[rant] overabundance of class specific items

  • #1
    Soo, is it just me?

    I got to play some and I really can't stand orange Wizard Hats or Hand Crossbows anymore. 6 out of my last 7 legs were class specific. Even Won Kim Lau gets old after a while..

    I remember some patch note that said, they would increase the drop rate of class specific items. WHY? I'd really like to see more regular orange helms or belts (for obvious reasons).

    Do they drop too often in general or do they just have an insane chance to become legendary? I won't start counting lower quality drops.

    edit: Make that 7 out of 11. Still too many imo, though #10 was EF, which kinda restores my mood. Until I id it tomorrow, that is ;)
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
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  • #2
    Funny, in my case the last 9 out of 10 legendaries that I found were Jewelry.

    I found 3 Stones of Jordan amongst these (and 2 Mara's Kaleidoscopes). Now what are the odds of that?
  • #3
    Well... I guess I shouldn't complain that I get too many legendary wands as a wizard. Except legendary wands kinda suck aside from the best of the best Sloraks...
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #4
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Funny, in my case the last 9 out of 10 legendaries that I found were Jewelry.


    I want that :)

    Quote from Jaetch

    Well... I guess I shouldn't complain that I get too many legendary wands as a wizard.


    Oh, you may very well do so. I don't exactly like finding Mighty Weapons either.

    Regarding odds, there are 41 base item types. 3 of them are follower equipment, which leaves 38 types that can roll legendary. 15 of them are class specific, so if things are supposed to be equal, we should see about 39% of our legendaries class specific. 2 are jewelry, which means about 5%.
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #5
    Quote from Solmyr77

    Regarding odds, there are 41 base item types. 3 of them are follower equipment, which leaves 38 types that can roll legendary. 15 of them are class specific, so if things are supposed to be equal, we should see about 39% of our legendaries class specific. 2 are jewelry, which means about 5%.


    That is... roughly... what I see from my orange/green drops. Makes me wish I had kept a spreadsheet of what I'd seen. Would be rather interesting huh?

    I have a major propensity towards Spirit Stones, apparently, because most of my class-specific orange/green drops have been Madstones, Inna's Helms, and Tzo Krin's Gazes. But I'd say that class-specific items are right around 40% of my orange/green drops. Hell, they might even be less than that. I have a fuckton of Strongarm Bracers, Frostburn Gauntlets, Lavawalkers, even Skorns at this point.

    EDIT
    As always with RNG, I would expect that some people will have experiences with drops that differ from the "average."
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
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  • #6
    1) A sample of 11 legendary items is not a just a small sample, it's a tiny little mini sample. It's like ranting about dice that didn't roll a 6 in your first 2 rolls.

    2) Are you talking legendaries only or in general? At some point Blizzard said they'd increase the percentage of class-specific item drops, not sure if that applied to legendaries as well (or legendaries only). Well, anyways... if you're talking about legendaries, there are useful and useless items in both the pool of class-specific and general items. Think about Won Khim Lau, Storm Crow, almost all class-specific off-hand items (DML, any wizard source,WD's chicken/frog/snake, IK belt, Inna's Radiance, and so on. And if you're considering non-legendaries, most of them are crap in general, no matter if they're class-specific or not. (Although 2.5 spirit regen items with good stats can still be quite useful.)

    3) As many people keep comparing D2 and D3, I'm just gonna throw this in: D2, especially LoD and act 5, was just FLOODED with useless class-specific items. At some point it felt like every freaking drop was a Jawbone barb helmet - and completely useless. I feel that the balance in D3 is much better with regard to class-specific drops.
  • #7
    Quote from Bagstone

    At some point Blizzard said they'd increase the percentage of class-specific item drops, not sure if that applied to legendaries as well (or legendaries only).


    This is exactly what i wanted to post. It applies to every quality iirc.





