Loot 2.0, discovering its true potential.

  • #61
    Quote from Kamisei2400

    Huh, thunderfury required luck? Don't remember needing luck.

    Luck was involved in getting both bindings to drop. Diablo has always been about luck, the only thing you can change is how many times you get to play the lotto machine (efficiency).

    Quote from Stephenk291

    I wouldn't say nothing is happening..you do realize its not a simple process of simply just changing a line of code and then flipping a switch and putting in changes. The proposed changes (not all of them) would require huge amounts of time to develop, test and implement. Between each of those phases you would have project management ,quality assurance, testing, and then the final product. I don't feel like spewing out a ton of crap about the system development life cycle and all that shit but just because you haven't heard anything..doesn't mean it isn't happening.


    Yep, Blizzard should already have some big plans in the works. They keep mentioning that it's a "total package" which can't be added in pieces which is pretty exciting. It sucks for the time being as we're stuck with a pretty bland game, but I think it will be worth it in the long run. I can't wait to see what they have in store for us.

    They should do weekly updates with the development, showcasing what ideas they're trying out and why it might not be working. We as a community could at least discuss the pros/cons with the ideas to help guide the developers.
  • #62
    Quote from MrMonstrosity

    They should do weekly updates with the development, showcasing what ideas they're trying out and why it might not be working. We as a community could at least discuss the pros/cons with the ideas to help guide the developers.


    While I would love the feedback and the insight to know what they're working on, I also think this would be a bad idea. You've seen what it's like on the forums already, it's a mixed crowd of opinions (as it should be and always will be). If they were to release an idea out to the public for feedback, they could spend even longer trying to get everyone's opinion tucked into or dealing with even worse PR and community fallout than they've already suffered with this game. People would argue over what they want, what they think should be in it and scream if their precious idea hasn't made it through. It would make the situation much, much worse I think.

    I may be wrong, but I believe they asked the community for feedback regarding magic find gear swapping and solutions, and next thing we know, an entirely new Paragon system turned up with no warning. Ubers and keys and Hellfire rings? Where did they come from?! The surprise is amazing.

    It would be nice to get a few sneak peaks with minimal details, just to whet our appetites, but I really hope they don't ask for feedback before just dumping the whole patch on us.
    "It takes a man with real heart...to make beauty out of the stuff that makes us weep." - Clive Barker
  • #63
    Quote from Laevus

    Quote from MrMonstrosity

    They should do weekly updates with the development, showcasing what ideas they're trying out and why it might not be working. We as a community could at least discuss the pros/cons with the ideas to help guide the developers.


    While I would love the feedback and the insight to know what they're working on, I also think this would be a bad idea. You've seen what it's like on the forums already, it's a mixed crowd of opinions (as it should be and always will be). If they were to release an idea out to the public for feedback, they could spend even longer trying to get everyone's opinion tucked into or dealing with even worse PR and community fallout than they've already suffered with this game. People would argue over what they want, what they think should be in it and scream if their precious idea hasn't made it through. It would make the situation much, much worse I think.

    I may be wrong, but I believe they asked the community for feedback regarding magic find gear swapping and solutions, and next thing we know, an entirely new Paragon system turned up with no warning. Ubers and keys and Hellfire rings? Where did they come from?! The surprise is amazing.

    It would be nice to get a few sneak peaks with minimal details, just to whet our appetites, but I really hope they don't ask for feedback before just dumping the whole patch on us.


    I guess you're probably right, the Paragon levels were neat but the Keywardens/Hellfire Ring seemed like such an obvious band-aid. In truth they should have never been added, or at least moved to something like Purple Elites instead of throwing random bosses in the game world. That one you can tell was a quick fix with no thought.

    Little sneak peaks would be good however.
  • #64
    Quote from MrMonstrosity


    I guess you're probably right, the Paragon levels were neat but the Keywardens/Hellfire Ring seemed like such an obvious band-aid. In truth they should have never been added, or at least moved to something like Purple Elites instead of throwing random bosses in the game world. That one you can tell was a quick fix with no thought.

    Little sneak peaks would be good however.


    Far as sneak peaks go, the topic on the main page about about changing healing/damage intake/monster affix mechanics is plenty enough to ponder about.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #65
    My main gripe with the ubers and hellfire rings is more in terms of laziness and breaking any kind of lore and immersion. I wouldn't mind so much, but it's the way they used existing areas of the game with existing boss models and existing abilities. They just put two bosses together, gave them a buff and a different name.

    I understand that creating these things aren't quick or easy to do, but the fact they re-used existing stuff like that really did scream band aid quick fix like nothing else and I found it really disappointing.

