A Few Ideas: Item Decay, Gear, and Weapon Tuning. Yay or Nay?

  • #41
    Quote from ruksak

    I played Guild Wars 1 (on and off) for 7 years. There wasn't an item sink, per say. Yet, even after seven years, high-demand items had a hard floor, the price was high and remained stable for the duration.

    Epic items should stay epic no matter how many hands they cross. Such a thing will never be a part of Diablo 3.


    So, an item you acquired in year 1 would be worth about the same 6 years later (given that it was really good by the time you found it)? That's hard to believe in a "healthy" game where players search for updates on a daily basis.

    Epic items should stay epic, but in any RPG you also want progression, and at some point every item loses its value. By making items really really rare and epic you can prolong this effect (for example, Thunderfury in WoW was a truely epic legendary item), but eventually everything will flat out. For example, ask yourself if D3's progress is too fast or too slow. Self-found players will probably say too slow, but people who use the AH basically have no progression either because it's too fast (leveling a char to 60: 2 hours, buying equip to reach 200k DPS: 10 minutes, time to next self-found upgrade: about a year or so).

    So in the end, both parties (self-found and AH users) are bored and feel that there's no character progression. Now, as Blizzard already said and we also determined in a survey, you can't take away the AH anymore. And most people in this thread also don't want to "penalize" trading by introducing some sort of item decay. That leaves us only with the option of creating an item sink.

    I have no idea about Guild Wars, but I'm pretty sure there was something else to the game. I really don't believe that any RPG-like game with a healthy community will manage to keep players engaged using the same items for years.
  • #42
    Quote from Bagstone


    So, an item you acquired in year 1 would be worth about the same 6 years later (given that it was really good by the time you found it)?



    Yes.

    In theory, not regarding x-pacs and content patches...yes, items always find a floor. Epic OMFGodly items always have a high floor, and nothing makes that floor drop aside from new content.
  • #43
    Quote from VTurth

    I wasted to much gold on crafting, I finally ended up crafting something worth keeping and stashed it away. Now it just sits there. One day I noticed my friend could use it and forgot it was crafted. So, it just sits there still.

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Uhm....because the BoA recipes have the potential to be better than anything you can ever loot from monsters? Seems pretty obvious to me.


    Quote from Bagstone

    So in the end, both parties (self-found and AH users) are bored and feel that there's no character progression. Now, as Blizzard already said and we also determined in a survey, you can't take away the AH anymore. And most people in this thread also don't want to "penalize" trading by introducing some sort of item decay. That leaves us only with the option of creating an item sink.


    Just a question: how will introducing item sinks help people who like to find their own gear instead of shopping for it?
  • #44
    Quote from VTurth

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Crafting an item gives you a certain feeling of accomplishment. Like "YEAH I MADE THIS!". If crafted items weren't BoA, some rich guys would just craft like hell and flood the market (remember INVIS crazy 13k crafts?).

    However, it was a band-aid to the AH problem. There's no way to argue against that. A quick band-aid until itemization is "fixed" and drops (hopefully) become useful again.

    But I remain skeptical - whatever you can do to improve your character, e.g., running VoA 10 times to find an upgrade, some high-end guy can do 10x faster and 100x times more often. I really have no idea how Blizzard is gonna solve that issue. They already said they don't want to kill trading by making everything BoA, so don't be worried about that. On the other hand, none of their itemization plans so far have hinted on how they want to overcame the "perfect item distribution through the AH".
  • #45
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from VTurth

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Crafting an item gives you a certain feeling of accomplishment. Like "YEAH I MADE THIS!". If crafted items weren't BoA, some rich guys would just craft like hell and flood the market (remember INVIS crazy 13k crafts?).

    However, it was a band-aid to the AH problem. There's no way to argue against that. A quick band-aid until itemization is "fixed" and drops (hopefully) become useful again.

    But I remain skeptical - whatever you can do to improve your character, e.g., running VoA 10 times to find an upgrade, some high-end guy can do 10x faster and 100x times more often. I really have no idea how Blizzard is gonna solve that issue. They already said they don't want to kill trading by making everything BoA, so don't be worried about that. On the other hand, none of their itemization plans so far have hinted on how they want to overcame the "perfect item distribution through the AH".