    Quote from name="patch 1.0.5 " »
  • #8
    Quote from Turtel

    Quote from name="patch 1.0.5 " »



    The great feature of DiabloFans: if you're too lazy to search for the link, someone else will deliver. Thanks Turtel :)
  • #9
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Turtel

    Quote from name="patch 1.0.5 " »



    The great feature of DiabloFans: if you're too lazy to search for the link, someone else will deliver. Thanks Turtel :)


    Hah! My pleasure.
  • #10
    Quote from Bagstone

    1) A sample of 11 legendary items is not a just a small sample, it's a tiny little mini sample. It's like ranting about dice that didn't roll a 6 in your first 2 rolls.


    Hey, I even called it a rant, don't mistake it for scientific research :D
    It's just that you have to complain sometimes in order to change things. Works best on soccer matches, but don't spread the word ;)

    I do feel that class specifics drop too often, that's why I also brought up that patch note, which Turtel thankfully provided us with.

    Now, to what effect did they increase the drop rate? Are they intended to drop as often as any other item so they match my above figures? Or do they even drop more often?

    What do you guys think? Would you prefer less class specific drops?
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #11
    Quote from Solmyr77

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Funny, in my case the last 9 out of 10 legendaries that I found were Jewelry.


    I want that :)

    They were all "meh" (as in too weak and too common in the AH to be worth something).

    No, I didn't get a Trifecta Tal Rasha's Allegiance :( I'd love to, though.
  • #12
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Quote from Solmyr77

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Funny, in my case the last 9 out of 10 legendaries that I found were Jewelry.


    I want that :)

    They were all "meh" (as in too weak and too common in the AH to be worth something).

    No, I didn't get a Trifecta Tal Rasha's Allegiance :( I'd love to, though.


    Found a crit chance Tal Amu some days ago. Too bad, my Sorc demanded it for her farming gear :)
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #13
    Agreed it is a problem. The combination of low ilvl items dropping more often than high ilvl items plus that class specific items are even more common is the reason behind our steady brimstone pile. Balefire caster, Gavel of Judgement and Dark Mage's Shade are some of the most common ones.

    Even though they increased the droprate of class. spec. items, those items doesn't garantee any class spec. bonuses like APoC or spirit regeneration. That just makes it that more items you find are either bad or not for you character. I really hope they would make a class specific item roll atleast one of the affixes.

    Fist weapons 6 affix:
    5 random properties
    Increase spirit regeneration by 1.00-2.50 spirit per second or Gain 25.0-100.0 Life per spirit spent.
    Make your peace...Quickly!
  • #14
    Just to follow up, I went through all the legendary/set items on all my toons, followers, and from my AH log for the past 3 months. Sample size was around 125 items. Bear in mind these were only AH-worthy or equip-worthy items so things like Ivory Towers, most Strongarm Bracers, most Fire Walkers, Frostburn Gauntlets, Ageless Mights are not included.

    The final tally was just over 42% class-specific items. it was something like 42.3%. This is close enough to the expected value of 39.5% due to the inaccuracy introduced by being unable to count old stuff that went straight to salvage.

    Quote from Solmyr77

    Found a crit chance Tal Amu some days ago. Too bad, my Sorc demanded it for her farming gear :)


    I saw "Amulet" written in green a couple days ago. Unfortunately I had not found a Tal Rasha's Adjudication. Oddly enough, someone did pay for my shitty The Traveler's Pledge.

    Quote from Elendiro

    Agreed it is a problem. The combination of low ilvl items dropping more often than high ilvl items plus that class specific items are even more common is the reason behind our steady brimstone pile. Balefire caster, Gavel of Judgement and Dark Mage's Shade are some of the most common ones.


    Maybe I'm the outlier here but the vast majority of the Legendary/Set items I find are 62/63. It's rare that I find 58/59s. Could be dumb luck, but I've certainly found more Storm Crows than Dark Mage's Shade.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #15
    Quote from shaggy

    Maybe I'm the outlier here but the vast majority of the Legendary/Set items I find are 62/63. It's rare that I find 58/59s. Could be dumb luck, but I've certainly found more Storm Crows than Dark Mage's Shade.

    There are actually not many 58/59 legendary items. Dark Mage Shade and Pus Spitter are the only ones immediately coming to my mind. There are probably others, but compared to all the legendaries dropping on Inferno, the list is very short.

