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Loot 2.0, discovering its true potential.

  • #201
    I'll keep it short, I've read through the entire thing and I don't think I found a single flaw. I especially LOVED your theory about NV. Great stuff! I really hope Blizzard will elicit what they need from this post and make the game better for everyone! :D
  • #202
    5,000,000 for the initial upgrade? I played D3 when it came out, and a little bit more recently, In all that time probably 4-5 months. I only ever had about 750,000 in the bank. With lvling gems and crafting gear I never broke 1 mil. I think 5 mil is a bit high for a solo player that doesn't use the AH.

    Gold should not be the deciding factor in whether or no someone can get the best gear. That just encourages botting and lets be real, gold is boring. No one wants to grind so they can pick up 4 million gold. People will grind to find enchantment drops though or ingredients to use on enchantments. And most importantly drops are just as viable for solo as they are for MP, where as gold gain varies drastically for solo to MP/AH, non AH. This would be a great time to add items to the game that you can't AH... jeez broke this game so hard.

    Also, "Earn Nephalem valor at 2x the rate" would re-break the game, forcing you to only use that character that had that rare.

    This game still has the best combat of all the dungeon crawlers, PoE just knocks the socks of D3 in terms of itemization and build diversity (and frankly economy).
  • #203
    Quote from ocelot113

    5,000,000 for the initial upgrade? I played D3 when it came out, and a little bit more recently, In all that time probably 4-5 months. I only ever had about 750,000 in the bank. With lvling gems and crafting gear I never broke 1 mil. I think 5 mil is a bit high for a solo player that doesn't use the AH.

    Gold should not be the deciding factor in whether or no someone can get the best gear. That just encourages botting and lets be real, gold is boring. No one wants to grind so they can pick up 4 million gold. People will grind to find enchantment drops though or ingredients to use on enchantments. And most importantly drops are just as viable for solo as they are for MP, where as gold gain varies drastically for solo to MP/AH, non AH. This would be a great time to add items to the game that you can't AH... jeez broke this game so hard.

    Also, "Earn Nephalem valor at 2x the rate" would re-break the game, forcing you to only use that character that had that rare.

    This game still has the best combat of all the dungeon crawlers, PoE just knocks the socks of D3 in terms of itemization and build diversity (and frankly economy).


    I agree completely with the fact that gold should Not be the deciding factor. Interestingly though, a lot of people and even blizzard seem to be under the impression that such gold sinks bring about a balance in the economy even though they actually force people into using the AH(especially because they are balanced around those people that have extreme amounts of gold, even billions). Oh well, maybe they will realise how wrong they are After they implement it, similarly to the epiphany they had with the AH(that it does more harm than good to the game), even though it was not that difficult to foresee.

    PoE is clearly in the lead regarding itemization, build diversity and economy. If we learned from it, improve on their ideas, D3 could truly become a worthy successor of D2.
  • #204
    Great idea about the achivements for specific types of gear. I would go a little bit further.
    There are not much achivements to earn right now. Since new patches (Infernal Machine, Paragon system and new Shrines)... It is suspicios to me because it is easy to invent new achivements.

    Few Examples.


    1) "LEGENDARY COLLECTION" - Similar to Unique Collection where player have to kill HUGE set of Unique elite monsters. Why not go mad and set ALL legendary items to IDENTIFY (or for example count only ones with STAR on the ground to pick up). Would let achive nerds (like me) to have a lot of fun :) In addition this Achivement could give a player permanent bonus to MF like 3/6/9/12/30% (for each grade like 10/30/60/90/200 uniques).


    2) Achivement to get ALL five shrines on the player in the same time. A little reward like permanent additional +2% of each shrine bonus.


    3) I am almost sure but since noone did it before it also should be suggested. Few Achivements for completing this things.

    3a) Infernal Machine:
    3 sub achivements for earning 3 keys.
    1 achivement for making Infernal Machine

    3b) Infernal Machine:
    3 sub achivements for earning 3 components to create ring.
    4 sub achivements for creating each ring
    1 achivement for completing 4 rings.


