CC immunity and unavoidable monster abilites

  • #61
    Quote from maka

    @toyen: What you're saying basically boils down to "Play only on an MP where you can roflstomp elites". Sorry, man, but that's boring. I like being at risk of dying.



    This is the problem with the current state of D3. To much of a gap between DPS and to much MP lvls.


    Some people play higher MP to ROLFSTOMP more drops everywhere...And some do it for the challenge.
  • #62
    Quote from Darksol

    I feel you on that Efrye, it seems people like to boast of their "manliness" on threads where it is of no importance.
    I understand where the OP is coming from as well.

    My problem with the situation is the inconsitancies within the game between Nephalem and demons. If i get hit with a "knockback" not only am i throw backwards(sometimes into danger) i also am slowed terribly(most of the time in danger). I use a Windforce almost exclusively on my Demon Hunter and have never noticed the monsters whom i've knocked back "slow" 60% for 2-3 seconds. So therein lies an inconsistancy there.

    It seems there are those who view themselves as "better" than everyone else which can run parallel to rich people thinking their better than poor people. "Your gear is specced poorly" are cheap shots thrown at a the majority of players by those lucky enough to have found something valuable or those who have been lucky in obtaining "godly" gear. Ive played over 1000 hours as well but have yet to find an item worth over 100 million gold. I bet someone like that would tell me that that is "my fault." lol....

    Someone here has missed the point entirely which is the rate at which CC skills are spammed by monsters.
    "Kallizk"

    Has went ahead and told you that if you die in an MP, you're just not supposed to be there. The joke is on him, however, because even with godly gear you can die in any MP. Even 0. So should someone who got screwed by affixes go back to Hell difficulty? You said you use teleport because you dont want to die? If you dont use teleport, you die? Following your logic, you should just lower the MP because you are clearly not ready for it.

    "You are not forced into using it, but if u want to clear higher mp's with shitty gear u must..."
    --That sentence defeats itself because if you want to clear higher MPS you ARE forced into it, so how can you not be forced into it, but force into it?

    "You are not forced into using it, but if u want to clear higher mp's with shitty gear u must..."
    AND
    "but i still use teleport in mp10 even with 1k resists cause i do not want to die"

    ----Hmm, this person has no problems using his Wizard and using teleport to get out of sticky situations, you told ashy larry you prefer challenges and he likes things to be easy. Funny. Then why are you still using teleport in mp10? Dont you like a challenge or do you use teleport to get out of stick situations and make these things easy?

    "the game as it is right now has no challenge left for players geared like me"

    Damn, so we should go ahead and gear the game for "players like you"? Wow, the 1% of people who were lucky enogh to survive mp10 inferno and look down on everyone else? Lets gear it for the 1%! Screw everyone else!

    "some ppl can't specc/gear/pay attention to stuff in the floor..."
    Can you please explain to me how to spot Knockback, Jailer, Nightmare on the floor?


    All i read here is some jealous guy who can't do mp10 without dying... not even sure if u are not trolling.
    Edit: suppose you are not a troll and are making your point,
    i'll try to make it simple for you:

    You are not supposed to go into higher mps until u farmed enough in lower mps, and no, you can't die with godly gear on mp0, literally impossible for me to die there unless i afk.

    I use teleport because i do not like to die, it's not because i die alot, completely different, and not using teleport would not be a reason for me to tune down mp, since it offers little challenge already.

    Sorry that i am lucky to belong in the 1% as you put it, but i'm sure that's what everyone strives for in this game, the closest to perfect gear possible... i see ppl complaining here with 500k EHP, my barb has 1,8M EHP, 2,5M vs elites and i can just afk on him in lower mps and he still does not die, and with little to no effort he does survive in mp10, he has shitty dps and i don't care much about him, but the point is that i spent 20m on him MAX, most of the ppl complaining have less than 500k EHP so obviously u should be using cc removal skills.
    And i don't need to spot knockback or jailer or nightmarish cause a pack with those powers can hardly do any dmg, anyone who dies from auto attacks clearly needs more EHP...