    I gave ya a +1 for that. I just want to add, again, for emphasis; No-lifers, botters and hardcore players will always get ahead in the rat race. It's just another manifestation of the haves and the have-nots.

    I appreciate any efforts to control such practices from tilting the game askew, but I do not appreciate efforts that interfere with the 'common mans' ability to trade, lend items etc.
  • #46
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Bagstone

    So in the end, both parties (self-found and AH users) are bored and feel that there's no character progression. Now, as Blizzard already said and we also determined in a survey, you can't take away the AH anymore. And most people in this thread also don't want to "penalize" trading by introducing some sort of item decay. That leaves us only with the option of creating an item sink.


    Just a question: how will introducing item sinks help people who like to find their own gear instead of shopping for it?


    Why is the market flooded with good items? Because thanks to the AH, the player base has managed to achieve a "perfect distribution of items". Whatever item is not needed by the rich guys on top of the food chain goes back into the economy and is acquired by the "second level". This goes down to every single player who touches the AH - like a pyramid.

    Or think of it as a volcano, the high-end players sit on top and new items (i.e., lava) comes out of the volcano. In a game without any trading, every player would sit on its own volcano and all mountains would rise on a level directly proportional to everyone's playtime (more or less). But since the item distribution is streamlined due to AH distribution, there is only one volcano. The high-end players sit on top, consume the best items that emerge, but throw all the rest down and the next level of players picks it up - and so on. The base is growing and growing, but the players at the bottom barely feel like they're moving forward; they're just spreading out making the base larger. If Blizzard doesn't do anything about it, the volcano would grow infinitely until the top players end up in space. This is exactly why Blizzard reduced item drop rates already.

    So, one solution is to cut down on trading. The item decay idea by OP is such a thing: when items get traded (i.e., lava falls down), they get worse (i.e., lose density/weight). Eventually, once the lava hits the ground, it's gone, stopping infinite growth. However, we discussed the drawbacks of item decays in this thread... extensively.

    Another solution is an item sink. If the top players decide to use their "second best items" instead of giving it to the people below them, the volcano stops growing. It doesn't matter how this is achieved (upgrade perfect item by enchanting it with materials from a salvaged, "almost perfect item"; selling 1000 Echoing Furies to the volcano gods; whatever you can think of) - the only thing that matters is that not every piece that appears to be "waste" for the high-end players enters the economy.

    How will this affect self-found players?

    Once the current, infinite volcano growth is stopped, Blizzard can turn up drop rates again. They already said that they tweaked drop rates down in order to slow inflation. They said they won't remove the AH, and it's also unlikely that they'll introduce something that penalizes for trading. So their needs to be a positive incentive for the community to stop this ridiculous distribution of items, and I believe an item sink (through crafting, most likely) is the best shot we got.
  • #47
    Quote from maka

    Quote from VTurth

    I wasted to much gold on crafting, I finally ended up crafting something worth keeping and stashed it away. Now it just sits there. One day I noticed my friend could use it and forgot it was crafted. So, it just sits there still.

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Uhm....because the BoA recipes have the potential to be better than anything you can ever loot from monsters? Seems pretty obvious to me.


    Pretty obvious to you maybe. But its far from obvious to me.

    Potential to be better does not mean will be better. Like I said have some decent gear crafted, but most of its been garbage. And what I have left over I don't use, I can't even give it away to friends.

    I don't like being told what I can and can't do with MY stuff. :(
  • #48
    The reason why economy is fucked up is because the AH makes trading too easy. When everyone throws his stuff on the AH and you can undercut each other then items with high drop rate will become worthless pretty fast. While really good/rare items keep increasing in value. This creates a wall where a normal player can never ever get any good items by just playing the game. And on the other hand they can instantly buy full mediocre gear which is already better than anything they can get from drops. So every normal player is stuck with an unrewarding game and only the elitists and AH flippers or botters can enjoy going for gear upgrades regularly.

    With the AH, your items are competing with your entire continent server (americas, europe, asia) so prices drop too fast. While only items that are impossible to get from drops yourself have value and keep increasing in value because of botters. They are being controlled by botters and flippers because no regular player can ever get his hands on something valued unless they won the lottery.

