[suggestion] radical reduction of AH influence

  • #41
    My 2 cents...
    The AH provides a mechanism to trade in an easy way. Is A LOT better than trade chat/ a trade window. Most games these days have AH systems (but not a RMAH).
    The RMAH is also good to solve the issue that occurred in D2 (and other games) where 3rd party sites would spam chat channels/games and possibly rip players off. Real money purchases would still happen no matter if the D3 RMAH existed or not.

    I think some have a problem with how easily the auction houses enable players to get godly gear.
    It is funny though in some ways that the ELITE players talk about efficiency all the time but don’t like the AH even though it is more efficient to farm currently (bar Exp)..

    I do agree that players should be rewarded more for playing the game and not the AH though.

    At the moment there are a few options:
    1. Remove Auction Houses
      • Not a good idea as they are needed to solve the other problems that occur in games without them

    • Have a BOA model
      • Allows players to get better gear playing than from using the AH/RMAH - Is also away to have the AH stay intact
      • Have a different drop rate for BOA items (new type of rarity introduced maybe)
    • Have a Top Tier Gear Sink
      • A BOA model is a form of a Gear Sink
      • Having a reason to salvage Top Teir Gear
        1. It used to be for Brimstones (long ago).
        2. Idea - Maybe salvaging a Tal Rasha Chest so that you get a ‘Tal Rasha’ Jewel that is used to socket an item. The better the perfection of the item, the better the Jewel salvaged will be.
    • Cosmetic item rewards for selling good items to a new vendor.

    • Gear that levels up
      • Items that are self-found can grow in power (levelled up). The more you play the better your gear will become. If traded items lose levelling potential
    TLDR:
    I think all I am trying to say is that there are more elegant solutions that can be implemented than removing the AH’s (which were required to solve different issues of previous/other games)
  • #42
    Quote from zimira

    There is nothing wrong with the AH, people who still claim that are delusional.

    The AH is nothing but a trading platform. If you are not happy with itemisation or drop rates or your drop luck or whatever, then complain about those, not about the AH.


    To me the OP didn't want to solve some AH problem, but wanted to address the lack of item sinks. However making items BoA on trade would only slow down the item inflation, how much is very hard to know since we don't know how big part of the items on AH are resells of items that players have found/bought upgrades to and how many are "fresh unused" items.

    Right now the game only has item sinks for the low quality items, vending and salvaging. To really make a dent in the item inflation players would need to have reason to destroy the top quality items too.


    BOE and BOA also has the problem of completely wiping out demand for mid tiers.

    This means that because it's going to be so costly for a marginal upgrade (due to the fact that once you acquire an item it can't be resold for money to finance your next purchase) people will skip mid-tier gear altogether.

    It'll also bring about a greater demand for high end gears and RMAH usage.

    On high end item sinks.

    Some Asian MMORPG's have solved that problem via costly upgrades (i.e. adding a 7th stat to the equipment) at a risk of lowering the equipment's stat quality or completely destroying the equipment altogether.

    Not sure if Blizzard would want that, but it would serve as a very efficient high end item sink.
  • #43
    Quote from Elendiro

    I think just making things BoE created more hurdles and problems than it solves.


    You are 275% right on that. It's completely against the spirit of the Diablo franchise (and even ARPGs in general). The devs are absolutely aware of this and I'm confident that they will be taking this strongly into account when going forward. I think the 1.0.7 crafting stuff was really just a stopgap thing to address self-found playstyle as well as to provide another, semi-viable, moneysink and not an indication that BoA is here to stay.

    They definitely want people trading because that was a huge part of D2 online. They also want everyone who fires up the game to feel that they "have a chance" without trading (among friends or strangers).

    They're not going to achieve that by going on some kind of anti-flipping crusade, though. Or any means that dictates that people who want to trade gold for items cannot do so. D2 managed to appease both traders and self-found people despite the clusterfuck of duping. I have the absolute utmost confidence that they can do the same with D3, at least enough so that we all feel like they're listening to us and doing their best.

    The first step, though, is changing the itemization (and drop rates). We cannot possibly assess the rest of the situation without seeing first-hand the repercussions of those changes.
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  • #44
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Elendiro

    I think just making things BoE created more hurdles and problems than it solves.


