Could be the final straw.

  • #1
    I love the Diablo franchise, but I'm a very naive gamer. I pre-ordered D3, and woke up at 3:00 am only to be disappointed with several other thousand gamers. But have still played throughout the many up's and down's.

    I have a DH Paragon 35, and a Monk at Paragon 2.

    I haven't spent a dime of my money at the auction house, and my strong point isn't hawking items on the AH just sell them for more later. I do feel that I'm good at this game, if that can really be said, I love going through each skill and finding little niche fighting styles with the different builds.I didn't stay away from the AH, I used it for gold and selling items that I wouldn't use, but I never found anything extravagant. But I don't feel that my lack of economic skills at moving items should hold me back from progressing the best character that I can.

    I feel that I've gotten my value from the amount of time I've put into the game, but it hit me today why I feel I won't play again. I was playing with a friend of mine who finally leveled his DH to 60, and purchased items for about $10 which made his DH SO much better than mine. Of course it might feel fake but it really took away the gaming experience that I was looking for away.

    After about 350 hours into this game, I must be silly to want that time to mean something that $10 can't beat out.

    Thoughts? Lyger20#1446
  • #2
    If you enjoyed your time spent playing the game, what does it matter that someone spends $10 and has better gear? Sure it's a gear based game but really the point of it should be to have fun.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #3
    Quote from Loroese

    If you enjoyed your time spent playing the game, what does it matter that someone spends $10 and has better gear? Sure it's a gear based game but really the point of it should be to have fun.


    Pretty much this.
  • #4
    Honestly, what I think?

    I think you're a great example of a misguided player.

    I take pride in ascending through PLAYING THE GAME, as opposed to EVER spending a damn dirty nickle to improve my char.

    There is a great deal of pride in getting your char to a respectable level without using the RMAH.

    I'm a straight shooter, you asked for honest opinion, well here it is. I find it utterly pathetic that it bothers you what other players achieve through RMAH transactions. Your attitude is blatantly disgusting to me.

    Some basic truths; ALL loot/gold based PC games witness thousands of players ascending to the top with a single real money transaction. Real money transactions are available to players of ALL PC games.

    So if you don't like that, stick to your console and enjoy the bevy of hundreds of FPS genre games.

    If you want to play with the big boys, getting respect in Diablo3...well....god dammit you're gonna have to earn it. I competed in D2 Zealot tournaments for years. MOST....and I mean fuckin most of my opponents had bought all their gears, including such dubious and heavily duped items as a full inv of 3/20/20 charms.

    But I worked hard enough, long enough, that I could hold my own against most of them, save for the top 1% of heavily shopped chars.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #5
    Life lesson nr 1 : it is a mistake to base your enjoyment of the things you do on others. Do what you like to do as long as you like it. If you realy just play because you enjoy it, you could not care less about what a friend of yours does. Obviously you didnt...

    Edit : Oh, and I totally agree with Ruksak. Didnt happen often so far on this forum, but maybe we just got off to the wrong start ^^
  • #6
    I would suggest you try hardcore. Sure, some people play to win in hardcore as well. I've seen fresh 60s with crazy good gear that was purchased after trading SC for HC gold from someone. I've seen very few of these plays hit high paragon levels, because they fall by the wayside and lose all that gear that wasn't earned through steady play and acceptance of risk.

    Or, play your game and try not to be overcome by jealousy of the amazing things others can achieve by taking shortcuts.
  • #7
    Quote from Twoflower

    Edit : Oh, and I totally agree with Ruksak. Didnt happen often so far on this forum, but maybe we just got off to the wrong start ^^


    Hey...w're here to give honest opinion and I respect any man that tells me I'm wrong, so long as he's got some reason to think so. I've had some pretty fired up exchanges with several members of this forum that are on my D3 F/L now, and I play with them whenever I can.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #8
    I understand your feelings, but as ruksak said, and he said the same to me some time ago while i was ranting against AH flippers and the whole game economy, you really shouldn't let other people's actions influence your view on this game (and other matters).
    I know, it's annoying to see other players or even close friends pulling out the credit card or economic skills to gain high end gear fast, way faster than you get while playing the actual game, but if you like killing monsters, just do it.
    Playing HC is a good way to escape this AH madness, but i understand if you don't like it or you can't stand losing your character (i lost mine on March, and i didn't start a new HC character yet.... the trauma is too much).

    Well, i did another messy post, without really saying anything.... sooooo... I can only say: "Play the game for your own enjoyment, fuck the other!" or take a little break <.
  • #9
    I'm starting to really see how having a HC realm, a SC realm and a SC no-AH's Ladder realm would remedy much of this angst toward fellow players that can climb up and down your ass just because they bought their gears.