    Sorry if you interpreted me as someone who thinks he is better, that is not the case, i was just lucky with some drops and i play alot of time, when you get to a good gear level and the game starts to be boring because everything is too easy, come back to me. ;)
    Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
  • #63
    There are items reducing cc duration. If cc is a problem, that affix should be buffed (like multiply it's effect by 5). This way, it would be a new interesting affix. If, even with this, there is too much unavoidable damage, use defensive stats. Even more usefull affixes now !

    But no, people just want main stat/ias/socket/crit ! Good itemisation = more damage !!! And after that they complain about the itemisation patch, while all they want is the affix : "kill X more monsters per second".
  • #64
    Quote from Vulmio

    There are items reducing cc duration. If cc is a problem, that affix should be buffed (like multiply it's effect by 5). This way, it would be a new interesting affix. If, even with this, there is too much unavoidable damage, use defensive stats. Even more usefull affixes now !

    But no, people just want main stat/ias/socket/crit ! Good itemisation = more damage !!! And after that they complain about the itemisation patch, while all they want is the affix : "kill X more monsters per second".


    I stacked Crowd control reduction on my monk and I got up to around 35% and tested it for pvp. It wasn't very noticable and the reduction suffers from deminishing returns like most other defensive stats.
    Make your peace...Quickly!
  • #65
    Quote from Vulmio

    There are items reducing cc duration. If cc is a problem, that affix should be buffed (like multiply it's effect by 5). This way, it would be a new interesting affix. If, even with this, there is too much unavoidable damage, use defensive stats. Even more usefull affixes now !

    But no, people just want main stat/ias/socket/crit ! Good itemisation = more damage !!! And after that they complain about the itemisation patch, while all they want is the affix : "kill X more monsters per second".


    I just don't understand how intelligently using hard counters while playing on an appropriate MP (it's not appropriate difficulty if the average elite pack takes 2 minutes to kill) is so offensive to some. I have slowly increased the difficulty I play at (MP3 pre-1.0.8 to MP6/7 post-1.0/8) and I've yet to find a monster - aside from the aforementioned staggered Frozen guys - where I felt I was being unfairly CCd or put in a position where CC was the reason I couldn't win a fight.

    I understand that I very well may be the exception to the rule, but I also understand that I'm not the greatest player in the world. If I can do it then most people can do it.

    Maybe it'd help me understand the problem if I saw videos of people "being CCd 90% of the time" or "running around for 13 minutes killing a monster." I've never experienced either and it's very difficult to understand just how much of that is complete exaggeration and how much of it is reality.

    Perhaps some friendly tips about specs and playstyles would solve the problem better than nerfing the game. Educating the playerbase is never a bad thing.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #66
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Vulmio

    There are items reducing cc duration. If cc is a problem, that affix should be buffed (like multiply it's effect by 5). This way, it would be a new interesting affix. If, even with this, there is too much unavoidable damage, use defensive stats. Even more usefull affixes now !

    But no, people just want main stat/ias/socket/crit ! Good itemisation = more damage !!! And after that they complain about the itemisation patch, while all they want is the affix : "kill X more monsters per second".


    I just don't understand how intelligently using hard counters while playing on an appropriate MP (it's not appropriate difficulty if the average elite pack takes 2 minutes to kill) is so offensive to some. I have slowly increased the difficulty I play at (MP3 pre-1.0.8 to MP6/7 post-1.0/8) and I've yet to find a monster - aside from the aforementioned staggered Frozen guys - where I felt I was being unfairly CCd or put in a position where CC was the reason I couldn't win a fight.

    I understand that I very well may be the exception to the rule, but I also understand that I'm not the greatest player in the world. If I can do it then most people can do it.

    Maybe it'd help me understand the problem if I saw videos of people "being CCd 90% of the time" or "running around for 13 minutes killing a monster." I've never experienced either and it's very difficult to understand just how much of that is complete exaggeration and how much of it is reality.

    Perhaps some friendly tips about specs and playstyles would solve the problem better than nerfing the game. Educating the playerbase is never a bad thing.


