CC immunity and unavoidable monster abilites

  • #141
    Quote from VTurth

    CC kind of existed in D2.

    Who could forget clegs+ Other slow stack+ Decrep + Holy Freeze. And for added salt in the wound : slow missle OR Bone Prison.

    People would have to leave the game sometime just to return to full speed..lol

    You are right, but the first example is probably not working as intended I guess. And considering most organized PvP was on normal, bone prisons were pretty harmless. But in general you are right, there was a little bit of player cc. The difference to D3 cc is just that you never lose full control of your character.

    Quote from Elendiro

    People got spoiled by the inferno ner/offensive rebalance. All they want is to push their dps and steamroll untill they complain that things are too easy.

    I have never complained about how easy Diablo 2 is, in fact I enjoy the fast and easy runs a lot more than the ones in Diablo 3.
  • #142
    Quote from Jamoose

    Yes it does happen to everyone. When your precious WOTB runs out and you did not expect those double elite packs with a ton of CC affixes, you will get fucked.

    When you run out of discipline and you can't vault anymore. When your crappy teleport is on cooldown. You will get fucked. don't try to ridicule my argument with false logic. People should be able to get cc'ed i did not say that they shouldn't. All im saying is that the way certain CC effects are handled right now in the game, is quite broken. When you get vortexed, triple frozen and jailed... Yeepey!

    If you dont have WOTB, you are fucked. Period.


    And don't tell me that i have to use more cc breaking skills because that's even more broken. What, if i want to play the game i have to waste two skill slots on crappy skills just because? If we had more skill slots i might have agreed with this idea but clearly 6 skill slots is not enough. So I'm not going to use mirror image just so i can break CC effects, this is broken imo.
    Im not sure if you are trolling or being plain stupid. Once again "anti cc skills" are there for a reason. Hence when the game was lunched blizzard cleary said: You might have to change skills to deal with certain affix combos. Its up to the player if he skips a pack or change the spec(losing nv stacks).

    Knockback:

    - Monk: ToF/TC or Dashing Strike
    - DH: Vault(if needed)
    - Wiz: Teleport even in archon form
    - WD: Spirit Walk

    Jailer:

    Same as knockback

    Frozen:

    Either avoid it or:

    Monk: Serenity
    DH: Smokescreen
    Wiz: Teleport again
    WD: Spirit Walk and/or use Spirit Vessel and let it proc

    Nightmarish:

    10sec cd in between fears. No big deal but like frozen pretty easy to counter.

    Waller:

    Monk = fuk´d
    DH = fuk´d
    Wiz. Just teleport thru
    WD: Just use Sprit Walk and run thru.

    Oh and even the mighty barb is fuk´d too since wotb didnt help at all dealing with walls. :P


    If you dont like to use 1 or 2 skills/passives bcuz they are no fun FOR YOU stop complain about unfair affix combos. Deal with it, play a different class or quit the game. Its up to you.

    Or to put it another way:
    The self-absorbed gamer with an over-developed sense of entitlement, says, "this game doesn't hand me everything I want on a silver platter, so I demand you change the game!"
    QFT.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #143
    You can't teleport out of freeze...

    Also, I can't believe people complain about nightmarish...just avoid getting hit...or deal with it.
    Make your peace...Quickly!
  • #144
    Gergenheimer and Elendiro: Thanks for two more posts that completely, absolutely, 100% miss the point of this thread. Maybe you can create another thread to post your random "L2P noobs" stuff around? That'd be great.

    @Shinna: So, wizard's answer to CC is Teleport. Sweet, because I always have Teleport in any of my specs. Unfortunately, it has 15s cooldown. And we're not talking about a pack that has 1 CC ability but overly annoying packs that come with 2-3 CC abilities.

    (@Elendiro: You can't TP out of Frozen, but you can see it and TP away in time. Well, sometimes, if there's a free spot on the ground nearby.)

    I guess I'm leaving this thread. Some of us were interested in a serious discussion about game mechanics that are designed a bit unfortunate, but the last couple of dozen posts really made me sad as some players felt the need to throw some "L2P" stuff in here instead of reading what this thread is all about. Sigh.
  • #145
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Im not sure if you are trolling or being plain stupid. Once again "anti cc skills" are there for a reason. Hence when the game was lunched blizzard cleary said: You might have to change skills to deal with certain affix combos. Its up to the player if he skips a pack or change the spec(losing nv stacks).