    Thanks for the heads up on the healing/damage news on the front page, somehow I missed that one completely. It lets us know a rough idea of what they're looking at, explains why and discusses some suggestions without making anything definite. Let's hope for a few more of these to give us some hints to their thinking!
    "It takes a man with real heart...to make beauty out of the stuff that makes us weep." - Clive Barker
  • #66
    @MrMonstrosity : Man, I almost had tears in my eyes, your post is beautiful ! I made an account in here JUST to say how awesome your suggestions are !

    My main fear is that D3 is mainly a main stream game, it doesn't have any depth on purpose so it doesn't get too complicated, so it is accessible to all.

    There's an opposition between, on one side, game depth, and on the other accessibility, and while I think depth is the way to go, it must be well explained and progressive. Things must exist and be explained, by ingame notices. My fear is that Blizzard are afraid of going the depth road. That makes the game bland and boring after a while.

    Also, you didn't say what you'd like in terms of drop rates and boss fights, which is IMO a key point to the loot hunt experience. Here's a post I made a while ago in the official forums :

    Travis day stated in the Itemization Developer's journal :

    "We want to make it fun and rewarding to hunt down new items through play, and really instill the feeling that your next awesome item could come from anywhere, and is just around the corner."

    What do you guys think about this ? Is it better to go for the "awesome item just around the corner" idea, or to get a more predictable system loot system ?

    I think this is an important matter because it determines the expectations of the player when he's playing. My feeling is that, when you're expecting loot all the time, you're actually never expecting it. When it drops you're never really excited, because you didn't have that psychological preparation time, asking yourself "Ok, is this mob/quest/boss/event/whatever gonna give a nice legendary ?".

    I kill elites never expecting anything, I kill bosses never expecting anything, I run through thousands of trash mobs without any expectations, because I'm supposed to expect a drop every mob I kill. It's simply impossible to keep expectations high all the time, even if the itemization gets better with future patches/xpacks.

    I feel that D3 is lacking tension. It is lacking landmarks, where you know you'll be rewarded for doing something. D2 allowed players to farm bosses. They could build up their hopes and expect something.

    D3 has a lot of potential to have those kind of landmarks, of high excitement moments, and Nephalem Valor is a really cool tool for that. The player has to build up something before going for the high reward. Monster Power is also a very useful tool in this goal.


    So, what do you guys think ? Is it better to have that awesome drop waiting, just around the corner for you, or would you prefer a more predictable looting experience, where you know some landmarks have a higher chance to yield good loot ?


    Now, here's an idea to make boss killing more fun (could be applied to unique monsters as well !) :

    Basically NV stacks give two bonuses :
    - The bonuses we have today : 15% MF/GF per stack, maximum of 5 stacks for 75% bonus MF/GF
    - The new bonus : each NV stack gives a 1.5% chance for a boss to drop a legendary item, added to the already existing chance of a legendary drop (probably something like 0.01 or something like this). Maximum of 20 stacks for 30% chance of a legendary drop from a boss

    This system would reward players for playing the game, and with 5 stacks the player has a 7.5 chance which is not bad, but doing longer runs have a higher chance of rewarding the player. Also, this is not changed by MP, so it benefits everyone (except MP gives MF, which ofcourse influences the drop chance). MF is very good for quality loot when not fighting bosses, and LF (legendary find) is good for bosses.

    I do agree that there MUST be incentive to kill bosses because they are fun, and most of all they can create expectations. That's, IMO, the most lacking point of D3 : theplayer NEVER has high expectations for something awesome to happen. That's mostly due to the "awesome loot right around the corner" philosophy applied to the game today, vs the more predictable system we had in D2.

    I mean, it was really awesome to get your hopes up for a drop, instead of mindlessly roaming around without any expectations because awesome stuff is supposed to come from every mob, but it rarely comes by. D3 lacks the thrilling, exciting moments.


    I would love to hear your thoughts on Boss fight rewards and drop rates of legendary items in general !
    Once again, awesome post !!
  • #67
    Oh, BTW, I absolutely LOVE your suggestion on Magic Find, and I'd take that over mine any day of the week. My question concerns more the Boss/events/achievements/etc part. The fact that we can't get our expectations high for anything worthy of it (today all we have are keys and organs, and Hellfire is lame in terms of reward).

    One question about the MF suggestion : would the MF bonus stick to the player after he quit the game ? Or would he always start the game with 0 stacks like right now ? If that's the case, then 500 stacks would be impossible to reach, penalizing very hardly players in lower MP's.
  • #68
    I'm really digging the idea of having achievements for Legendary items. Perhaps they should extend this to legendary plans as well! That's one achievement we might never complete in our lifetime... but still!