    An example would be any build not a melee character which requires you to stand near an enemy, of which that enemy is evasive. Occultists, spear guys, spewers in act 1 just to name a few. Get a shitty affix roll, and don't take the easy route and play a barb / monk or CMWW wiz and fight these guys. You'll have a. Better understanding
    WD - mostly other chars are toilet... my pride and joy ;D http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/SirBoneselot-1182/hero/1672627
  • #67
    Quote from Kallizk

    All i read here is some jealous guy who can't do mp10 without dying... not even sure if u are not trolling.

    Pot.
    Kettle.
    Black.
  • #68
    Quote from Ashy_Larry

    An example would be any build not a melee character which requires you to stand near an enemy, of which that enemy is evasive. Occultists, spear guys, spewers in act 1 just to name a few. Get a shitty affix roll, and don't take the easy route and play a barb / monk or CMWW wiz and fight these guys. You'll have a. Better understanding


    I already said I played a WD from day 1. Please don't accuse me of what amounts to taking the easy road.

    A Zombie Bears WD versus Occultists is challenging - but it's not because of the monster affixes, it's because they don't stand the fuck still. It has nothing to do with CC at all. You give me any Occultist with champion-level HPs and they're not simple to kill.

    I'm not talking about one type of monsters here. I'm talking about in general. Many of the "fleeing" monsters need their fleeing tuned down a bit, I totally agree. But that has to do specifically with that innate ability those monsters posess and NOT the CC affixes that champions/rares roll.

    In fact, the worst affix Occultists can get for a WD is easily SHIELDING or EXTRA HEALTH and not the CC affixes. For monsters that can already reduce the damage they take, both of those make them so much more difficult. I never fought an Extra Health Occultist where I didn't OOM. I never remember thinking "FUCK! This Occultist has Jailer!" however.

    You have to address the problem at hand. Adding fleeing monsters to the discussion as to why people fight monsters for "13 minutes" is obviously changing the landscape by adding another dimension. Of course fleeing monsters take longer to kill. I'm talking about the AVERAGE elite pack and not about specific sub-types of monsters. Like I said, if fleeing monsters are a problem (and they are to many specs) then they should address fleeing.

    Fleeing and CC, while overlapping on some monsters, are generally two different subjects.

    Get a Zombie Bears (or Cloud of Bats) WD, go find an Occultist that has Mortar, Molten, Desecrator, and Plagued and they're still going to be more difficult (and take longer to kill) than the average elite by a good deal.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #69
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Ashy_Larry

    An example would be any build not a melee character which requires you to stand near an enemy, of which that enemy is evasive. Occultists, spear guys, spewers in act 1 just to name a few. Get a shitty affix roll, and don't take the easy route and play a barb / monk or CMWW wiz and fight these guys. You'll have a. Better understanding


    I already said I played a WD from day 1. Please don't accuse me of what amounts to taking the easy road.

    A Zombie Bears WD versus Occultists is challenging - but it's not because of the monster affixes, it's because they don't stand the fuck still. It has nothing to do with CC at all. You give me any Occultist with champion-level HPs and they're not simple to kill.

    I'm not talking about one type of monsters here. I'm talking about in general. Many of the "fleeing" monsters need their fleeing tuned down a bit, I totally agree. But that has to do specifically with that innate ability those monsters posess and NOT the CC affixes that champions/rares roll.

    In fact, the worst affix Occultists can get for a WD is easily SHIELDING or EXTRA HEALTH and not the CC affixes. For monsters that can already reduce the damage they take, both of those make them so much more difficult. I never fought an Extra Health Occultist where I didn't OOM. I never remember thinking "FUCK! This Occultist has Jailer!" however.

    You have to address the problem at hand. Adding fleeing monsters to the discussion as to why people fight monsters for "13 minutes" is obviously changing the landscape by adding another dimension. Of course fleeing monsters take longer to kill. I'm talking about the AVERAGE elite pack and not about specific sub-types of monsters. Like I said, if fleeing monsters are a problem (and they are to many specs) then they should address fleeing.