    Pretty dumb reason to justify this, isn't it? If they'd said you must respec for each single elite pack, would you accept this either? Just because they told beforehand doesn't make this better design...
  • #146
    I personally like the CC as is. Its the only thing really left in the game that offers some sort of challenge and Im far from a diablo 3 god. Ive just played enough and learned how to counter things. Ive worked hard to balance DPS w/EHP on my characters and frankly Im pretty feaking happy about it. Im far from Instakilling but Im also far from InstaDying also. I mean the skills Elites can have are just bad anyway or been nerfed into uselessness. Avenger/Vampiric/Shield/Electric..thats like a wasted skill slot on an Elite. CC is the only unknown left in the game and thats what I enjoy about it..the unknown.
  • #147
    Quote from Efrye

    Quote from Shinna1989

    Im not sure if you are trolling or being plain stupid. Once again "anti cc skills" are there for a reason. Hence when the game was lunched blizzard cleary said: You might have to change skills to deal with certain affix combos. Its up to the player if he skips a pack or change the spec(losing nv stacks).

    Pretty dumb reason to justify this, isn't it? If they'd said you must respec for each single elite pack, would you accept this either? Just because they told beforehand doesn't make this better design...

    Pretty much... The problem is that people fail to realize what a bad design is. When you are forced to have that one or two skills in every build then it's crappy design. If there were more options to break out of cc and not just one or two then i would not consider it broken.

    I'm not sure if calling me stupid is the right thing to do especially when you think that games are "lunched". Get a clue dude, you are defending something that sucks just because you made up enough reasons to convince yourself that you are right. It is bad game design, there is no question about it.

    I will re-iterate what I've said in a slightly different manner; If CC effects were timed in a way that your abilities would allow you to improvise under any given situation, i wouldn't have said it's bad design. But when all you got is one miserable skill, and you already used it, forcing you to wait 10 seconds or more, while elites are spamming frozen orbs... You simply have no way to deal with that and you are forced to just sit there, watch your character die. Go to a cave in act 2 and tell me if you can dodge frozen orbs that easily. Not to mention that more than one elite group could be after you at a time...

    If they would remove the CD on all of the movement / CC breaking skills and make them rely solely on your resource giving you true freedom and and boosting your ability to dodge certain CC effects, only then i would say that it's not bad game design. Or they could buff the reduction time on CC effects from items as others have mentioned but that would be quite boring as opposed to the first part of this paragraph.

    Not sure if you are plain stupid or just plain stupid. Maybe a troll oh i don't know.

  • #148
    Quote from Bagstone

    Gergenheimer and Elendiro: Thanks for two more posts that completely, absolutely, 100% miss the point of this thread. Maybe you can create another thread to post your random "L2P noobs" stuff around? That'd be great.

    @Shinna: So, wizard's answer to CC is Teleport. Sweet, because I always have Teleport in any of my specs. Unfortunately, it has 15s cooldown. And we're not talking about a pack that has 1 CC ability but overly annoying packs that come with 2-3 CC abilities.

    (@Elendiro: You can't TP out of Frozen, but you can see it and TP away in time. Well, sometimes, if there's a free spot on the ground nearby.)

    I guess I'm leaving this thread. Some of us were interested in a serious discussion about game mechanics that are designed a bit unfortunate, but the last couple of dozen posts really made me sad as some players felt the need to throw some "L2P" stuff in here instead of reading what this thread is all about. Sigh.

    ashame, you and i share similiar viewpoints.

    also, spirit walk doesn't allow you to walk through walls Shinna.
    WD - mostly other chars are toilet... my pride and joy ;D http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/SirBoneselot-1182/hero/1672627
  • #149
    Quote from Jamoose

    Quote from Efrye

    Quote from Shinna1989

    Im not sure if you are trolling or being plain stupid. Once again "anti cc skills" are there for a reason. Hence when the game was lunched blizzard cleary said: You might have to change skills to deal with certain affix combos. Its up to the player if he skips a pack or change the spec(losing nv stacks).

    Pretty dumb reason to justify this, isn't it? If they'd said you must respec for each single elite pack, would you accept this either? Just because they told beforehand doesn't make this better design...

    Pretty much... The problem is that people fail to realize what a bad design is. When you are forced to have that one or two skills in every build then it's crappy design. If there were more options to break out of cc and not just one or two then i would not consider it broken.

    I'm not sure if calling me stupid is the right thing to do especially when you think that games are "lunched". Get a clue dude, you are defending something that sucks just because you made up enough reasons to convince yourself that you are right. It is bad game design, there is no question about it.

    I will re-iterate what I've said in a slightly different manner; If CC effects were timed in a way that your abilities would allow you to improvise under any given situation, i wouldn't have said it's bad design. But when all you got is one miserable skill, and you already used it, forcing you to wait 10 seconds or more, while elites are spamming frozen orbs... You simply have no way to deal with that and you are forced to just sit there, watch your character die. Go to a cave in act 2 and tell me if you can dodge frozen orbs that easily. Not to mention that more than one elite group could be after you at a time...

    If they would remove the CD on all of the movement / CC breaking skills and make them rely solely on your resource giving you true freedom and and boosting your ability to dodge certain CC effects, only then i would say that it's not bad game design. Or they could buff the reduction time on CC effects from items as others have mentioned but that would be quite boring as opposed to the first part of this paragraph.