    In D2 economy was fine because:

    - No undercutting. Prices remained stable based upon rarity/drop rate of the item. Trading was based on offers you get rather than prices you set.
    - Compete only with a few other sellers in tradegames. Not the entire fucking continent. Again keeping prices stable.
    - Because trading required you to actually do something and have some social interaction, many people just kept items for alts. Again making prices remain more stable because there was less over-supply. (The same way the HC AH on D3 is more stable because gear goes out of the economy because of deaths --> less supply = less undercutting = more stable prices)
    - Items had less RNG. (uniques didn't have random stats. A shako was always a good drop and had always around the same value)
    - There was no wall between cheap mediocre gear and items you can never afford. There were ways to slowly build up to rare items like high runes. (my tactic was just to farm mephi for shako's/gazes etc. Trade a couple of those for a stormshield or likely valued items. Then trade those for ist runes and eventually building up towards high runes and runewords, just by farming mephi for items that had a decent droprate and thus I wasn't bound to winning the lottery.) Trading that way was actually fun, and part of playing the game. Scanning through some text based AH all day and trying to flip items is boring and feels like a job. So it's not part of playing the game.

    In MMO's an AH works because:

    - continents are divided in different servers so your items are only competing with a small part of your continent. Keeping prices more stable.
    - Items obtained in MMO's come from different places and from different mobs. Also from different content types. Not every player is farming the same type of loot, again reducing the amount of people you are competing with when putting up your farmed items for sale. While in Diablo everyone is farming the same things. So a lot more people are undercutting each other and bringing more and more items in supply.
    - Items don't have that much RNG. Buyers don't need access to items from the entire continent to find what they are looking for. There is enough supply in items just by having 3000-5000 people servers.
    - Because there is no RNG on items, you know what you are looking for and you don't have to specify a bunch of text affixes and numbers. This is less boring and doesn't feel like a job. In MMO's an AH is actually part of the fun the game has to offer.



    The real problem with balancing the AH in D3 is that items have too much RNG. So in order to find any good item through trade, having the AH shared in the entire continent server is somewhat required to ever have BiS items available for trade.

    On the other hand, if those top end items never show up on the AH because there is not enough supply, then people will be happy much faster with the gear they CAN get. Because there are no pages full of insane gear that you can never afford.

    I personally am happy with my 180k dps barb's gear. I can do MP10 without dying too much. I can find plenty legendaries so I don't need better gear. The problem is that the AH has pages full of upgrades that I can never in my entire life afford. And that my friends, becomes a shitty feeling. A feeling that wouldn't have been there if there was no AH there.

    A solution needs to be found to the undercutting problem, and to the fact that there is oversupply.

    A first step would be equipment upgrading at the cost of making it BoA. Blizz is already working on this. Pulls some items out of the economy, which is what we need. But it's not enough.
    A second thing that could be done is my idea of fixing the AH:

    - Remove Buyout so you can no longer be undercut by your entire continent.
    - Add a option to buyers to send a "Fast Trade", When accepted by the seller, the seller will have only 5% AH cut instead of 15% and the trade is completed right away.

    This has a few positive effects:

    - The seller doesn't have to wait 12 hours to get his gold if he gets a fast trade he is happy with.
    - The buyer can still have a nearly instant buy, if his FT offer is a fair deal.
    - Instead of competing with the entire continent when trying to sell something, the competition is now between the buyers who need to come up with a fair deal asap. This keeps prices more stable and fair.
    - AH bots are less effective, because they can no longer get items very cheap by bidding in the last second... Because the deal is in the sellers hands, the seller needs to accept if the price is fair or not. If it's not a top-end item, bots won't bid. And if it's a good wanted item, then there will be FT offers before auction ends, so players can actually compete with bots to get good/fair deals.
    - People can no longer buy entire gear from AH instantly by using buyout buttons, so some people might actually try finding some gear themself first and then go to the AH for the last few pieces.