    Fleeing and CC, while overlapping on some monsters, are generally two different subjects.

    Get a Zombie Bears (or Cloud of Bats) WD, go find an Occultist that has Mortar, Molten, Desecrator, and Plagued and they're still going to be more difficult (and take longer to kill) than the average elite by a good deal.


    my apologies if you interpereted that as my saying you play the easy characters, that was a general term. however, elites are elites, regardless if they flee, or if they have a natural knockback, or reduce the damage they take. the right combo blows with anything, and that's my point.

    the reason i use fleeing as an example, is because you're under the impression that the 13 minutes to kill a guy was an exaggeration. i suppose, in a way, it is; however, the length of time it takes to kill said creatures is substantially longer than up in your face guys. as a fellow WD from day 1, i understand where you're coming from, and that's what i was basing that original statement off of(13 minute elite fights). most elites melt on MP10 for me, but sometimes there are those pricks that are frozen, knockback, arcane, jailer. that's a shitty combo for firebats. any way you slice it, there are some affix rolls with any type of monsters that blow, it's those cases which sway me in the direction of a small cooldown on affix abilities. i don't suggest a nerf other than having them take an extra second or two to cast. which in the long run, isn't much of a nerf, nor would it completely change the dynamic of the game
    WD - mostly other chars are toilet... my pride and joy ;D http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/SirBoneselot-1182/hero/1672627
  • #70
    Kallizk -

    Oh my lord! Look who's taking shots without knowing a single thing about me!(wait, isnt that trolling?) Thank you for making it simple for me. It probably wasnt hard for you.

    I have great gear. I play mp10 all day. I prefer mp7-8 due to the time it takes to do runs. I have a wiz, barb and DH all of which can handle mp10 with ease and a death or two. All of which have over 215k dps. DH is 325k with steady aim. So i guess i don't have to go get better gear and come back to talk to you, i can do that right now.

    "literally impossible for me to die there unless i afk."
    I read that like its possible. Anyone else say that confirms that he's saying its possible to die with godly gear?

    I never said you were in the 1%, so don't flatter yourself. All i see is someone trying to push the "spec your gear" point on a thread where its not part of the topic so i had to throw in my .02.

    "And i don't need to spot knockback or jailer or nightmarish cause a pack with those powers can hardly do any dmg, anyone who dies from auto attacks clearly needs more EHP..."
    You cannot spot those skills. Thats what i was trying to say. You're telling people to watch the floor for knockback and jailer when its not possible because knockback is proc'd on attack and jailer is a skill. Nobody is dying from jailer.

    People have legitimate issues with their characters and come here to discuss the topic, they don't expect to be met with the same ol bullshit of "go fix Ur Gear n00b". Some people like to not be stuck using the same damn skill that everyone else uses. The point at which your skills dont matter anymore means that you have reached the pinnacle of "gear-dom". You may have done it, but the majority of people(who have other things to do in life besides sink thousands of hours into a video game) have trouble and look here to discuss the issues.

    The issue wasnt MP, it wasnt gear, it was being stuck in CC. If you missed that point, please refer to the OP and read it before posting on a thread. Ill link it and...eh emm...."Make it simple for you"

    The problem is that some of the CC is unavoidable and can easily result in death. Elite/champ skills like frozen, arcane, plagued or desecrater are up to the player to avoid. Whereas jailer, vortex, nightmarish and knockback can never be avoided with player skill or awareness. They happen, and you're stuck with it.

    As a slight disclaimer, I'm aware you can vault/leap/spirit walk etc. out of jailer and use damage reducing cooldowns during nightmare, but that's not the point and I'll get to that later. It's the fact, you can't avoid them through skill like you would do the arcane dance to the Mission Impossible theme.

    The fact there are certain enemy skills that are not player avoidable is part of the reason skills like WotB or Archon are so heavily used


    I would also like to add to the original OPs statement by saying "Whereas jailer, vortex, nightmarish and knockback can never be avoided with player skill or awareness OR GEAR!