    I love playing HC just for it's decreased reliance on the AH for most players. However, the permanent death thing keeps many people away from HC because...well that's just not something many folks want.

    At first I was opposed to any talk of Ladders. Now, however, if they did so without the use of AH's in strict 6 month intervals, I would probably play that over anything else.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #10
    Quote from ruksak
    and a SC no-AH's Ladder realm would remedy much of this angst toward fellow players that can climb up and down your ass just because they bought their gears.


    Unless there's no trading possible, a no-AH ladder wouldn't completely eliminate the ability to just buy gear from other players. There's plenty of people willing to use 3rd party sites to buy and sell gear or gold, even with the AH and RMAH in place.

    If anything I feel the AH evens the playing field for the rest of us who don't want to use 3rd party sites and/or don't trust people much to try trading away small fortunes for an item at the risk of them doing some exploit to swap the item at the last second, or something similar.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #11
    I take pride in knowing i made a good char with no RMAH and although it pisses me off that some ppl do buy gear for money and we can't play separately from them, we have to remember that the gear bought was a drop eventually, thus making it somewhat logical that some1 would end up with it, just enjoy the game and play, eventually u'll hit the jackpot on some item and will be able to see some faster progress on your char.
    Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
  • #12
    I'm still not sold to a Ladder system. I know that D2 needed it cause of dupes, and a fresh start every 6-10 months is a good way to keep the economy stable, but it's an artificial way to keep replayability, in my opinion.
    I never liked the idea to restart a character to have access to the ladder and have access to every items in the game (some Runewords and Uniques were really good). But we have no idea if Blizzard will use a similar system in D3 in the future, so this is just pointless brainstorming, but if they ever put a no AH mode, after a needed itemization overhaul, i think i'll gladly restart a new Demon Hunter.
  • #13
    I understand the OP's frustration, but what has happened in D3 happens in every aspect of life if you think about it. There are always people who want to take shortcuts, always people who dont want to work for anything. It is no surprise to me so many people chose to rely on the RMAH. I have not used it and dont plan to. Other than the fact that i have much better shit to spend my money on (sorry if you use the RMAH, no offense, do what you want), I think if i was to just go balls out and gear up on the RMAH, i would become bored REALLY quick.

    Because whats next? Sure, you can start another character, but most people who use the RMAH once will do it again.

    The thrill of the game is the hunt.

    I went to hardcore about a month before 1.08 hit. Ive already lost a low paragon level WD with half decent gear, but the game has been a lot more fun. I lost my WD and started up a new one minutes later. Got my first BIG drop since release day and turned it into some decent gear. The progress is whats fun to me. Using money to catapult me to end game sounds extremely lame to me, but as i said, no offense to people who use the RMAH. Doesnt bother me.
  • #14
    Quote from Seifa

    I'm still not sold to a Ladder system. I know that D2 needed it cause of dupes, and a fresh start every 6-10 months is a good way to keep the economy stable, but it's an artificial way to keep replayability, in my opinion.
    I never liked the idea to restart a character to have access to the ladder and have access to every items in the game (some Runewords and Uniques were really good). But we have no idea if Blizzard will use a similar system in D3 in the future, so this is just pointless brainstorming, but if they ever put a no AH mode, after a needed itemization overhaul, i think i'll gladly restart a new Demon Hunter.


    D3 won't need it from dupes, but the botting is getting a little insane. Its pretty obvious that the market is flooded, and if you're a d2jsp forum member, you can see first hand this 'hidden' economy'. I stated in another thread the same thing, but it is getting out of control.

    As to the OP's problem, I'd say if you enjoy the game, why does it bother you?
  • #15
    I trust your word Stephen. I'm pretty naive as a gamer and i never found interest in economics in my rpg games, i always farmed my currency like a chinese (i find it really relaxing), but i know there are people that have passion for it and manipulate the ingame economy to gain the better profit and others that use real life money to buy gold, gil, zeny or whatever the currecy of the game is.

    The SC economy is kinda screwed now, and we don't have a good recycle system to remove items from the game. Now it's easier to gear up with few dollars, as the OP's friend did, than progress by playing the game since the saturation and inflation is over the top now.... but i can't think about a good solution that doesn't require a complete forced reset of the economy :S
  • #16
    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from ruksak
    and a SC no-AH's Ladder realm would remedy much of this angst toward fellow players that can climb up and down your ass just because they bought their gears.