    Instead of trying to be the lowest seller, and fucking up the economy as a result, the trade system and economy is now in the hands of the buyers, while the final decision about a trade is still in the hands of the sellers. The trade system changes from "Whatever is the lowest price..." to "what do I think is a fair price?"

    What could be considered a con is that the buyers can no longer buy their gear instantly all the time. But that also has positive sides and the other pros definitely outweight the cons imo...

    No-AH mode, preferable in the form of ladders is the best solution I've been able to think of to work alongside these changes to AH's on the other modes.

    Other solutions/suggestions I've heard here and on the official forums all have more cons than pros or only tackle a side effect of the AH and not the root of the problem. Or are just a temporary fix or delay to the economy problem before undercutting catches up again and makes the game feel unrewarding again....


    As for elitist gear suggestion. I don't like it to be tied to the paragon system. I don't want to have to level another character just to have fun with it. Not having my 300% MF/GF and 300main stat / 200 vit is already a big slap in the face...

    I'd rather have item upgrades like they are working on. So you have to spend for example demonic essences to get your gear upgraded. It's the same as grinding for paragon levels. It requires some work to get good gear and you can't instantly buy stuff from the AH. The difference is that now you can do it with your main character and have fun and then equip good gear the moment you ding 60 on an alt. Or you can paragon level your alt, get DE's that way and do the upgrading that way. But the choice is yours. We need MORE motivation to play alt characters. Not less.

    With your suggestion you are forcing people to play a boring alt without paragon stats. You are taking away the ability to equip alt gear that you found with your main char right when you ding 60, just for the sake of removing the ability to buy stuff instantly from AH. That's not good... You are also taking away the joy of finding good item on your main char. Because when found something good you also realize you have to grind another 200 hours to get plevel 70 on that alt as well. That would be a huge slap in the face. We need the game to be more rewarding, not less :)

    /sigh I'm litteraly incapable of making short posts lol
  • #49
    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from maka

    Quote from VTurth

    I wasted to much gold on crafting, I finally ended up crafting something worth keeping and stashed it away. Now it just sits there. One day I noticed my friend could use it and forgot it was crafted. So, it just sits there still.

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Uhm....because the BoA recipes have the potential to be better than anything you can ever loot from monsters? Seems pretty obvious to me.


    Pretty obvious to you maybe. But its far from obvious to me.

    Potential to be better does not mean will be better. Like I said have some decent gear crafted, but most of its been garbage. And what I have left over I don't use, I can't even give it away to friends.

    I don't like being told what I can and can't do with MY stuff. :(


    That's the price we have to pay for uber-powerful recipes. There's no way we'd have these recipes if the product could be sold. They're just too powerful.


    @Bagstone: I get what you're saying, but I just don't see it happening. I guess we'll see (in a loooong time).

    @Stellar: stellar post. +1
  • #50
    A first step would be equipment upgrading at the cost of making it BoA. Blizz is already working on this.

    Interesting, can you post a link to confirm this?
  • #51
    Quote from maka

    That's the price we have to pay for uber-powerful recipes. There's no way we'd have these recipes if the product could be sold. They're just too powerful.


    But its diablo. Nothing should be account bound. Maybe its just me but it shouldn't matter how you get the gear and you should not be punished for crafting it yourself.


    Thing is I have yet to craft anything uber-powerful with those recipes. The best gear I have got was found of purchased of the AH.
  • #52
    Quote from safka

    A first step would be equipment upgrading at the cost of making it BoA. Blizz is already working on this.

    Interesting, can you post a link to confirm this?


    I believe it was in the interview with Archon. Lemme see if I can find it.

    edit: Couldn't find where I originally read it, but it just got confirmed in the full transcript of diablofans interview that they're working on item upgrading and reintroducing the mystic.

    It could ofcourse be implemented in many different ways. for example the mystic enchanting your gear is also a form of "upgrading your gear".

    I guess if they're gonna implement upgrading it's gonna be the mystic. Cause they also already said that the mystic is coming back in the future. They said it again in the diablofans interview aparently cause it's stated in the highlights post.
  • #53
    Quote from Stellar

    A second thing that could be done is my idea of fixing the AH:

    - Remove Buyout so you can no longer be undercut by your entire continent.
    - Add a option to buyers to send a "Fast Trade", When accepted by the seller, the seller will have only 5% AH cut instead of 15% and the trade is completed right away.