    I like the idea of Mystic as well, but the end-result of that tinkering should be that your item is BoA.
  • #69
    Quote from Mist3rHyde

    Oh, BTW, I absolutely LOVE your suggestion on Magic Find, and I'd take that over mine any day of the week. My question concerns more the Boss/events/achievements/etc part. The fact that we can't get our expectations high for anything worthy of it (today all we have are keys and organs, and Hellfire is lame in terms of reward).

    One question about the MF suggestion : would the MF bonus stick to the player after he quit the game ? Or would he always start the game with 0 stacks like right now ? If that's the case, then 500 stacks would be impossible to reach, penalizing very hardly players in lower MP's.


    I really like the ideas that you've posted. When I get back from the office I'll try to add to the discussion. There's lots to talk about and you've given me some inspiration for another topic which should have been included in my original post.
  • #70
    Like the idea of achievement self found + small bonus. The lore idea is nice.

    I like that you’re trying revamp MF but it caters strictly to rich and no-life players (yes I said it I don’t have the time to commit to killing 100 unique bosses in one sitting). The current setup works for all types of players, the main issue not playing on an alt because of the paragon level. As a causal player I'll find 1-3 legendaries in one night and my highest paragon level is 34 (all my other chars are in the 20's and a lot of dead HC chars). Instead of making it account wide just allow a bonus to exp % (make it significant) up to the highest paragon level you have within your account. It hardly seems fair that people who have at least one paragon 100 getting screwed out of their work. On top of that if your suggestion does take effect then anyone who reached a paragon level 100 has nothing to show for it, an extra 300 to stats wow. You’d need to revamp how paragon levels work or have a bunched of pissed off people on your hands.

    Any suggestion for revamping crafting is needed since it’s an abysmal joke as is (insert depth and complexity please). The only saving grace right now is they added the BoA’s. As for the mention about stash issues with more materials I hardly see the problem. The only time my stash has ever been an issue is when I had multiple toons below 60, and hardcore mode. I have 1.5 empty pages in my stash on softcore, it would be less but I don't try to sell everything I find anymore (not worth the money/time). Well and players like Maka would have issues as well I suppose. Maybe just a separate stash for crafting would be an easy fix (I say this loosely).

    I like the idea of the mystic but I think you should add an ability to transfer 60% of a stat into a different stat (using reforging in Wow as an example). I think it would be nice to drop vit for a chance to freeze etc…

    I like the idea of new skill slots with legendaries; however Blizzard seems to be anti complex these days and that means they would have even more runes to balance… its bad enough as is. It would be friggen awesome though.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #71
    Rarity

    I like the idea of having different drop rates for some ultimate items. There should always be items that are near impossible to find – it is the unachievable goal that fuels us sometimes to grind endlessly in the hopes for such an item to drop. Currently all gear can be bought on AH, all gear is available, nothing is out of reach..

    I also think that the rarest items should be BOA so that you can only find them not buy them from AH.. To me the only way I am ever going to get excited for item drops again is if I find an item that I cannot buy..

    Rewarding the Hunt

    Achievements should not be tied to in game bonuses (other than cosmetics ie banners).
    Probably better placed in the Journal/Quest Log you mentioned.

    We need to have more Goals in D3 – like the ‘unique collection achievement’ or even things like a quest where we need to collect items(like keys) from different mini-bosses so that the blacksmith can create more portals – eg to a Super Long Jar of Souls Event.

    Magic Find idea – Do not like this idea as it punishes those of us who have limited game/run times...

    Crafting

    I like the brimstones and if they fix ‘black weapon damage’ on items then this could be really cool

    Example – I want to create a desolator wand with ice elemental damage as maybe in future it will synergise with a spell like meteor-comet.
    So now I need to use Icy Brimstones in conjunction with my desolator wand craft.
    Maybe the more Icy Brimstones I use the higher the chance that the damage range of the item will increase..

    I also like the idea of finding crafting materials from certain enemies. Again this is REWARDING THE HUNT!

    For the Mystic – I do not mind the gold cost.. as the closer you get to perfection the higher the cost. It is targeted at the top teir of players who have found their way to the top of the layer cake.
    HOWEVER - I think that the mystic should be handled with the same design philosophy in mind of ‘Rewarding the Hunt’ – not your gold bank. Maybe the crafting materials found from the unique monsters are what can be used for the mystic.

    Legendary Items

    Liked the Girdle of Giants legendary affix!

    Runes – I saw in one of the recent developer interviews that Travis thought that it may have been a mistake to have made skill runes and instead they should maybe have been legendary affixes!
    I would prefer them to change the skill system to that as it would lock in our individual builds and make each of us unique again.