    You are 275% right on that. It's completely against the spirit of the Diablo franchise (and even ARPGs in general). The devs are absolutely aware of this and I'm confident that they will be taking this strongly inot account when going forward. I think the 1.0.7 crafting stuff was really just a stopgap thing to address self-found playstyle as well as to provide another, semi-viable, moneysink and not an indication that BoA is here to stay.

    They definitely want people trading because that was a huge part of D2 online. They also want everyone who fires up the game to feel that they "have a chance" without trading (among friends or strangers).

    They're not going to achieve that by going on some kind of anti-flipping crusade, though. Or any means that dictates that people who want to trade gold for items cannot do so. D2 managed to appease both traders and self-found people despite the clusterfuck of duping. I have the absolute utmost confidence that they can do the same with D3, at least enough so that we all feel like they're listening to us and doing their best.

    The first step, though, is changing the itemization (and drop rates). We cannot possibly assess the rest of the situation without seeing first-hand the repercussions of those changes.


    Great response. This is what I've been trying to say but couldn't find the right words. +1
  • #45
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Elendiro

    I think just making things BoE created more hurdles and problems than it solves.


    You are 275% right on that. It's completely against the spirit of the Diablo franchise (and even ARPGs in general). The devs are absolutely aware of this and I'm confident that they will be taking this strongly into account when going forward.
    [...]
    They definitely want people trading because that was a huge part of D2 online.


    A BoA system wouldn't prevent you from trading at all. You could find stuff and trade it with others, with help of the AH or without it. It would only take away two -imo needless- aspects:
    a)recycling your old stuff (Is that so important to you? Never seemed to be a problem for me in WoW.)
    b)buy stuff only to resell it: That's clearly nowhere near the spirit of an action rpg, do we agree? Not that it is against it, either, but it doesn't have anything at all to do with monster slaying.
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #46
    Quote from Twoflower

    So you think that the vast majority who wants to keep the AH should be forced out of it just so you can have your dropchances tweaked a few % when you play selffound ?


    I never said that.
    What I said was: balance the drop quantity/quality around self-found. Keep the AH.
  • #47
    Quote from maka

    balance the drop quantity/quality around self-found. Keep the AH.


    It would totally screw over the economy and people who use the AH would be so overpowered that they can sleep trough the game. Now that is of course not your concern, playing selffound and all. But I fear it would lead to a balance around where d2 was, and that is really not the game I want.
  • #48
    Quote from Solmyr77

    It would only take away two -imo needless- aspects:
    a)recycling your old stuff (Is that so important to you? Never seemed to be a problem for me in WoW.)
    b)buy stuff only to resell it: That's clearly nowhere near the spirit of an action rpg, do we agree? Not that it is against it, either, but it doesn't have anything at all to do with monster slaying.


    1 : Wow is a totally different game and the BoE concept was in that game from the very start.

    I like to be able to resell my stuff cause that way your accumulated value trough your play time keeps increasing. You may have it in the form of currency or items, but your wealth increases. If you cannot resell items and buy something for nearly all your gold, you are back at zero. Let's say you wanna switch chars and sell your barb gear to equip your wizard. With your proposition we can not do that.

    2 : People who are sniping good deals help balancing the market, It's a part of the market as you can see in any other market anywhere on the world trough all of history. It is very near the spirit of open markets, and the AH is just that put inside a arpg.
  • #49
    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from maka

    balance the drop quantity/quality around self-found. Keep the AH.


    It would totally screw over the economy and people who use the AH would be so overpowered that they can sleep trough the game. Now that is of course not your concern, playing selffound and all. But I fear it would lead to a balance around where d2 was, and that is really not the game I want.


    I would wish for a separate sf-mode (like hc) with improved drop rates. Don't know, if that would be my primary playing ground, but it would make for a welcome change, starting all new and on your own.
    I agree with you, that higher drop rates in the regular ah-sc mode would not be good.

    I don't think, the balance in D2 was bad, though. If you played truly legitimate, the difficulty was fine. Only those losers with their wannabe "legit" JahIthBer and BerMalBerIst etc. had a too easy time. But they took away their own fun, so well.

    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from Solmyr77

    It would only take away two -imo needless- aspects:
    a)recycling your old stuff (Is that so important to you? Never seemed to be a problem for me in WoW.)
    b)buy stuff only to resell it: That's clearly nowhere near the spirit of an action rpg, do we agree? Not that it is against it, either, but it doesn't have anything at all to do with monster slaying.


