[Suggestion] Accountwide "Paragonlevels"

  • #41

    I am not sure why you are so opposed to differences of opinion or preferences but any real discussion will only begin when you stop saying things like "why do people think like that?" and then claim they are the reason for everything bad.


    Im not opposed to difference in opinion. Im just really annoyed by people who seem to think that ARPGs are nothing but a 'pick the most efficient way of farming' and thats it. Easy everything face roll party time.,

    Quote from cptKon

    Quote from Catalept

    I don't recall Blizzard talking much about MF gear swapping... IIRC their main argument was that it felt kinda crappy having a load of top-end gear that you never used because your spent most of your time in your MF set, and that by phasing out on-gear MF, players could use their best gear all the time. Which, IMO, is a bloody good point.



    and now u have 500k dps farming machines with max mf and imba dps, and many low dps, poor guys who cant find anything to make mp progression, who cant buy anything and who are screwed up, ye balanced game, same as world - few % of humanity that are reach and multiplies their money and rest poor guys, balance,,, (no im not a poor screwed guy)
    1. i would like to bring back old mf stacking gear, u have decent dps and have stacked some mf, u are rewarded by it.
    2. u have best dps and farm higher mp to get extra loot, u are rewarded by extra item drop ratio and bonus to mf, mby it should be a bit higher as a recompensation of mf on gear that u cant afford on higher mp to be effective
    game cant be to simple, needs some choices, dont make us maindless zombies...

    OT - totally DISAGREE with making accound-wide paragon level, where is fun from leveling other chars?
    Get one to plvl 100 and leave the game cuz no more things to be done...
    imo its: http://tinyurl.com/psvl3em



    See, this guy speaks my language. These people asking for easier everything need to be whipped back in their holes life gophers on a golf course. :D


    Seriously, popping up and trying to ruin ARPGs with thier WoW boogey woogey.
  • #42
    With D3 being a gear-based game I don't think adding more percs to paragon is a good idea. It makes more stats useless on gear and removes even more of the "unique" feel your character has. With D2 you had your primary stats and your skill choices that made your character unique, now all you have to make your character stand out is your paragon level since you can already swap skills around at will.
  • #43
    Quote from 3rdbolt

    With D3 being a gear-based game I don't think adding more percs to paragon is a good idea. It makes more stats useless on gear and removes even more of the "unique" feel your character has. With D2 you had your primary stats and your skill choices that made your character unique, now all you have to make your character stand out is your paragon level since you can already swap skills around at will.


    So you are saying that parangon levels are the only thing to make our character stand out, therefore it should give us as few rewards as possible ?
  • #44
    Quote from 3rdbolt

    With D3 being a gear-based game I don't think adding more percs to paragon is a good idea. It makes more stats useless on gear and removes even more of the "unique" feel your character has. With D2 you had your primary stats and your skill choices that made your character unique, now all you have to make your character stand out is your paragon level since you can already swap skills around at will.


    I agree. Sounds more like people just wanting to dumb down D3 as much as possible.

    They want paragon lvls to give them pick up radius increase, run speed increase etc. I mean p levels already nulls mf/gf but apparently that's not enough.


    Quote from Vulmio


    So you are saying that parangon levels are the only thing to make our character stand out, therefore it should give us as few rewards as possible ?


    I think hes saying that paragon lvls should not continually make other stats null and void. When blizzard decided to remove skill trees they didn't think about the consequences of long term play value and total reliance on items.
  • #45
    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from Vulmio

    So you are saying that parangon levels are the only thing to make our character stand out, therefore it should give us as few rewards as possible ?


    I think hes saying that paragon lvls should not continually make other stats null and void. When blizzard decided to remove skill trees they didn't think about the consequences of long term play value and total reliance on items.


    If we consider parangon power vs gear power, they'd have to make huge buff before we could even start to compare both...
  • #46
    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from Vulmio

    So you are saying that parangon levels are the only thing to make our character stand out, therefore it should give us as few rewards as possible ?


    I think hes saying that paragon lvls should not continually make other stats null and void. When blizzard decided to remove skill trees they didn't think about the consequences of long term play value and total reliance on items.


    If we consider parangon power vs gear power, they'd have to make huge buff before we could even start to compare both...


    If they want to give paragon lvls meaning besides being a Band-Aid for short term thinking they need to add a skill tree. Not add undesirable mods that people consider a burden when selecting items.

    I know, people wanna face roll MP with overpowered skills and stack only the most needed stats. Well, the more they go in the direction' efficiency' instead of 'depth' the more the game will de-evolve.
  • #47
    Actually a skill tree can perfectly exist without the problem of "My skill choices suck, I have to restart my character". It just requires to be able to gain enough levels to get all the skills from the skill tree (like The Secret World's Skill Wheel). Your choices matter but in the (very very) long term you can get every skill so you are not punished for your decisions. Of course it should take a really long time to get every skill or we are back to 1-60 leveling.
  • #48
    Quote from Vulmio

    Actually a skill tree can perfectly exist without the problem of "My skill choices suck, I have to restart my character". It just requires to be able to gain enough levels to get all the skills from the skill tree (like The Secret World's Skill Wheel). Your choices matter but in the (very very) long term you can get every skill so you are not punished for your decisions. Of course it should take a really long time to get every skill or we are back to 1-60 leveling.