    Also, on mp1+, all monsters are lvl 63, and if I recall correctly, they have a higher chance of dropping 60+ instead of 58-59
  • #16
    Thanks for the bigger sample size, shaggy. Seems they drop as often as intended. Which is too often imo.

    Regarding ilvl, I wonder if some legendaries have a hidden rarity. Of some item types, I get the lower lvl legendary much more often. Like more Strongarm Bracers than Lacunis, more Andariels than Mempos and beyond count more Fire Walkers than Ice Climbers. This may be the norm and directly relative to the amount of ilvl62s vs 63s.
    But there's one notable exception. I definitely found more Sun Keepers than Echoing Furys.

    And shaggy, my Wizard Hats during the last days were split pretty even.
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
  • #17
    All the gold I ever made through drops happened ( mainly ) on patch day ( CONSPIRACY ! ) where I get like 1200dps Calamity and stuff like that.And 2 weeks into a patch and my screen is full of wizard hats/shitty rings I dont even know the name of / monk hats ( besides inna ) / Slorak's madness / 1-H ilvl 60 crossbows ( dont even know the name, smth like DAneta or w/e ).

    Obviously i'm getting some decent legs here and there but noone of them actually roll to a degree that would make them sellable past 10 mil.

    So in that sense, I'm eagerly waiting for them to buff the legendaries that are shit atm.
  • #18
    Quote from Solmyr77

    Thanks for the bigger sample size, shaggy. Seems they drop as often as intended. Which is too often imo.


    Well, if 15 of 38 items are class-specific, you'd expect that 15 of 38 legendaries to be class-specific. Unless my understanding of Magic Find is severely flawed.

    Quote from Solmyr77

    Regarding ilvl, I wonder if some legendaries have a hidden rarity. Of some item types, I get the lower lvl legendary much more often. Like more Strongarm Bracers than Lacunis, more Andariels than Mempos and beyond count more Fire Walkers than Ice Climbers. This may be the norm and directly relative to the amount of ilvl62s vs 63s.
    But there's one notable exception. I definitely found more Sun Keepers than Echoing Furys.


    http://www.diablowik...power-mlvls.jpg

    Based on that graphic (which I'm 99% sure is from Blizzard) it would be logical to expect that of 1000 legendaries 271 would be iLvl 61, 217 would be iLvl 62, and 163 would be iLvl 63. It also means that 349 (or 34.9%) of the drops are split between iLvl 58, 59, and 60. If anyone is finding a majority of their legendaries as 58, 59, or 60 that's a big statistical anomaly since you should get roughly two 61-63 items per one 58-60 item.

    My experience with specific slots (ie: Strongarm Bracers vs Lacuni Prowlers or Fire Walkers vs Ice Climbers) do NOT bear this out. In fact I probably have a dozen Strongarm Bracers for one Lacuni Prowlers. But, if I catalogued all legendaries across all slots I'm willing to be that ratio becomes more apparent. When you're only looking at 15-20 legendary/set bracer drops it's just not a sufficient sample size, obviously.

    I'm exactly the opposite with Echoing Fury and Sun Keeper. I have one (maybe two) Sun Keepers and six (maybe more) Echoing Furies.

    In all seriousness, I'm a big statistics/numbers geek. If you guys like I can catalog my Legendary/Set item drops until I get a reasonable sample size (500-1000) and post my results.

    Quote from Solmyr77

    And shaggy, my Wizard Hats during the last days were split pretty even.


    I got three Ivory Towers in one single play game (all three in the Fields of Misery, nonetheless). RNG can be a real harsh mistress huh? Admittedly that RNG was so wild that it even had me scratching my head wondering if someone at Blizzard was "watching" me play and trying to fuck with me! ;)

    Quote from Diavolo222

    So in that sense, I'm eagerly waiting for them to buff the legendaries that are shit atm.


    Amen to that.

    One thing I hope they learned is that many Legendaries/Sets were actually useful in the beginning, but that they simply didn't have appropriate stats to compete with the very top-end items. I actually sold a Sever on the RMAH for like $8 or 9. I couldn't get anyone to piss on me for a Sever nowadays unless it fit that monk/DH build. Sever USED to be reasonable. Its top end stats simply didn't keep pace with item creep.