    1 : Wow is a totally different game and the BoE concept was in that game from the very start.

    I like to be able to resell my stuff cause that way your accumulated value trough your play time keeps increasing. You may have it in the form of currency or items, but your wealth increases. If you cannot resell items and buy something for nearly all your gold, you are back at zero. Let's say you wanna switch chars and sell your barb gear to equip your wizard. With your proposition we can not do that.

    2 : People who are sniping good deals help balancing the market, It's a part of the market as you can see in any other market anywhere on the world trough all of history. It is very near the spirit of open markets, and the AH is just that put inside a arpg.


    1: Yes, so?
    The char switch is a decent argument, but I don't think that justifies a no-bind system. I consider it failed. WoW's system was better.

    2: It's tolerable as a niche, but not as the be all end all main aspect of an arpg. In my opinion, that is.
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #50
    Quote from CheehC

    My 2 cents...
    The AH provides a mechanism to trade in an easy way. Is A LOT better than trade chat/ a trade window. Most games these days have AH systems (but not a RMAH).
    The RMAH is also good to solve the issue that occurred in D2 (and other games) where 3rd party sites would spam chat channels/games and possibly rip players off. Real money purchases would still happen no matter if the D3 RMAH existed or not.

    I think some have a problem with how easily the auction houses enable players to get godly gear.
    It is funny though in some ways that the ELITE players talk about efficiency all the time but don’t like the AH even though it is more efficient to farm currently (bar Exp)..

    I do agree that players should be rewarded more for playing the game and not the AH though.

    At the moment there are a few options:
    1. Remove Auction Houses
      • Not a good idea as they are needed to solve the other problems that occur in games without them

    • Have a BOA model
      • Allows players to get better gear playing than from using the AH/RMAH - Is also away to have the AH stay intact
      • Have a different drop rate for BOA items (new type of rarity introduced maybe)
    • Have a Top Tier Gear Sink
      • A BOA model is a form of a Gear Sink
      • Having a reason to salvage Top Teir Gear
        1. It used to be for Brimstones (long ago).
        2. Idea - Maybe salvaging a Tal Rasha Chest so that you get a ‘Tal Rasha’ Jewel that is used to socket an item. The better the perfection of the item, the better the Jewel salvaged will be.
    • Cosmetic item rewards for selling good items to a new vendor.

    • Gear that levels up
      • Items that are self-found can grow in power (levelled up). The more you play the better your gear will become. If traded items lose levelling potential
    TLDR:
    I think all I am trying to say is that there are more elegant solutions that can be implemented than removing the AH’s (which were required to solve different issues of previous/other games)


    Good to see someone laying out the options, the problem with the AH comes down to 3 individual problems which synergiestically create an ever greater problem.

    1.The supply of items increases over time which drives down their prices.
    2. Its easier to get upgrades through the auction house than through farming.
    3. Farming is dissatisfying because you never find upgrades.(the motivation for going self-found)

    From these there emerge sets of broad strategies which could be used to solve these problems.

    1. Decrease the item supply

    eg. provide better and more attractive item sinks (the expected reward of these item sinks must be equal or greater than the expected reward from using the auction house)

    A ladder counts as an item sink

    2.Limit the efficacy of the auction house/make trading less appealing/make item hunting more appealing..

    E.G make it longer to execute a trade, Limit the amount of items that can be purchased/sold, increase the tax applied to AH items

    3. Make finding/acquiring upgrades easier

    Increase drop-rates etc.

    Personally i favour more and better item sinks as the best solution to the auction house problem. Anything which gets players destroying items is going to be good for the game. There's no point in making items easier that will only exacerbate the problem unless accompanied by corresponding AH controls/nerfs.

    I dont actually think a ladder would be as good in D3 as it was in D2 the design decisions have lead to D3 losing its Account based strategy and systems such as paragon are really designed for longterm play. also creating a new character in D3 is just not as fun since you can already experiment however you like within that class. Finally there not so many low level sets and legendaries so getting from normal to inferno is not nearly as fun D3 is an ALL about inferno atm at least.(prays for more low level sets etc.
  • #51
    Quote from Sagathiest

    2.Limit the efficacy of the auction house/make trading less appealing/make item hunting more appealing..