    4) Dueling achivements...
    Don't bother to spam my e-mail :) BNet Account registered on a different one, with different password.
  • #205
    I've read your other post in the past and really enjoyed it. Fully read this one and here's my take on it:

    Rarity of Legendaries and Legendaries in General:
    -> I think its a great idea to have the sparkle effect for a rarer legendary.
    -> However, the Legendaries as they stand right now aren't all that legendary. As this game is all about free sockets, weapon damage, main stat, CC, CD, and IAS because the Developers in their wisdom decided to make everything based off weapon damage, it makes a legendary item get regaled to trash status if it doesn't have these stats on them. Doesn't matter if it deals 1200 as a 2hander for DPS, but if it doesn't have a socket and either CD / IAS / Life Steal on it, it is usually not worth it. Which is why you don't see anyone running around with a Maximus. Coolish effect, but is regaled as trash because of lack of stats.
    -> So to truly make legendaries, legendary, they need to do something special that offsets not having the critical hit damage/chance or the IAS or the free socket, etc...
    -> As far as special runes for skills goes, I think it could work. I think it would be even more interesting IF you could have both runes active at the same time. Like for your Wind Chill Rune. I think that if you could have that active plus say Hurricane (move as your movement speed) it would make these legendary based skill runes even more potent as you could effectively have two runes active for the same skill. You could build a build around two active runes for the same skill, yah? Or even a legendary that allows you to use two runes of your choice for a given skill (ie Blood Funnel and Hurricane at the same time). This would make legendaries, legendary and offset the loss of either CD, IAS or even CC.

    Rewards for the Item Hunt for Legendaries
    -> Sounds like a great idea.
    -> I would prefer it to be more incremental however for the bonuses, so that EVEN if you only find one of the items in the set, you get something for it. Particularly if the item in question is useless to you and may not even sell on the AH.

    Magic Find
    -> I think that the magic find per stack is too low. Having it too low per stack means that if a player ever wants to reach the 500% maximum they'd have to play the game either on excessive MP levels and/or play for several hours on end. IF the game's item hunt was ABOVE STELLAR then I could see myself playing for 2-3 hours at a time, but without the item hunt this would be torture.
    -> Instead I think it should be:
    MP1 = 10% MP2 = 20% MP3 = 30% MP4 = 40% MP5 = 50% MP6 = 60% MP7 = 70% MP8 = 80%
    MP9 = 90% MP10 = 100%
    -> Why so high? Well I have attempted MP 10 on my Barbarian (about 190k buffed DPS) and it took me about 12 minutes to take down a single pack. Since everything has so much more HP and damage on the higher MP levels, it should reward you with requiring FAR fewer stacks to reach the cap. As it takes over 10 times the time to kill a single pack it should reward you for your effort.

    Crafting
    -> I think that salvaging items should net more rewards. Considering that a higher quality item will produce the same number of materials as a poorer quality item, doesn't make much sense. (ie A grandfather produces the same mats as a pair of Depth Diggers). I think that to improve salvaging that they should make higher tiered items salvage into more materials.
    -> I think that the current crafting system should be FIXED before they go on to add new recipes and the like. The majority of recipes available pre-patches do not provide very good items for the materials invested in them. The newer recipes gives a decent risk vs reward system. The old recipes are high risk low return. I think they should buff up all the older recipes so that a player could be self-found for all their lower levels by crafting their own equipment. As someone who has played Vanilla WoW (haven't touched it for years) I was used to being self-found and crafting my own gear. When I got to Diablo 3 and heard you could craft your own gear I was so happy until I say what the system was like. Salvaging produces far too few materials, the gold cost is excessive for a low-level starting out, and the item produced is too heavily random that it is frustrating. Think of this: A barbarian trying to craft a pair of shoulders and instead of getting STR or VIT, they keep getting INT or DEX, with low rolls on that that makes them not worthy of being sold.
    -> I think that crafted legendaries should get a major buff in power to make them comparable to other legendaries OR give them something special.
    -> As cool as it would be to get a rare crafting material from a purple guy that is bind on account; is a terrible idea. Do you know that for some uniques, it is next to impossible to get them to spawn? Like take Bashiok. I've run through the entire Oasis over 100 times and never had him spawn (I still have the Rakinishu blade that I want to use on him). This would be a good idea IF and only IF one of the rare uniques that would spawn in an area is guaranteed to spawn in that area for every game. Otherwise this would make things onerously annoying. Having more of the purple uniques spawn in general would make getting the achievement less onerous as well.
    -> I agree that making all gemstones be able to drop would be muchly appreciated. I've been playing since launch and have never had more than 5 million gold at a time, and haven't been able to get any good items to drop to sell, so having top tiered gems is impossible for me (I'm not referring to the Marquise... I think that should remain as a gold sink). Making only one type of gem drop in the first three difficulties is a great idea... plus I never really stock up on the lower ones anyways. Like when I see a flawless square something drop these days I don't bother picking it up as it doesn't sell well AND it takes 10,000s of gold to make it into something useful. And as for those that say that I should then play more to get more gold, my response is that I have better things to do with my time these days than play a game that doesn't reward we well for my time. EVEN Dark Souls in all its frustrating moments rewards me better for my time than Diablo 3 does.