    Not sure if you are plain stupid or just plain stupid. Maybe a troll oh i don't know.

    more or less this.... this is what i've been saying, just not as clearly... for those of you who feel you're ok and too 1337 to get hit by frozen and have no trouble with elites, try this: stop posting here, and thank you in advance. clearly enough people have issues with some affix rolls, so this is a bit of a problem. a big problem? no. a problem nonetheless? yes. that being said, Jamoose, every version of trolls i've come across are stupid, so i believe you're correct
    WD - mostly other chars are toilet... my pride and joy ;D http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/SirBoneselot-1182/hero/1672627
  • #150
    Quote from Bagstone

    Gergenheimer and Elendiro: Thanks for two more posts that completely, absolutely, 100% miss the point of this thread. Maybe you can create another thread to post your random "L2P noobs" stuff around? That'd be great.

    @Shinna: So, wizard's answer to CC is Teleport. Sweet, because I always have Teleport in any of my specs. Unfortunately, it has 15s cooldown. And we're not talking about a pack that has 1 CC ability but overly annoying packs that come with 2-3 CC abilities.

    (@Elendiro: You can't TP out of Frozen, but you can see it and TP away in time. Well, sometimes, if there's a free spot on the ground nearby.)

    I guess I'm leaving this thread. Some of us were interested in a serious discussion about game mechanics that are designed a bit unfortunate, but the last couple of dozen posts really made me sad as some players felt the need to throw some "L2P" stuff in here instead of reading what this thread is all about. Sigh.

    I didn't miss the point of the thread - I was speaking the truth and the truth is: claiming that a game mechanic is "wrong" or "broken" is an OPINION. Plenty of people play this game without experiencing the chronic problems you and others are describing, because we have adapted our builds/gear/play style to manage the spikes in difficulty that occur from certain combinations of monster affixes. If adapting your builds and/or play style is unacceptable to you, then play on a lower difficulty or stop playing the game - but don't ask the developers to "fix" something that not every player agrees is "broken". From what I've read on here, the people who claim that the CC mechanics are broken show no willingness to adapt to the game, but rather think the game should be changed to suit them.
  • #151
    Quote from Gergenheimer
    From what I've read on here, the people who claim that the CC mechanics are broken show no willingness to adapt to the game, but rather think the game should be changed to suit them.

    I actually want it to adapt more to its predecessors and the corresponding gameplay.
  • #152
    Quote from Gergenheimer

    Quote from Bagstone

    Gergenheimer and Elendiro: Thanks for two more posts that completely, absolutely, 100% miss the point of this thread. Maybe you can create another thread to post your random "L2P noobs" stuff around? That'd be great.

    @Shinna: So, wizard's answer to CC is Teleport. Sweet, because I always have Teleport in any of my specs. Unfortunately, it has 15s cooldown. And we're not talking about a pack that has 1 CC ability but overly annoying packs that come with 2-3 CC abilities.

    (@Elendiro: You can't TP out of Frozen, but you can see it and TP away in time. Well, sometimes, if there's a free spot on the ground nearby.)

    I guess I'm leaving this thread. Some of us were interested in a serious discussion about game mechanics that are designed a bit unfortunate, but the last couple of dozen posts really made me sad as some players felt the need to throw some "L2P" stuff in here instead of reading what this thread is all about. Sigh.

    I didn't miss the point of the thread - I was speaking the truth and the truth is: claiming that a game mechanic is "wrong" or "broken" is an OPINION. Plenty of people play this game without experiencing the chronic problems you and others are describing, because we have adapted our builds/gear/play style to manage the spikes in difficulty that occur from certain combinations of monster affixes. If adapting your builds and/or play style is unacceptable to you, then play on a lower difficulty or stop playing the game - but don't ask the developers to "fix" something that not every player agrees is "broken". From what I've read on here, the people who claim that the CC mechanics are broken show no willingness to adapt to the game, but rather think the game should be changed to suit them.

    This post sounded good til you mentioned gear / playstyle / build... I understand you feel everything is fine... but it just isn't... I want to play the game... not stand around unable to move... the game isn't hard, mp10 isn't hard.... elites aren't hard, they're retarded, and some ccs can be retardedly spammed.
    WD - mostly other chars are toilet... my pride and joy ;D http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/SirBoneselot-1182/hero/1672627
  • #153
    Quote from Ashy_Larry

    This post sounded good til you mentioned gear / playstyle / build... I understand you feel everything is fine... but it just isn't... I want to play the game... not stand around unable to move... the game isn't hard, mp10 isn't hard.... elites aren't hard, they're retarded, and some ccs can be retardedly spammed.
    In theory the wd can pull out alot of cc himself. In trade of the devs granted not much cc immunity for wds. That those "builds" arent realy viable as your bread and butter build is pretty obvious. Its time for a revemp of the wd tbh and get it more in line with f.e. the dh.

