Blizzard does not often just implement something just because a competitor did. Also when they do, they tend to put their own style and refinement to it.
Are we talking about the same Blizzard here?
They are kinda famous for taking what others did, and just do it a little better.
Which s a great thing.
Of course they only copy things they like (or things that are demanded a lot by the players), and I somewhat doubt they like PoEs racing system.
Blizzard does not often just implement something just because a competitor did. Also when they do, they tend to put their own style and refinement to it.
Are we talking about the same Blizzard here?
They are kinda famous for taking what others did, and just do it a little better.
Which s a great thing.
Of course they only copy things they like (or things that are demanded a lot by the players), and I somewhat doubt they like PoEs racing system.
You did just say exactly what I said. You know that right?
When I say "just implement something because a competitor did" and you say "Of course they only copy things they like" we are on the same track.
When I say "Also when they do, they tend to put their own style and refinement to it." and you say "taking what others did, and just do it a little better." we are also on the same track.
Just because it is not always clear, I am not actually snarking you here, but I wanted to make sure my message was coming across clear. Blizzard, like every other major developer uses successful design concepts from other games. Blizzard also often(but not always) makes them better. Occassionally they pioneer a concept across an industry as well. They do not however just add the mechanic of the month to there game just because some other game has it.
This is done for multiple reasons, most common likely(conjecture) being that the design of the mechanic does not immediately fit the design of the game they have.
PoE has made it pretty firmly clear that they are designing a hardcore game for hardcore players. They want a merciless game for the bloodthirsty. Blizzard does not make those games. They have features that can appeal to those people, but there games are always designed with a wider appeal.
They do not however just add the mechanic of the month to there game just because some other game has it.
I really think that these two statements are exactly why I'm very much OK with PoE being the hardcore eSports ARPG with races and ladders and being competition-driven and with D3 being the more-accessible, less-competitive, ARPG. If I wanted a hardcore environment with daily competitions I know exactly where I can find that. There simply doesn't need to be overlap here. Each game needs its own identity.
This is the same argument I have as to why things that worked in D2 shouldn't instantly be glorified as how D3 should have been made. Games need differentiation. It's the biggest issue people have with trying to make a WoW-competitor. You need to differentiate your game to generate interest. People aren't going to quit playing D3 after thousands of hours of character development to play another game that's essentially D3 with darker graphics. There needs to be a compelling difference between the games. PoE and D3 need to be fundamentally different for the success of both games.
SW:ToR, for example, basically gave us WoW with lightsabers. You could look through their talent trees and see talents that were copied almost directly from WoW. They failed hard at attracting WoW players because there simply was insufficient differentiation among products. Why would someone who had invested months, maybe years, in WoW want to throw that away to play what was essentially the same game? The reason WoW dethroned EQ was because WoW offered major differences that truly appealed to the players. WoW dared to be different, listened to what EQ players were saying, and they made a mark on the MMORPG market. SW:ToR didn't dare to be different, didn't really address shortcomings with EQ, and couldn't maintain enough subscriptions so it had to go F2P within a year.
TL;DR
Differentiation between games of the same genre is good for all involved, especially the players. PoE shouldn't implement lots of D3 features and neither should D3 implement lots of PoE features (hell, throw TL2 in there too). Each game should strive to be different.
D3 doesn't need races any more than PoE needs gold. Let the games be different products.
D3 doesn't need races any more than PoE needs gold. Let the games be different products.
Maybe. It just sucks for people who think neither games are really offering high enough quality
No matter which player bases they might be aiming for.
You can learn lessons from others while trying to do your own things. Not that I think D3 has much if anything to learn specifically from PoE, since much of the stuff they ought to improve, should be obvious, without having another game as a reference.
Let the dungeon be a random spawn in one of the open areas in the act you are on and/or increase the number of NV stacks required to enter it to 10 or so.
Also if you find it before you have the stacks you should be unable to enter it until you have them.
To avoid inflation in the MF and XP numbers every stack past the 5th one should not add any extra MF/XP but only count towards the opening of the dungeon.
Hope this sounds rational
While I appreciate your neat posts, you basically took the idea I proposed a little while ago with slightly watered down details, and added pictures : \ http://www.diablofan...em-suggestions/
No reason to accuse someone of taking your idea. Also no reason not to expand on someone else's idea with more detail and design. There is no competition here, or prize to win. Just a bunch of passionate fans wanting to express our vision of the future enhancements to the game. I am quite confident numerous people came to the same conclusion about what they want to see even sometimes with the similar or same terminology.