    E.G make it longer to execute a trade, Limit the amount of items that can be purchased/sold, increase the tax applied to AH items


    There is an other option for this : "Whenever you put an item for sale at the AH (or trade it), all it's stats are reduced by X% (X% could be 10% for example). If the same seller relists the item, the stats are not reduced again, but they will be if someone else sells the item after buying it." Obviously it would only work for stats that can be divided (not sockets for example).

    For example, I find this awesome +100 str blue ring. I list it at the AH. It becomes a +90 str ring. No one buys it. I put it again at the AH. It is still a +90 str ring. Someone buy that +90 str ring. Now he can use it and if he sells it, it will become a +81 str ring, etc...
  • #52
    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from Sagathiest

    2.Limit the efficacy of the auction house/make trading less appealing/make item hunting more appealing..

    E.G make it longer to execute a trade, Limit the amount of items that can be purchased/sold, increase the tax applied to AH items


    There is an other option for this : "Whenever you put an item for sale at the AH (or trade it), all it's stats are reduced by X% (X% could be 10% for example). If the same seller relists the item, the stats are not reduced again, but they will be if someone else sells the item after buying it." Obviously it would only work for stats that can be divided (not sockets for example).

    For example, I find this awesome +100 str blue ring. I list it at the AH. It becomes a +90 str ring. No one buys it. I put it again at the AH. It is still a +90 str ring. Someone buy that +90 str ring. Now he can use it and if he sells it, it will become a +81 str ring, etc...


    This is a frequently suggested idea however this is also unfair. Why should an item become less valuable just because it is traded? When I buy items and then find upgrades I hope to resell for close to what I'm paying for it. The auction house is a valid trading platform and those who choose to use it should not punished with the inability to resell gear. Sure put a nice little warning that says you will be this items second owner and your stats will decreased upon relisting, I don't know about others but I'm instantly skipping that item. It's honestly hurts the value just as much as a weapon that says "Inflicts 100 poison damage to player" for every strike or something.

    I continue to reply to this thread because these suggestions to decrease AH influence do nothing but hurt players who choose to use the auction house and most times have no effects on self found players. Making items boa, decay etc has no effect on a self found player so these ideas can easily be suggested without realizing the consequences. However what does a self found player care, they don't face any of these consequences.

    Like it or not there is an Auction House, and it is a valid form of trading. Yes the AH has an influence on prices, yet again if you are self found what does it matter to you what the prices of items are, you aren't trading them. I simply fail to understand why these suggestions are made that impose consequences to AH users however none to self found. Itemization changes should benefit EVERYONE. That's why we should wait for them because it will likely benefit all play styles and punish nobody.

    Come to think of it, I don't blame blizzard so much anymore after reading the forums the last few weeks. Since May 2012 the ever so elite community of superior intelligence who knows all the fixes that need to made haven't come with single way to properly address the influence of the auction house. So now that Blizzard says changes won't be made to after Blizzcon, maybe that's a good thing. I'd like them now, but I'd rather it done be right so I can be playing this game 5 years from now. Rather then be done in August and I'm done with this game by Blizzcon.
  • #53
    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from maka

    balance the drop quantity/quality around self-found. Keep the AH.


    It would totally screw over the economy and people who use the AH would be so overpowered that they can sleep trough the game.


    Would that not be your choice? You could choose: to be overpowered and sleep through the game, or NOT to be overpowered and sleep through the game.
  • #54
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from maka

    balance the drop quantity/quality around self-found. Keep the AH.


    It would totally screw over the economy and people who use the AH would be so overpowered that they can sleep trough the game.


    Would that not be your choice? You could choose: to be overpowered and sleep through the game, or NOT to be overpowered and sleep through the game.


    Makes sense actually. If they balance drop rates assuming there is no AH, and then just keep the AH the way it is. And that's been my feeling on flipping. Sure you can flip, and get 5b in one night and be able to slaughter MP10. Yet what's the fun if you have no future upgrades that are priced under 20 billion??
  • #55
    Quote from Serpenth

    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from Sagathiest

    2.Limit the efficacy of the auction house/make trading less appealing/make item hunting more appealing..