    Problem is half the people think they are being punished while the other half realises they are being rewarded.
  • #49
    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from Vulmio

    So you are saying that parangon levels are the only thing to make our character stand out, therefore it should give us as few rewards as possible ?


    I think hes saying that paragon lvls should not continually make other stats null and void. When blizzard decided to remove skill trees they didn't think about the consequences of long term play value and total reliance on items.


    If we consider parangon power vs gear power, they'd have to make huge buff before we could even start to compare both...


    If they want to give paragon lvls meaning besides being a Band-Aid for short term thinking they need to add a skill tree. Not add undesirable mods that people consider a burden when selecting items.

    I know, people wanna face roll MP with overpowered skills and stack only the most needed stats. Well, the more they go in the direction' efficiency' instead of 'depth' the more the game will de-evolve.


    The word you're looking for is devolve =P

    I believe the argument is being lost in translation. You are simply saying that adding skill trees will miraculously create this amazing depth in a game. Do you mean adding PERMANENT skill choices? Or do you really mean just 'skill trees'? Because if it's the latter, then I'm personally confused.

    But, if you mean the former, then I have to disagree with you. I believe to you, you think that (permanent skill choices) + (being forced to re-level characters if you want to make different choices) = longevity. If that's what you think, that's fine, but please realize that's not how everyone views it. Personally for me, it was the hunt for loot that made me play D2 for years on end. And, while I admit it's anecdotal at best, that's how all of my friends felt when I played with them as well.

    Paragon levels and subsequent additions to them (such as account wide changes, ect) are only a 'band aid' to you. To me, it's a brand new system and a step in the right direction. If ANYTHING, I would vote that permanent skill choices and trees were the band aids, to cover up just how shallow D2 really was, as far as BiS items that destroyed anything else in their categories, and the completely redundant and boring combat and farming.

    TLDR; Skill trees and permanent skill choices don't add actual depth to a game. If the only reason you play is you have to re-roll a character because of the choices you made, instead of actually wanting to PLAY the game, then there's something wrong with the game.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #50
    Quote from Bleu42

    TLDR; Skill trees and permanent skill choices don't add actual depth to a game. If the only reason you play is you have to re-roll a character because of the choices you made, instead of actually wanting to PLAY the game, then there's something wrong with the game.


    QFT+1
  • #51
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Bleu42

    TLDR; Skill trees and permanent skill choices don't add actual depth to a game. If the only reason you play is you have to re-roll a character because of the choices you made, instead of actually wanting to PLAY the game, then there's something wrong with the game.


    QFT+1


    Except there are systems allowing "skill trees" (or that kind of skill decisions) that does not force to reroll (and I named one of them in my previous post). It's not like we can only choose between D2 or D3 as game systems... There are plenty of possibilities out there.
  • #52
    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Bleu42

    TLDR; Skill trees and permanent skill choices don't add actual depth to a game. If the only reason you play is you have to re-roll a character because of the choices you made, instead of actually wanting to PLAY the game, then there's something wrong with the game.


    QFT+1


    Except there are systems allowing "skill trees" (or that kind of skill decisions) that does not force to reroll (and I named one of them in my previous post). It's not like we can only choose between D2 or D3 as game systems... There are plenty of possibilities out there.


    You're exactly right. Which leads to my point that if a game is having problems with longevity, it's not the skill system, it's the game. Personally I think D3 is fantastic and will only keep getting better, which is why I pointed out to Vturth the flaw in their argument.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #53
    Quote from Bleu42

    just how shallow D2 really was, as far as BiS items that destroyed anything else in their categories, and the completely redundant and boring combat and farming.



    Quote from Bleu42

    Personally for me, it was the hunt for loot that made me play D2 for years on end.


    :?:
  • #54
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Bleu42

    just how shallow D2 really was, as far as BiS items that destroyed anything else in their categories, and the completely redundant and boring combat and farming.



    Quote from Bleu42

    Personally for me, it was the hunt for loot that made me play D2 for years on end.


    :?:


    Since my youth of playing D2 I've realized how shallow and bad D2's itemization was.

    Doesn't mean I still didn't love to try and find uniques.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #55
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Bleu42

    TLDR; Skill trees and permanent skill choices don't add actual depth to a game. If the only reason you play is you have to re-roll a character because of the choices you made, instead of actually wanting to PLAY the game, then there's something wrong with the game.


    QFT+1


    - 1 for not making any sense.

    So you're say that skill points which allow players to mod their own skills as they see fit and create unique characters does no add any depth.. So removing that choice gives the game more depth?

    BTW, not everyone re-rolls the same characters in D2. But in D3 everyone rolls the same character no matter what.
  • #56
    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Bleu42

    TLDR; Skill trees and permanent skill choices don't add actual depth to a game. If the only reason you play is you have to re-roll a character because of the choices you made, instead of actually wanting to PLAY the game, then there's something wrong with the game.