But you know, if it makes you feel better, it is acknowledged that you posted a similar idea first.(on this forum, cannot verify others, or within the millions of people who play this games' heads).
OP could make it clearer that these are his ideas and not from Blizzard, calling his patch 1.0.9 ideas a '1.0.9 patch preview' in the first paragraph is particularly disingenuous!
Just bothers me that lots of people are calling this guy a genius for his ideas when they aren't original. I posted this idea on the official forums over a month ago and got no comments, and again the same idea on these forums a few days ago and only got a couple comments. Yet this guy posts a couple pictures with the same idea and people call him brilliant.
It is a good idea, and blizzard should listen to these ideas. But if he wanted to continue the conversation he should have helped elaborate on the original idea from my thread rather then making a new one with the same idea.
Just bothers me that lots of people are calling this guy a genius for his ideas when they aren't original. I posted this idea on the official forums over a month ago and got no comments, and again the same idea on these forums a few days ago and only got a couple comments. Yet this guy posts a couple pictures with the same idea and people call him brilliant.
It is a good idea, and blizzard should listen to these ideas. But if he wanted to continue the conversation he should have helped elaborate on the original idea from my thread rather then making a new one with the same idea.
Why your thread? You assume he saw your thread. Who cares if people call him a genius? Because he is not? Because you had the same idea? Would you complain if your thread was popular and people called you a genius?
Every passionate fan has had an idea created and ignored only to have someone else create a flashier thread, or a more eye catching title and suddenly getting attention. Being a fan isn't a contest. I am excited if good ideas get attention. I am also disappointed when bad ideas get attention, and that drives me to start posting my own ideas.
Instead of worrying that some other handle on the internet is getting attention, contribute to the conversation. Add and expand on the ideas. Make them better. Be happy the idea has attention.
Instead of worrying that some other handle on the internet is getting attention, contribute to the conversation. Add and expand on the ideas. Make them better. Be happy the idea has attention.
The problem is that a well-presented "bad" idea can't be trumped by a badly presented better idea. Example: politics... it's not about what you say, but how you say it.
Besides, if you present ready-made patch notes you don't leave much room for conversation. "Hey, here's my idea: X, Y, and Z. What do you think?" gives people more opportunities for feedback than "Hey, I have a dream and here's my awesome shiny Photoshop of it." What are you gonna say? "Well, you know, the pixels are nice, but please stop dreaming?"
I think his points are valid. And I also understand if someone is upset if his work was plagiarized (didn't check though). It's definitely not new, so all the +1's are for the Photoshops.
Instead of worrying that some other handle on the internet is getting attention, contribute to the conversation. Add and expand on the ideas. Make them better. Be happy the idea has attention.
The problem is that a well-presented "bad" idea can't be trumped by a badly presented better idea. Example: politics... it's not about what you say, but how you say it.
Besides, if you present ready-made patch notes you don't leave much room for conversation. "Hey, here's my idea: X, Y, and Z. What do you think?" gives people more opportunities for feedback than "Hey, I have a dream and here's my awesome shiny Photoshop of it." What are you gonna say? "Well, you know, the pixels are nice, but please stop dreaming?"
I think his points are valid. And I also understand if someone is upset if his work was plagiarized (didn't check though). It's definitely not new, so all the +1's are for the Photoshops.
I agree. Marketing is what it is. Whining about it and saying "but but but MY POST TOO!!!"(not saying that is how Lizardo came across necessarily) just makes it worse though. Now you are adding nothing to the conversation, devaluing your opinions in the eyes of true believers(the people who bought the marketing the moment they opened the post), devalued your opinions to skeptics as well.
Whether a post presents room for discussion or not, a discussion can happen with or without the blessing of the OP. Pretty much how things happen. It is up to the posters to choose to improve upon it. Then the now thinktanked idea can be re-presented. The old one will be forgotten and someone else gets the "credit". For whatever that credit is worth.
It is perfectly possible for a rational mind to ignore the sheep +1'ing for pretty pictures and to discuss the contents, as infuriating as it can be to actively participate in a thread where rationality of many has been turned off.
Man, I'll have to add those disclaimers I talked to you before. In the thread title and the OP. People are still taking this seriously and thinking it might confuse others.
Man, I'll have to add those disclaimers I talked to you before. In the thread title and the OP. People are still taking this seriously and thinking it might confuse others.
Thanks, I'll be sure to copy the disclaimer on any future posts I make.