    This has a few positive effects:

    - The seller doesn't have to wait 12 hours to get his gold if he gets a fast trade he is happy with.
    - The buyer can still have a nearly instant buy, if his FT offer is a fair deal.
    - Instead of competing with the entire continent when trying to sell something, the competition is now between the buyers who need to come up with a fair deal asap. This keeps prices more stable and fair.
    - AH bots are less effective, because they can no longer get items very cheap by bidding in the last second... Because the deal is in the sellers hands, the seller needs to accept if the price is fair or not. If it's not a top-end item, bots won't bid. And if it's a good wanted item, then there will be FT offers before auction ends, so players can actually compete with bots to get good/fair deals.
    - People can no longer buy entire gear from AH instantly by using buyout buttons, so some people might actually try finding some gear themself first and then go to the AH for the last few pieces.

    Instead of trying to be the lowest seller, and fucking up the economy as a result, the trade system and economy is now in the hands of the buyers, while the final decision about a trade is still in the hands of the sellers. The trade system changes from "Whatever is the lowest price..." to "what do I think is a fair price?"


    This actually sounds like an awesome idea. At first I was like "nah, it doesn't work because the next bid has to be 5% higher anyways" and whatever, but if you think about it, the entire AH interaction would change. There's no point in waiting for the last second to bid on an item, it might be gone by then. I think the incentive needs to be higher, and there needs to be a decaying effect (otherwise the seller will just wait for 1 minute before the auction ends to save the 10% increased AH fee). Like, the earlier you accept a bid, the less AH fees you pay, and the max AH fee should be raised to something like 30% or so.

    It could work and could potentially solve a lot of problems.
  • #54
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Stellar

    A second thing that could be done is my idea of fixing the AH:

    - Remove Buyout so you can no longer be undercut by your entire continent.
    - Add a option to buyers to send a "Fast Trade", When accepted by the seller, the seller will have only 5% AH cut instead of 15% and the trade is completed right away.

    This has a few positive effects:

    - The seller doesn't have to wait 12 hours to get his gold if he gets a fast trade he is happy with.
    - The buyer can still have a nearly instant buy, if his FT offer is a fair deal.
    - Instead of competing with the entire continent when trying to sell something, the competition is now between the buyers who need to come up with a fair deal asap. This keeps prices more stable and fair.
    - AH bots are less effective, because they can no longer get items very cheap by bidding in the last second... Because the deal is in the sellers hands, the seller needs to accept if the price is fair or not. If it's not a top-end item, bots won't bid. And if it's a good wanted item, then there will be FT offers before auction ends, so players can actually compete with bots to get good/fair deals.
    - People can no longer buy entire gear from AH instantly by using buyout buttons, so some people might actually try finding some gear themself first and then go to the AH for the last few pieces.

    Instead of trying to be the lowest seller, and fucking up the economy as a result, the trade system and economy is now in the hands of the buyers, while the final decision about a trade is still in the hands of the sellers. The trade system changes from "Whatever is the lowest price..." to "what do I think is a fair price?"


    This actually sounds like an awesome idea. At first I was like "nah, it doesn't work because the next bid has to be 5% higher anyways" and whatever, but if you think about it, the entire AH interaction would change. There's no point in waiting for the last second to bid on an item, it might be gone by then. I think the incentive needs to be higher, and there needs to be a decaying effect (otherwise the seller will just wait for 1 minute before the auction ends to save the 10% increased AH fee). Like, the earlier you accept a bid, the less AH fees you pay, and the max AH fee should be raised to something like 30% or so.

    It could work and could potentially solve a lot of problems.


    That is indeed a nice addition to my idea :D From buyer perspective I think the incentive is there because you always have the feeling that someone might bid and that the seller might accept the deal. So you try to come up with a offer that sounds fair to you rather than trying to get the item for as cheap as possible :D Because you really want the seller to accept.

    But indeed there needs to be more incentive for the seller to accept. Else the incentive for buyer to come up with good offer is also diminished if they know they will wait for last minute anyway. Then the bots are back in the game as well.