    In regards of walls. Im not sure if spirit vessel proc´d or i realy used spirit walk but im 100% i went thru a wall with my wd. If im wrong my bad. :)

    Im not sure how many wizzards not using crit mass. So for the none archon with teleport there is no real cd on it. It resets way to fast so you could use it pretty much every like 2 or 3 sec. As an archon its up to the wiz. Getting the dmg rune or the teleport. If you are going for more dmg then deal with not havin teleport inside archonform. Since with 1.07
    Critical Mass now affects the cooldowns of Archon: Teleport
    was put into the game.

    If you call it "bad class balance" im mostly with you guys. Calling it bad game design isnt simply the truth since at least 3 outta 5 classes can deal with cc pretty good if they are willing to put 1 or 2 skills on their bar or using a passive.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #154
    I really don't understand why people want this game to be a piece of cake. So much complaining. Just for the form, how many people in this thread play HC? Seems like it's SC cuddle bears asking for more nerfing to elites. I play HC and feel the game quite boring not having enough of that adrenaline rush from my screen flashing red.

    I am all-in with the fact that they should rework some abilities/runes so that it helps dealing with certain affixes. As it stands now, you got 1-2 abilities per class helping you deal with pretty much all affixes. Perma WOTB is broken imo (and yes i do play a barb as i play all 5 classes in HC). You can literally be perma immuned to all CC affixes except Waller. WW barbs are also immune to some of the CC when they are not in God mode (vortex). They should remove CC immunity as far as i am concerned when in WOTB mode.

    Some ideas...

    A skill like mirror image for wizard gets you out of jailer right now. Maybe make a rune effect that helps you get out of frozen too.
    Timestop could make you immune to something like vortex.
    Iron skin could provide some cc defense for barb.
    Dh could have a vault rune giving them the ability to get out of waller because let's admit it, waller is big trouble for Dh.

    The answer must not come from more nerfing of this game. They should make this game even more difficult imo. The answer must come from bringing more diversity to the table. First of all for skills but also by adding new affixes to elites. You would probably see those irritating affixes combo less often. I would like to see aura affixes that would increase trash mobs damage, give them special abilities, etc. Make those WTF useless affixes like avenger mean something.

    Also, i have seen no complain whatsoever yet about unique monsters. Don't you guys think that those monsters are a real joke? I mean, did anybody died once vs those? Did anyone have a leg drop from them? They want to encourage people to farm every single area of this game well they should work on giving those uniques a shot at giving you something special. My idea, farming them could give a slight chance for a specific essence. Mixing chosen essences together could provide something great like runewords did back in D2.

    About unavoidable monster abilities, i only consider jailer and nightmarish being part of that group because vortex is avoidable as mentionned. Personnally, jailer and nightmarish never caused me too much problems, i can't even remember one death being partly because of those affixes.
  • #155
    Quote from 1up_Mush

    I really don't understand why people want this game to be a piece of cake. So much complaining. Just for the form, how many people in this thread play HC? Seems like it's SC cuddle bears asking for more nerfing to elites. I play HC and feel the game quite boring not having enough of that adrenaline rush from my screen flashing red.

    Because the affixes are no challenge, just boring/dumb. It's just no fun to be in a narrow dungeon with spammed arcane sentries or frozen bombs. I have no problem with bringing those packs down, it's just no fun, but skipping is also not an option in a small cave. It will just follow you all the time and annoy you further.
  • #156
    Quote from 1up_Mush


    A skill like mirror image for wizard gets you out of jailer right now. Maybe make a rune effect that helps you get out of frozen too.


    huh... it already removes frozen...
    Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
  • #157
    Quote from Elendiro

    You can't teleport out of freeze...

    Also, I can't believe people complain about nightmarish...just avoid getting hit...or deal with it.
    Quote from Elendiro

    You can't teleport out of freeze...

    Also, I can't believe people complain about nightmarish...just avoid getting hit...or deal with it.
    You can't avoid getting hit by Electrified, Plagued or Fast when it's paired by Nightmarish :P just sayin'...

    But I feel like Nightmarish is ok with the current internal cooldown. Even perma-Knockback has a tactical elemtent to it (not getting surrounded).
  • #158
    what is archon have to do with CC immunity topic ?
    archon doesn't give u cc immunity
    barb is only class that is able to be permanently CC immune and that is why is WOTB so op
    (archon is strong ability but is no match for WOTB)
  • #159
    Quote from gurg0

    what is archon have to do with CC immunity topic ?
    archon doesn't give u cc immunity
    It doesnt give you immunity but some utility(teleport) to deal with most forms of cc pretty well.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
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