    I hope that blizzard takes some of your things into consideration, but if they are going to remove MF totally and place all the burden on NV, I would like to see the amount per stack increased heavily... as we currently get 15% MF per stack, and if I now have to kill 15 packs to get the same effect on MP1 I'm not going to play Diablo 3 anymore. You also neglected to mention how much MF you get on MP0? Do you get 0% MF for the stacks?
  • #206
    I have created an account on this Forum just to pay my greatest respects to this incredible quality work.

    This is game design and creativity at its best.

    Adding more marks of respects would be useless, your work speaks for you.
  • #207
    This is a really good thread with cool ideas, but some of them are just not that clever. The whole Crafting stuff is just a "more kind of materials" thing.
    But the question is: Why? Why do we need 7 kind of Brimstones AND an absurdly high amount of "special mats"? I mean, there isn't even enough stuff to craft for the existing mats und you want a ton of MORE mats. Wouldn't it be better, if they use that, what is already in the game? I mean stuff like:
    - existing materials
    - gems
    - white Items (would give them a reason to be in the game)
    - blue items (see white)
    And in addition to these things you could add 1-3 new materials.
    Quality > Quantity. Just MORE materials will not change anything. There is just no way, to implement so many useful recipes for 30+ different materials.


    The same goes with the new runes from legendaries. Barbarians don't use 4 of 5 WW runes und you want to put a 6th rune to the list, which nobody would use, cause the speed is too good.
    Blizzard should balance the existing runes before they put new ones in the game.
    Example for WW:
    Make the base skill use normal speed and change the rune to "+10% movementspeed" or sth like that. And with one little change people will have a huge choice. more lifesteal, more tornadoes, more dmg or more speed? And for the barbarians with low critchance there would also be the Ressource-Rune.
    I bet people will flame me for this, like: barb is so op and you want to buff him???
    Well yeah, i would buff the skill WW, because it's not the WW which makes him OP. Its skills like Sprint and Berserker. These skills could need a nerf, but not WW.
    I think a better solution would be to give a Skillchange, which affects all runes. Simple example:
    A new Rune for Hydra, with which you can have 3 active. With that you would have the choice between 1 "runed hydra" or 3 "normal hydras". But if you make the "you can have 3 hydras active at once" for the whole skill, you would have more freedom in choice. Instead of one new rune/way to use this skill, you would have 5 new ways to use this skill.

    Next of your suggestions: only NV for MF.
    There are so many flaws in such a system.
    1. you would punish people who want to make short runs. You have only like 20 minutes and want to make a fast run? Forget it. Maybe you would get a decent amount of MF after that time and then the "real run" would start, but, sadly, your time is over.
    2. What is with the people, who want to play together? Let's say, you are farming the shit out of Act2 and have almost full stacks. Now a friend comes online and would like to play Act1 with you. If you leave the game, you lose your stacks and with them like 30 minutes of "work" getting them. So what would be your answer? I bet it is "sry, will not leave my game"
    3. Imagine you work your MF up to the cap in half an hour aaaaand disconnect! Wouldn't that be more frustrating than enjoyable?