    Really nice idea to make AH cut bigger the longer you wait. I think it's a pretty solid system that way :D However there are also changes needed to the over-supply thingy to make the game better. More things to make gear go out of the trade economy.

    I'm thinking:

    1) more incentive to play alt characters (also multiple of the same class). The more alt characters people have, the more mediocre gear goes out of trade economy.
    2) Reintroduce armor slots on followers. Again making mediocre gear have another use, taking a lot of items out of the economy.
    3) Upgrading gear at the cost of making it BoA, also takes items out of trade economy.
  • #55
    Quote from maka

    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from maka

    Quote from VTurth

    I wasted to much gold on crafting, I finally ended up crafting something worth keeping and stashed it away. Now it just sits there. One day I noticed my friend could use it and forgot it was crafted. So, it just sits there still.

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Uhm....because the BoA recipes have the potential to be better than anything you can ever loot from monsters? Seems pretty obvious to me.


    Pretty obvious to you maybe. But its far from obvious to me.

    Potential to be better does not mean will be better. Like I said have some decent gear crafted, but most of its been garbage. And what I have left over I don't use, I can't even give it away to friends.

    I don't like being told what I can and can't do with MY stuff. :(


    That's the price we have to pay for uber-powerful recipes. There's no way we'd have these recipes if the product could be sold. They're just too powerful.


    @Bagstone: I get what you're saying, but I just don't see it happening. I guess we'll see (in a loooong time).

    @Stellar: stellar post. +1



    So the reason the items have to be bind on account is because the item is to powerful?

    Since everyone can go out and craft as much as they like (or can afford) everyone has the chance to get the uber items at some point, the item is uber but if it was sold from the AH it would still be uber the only diffrence is the way a player gets hold of the item.

    How good or powerful the item is makes no diffrence, just means you get lucky or not and if it's good and you don't need it u can't sell it.
  • #56
    Quote from Game Over

    Quote from maka

    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from maka

    Quote from VTurth

    I wasted to much gold on crafting, I finally ended up crafting something worth keeping and stashed it away. Now it just sits there. One day I noticed my friend could use it and forgot it was crafted. So, it just sits there still.

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Uhm....because the BoA recipes have the potential to be better than anything you can ever loot from monsters? Seems pretty obvious to me.


    Pretty obvious to you maybe. But its far from obvious to me.

    Potential to be better does not mean will be better. Like I said have some decent gear crafted, but most of its been garbage. And what I have left over I don't use, I can't even give it away to friends.

    I don't like being told what I can and can't do with MY stuff. :(


    That's the price we have to pay for uber-powerful recipes. There's no way we'd have these recipes if the product could be sold. They're just too powerful.


    @Bagstone: I get what you're saying, but I just don't see it happening. I guess we'll see (in a loooong time).

    @Stellar: stellar post. +1



    So the reason the items have to be bind on account is because the item is to powerful?

    Since everyone can go out and craft as much as they like (or can afford) everyone has the chance to get the uber items at some point, the item is uber but if it was sold from the AH it would still be uber the only diffrence is the way a player gets hold of the item.

    How good or powerful the item is makes no diffrence, just means you get lucky or not and if it's good and you don't need it u can't sell it.


    Nope. You have to play the game to be able to craft these, due to the Demonic Essence requirement. It's a reaction to the heavy AH use. You could say that their power is a reward for not using the AH to get your gear. If it wasn't BoA, it would defeat that purpose; it would just be another item turned into AH-fodder.
  • #57
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Game Over

    Quote from maka

    Quote from VTurth

    Quote from maka

    Quote from VTurth

    I wasted to much gold on crafting, I finally ended up crafting something worth keeping and stashed it away. Now it just sits there. One day I noticed my friend could use it and forgot it was crafted. So, it just sits there still.

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Uhm....because the BoA recipes have the potential to be better than anything you can ever loot from monsters? Seems pretty obvious to me.


    Pretty obvious to you maybe. But its far from obvious to me.

    Potential to be better does not mean will be better. Like I said have some decent gear crafted, but most of its been garbage. And what I have left over I don't use, I can't even give it away to friends.

