfying and worth following through on, are two completely different things.

    Not saying all of your ideas are bad, but that the counter points being made seem just as valid. Nothing here really stands out as a solid and obvious fix to the game's issues.

    Nice effort, still, and if the devs do take notice, they can use it to get a better idea of what the community wants out fo the game. MOAR, essentially heh
  • #56
    I think its a mixture of good and bad ideas..as well as ones they just won't implement now or at least until the expansion. Blizzard has to make money so you won't see some obvious enhancements or big changes made into the game at this point I'd wager (adding the mystic in and big crafting changes). I think some of your more subtle changes are fine such as the changing drop rates and their associated graphic beams. The achievement for collecting things isn't a bad idea however they would have to restrict trading unidentified items otherwise that achievement would be pretty easy to complete..even if it just a modest 4% dmg buff.

    I think using the unique spawns for a greater picture is certainly worth looking into so I'm fine with using them for crafting materials..but I wouldn't want TOO many crafting materials as per your 81 unique monster count.

    I do however think that people get too up in arms about having an end game.. Diablo 2's end game would have been ubers..and diablo 3's is essentially the same thing with getting your ring.

    Diablo 3 isn't supposed to have a definitive end game and time sink..because farming and killing mobs is your time sink.

    The biggest problems I feel Diablo 3 has even more so than itemization is
    • stupid fucking quest based games.
    • lack of any sort of pvp (current one is garbage) They need to increase public game sizes and allow for world based pvp..This would require either making specific areas pvp friendly..or making the starting areas larger since most people would prefer to dual directly outside of town.
  • #57
    Quote from IgnatiusReilly

    I think this post goes a long way to showing why developing for D3 is so difficult. You can come up with a dozen great ideas and then just as easily come up with two dozen reasons they won't work. I imagine most of the days at Blizzard work like this. This is also why they test the shit out of everything, because writing down an idea and actually play testing and seeing how it interacts with every other aspect of the game, how it feels, whether it's satisfying and worth following through on, are two completely different things.

    Not saying all of your ideas are bad, but that the counter points being made seem just as valid. Nothing here really stands out as a solid and obvious fix to the game's issues.

    Nice effort, still, and if the devs do take notice, they can use it to get a better idea of what the community wants out fo the game. MOAR, essentially heh


    Yes this is a huge problem we have with the current D3. When they developed they had this shiny diamond but they kept removing edges all the time and now we have this round characterless ball. They just wanted to make sure the game was as smooth as possible. I think we can still see there is a lot of things they can add.

    However, as a community we have the responsibility to really show what we would want and stop yelling "hire this guy" at every idiot that suggests to implement socketing or other trivial bullshit.
  • #58
    Quote from Melt

    Now THAT'S what I want to see. "This sounds great because blablabla", "This wouldn't work because blablabla". You can make a discussion off of this. You don't have to stop at saying they might implement runes, since there seems to be a general consensus on how amazing this could be, you could go a step further and make more examples or improvements to the system. You know... like a real discussion.

    Instead all I usually see is "Hire this guy, derp" or "This will clearly save the game and bring back 9 million players and make them play the game for 12 years" type of bullshit that doesn't help anybody.

    You can even clearly see how much OP cares as he doesnt even bother to respond to anybody... "It's all about the fame"


    Probably you're right.
    People should explain why idea X is great, why idea Y sux etc, but you know, if you agree on what he wrote I don't see why you should say why.

    I mean, I just agree.. why? Because I see the game the same way the OP does.

    If you want my opinion on the different topics here you are:

    Rarity
    I want legendaries to be legendaries.
    I remember how hard it was to get high-level runes or uniques in diablo 2 and the feeling you had when you found them.
    In diablo 3 it's not the same: you find a mempo? Good... now let's see if it has crit, if else... *crap*.

    I can bring up the "it has X primary stat so it isn't for my class" matter:
    in diablo 2, if I dropped the unique shako I'd jump on my chair straight away and I'd know that it can be used by any class and that it would be useful to any of them.

    In diablo 3 it's not the same: have a look on the stormshield for example... it's clearly a barbarian shield. Even if it might be good for other classes it doesn't stand a chance with a pure-barbarian-stat-stormshield (I hope you can understand what I mean).

    Rewarding the Hunt
    It's simply amazing.
    I just disagree with the achivements giving the player a bonus, but other than that I think that knowing the lore and getting the achivement for every legendary is pretty cool.

    About the magic find I think it just need some tweaks (I wrote a suggestion on a post above).

    Crafting
    Getting specific crafting materials from unique mobs is very cool.
    Finally you can look for something to kill in the game.. a REAL objective to accomplish to get something that you know IS worth to get.
    I also agree on what he worte about gems: less and every gem droppable.

    Maybe the mystic can be tweaked (mostly the costs but I think that the whole idea is just a base idea for the devs to get inspiration from) but if that is one of many other functionalities she has I think it's ok like it is.

    Legendary Items
    I agree with people who says that you don't solve anything by just adding a 6th rune.
    On the thread here on Diablofans about how to improve skills I suggested to remove two runes from each skill and/or merge some of them so it's easier for the devs to balance the whole thing.
    With that premise I think that giving a whole new rune to a specific item or a "legendary property" is very interesting and most importantly this suggestion is very close to what the devs want right now: game breaking legendaries and builds built around items.
  • #59
    A single guy can come up with ideas that would totally and radically change the state of the game... for the better!

    All these ideas are amazing, making the game more complex, engaging, more interesting and timespending worthy.

    But I cannot help myself to immediately think of Blizzard. Best company out there yet time goes by with nothing happening. I seriously think they don't have a job asignment called ''Thinker'' or anything along those lines, and they really need one. OR JUST LISTEN THE COMUNITY!...

    Great post, am sure some blizz guy would get a glimpse on it and, who knows, they might aswell become this tiny bit better at designing diablo III's future, hopefully the immediate one.
  • #60
    Quote from Glorym

    A single guy can come up with ideas that would totally and radically change the state of the game... for the better!

    All these ideas are amazing, making the game more complex, engaging, more interesting and timespending worthy.

    But I cannot help myself to immediately think of Blizzard. Best company out there yet time goes by with nothing happening. I seriously think they don't have a job asignment called ''Thinker'' or anything along those lines, and they really need one. OR JUST LISTEN THE COMUNITY!...

    Great post, am sure some blizz guy would get a glimpse on it and, who knows, they might aswell become this tiny bit better at designing diablo III's future, hopefully the immediate one.


    I wouldn't say nothing is happening..you do realize its not a simple process of simply just changing a line of code and then flipping a switch and putting in changes. The proposed changes (not all of them) would require huge amounts of time to develop, test and implement. Between each of those phases you would have project management ,quality assurance, testing, and then the final product. I don't feel like spewing out a ton of crap about the system development life cycle and all that shit but just because you haven't heard anything..doesn't mean it isn't happening.
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