    Again finding a Legendary item with a 1:500000 chance to drop that also has say the skill rune affix of ‘Improved Archon’… I would be like Yusss I will own! Or an item like the Grandfather sword that has the Wrath of the Berserker Insanity Skill rune embedded in it!
    It would stop the cookie cutter situation we have now a little bit..
  • #72
    Quote from CheehC

    I like the idea of having different drop rates for some ultimate items.


    I thought it already existed. I found 10 (or more probably) Grandfather and 0 Maximus (they both have the same ilvl and same item type). But maybe it's just RNG.
  • #73
    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from CheehC

    I like the idea of having different drop rates for some ultimate items.


    I thought it already existed. I found 10 (or more probably) Grandfather and 0 Maximus (they both have the same ilvl and same item type). But maybe it's just RNG.


    I thought that it rolls for if it is a legendary item > what piece of item (eg weapon) > what type of weapon (eg 2 handhanded sword) > So say there are 9 items that fit the roll so far , then you have a 1/9 chance to get any of them. I don't know though as Blizzard have not stated exact drop rates anywhere though so I am not confident in my assumption at all haha.
  • #74
    Quote from Slayerviper

    Well and players like Maka would have issues as well I suppose. Maybe just a separate stash for crafting would be an easy fix (I say this loosely).


    Woot, I'm famous!
  • #75
    Most of the ideas from OP are pretty amazing how ever the mf part is just bad tbh. If you take away the mf from paragon levels then one of the main reason going thru the whole grind is gone. If you need to kill 50 elite packs flawless without dying just to reach max. mf how is some1 doing a "quick" 2 or 3 map farmrun feels about it? He feels gimped. He grinds countless hours for 300 mainstats and 200 vit at the end of the day? A fresh lv60 being lucky on crafts could make up for those 300 mainstats and 200 vit way to easy.

    Making paragon levels account wide is a step into the right direction imo but not a 1:1 ratio. Lets say its a 2:1 ratio related to certain paragonlevels f.e.

    Reaching pl20 on one character yields pl10 to any other lv60 character, pl40 gets you to 20, 60 to 30, 80 to 40 and 100 to 50. This way you reward the whole account for something accomplished without taking away the biggest part of grinding to 100 and still have a decent start with a fresh level60. The highest pl on one character per account count towards all other.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #76
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Most of the ideas from OP are pretty amazing how ever the mf part is just bad tbh. If you take away the mf from paragon levels then one of the main reason going thru the whole grind is gone. If you need to kill 50 elite packs flawless without dying just to reach max. mf how is some1 doing a "quick" 2 or 3 map farmrun feels about it? He feels gimped. He grinds countless hours for 300 mainstats and 200 vit at the end of the day? A fresh lv60 being lucky on crafts could make up for those 300 mainstats and 200 vit way to easy.

    Making paragon levels account wide is a step into the right direction imo but not a 1:1 ratio. Lets say its a 2:1 ratio related to certain paragonlevels f.e.

    Reaching pl20 on one character yields pl10 to any other lv60 character, pl40 gets you to 20, 60 to 30, 80 to 40 and 100 to 50. This way you reward the whole account for something accomplished without taking away the biggest part of grinding to 100 and still have a decent start with a fresh level60. The highest pl on one character per account count towards all other.


    I agree the MF suggestion needs work, I kind of know what I'd change if I was going to rewrite the post but I'll leave it be there so we can get some more discussion going. However I think the idea of removing the MF from Paragon levels is good, it's the numbers and the other stuff that needs to be changed. The reason I think it's good is because right now low level characters never find legendary items, this would at least give them the same chance at finding a legendary the same as high levels do.

    It needs work but there have been so many good suggestions in the criticism that I hope Blizzard reads one and they can come up with a solution.
  • #77
    I agree with everything you have said in this post; I especially love your ideas on crafting. I would also like to see int he expansion the expansion of how many players can be in one instance of a game. They could have it that for anyone over the initial cap of I think 4 players per party and max it at 8 or 10 people the difficulty level of that game could increase by like 25%-30% but with this coupled with your drop rate idea could increase the drop rate of the "near impossible items" slightly. So it would be much much harder but the incentive to play with more people becomes viable again.
  • #78
    Haven't posted in these forums for a loooong time but I signed in just to say how amazing this thread is. Kudos!
  • #79
    Yo MrMonstrosity, amazing work. You should apply @ Blizzard!

    http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/careers/posting.html?id=13000AI
  • #80
    Quote from stebo88

    Haven't posted in these forums for a loooong time but I signed in just to say how amazing this thread is. Kudos!


    Same. Great thread, good ideas. But the voice in the back of my head is like, "Dude, this is awesome, but you know Blizzard will never implement it." Such sadness knowing such enthusiasm and good thinking will just go to waste in the end.
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