    QFT+1


    - 1 for not making any sense.

    So you're say that skill points which allow players to mod their own skills as they see fit and create unique characters does no add any depth.. So removing that choice gives the game more depth?

    BTW, not everyone re-rolls the same characters in D2. But in D3 everyone rolls the same character no matter what.


    Um, what im saying is the current system where players can choose their own set of skills and passives, creating 'unique' characters already exists, does what you want, and it does it better than skill trees.

    Listen, its blatantly obvious you have no intentions of listening to others arguments and are set in stone about what you want. I'm tired of wasting my energy arguing the same thing with you over and over.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #57
    Quote from Bleu42

    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from Vulmio

    So you are saying that parangon levels are the only thing to make our character stand out, therefore it should give us as few rewards as possible ?


    I think hes saying that paragon lvls should not continually make other stats null and void. When blizzard decided to remove skill trees they didn't think about the consequences of long term play value and total reliance on items.


    If we consider parangon power vs gear power, they'd have to make huge buff before we could even start to compare both...


    If they want to give paragon lvls meaning besides being a Band-Aid for short term thinking they need to add a skill tree. Not add undesirable mods that people consider a burden when selecting items.

    I know, people wanna face roll MP with overpowered skills and stack only the most needed stats. Well, the more they go in the direction' efficiency' instead of 'depth' the more the game will de-evolve.


    The word you're looking for is devolve =P

    I believe the argument is being lost in translation. You are simply saying that adding skill trees will miraculously create this amazing depth in a game. Do you mean adding PERMANENT skill choices? Or do you really mean just 'skill trees'? Because if it's the latter, then I'm personally confused.

    But, if you mean the former, then I have to disagree with you. I believe to you, you think that (permanent skill choices) + (being forced to re-level characters if you want to make different choices) = longevity. If that's what you think, that's fine, but please realize that's not how everyone views it.


    Skill trees with out permanent choice remove the aspect of building characters in RPGS. While some sort of respect option is ok in some sense. An all out swap anytime you want with no consequence nulls the spirit of RPGs in general. This does hurt the game in a lot of ways. This game caters more to an ADD type of player who wants everything all at once.

    Back in D2, people would be inspired to make new characters. They never felt punished, they never felt forced. I sure as hell never felt forced when I made a conscious choice to build a trapper, or summoner, a werewolf, fire ball sorc etc. This is what made D2 fun.

    My D2 friends list used to be huge. We used to play, research builds, discuss things, test things out. This made it so much more fun. D3, my friends list was dead in a few months.

    In D3, its just so basic. Its as if the whole game was designed to cater to people who didn't enjoy D2 but liked a few parts of it.. Which is why D3 has suffered as much as it has. Its gone about everything that matters the wrong way and continues to do so.

    Saying that people felt punished for playing the game is pretty much bad perception in my books. Because as it stand, I feel punished by the people who keep saying they that they felt punished by simple choices. Sadly, its to bad that Jay Wilson catered to the wrong people and let his WoW gang clean the game up.

    D3 made a lot of bad choices. Choices which the majority of the fans didn't want. Of course anyone left still playing D3 is now the new minority.

    Quote from Bleu42

    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Bleu42

    TLDR; Skill trees and permanent skill choices don't add actual depth to a game. If the only reason you play is you have to re-roll a character because of the choices you made, instead of actually wanting to PLAY the game, then there's something wrong with the game.


    QFT+1


    - 1 for not making any sense.

    So you're say that skill points which allow players to mod their own skills as they see fit and create unique characters does no add any depth.. So removing that choice gives the game more depth?

    BTW, not everyone re-rolls the same characters in D2. But in D3 everyone rolls the same character no matter what.


    Um, what im saying is the current system where players can choose their own set of skills and passives, creating 'unique' characters already exists, does what you want, and it does it better than skill trees.

    Listen, its blatantly obvious you have no intentions of listening to others arguments and are set in stone about what you want. I'm tired of wasting my energy arguing the same thing with you over and over.



    Choosing skills and passives is not the same as building characters. You obviously have no intentions of understanding the difference, so I guess you should be tired by now of not understanding basic concepts.





    .
  • #58
    Quote from Bleu42

    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Bleu42

    TLDR; Skill trees and permanent skill choices don't add actual depth to a game. If the only reason you play is you have to re-roll a character because of the choices you made, instead of actually wanting to PLAY the game, then there's something wrong with the game.


    QFT+1


    - 1 for not making any sense.

    So you're say that skill points which allow players to mod their own skills as they see fit and create unique characters does no add any depth.. So removing that choice gives the game more depth?

    BTW, not everyone re-rolls the same characters in D2. But in D3 everyone rolls the same character no matter what.


    Um, what im saying is the current system where players can choose their own set of skills and passives, creating 'unique' characters already exists, does what you want, and it does it better than skill trees.

    Listen, its blatantly obvious you have no intentions of listening to others arguments and are set in stone about what you want. I'm tired of wasting my energy arguing the same thing with you over and over.


    While you, on the other had, are clearly starting to change your mind on the issue. :facepalmsmile:
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