    I feel as if the monsters have insufficient cool down. I like the fact that they made reflect damage pop up and down, that allows people to actually kill them now without stacking insane LoH and LS. I dont understand how one pack of monsters can layer an entire area of the map with 12 arcane orbs, tens of frozen blasts and plague. Not to mention the slow-down on knockback(specially when paired with vortex) sometims can be infuriating to people (!) who are even playing on MP0 in inferno. If i have to wait two minutes to click WoTB, why is vortex able to be casted every 2-3 seconds(sometimes by an entire elitepack or pack of minions). They suck you in, slow you down, knock you back into damaging or very often unavoidable burst damage and you die. That's not up to MP, that's not up to gear, thats all up to skills.

    I am very happy to see Elendiro post his experience with CC reduction. In his actual experience - even if you add up all the CC on gear - that has everything your previous gear had on it PLUS CC(which is probably 2-3x more expensive) - you still are only taking 1 second off of 3-4 seconds of CC that these elites hit you with. *read - CC on gear doesn't really matter.

    As i said, i think an adaquate cooldown correction would suffice instead of nerfing WoTB and Archon.
  • #71
    Quote from Laevus

    I'll post a fair warning here that reading this may slightly mar your Diablo 3 experience, as it has mine. I read a post by Grimuku on the official forums a while back now, when a potential nerf to permanent WotB or Archon was considered. Since I've read that post, encountering these issues has annoyed me more each time I die to them.

    The suggestion was that these skills are not the issue, but the mechanics that force people to feel they need them. For the moment, forget about any damage or defense boost. The topic is CC immunity.

    A apologise for not being able to provide a link to Grimuku's original post, I searched but couldn't find it. I'll paraphrase the main points I remember, as since playing self found I've noticed myself getting increasingly more irritated by the same things.

    The problem is that some of the CC is unavoidable and can easily result in death. Elite/champ skills like frozen, arcane, plagued or desecrater are up to the player to avoid. Whereas jailer, vortex, nightmarish and knockback can never be avoided with player skill or awareness. They happen, and you're stuck with it.

    As a slight disclaimer, I'm aware you can vault/leap/spirit walk etc. out of jailer and use damage reducing cooldowns during nightmare, but that's not the point and I'll get to that later. It's the fact, you can't avoid them through skill like you would do the arcane dance to the Mission Impossible theme.

    The fact there are certain enemy skills that are not player avoidable is part of the reason skills like WotB or Archon are so heavily used. Even if it's not, you're still forced to use a skill like vault/leap/spirit walk to avoid what you can or pick a damage reducing cooldown. Often, the cooldowns on these abilities is also far too long compared to how often the monsters can fire the abilities that cause so much grief. It's even worse when something like vortex pulls you back into an arcane maze with frozen that you had just escaped and you die. Infuriating doesn't put it strong enough.

    Grimuku came up with the suggestion that skills like jailer should have a graphic on the floor for several seconds before trapping anyone still in it. Same with vortex, a delay of a few seconds with a graphical warning and then activate. It gives the player a chance.

    I mention this now because I've been playing self found a lot recently. My gear isn't fantastic and I'm currently farming Inferno to build it up. I don't have the luxury of choosing my gear, so no character has base dps over 70k or resists over 450. Few of them even have base run speed of 12%, let alone higher. I know these are my own personal restrictions, but the unavoidable monster abilities are making the game harder for me characters than it should be.

    There's no player skill involved with it, it's about luck and overgearing unless you pick a few particular skills. With only 6 skill slots, picking (barb example) Ignore pain and leap just to deal with these situations I have no control over is restricting the builds I have on offer.

    I echo Grimuku's call for a change to these monster skills so that it reflects more on the player to avoid them rather than relying on gear and skills to just put up with it and try to survive.

    I've not seen any posts mirroring Grimuku's thoughts (and now my own) on this forum, and though I'd open it up for discussion.