    E.G make it longer to execute a trade, Limit the amount of items that can be purchased/sold, increase the tax applied to AH items


    There is an other option for this : "Whenever you put an item for sale at the AH (or trade it), all it's stats are reduced by X% (X% could be 10% for example). If the same seller relists the item, the stats are not reduced again, but they will be if someone else sells the item after buying it." Obviously it would only work for stats that can be divided (not sockets for example).

    For example, I find this awesome +100 str blue ring. I list it at the AH. It becomes a +90 str ring. No one buys it. I put it again at the AH. It is still a +90 str ring. Someone buy that +90 str ring. Now he can use it and if he sells it, it will become a +81 str ring, etc...


    This is a frequently suggested idea however this is also unfair. Why should an item become less valuable just because it is traded? When I buy items and then find upgrades I hope to resell for close to what I'm paying for it. The auction house is a valid trading platform and those who choose to use it should not punished with the inability to resell gear. Sure put a nice little warning that says you will be this items second owner and your stats will decreased upon relisting, I don't know about others but I'm instantly skipping that item. It's honestly hurts the value just as much as a weapon that says "Inflicts 100 poison damage to player" for every strike or something.


    I don't know if you understood correctly (my english isn't that great, so I probably don't explain my idea very well), but it would apply to every item you see at the AH (the stats you see at the AH would be the nerfed stats). Of course it will not satisfy players whow want the AH to remain the same as it is today. No suggestion will ever satisfy them. This was a suggestion for players wanting a compromise.

    There is an other option, much more complicated : leave all the items and the AH as they are and introduce an alternate path of progression (not from items or loot), just as (or more) powerfull (or interesting) as the stats/properties given by the stats of a whole set of equipment. This way items and the AH would only give half of the power (or interest) of a character and it wouldn't be such a problem anymore.
  • #56
    I understood it correctly which is why I stated it is unfair. As I've said, the Auction House is a valid form of trading and there is no reason players should be punished for using. I respect those who don't use it whether it be only playing self found or only trading with players via chat channels and forums.

    From what I'm gathering from your reply is that there are people who simply believe the Auction House is a problem because it exists and not because of its functionality or consequences. That's also fine however it's irreversible at this point. Diablo III is going to have a functional Auction House for the rest of its existence.
  • #57
    Quote from Solmyr77

    a)recycling your old stuff (Is that so important to you? Never seemed to be a problem for me in WoW.)


    Good item sinks are an INFINITELY BETTER solution to this as compared to bind to account/equip. Whether or not it's a problem in WoW is completely irrelevent because this is the Diablo franchise, not World of Warcraft. I've been able to "recycle" my old gear in EVERY OTHER DIABLO TITLE SO FAR and it hasn't been a problem. Why is it suddenly such a massive economic problem now that it must be solved in this manner? D2 (online) had a huge amount of "good" items because of dupes. There was still vibrant trading, even with near-infinite supply and complete lack of binding of items.

    Quote from Solmyr77

    b)buy stuff only to resell it: That's clearly nowhere near the spirit of an action rpg, do we agree? Not that it is against it, either, but it doesn't have anything at all to do with monster slaying.


    You could flip in D2 as well, believe it or not. Some people amassed an absolutely amazing amount of wealth just by shopping the deals. SOME people. They didn't make items bind in D2 because some people were doing this though. The whole idea of flipping NECESSITATES that it's only done by a small portion of the population. The more people who are flipping the fewer the opportunities are to do so.

    Changing how the game fundamentally works because of a small segment of the population is a very bad idea. This isn't the RMAH gold dupe exploit where you obviously have to fix the exploit. What you're asking is for the concept of free trade to be completely impinged upon because some people are getting rich due to other people listing items too cheaply.

    You want to truly eliminate flipping? Educate people on how to price items. Don't screw over the entire playerbase with binding items over it, though.

    Quote from maka

    Would that not be your choice? You could choose: to be overpowered and sleep through the game, or NOT to be overpowered and sleep through the game.


    The game should basically be balanced around people playing on their own (or with family/friends) and some very light trading. You know... your buddy plays a monk, you find a nice Inna's Helm and you offer it to him. The game should not be based on MASS trading. If you engage in mass trading then you're going to "shoot through the ranks" and have to deal with the ramifications.

    They shouldn't remove or penalize trading. But they should de-incentivize it by making it plausible for you to effectively play the game without engaging in it.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
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  • #58
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from maka

    Would that not be your choice? You could choose: to be overpowered and sleep through the game, or NOT to be overpowered and sleep through the game.