    That's the major issue with legendaries. Sever isn't exactly a horrible item. It's not amazing either. It just doesn't have the same top-end value as something like an Echoing Fury and, therefore, it gets phased out quickly. Imagine if a Sever could roll 1300 DPS and maybe something like 5% crit. It wouldn't be AMAZING, but just by bumping two stats it becomes something that some people might actually want (perhaps a WW barb for an off-hand, IDK).

    Not every item requires a massive redesign, that's all I'm saying. There are a good number of Legendary/Set items which simply don't have the top-end potential to be useable for anything more than a couple of weeks. I truly hope Blizzard keys in on that becuase if they don't then they're going to make another round of Legendaryies/Sets that are useable for a short period of time and then fade into obscurity once the Echoing Furies of the world become more common. (And also fixes the ones that can never, ever, be good. :))
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #19
    ^^Solution for that, at game launch? ITEM SINKS, FFS!!!
    Solution now? Fuck knows...
  • #20
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Solmyr77

    Thanks for the bigger sample size, shaggy. Seems they drop as often as intended. Which is too often imo.


    Well, if 15 of 38 items are class-specific, you'd expect that 15 of 38 legendaries to be class-specific. Unless my understanding of Magic Find is severely flawed.


    Yes, that's to be expected. I just mean, that I don't want so many class specific items.


    In fact I probably have a dozen Strongarm Bracers for one Lacuni Prowlers. But, if I catalogued all legendaries across all slots I'm willing to be that ratio becomes more apparent. When you're only looking at 15-20 legendary/set bracer drops it's just not a sufficient sample size, obviously.

    I'm exactly the opposite with Echoing Fury and Sun Keeper. I have one (maybe two) Sun Keepers and six (maybe more) Echoing Furies.

    In all seriousness, I'm a big statistics/numbers geek. If you guys like I can catalog my Legendary/Set item drops until I get a reasonable sample size (500-1000) and post my results.


    Well, I'd like some statistics, but I think, you can't just mash all items together. If I were in the office now, I'd had to throw the "Grundsatz der Einzelbewertung" (principle of individual evaluation) at you :P
    I hope, the term is self-explanatory. In our case, I think, we might very well get a regular statistical distribution of ilvl62 vs 63 items if we take all items in existence. But if for example Echoing Fury (62) and Mempo (63) were extra-rare (due to their power), those effects might cancel each other out if not checked individually.

    edit:
    Forgot what I wanted to say about the general legendary weapon situation:

    I'm actually fine with the situation of one-handed weapons. Sure, it could be better, it always could be, but aside from some default-garbage legendaries, I don't see many issues.

    We have two extremely good legs (EF and Chantodo), which are good because of their unique property of +0.2x attacks. Both come with their drawbacks (fear, class specific/non-black, not enough affix slots for everything), so they are widely used, but not near as mandatory as other items, which I'll mention in a minute.

    Then there are situational legs like Sever or Won Kim Lau, that are useful under certain conditions due to their unique (or "legendary" :P) attributes, which is exactly, what legs should be about.

    And then there are the rares, which come in various types and are all somehow useful, even (or: especially) in endgame, because they're not obliterated by Joe Shmoe's super-axe.

    So, all in all, very good! I'd like more items that fall in the second category and a better balance between weapon types.

    A short look at two-handed and ranged weapons shows, how good the one-handed situation is. In those spots we have Skorn and Manticore, which single-handedly render any other two-handed/ranged weapon obsolete. And that's not even because of cool, unique properties. It's just because of their incredible default rolls. Who wouldn't like the new ilvl63 rare ring recipe to look like "+200-230 main stat, +5-6% crit chance, +7-9% atk speed, +40-50% crit damage, + 2 random attributes" ;)
    I apologize for any formating issues in my posts, I just can't use the new editor.Currently playing Magic 2014, see my thread:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/97565-magic-2014/
    Also, if you like Classics, try:Dungeons and Dragons Anthology ( http://www.gamersgat...ster-collection )
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