    Unless there's no trading possible, a no-AH ladder wouldn't completely eliminate the ability to just buy gear from other players. There's plenty of people willing to use 3rd party sites to buy and sell gear or gold, even with the AH and RMAH in place.

    If anything I feel the AH evens the playing field for the rest of us who don't want to use 3rd party sites and/or don't trust people much to try trading away small fortunes for an item at the risk of them doing some exploit to swap the item at the last second, or something similar.


    I should've been more clear. A no trade no AH Ladder realm would be interesting, as there is a large enough contingent that enjoys playing untwinked.

    I'm torn over the existence of the RMAH. I know it makes a huge dent in the illicit item/gold trade. I know it provides us with the security that there will be continued development, maintenance and patching LONG into the future.

    But it also causes many people to purchase items/gold that would likely not have done so where it not sanctioned and so readily available.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #17
    Quote from Quaker_Gamer

    I feel that I've gotten my value from the amount of time I've put into the game, but it hit me today why I feel I won't play again. I was playing with a friend of mine who finally leveled his DH to 60, and purchased items for about $10 which made his DH SO much better than mine. Of course it might feel fake but it really took away the gaming experience that I was looking for away.


    Why does it take away anything from you?

    There are a lot of reasons why some people will make fairly minor $$$ investments in their character. For some it's a hobby and they're used to paying for hobbies. You know, like building model planes you buy the kit and the paint and then you also invest your time. Some people see video games similarly. Some people have harsh work schedules but get paid handsomly for that. They don't mind throwing a little extra $$$ into a game to make up for their lack of time commitment to the game.

    There are so many benign reasons as to why someone would "pay 2 win" especially in a game like Diablo. It doesn't hurt you though. Take, just for a second, this from your friend's perspective:

    Him: "Yo, man, you haven't been on D3 for a while, what's up?"
    You: "Oh, yeah I'm not really interested in the game anymore."
    Him: "Why's that?"
    You: "You bought items on the RMAH and it made me hate the game."

    How do you think that would feel if you were in his place? Don't you think that comes off as amazingly presumptuous, selfish, and just downright childish? It's almost like saying you hate riding your bike cause your friend bought a nicer bike. If you think the answer is to tell him that he is not allowed to pay extra to have a nicer bike than you... well then the problem lies with how you're looking at the situation and how you're unable to comprehend anything outside of "me me me me me me me."

    EDIT
    To make a direct D3 comparison here... Ruksak has better gear than me. I did a co-op game with him and he had to settle for 2 MPs lower than he can farm solo. I'm sure that we both had a blast laughing at how many times I got an off-screen charge from one of those fucking savage beasts, or I'd get triple-charged with Spirit Walk on CD. I sure didn't let his vastly superior gear destroy my ego and he surely didn't scoff at me and tell me that he doesn't group with raging scrubs that don't have 450k DPS.

    Why? Because decent people don't do that shit to each other. I'm not a very religious person, but there's a reason that envy is a deadly sin. Your envy of someone else's pixels has caused you to dislike something that you, by all accounts, like. The ENVY is the problem. Fix the problem.
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #18
    How about this.

    I spent $250 on a Witching Hour in the RMAH.

    Or I super-flipped something I got for 2b on the AH and sold it to someone else for 5b.

    Now that WH may end up in someone else's hands through a trade. Or maybe the person who got my $250 will buy gold to pay for a drop someone else got.

    That 3b profit I got could be used to buy someone else's drop. Now they have the gold they can use to buy a crazy item somewhere else.

    As said, this is a gear based game. As said, all the gear comes from somewhere. Someone gets a drop and he/she can trade it for other gear, gold, or real money. How someone gets their hands on a piece of gear should in no way directly influence how you play the game and how the game will treat you.

    As I'm typing this, someone on the U.S. server I play on probably just dumped $1,000 on re-tuning his or her monk or DH or wizard, barb, WD.

    Not that I care. If it's somehow a competition and that I may lose a kidney if he has higher DPS than me, okay, maybe then I'll care that he spent that money. But no, we're all running the same acts 1-4 and slapping monsters around and really, no one should lose sleep over someone killing an elite 1.25 seconds faster.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #19
    Quote from ruksak

    I love playing HC just for it's decreased reliance on the AH for most players. However, the permanent death thing keeps many people away from HC because...well that's just not something many folks want.


    Yup. I'd love to play a mode that has the ethos that HC has, but I just plain dislike permanent death. I don't play enough time to keep restarting characters, and the thought of losing hard-earned gear through no fault of my own (lag spike, DC, etc) sickens me.
  • #20
    Damnit Quaker! You copycat'ed my profile pic :kitty:
    Make your peace...Quickly!
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