    The game should basically be balanced around people playing on their own (or with family/friends) and some very light trading. You know... your buddy plays a monk, you find a nice Inna's Helm and you offer it to him. The game should not be based on MASS trading. If you engage in mass trading then you're going to "shoot through the ranks" and have to deal with the ramifications.

    They shouldn't remove or penalize trading. But they should de-incentivize it by making it plausible for you to effectively play the game without engaging in it.


    I've said this before, though probably not in this thread: I use the term "self found" loosely. The way I play is not strictly self found. If my friend says to me: "I was playing yesterday and found this helm, I thought you might want it", then yeah, I'll take it. I found 2 legendaries in the last few days, and gave them both to the friend I was playing with. Conversely, he gave me 2 rares that were good for my dude.
    Maybe I should add a disclaimer to my sig.
  • #59
    Quote from maka

    I've said this before, though probably not in this thread: I use the term "self found" loosely. The way I play is not strictly self found. If my friend says to me: "I was playing yesterday and found this helm, I thought you might want it", then yeah, I'll take it. I found 2 legendaries in the last few days, and gave them both to the friend I was playing with. Conversely, he gave me 2 rares that were good for my dude.
    Maybe I should add a disclaimer to my sig.


    Just say "never used the AH". But quite frankly, your definition of self-found is that what is most commonly used. It's just common sense. There was even a blue poster the other day who said this is his definition of self-found - you can just quote/link that ;-)
  • #60
    Quote from shaggy

    Good item sinks are an INFINITELY BETTER solution to this as compared to bind to account/equip. Whether or not it's a problem in WoW is completely irrelevent because this is the Diablo franchise, not World of Warcraft. I've been able to "recycle" my old gear in EVERY OTHER DIABLO TITLE SO FAR and it hasn't been a problem. Why is it suddenly such a massive economic problem now that it must be solved in this manner? D2 (online) had a huge amount of "good" items because of dupes. There was still vibrant trading, even with near-infinite supply and complete lack of binding of items.


    Feel free to propose a better item sink. I'd say taking something good from a game that had years of massive success isn't bad.

    I think, we have different opinions about the good times/aspects of D2. To me, the online experience died with the ever-present cheated items. You just couldn't tell, if an item was "legit" or not. And I neither wanted to be relatively weak (I used to think pretty competitively back then) or invent my own excuse for why my Ber-runes (yes, plural) were legit. I'd buy one for someone, who has played at least 2 years, they were that rare. I think, I never saw one actually drop, my best single rune was a Sur. And I've played high end D2 for way more time than I've played D3.

    But nevermind, to your question, about why there is suddenly a problem, that did not exist in D2 even though things were almost the same. That reason is the AH. It's not that the AH is bad, it kinda activates and spreads the virus, which is the overabundance of items. Back then it were (cheated) Ber-runes, now let's take Mempos again. This "in your face" accessibilty of the AH really enhances the problem, which at it's core is the same as it was with those Bers. It's true, that you could obtain such a rune just as easily and be overpowered like all the rest. It wasn't just that obvious to everyone and didn't negatively impact players who didn't care about others(=> in D3 there are adjusted drop rates). Those, who thought competitively (ladders..) were at a loss.

    You could flip in D2 as well, believe it or not. Some people amassed an absolutely amazing amount of wealth just by shopping the deals. SOME people.


    I'm aware of that, I know such people. It's fine, if they take their fun out of that. But, like you said, that's a small group of people and I would turn the argument around to say: We shouldn't keep crap because of a small group of people. The crap being unbinding items. Getting rid of flippers might have sounded like my main interest, but it's not. I wouldn't mind, if they were gone, as they contribute nothing, but that's really just a side effect of this item sink that is binding.



    They shouldn't remove or penalize trading. But they should de-incentivize it by making it plausible for you to effectively play the game without engaging in it.


    I kind of agree with this.

    I could reduce my suggested item sink to "bind to account on equip", that would be the bare minimum and a pure improvement of the game with no unwarranted penalties to anyone.

    That would keep trading and flipping alive and working at full capacity. The problem of this is, that time spent on the AH would remain more rewarding than time spent playing, which is one of the game's biggest issues. Tackling this is important, imo. And via my original suggestion, Blizz could kill those two birds with one stone.
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
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