    I don't like being told what I can and can't do with MY stuff. :(


    That's the price we have to pay for uber-powerful recipes. There's no way we'd have these recipes if the product could be sold. They're just too powerful.


    @Bagstone: I get what you're saying, but I just don't see it happening. I guess we'll see (in a loooong time).

    @Stellar: stellar post. +1



    So the reason the items have to be bind on account is because the item is to powerful?

    Since everyone can go out and craft as much as they like (or can afford) everyone has the chance to get the uber items at some point, the item is uber but if it was sold from the AH it would still be uber the only diffrence is the way a player gets hold of the item.

    How good or powerful the item is makes no diffrence, just means you get lucky or not and if it's good and you don't need it u can't sell it.


    Nope. You have to play the game to be able to craft these, due to the Demonic Essence requirement. It's a reaction to the heavy AH use. You could say that their power is a reward for not using the AH to get your gear. If it wasn't BoA, it would defeat that purpose; it would just be another item turned into AH-fodder.


    Exactly. It's a reward for actually playing the game. (minus those damn bots!)
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #58
    no... just... no... i want to buy an item that's worthwhile. not some nonsense "decayed" item. diablo 1 was played mostly offline, and wirt was around to sell the good stuff, at random. all this process would do is make shittier and shittier items. i don't need bragging rights to something i find. i need a demand for the item i find, so i can move the item quickly to collect gold to buy something else. i don't flip the auction house, i don't bot. this seems like i'm being punished for wanting to play the game as it was intended. yes, if i find it, i sell it at full stats, true, a flipper may have bought it. but passed my selling it, i don't care what happens to the item. the issue here is, it would effect the items i buy. -1 no no no
    WD - mostly other chars are toilet... my pride and joy ;D http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/SirBoneselot-1182/hero/1672627
  • #59
    Quote from VTurth

    I wasted to much gold on crafting, I finally ended up crafting something worth keeping and stashed it away. Now it just sits there. One day I noticed my friend could use it and forgot it was crafted. So, it just sits there still.

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Craftable items that are potentially BiS pretty much have to be BoA, otherwise they're just another attack-vector for bots. They're also a nod to self-found players. /shrug


    Back on topic, I think item decay is a horrible, horrible idea. It stomps on one of the bright spots in the D3 eco-system, which is gear-trading between friends. Not only that, it won't change that fact that bots generate the highest quantity of the best items, and it won't change what BiS items on the AH will cost, as they're still so stupidly rare that still more efficient to buy them rather than try to farm something better... unless the decay-rate is so punitive, it kills the AH completely.

    I still think some kind of enchanting system would be the best way to take the heat out of the AH. A system that lets you pick a stat-slot to nudge closer to its max value for a price based on how close to maxed out that stat already is but loses all those enchants when it's traded would increase the value of sub-optimal items, be worthless to bots, let players customize their gear, act as a productive gold-sink and help out self-found players.
  • #60
    Quote from Catalept

    Quote from VTurth

    I wasted to much gold on crafting, I finally ended up crafting something worth keeping and stashed it away. Now it just sits there. One day I noticed my friend could use it and forgot it was crafted. So, it just sits there still.

    I don't understand why anything needs to be BOA. :(


    Craftable items that are potentially BiS pretty much have to be BoA, otherwise they're just another attack-vector for bots. They're also a nod to self-found players. /shrug
    .


    You can't really prove that BOA has to exist.. You do know the BEST version of Diablo did not have BOA.

    So, is it so wrong to not want some weird MMO mechanic in D3?

    Quote from Game Over

    Since everyone can go out and craft as much as they like (or can afford) everyone has the chance to get the uber items at some point, the item is uber but if it was sold from the AH it would still be uber the only diffrence is the way a player gets hold of the item.

    How good or powerful the item is makes no diffrence, just means you get lucky or not and if it's good and you don't need it u can't sell it.



    If its BOA then every craftable should be awesome.. But thats not the case.

    I mean, crafting is basically paying gold for a single high stat which can still roll bad stats with it. Its gambling. Yet, we can't trade it because it can potentially be good?

    I hate BOA.... It doesn't belong in diablo.
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