    Note: Just noticed there's a blue poster called Grimiku on the official forums. I'd like to point out that I remember the post was in green text, by a foum MVP. Might have the name wrong, which would explain why I can't find the post :(

    Edit: It seems I got my wires crossed. The original post was referring to the constant uptime of WotB and Archon, but WotB is the only one with CC immunity. The original thread was in response to the problem of those skills being up all the time not being an issue and Blizzard contradicting themselves with statements. At one time they said it will be great when players are finally able to be geared enough for perm-Archon, then another (later) post they say that having perma-Archon was never intended and needs to be fixed.

    While some of the information in my post is inaccurate (blame dodgy memory and lack of sleep) I'll leave it unedited. The main point still stands; there are strong unavoidable monster abilities and I think they should be changed.



    You should use rend with bloodlust, you'll heal when cc'd :pirate:
  • #72
    Quote from Darksol

    I would also like to add to the original OPs statement by saying "Whereas jailer, vortex, nightmarish and knockback can never be avoided with player skill or awareness OR GEAR!



    I agree that these skills cant be avoided but they can be mitigated. IMHO thats the whole point of these skills. It forces the player to make choices with gear/skills/play. I love the unknown of these skills. They happen without warning and can make the pucker hole tighten up especially in Hardcore. Like has been said and I completely agree with is you need to have balance in your character. You need to balance DPS with EHP and based on that decide on what MP you play on. NONE of those skills will greatly effect a player who has balanced his character out properly and are running a proper MP. The question is what is proper? I feel its the point at which dying annoys you. If dying so much annoys you you arent ready and that isnt the proper MP for you. Im sorry but if those skills give you trouble there is a reason they give you trouble. Is it because you are to glass cannon? is it because you picked runes that maximise DPS to much or is it because you maximized EHP to much and cant kill something before they lay an abnormal amount of plaque/Jails/Nightmare etc or are you trying to push how high an MP you can actually run without having serious trouble.

    I think this is shown nicely in Hardcore. You dont get second chances to see if what you did was right. I had a character die actually from a Vortex into a minion pack. I didnt die because of the vortex, I died because I pushed my MP to high for the equipment/skills I had at my disposal. Believe me I learned from that sad mistake and now have a character at 60 and currently plvling on Inferno MP0. Nothing special but If I were to try MP1 that same could happen again and I would most definately die.
  • #73
    GangusKahn, did you even read his post?

    It's got nothing to do with dying. It's got nothing to do with MP. The point is these abilities are unavoidable and spammable. Whether you die or not, they can make you take forever to kill a pack. It's not fun, and it's not difficult. It's just bloody annoying.
    And may the odds be ever in your favour.
    Emmo#2406
  • #74
    Jesus Christ, why do so many people take this conversation into "noob, play in lower MP" territory? It's not about dying! It's about annoyance! Like fighting a pack with Electrify + Nightmarish: it's incredibly annoying! Just get it f*cking straight!

    EDIT: @Emmo: THANK YOU!
  • #75
    Quote from maka

    Jesus Christ, why do so many people take this conversation into "noob, play in lower MP" territory? It's not about dying! It's about annoyance! Like fighting a pack with Electrify + Nightmarish: it's incredibly annoying! Just get it f*cking straight!


    I've fought TONS of Electrified + Nightmarish monsters where I've never been feared, though, and I don't use pets to absorb the charged bolts. In fact, I seriously can't remember the last time I was feared more than twice on an elite pack in MP6. I'd seriously like to see what some videos of what you are doing that results in this severe frustration.

    In fact, I've had much more frustration from Knockback + Arcane Enchanted than anything else and even that is pretty mild compared to how frustrating it is to fight ANY mob that flees.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #76
    Agreed with the above two posts (emmo and maka). It has nothing to do with MP. It has everything to do with game design. Everything the elites do should be interactive, engaging, and fun. Not just automatic, stale, and annoying. Deaths or not, it's just unintuitive and bland.
  • #77
    Quote from maka

    Jesus Christ, why do so many people take this conversation into "noob, play in lower MP" territory? It's not about dying! It's about annoyance! Like fighting a pack with Electrify + Nightmarish: it's incredibly annoying! Just get it f*cking straight!