    [edit] but i agree with you that the paragonsystem has to change. In D2 you could level your character very fast to a decent level, give him MF equip and farm, farm, farm. And then you could go on another character and play him without the feeling of losing something. In D3 you have to level for weeks until you get alot of MF and at that moment all your lowlvl chars are feeling like a punishment. Blizzards way to fix this is the most crappy one: Huge amount of more EXP, so that everyone can level in hyperspeed.
    Right now the Paragonlevels are like that: Leveling through Farming so that you can farm better. Thats like a vicious circle. For what are we farming and why is the quality of items for a highlvl char better? Wouldn't it be better to show the might of a highlvl character by giving him real might/power and not just more yellow/brown/green stuff on the ground? [/edit]

    Achievements:
    Cool idea. Only thing, that bothers me is, that you can't really aim for these achievements. You can't say "today i'm gonna farm a Grandfather." You can't influence what you get. The idea with achievements is cool, but, in my opinion, achievements should be something, that you aim for and not something that you get randomly.
  • #208
    lets hope we get something fun
  • #209
    One little thing to add... (I think I haven't seen it in the post, even if it already may be taken in consideration). The creation of different Monster difficulties has given a good opportunity to get experience far faster, but the loot hasn't been changed accordingly to it : I have a 35 level monk who cannot get items better than "available at level 26", and the same with other characters. There is no point into increasing the difficulty and allowing characters to gain levels easier if the equipment they get on the field is not of the slightest interest : here it is not a problem of quantity but of quality and balance. Loot must take the character's level in consideration and not only its progression in the game, in order not to force players to switch all the time between their characters to create a good (normal) equipment. One more reason that brings now so many items under Haedrig's hammer...
  • #210
    Loved it all!

    I really hope D3 developers have the chance to see this :)

    I totally support this!!!

    -Whosthat
  • #211
    Quote from Whosthat

    I really hope D3 developers have the chance to see this :)


    They already saw this. And mentioned it several times. For example here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/10509961/community-commentary-the-potential-of-loot-20-7-25-2013
  • #212
    I like everything I read here. Especially the removal of MF from gear. I hate feeling controlled by that stupid stat that makes no sense at all. Some magical stat that makes finding gear easier. WTF?

    But why all this talk of reducing drop rates? Why does the item hunt need to be a grind? I agree the best things need to be rare so that not everyone and their dog has them but why does it have to be so rare? Why can't there be a system that doesn't require 1000 hours of farming and still be fun and rewarding?

    Every time I hear talk of reducing drop rates and things being based on luck my heart drops. My favorite part of Diablo II was I wanted a certain item for a build I was working on and I could go to the boss in the act and difficulty that it dropped most off of and kill them for awhile and I would get it. In DIII so far I have spent a month trying to get a legendary ring and can't get it to drop for the life of me.

    I would like a system in place that I can choose a path to get certain items that I want and after putting in X amount of work I get the results I want. None of this wasting my time day in day out and have nothing to show for it.

    I am hoping this attitude changes now that the AH is gone. I didn't want the GAH to go (definitely wanted the RMAH to go) but I hate how the drops and game play were based around the AH. Be nice if they made the game as if the AH didn't exist but then had the GAH for those who wanted to use it.

    Thinking back to it an AH in Diablo II would have been awesome. All the hours spent making new characters to try different builds. Could have made good use of the AH then. Instead of the AH being solely for looking at overpriced inferno rares.
  • #213
    What about this for an idea. Take your Legendary Items and make them have life. When you use them in game play they gain experience as well. Just like you level up, so will your Legendary Items. You then will get a free point to spend to upgrade one of the affixes on your Legendary Item. Not every Legendary Item should have this, in fact it could be a special affix roll. This could save gold in terms of gold sinks with the Mystic to upgrade your stats to their perfect scores. You could also scale them. As a current affix gets closer to the max value, it requires 2 points or 3 points... Thoughts?
  • #214
    Good iDea
  • #215
    I just read this thread again for the first time in a long time, and I still love this stuff.
  • #216

    We obviously all love this thread and Mr. Monstrosity, but there's no need to necro it and have people go through 10 pages of pretty old posts.

    I'm thinking it might be best to lock it (and not cause much confusion to those reading) - and if anyone wants to discuss the ideas presented here in light of the current state of RoS, they're free to quote the original post and do it in a new thread :)

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