    EDIT: @Emmo: THANK YOU!


    Again proper MP/Skills/Gear/Playstyle and none of these affixes are an issue or an annoyance. If it takes to freaking long to kill something its a problem on your end not the pack.

    To your example above Nightmare+Electrify.

    On my monk I have Cyclone Strike. I get nightmared-when effect wears off-I Cyclone Strike Elite back to me..time to kill..not really an issue. I CHOOSE not to chase elites so I use CS but I do give up nice high DPS skills like Exploding Palm. Electrify-non issue on any pack my resistances take care of that.

    On my barb-I have leap-I get nightmared-effect wears off-I leap back to elite.

    Like I said, its about Gear/Skill/Playstyle.

    If it annoys you choose a level at which it doesnt annoy you...aka you can kill them before they annoy you. It has nothing to do with "Noob play lower mp" it has everything with noob play at a level that doesnt annoy you.
  • #78
    I agree that the more that they make all of the affixes (with reason - avenger, horde, etc. don't count) all avoidable mechanics based off skill the game would become even more engaging.

    As middle ground I think if they were to take out some of the unavoidable mechanics and make them avoidable they should then make it so that mobs, from Normal to Inferno, roll an extra affix.
  • #79
    Quote from GangusKahn

    Quote from maka

    Jesus Christ, why do so many people take this conversation into "noob, play in lower MP" territory? It's not about dying! It's about annoyance! Like fighting a pack with Electrify + Nightmarish: it's incredibly annoying! Just get it f*cking straight!

    EDIT: @Emmo: THANK YOU!


    Again proper MP/Skills/Gear/Playstyle and none of these affixes are an issue or an annoyance. If it takes to freaking long to kill something its a problem on your end not the pack.

    To your example above Nightmare+Electrify.

    On my monk I have Cyclone Strike. I get nightmared-when effect wears off-I Cyclone Strike Elite back to me..time to kill..not really an issue. I CHOOSE not to chase elites so I use CS but I do give up nice high DPS skills like Exploding Palm. Electrify-non issue on any pack my resistances take care of that.

    On my barb-I have leap-I get nightmared-effect wears off-I leap back to elite.

    Like I said, its about Gear/Skill/Playstyle.

    If it annoys you choose a level at which it doesnt annoy you...aka you can kill them before they annoy you. It has nothing to do with "Noob play lower mp" it has everything with noob play at a level that doesnt annoy you.


    I think it's unfair to assume the "level that it annoys you" is due to the wrong difficulty level. You are confusing difficulty with game design. You can be mowing the MP down like nobody's business for a solid hour with no deaths, and then some unavoidable thing happens that is out of your control and you get annoyed and/or die. That's not good game design, and has nothing to do with difficulty.

    Deaths can happen because you made a tactical error or an error in judgement and those happen and those are fine. But when you get jailed, frozen, jailed, frozen chained with a desecrator on top of you that's just silly. You couldn't dodge the first jailed and now you're dead with no control. That's just bad design and it can just happen to you when you've been playing that MP just fine with no deaths for a solid week.

    Like I said in my previous post, my wiz can take MP7+ but I can still die to these annoyances in MP3 if the wrong unavoidable affixes come into play. It's silly.
  • #80
    Quote from GangusKahn

    Like I said, its about Gear/Skill/Playstyle.

    If it annoys you choose a level at which it doesnt annoy you...aka you can kill them before they annoy you. It has nothing to do with "Noob play lower mp" it has everything with noob play at a level that doesnt annoy you.


    Holy shit, please go back and read the first three pages. Your posts have absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

    We're not talking about glass canons go rampage on MP10. We're talking about careful players, equipped with defense abilities to the teeth, and super hardcore gaming skills, who are unable to do anything because certain CC effects do not allow you to take any action (and since there's no DR on monster CC you can be unable to show off your great gaming skill for almost the entire duration of a fight). If you don't get this, read the earlier posts in this thread again. Thanks.
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