Thanks guys. Next time I spend lots of time thinking about and writing down an idea I will make sure I add some pretty pictures to go with it and also suggest multiple options to allow for more conversation : )
I draw and build props, so I may be a little more easily agitated then others when someone re-markets property or ideas. I've been burned before, and obviously this doesn't really count since there is no money earned from any of this. But it still affects me.
I'm also a little surprised that the OP never really comments any further in his posts.
Thanks guys. Next time I spend lots of time thinking about and writing down an idea I will make sure I add some pretty pictures to go with it and also suggest multiple options to allow for more conversation : )
I draw and build props, so I may be a little more easily agitated then others when someone re-markets property or ideas. I've been burned before, and obviously this doesn't really count since there is no money earned from any of this. But it still affects me.
I'm also a little surprised that the OP never really comments any further in his posts.
Hey there,
I actually just read your post today for the first time after reading your comments, we did have some pretty similar ideas. Great minds think alike I guess :). I'm sure many of the things I've posted have been mentioned before by someone, I didn't try to take anyone else's ideas to try to steal the credit for them. As for making them into a neat presentable package, I'm currently employed as a marketer and web designer so I deal with lots of writing/designing on a regular basis and I'm used to presenting ideas in such a fashion.
I also happen to be very passionate when it comes to the Diablo series, MMO's, and other games for that matter, I actually wanted to make it my career growing up but never had the opportunity. I literally have binders filled with ideas, many for already existing games. I've tried to use official game forums before to showcase ideas i've had but they don't seem to work as well when you can't combine graphics and writing to express them, so this is why I chose instead to use the forums here to express my ideas.
I've got many other ideas that I'm going to be presenting here on the the forums, some that probably won't be taken as positively as my last one's but I still want to share them to at least get some discussion going. Many of these are probably going to be one's that may have been already mentioned some where by some one, it's just the probability of suggesting things with a game this popular.
I like it. A ladder type thing would definitely bring a lot of people back to the game (me included). I haven't touched it for months since other games are progressing faster and in a more enjoyable way (MWO or PoE for example). I would really enjoy a scoring system like this. It needs some tweaks to prevent abuse, but the general idea is nice. They should hire you guys instead of coming up with semi-bad ideas themselves.
They are kinda famous for taking what others did, and just do it a little better.
Which s a great thing.
Of course they only copy things they like (or things that are demanded a lot by the players), and I somewhat doubt they like PoEs racing system.
You did just say exactly what I said. You know that right?
When I say "just implement something because a competitor did" and you say "Of course they only copy things they like" we are on the same track.
When I say "Also when they do, they tend to put their own style and refinement to it." and you say "taking what others did, and just do it a little better." we are also on the same track.
Just because it is not always clear, I am not actually snarking you here, but I wanted to make sure my message was coming across clear. Blizzard, like every other major developer uses successful design concepts from other games. Blizzard also often(but not always) makes them better. Occassionally they pioneer a concept across an industry as well. They do not however just add the mechanic of the month to there game just because some other game has it.
This is done for multiple reasons, most common likely(conjecture) being that the design of the mechanic does not immediately fit the design of the game they have.
I really think that these two statements are exactly why I'm very much OK with PoE being the hardcore eSports ARPG with races and ladders and being competition-driven and with D3 being the more-accessible, less-competitive, ARPG. If I wanted a hardcore environment with daily competitions I know exactly where I can find that. There simply doesn't need to be overlap here. Each game needs its own identity.
This is the same argument I have as to why things that worked in D2 shouldn't instantly be glorified as how D3 should have been made. Games need differentiation. It's the biggest issue people have with trying to make a WoW-competitor. You need to differentiate your game to generate interest. People aren't going to quit playing D3 after thousands of hours of character development to play another game that's essentially D3 with darker graphics. There needs to be a compelling difference between the games. PoE and D3 need to be fundamentally different for the success of both games.
SW:ToR, for example, basically gave us WoW with lightsabers. You could look through their talent trees and see talents that were copied almost directly from WoW. They failed hard at attracting WoW players because there simply was insufficient differentiation among products. Why would someone who had invested months, maybe years, in WoW want to throw that away to play what was essentially the same game? The reason WoW dethroned EQ was because WoW offered major differences that truly appealed to the players. WoW dared to be different, listened to what EQ players were saying, and they made a mark on the MMORPG market. SW:ToR didn't dare to be different, didn't really address shortcomings with EQ, and couldn't maintain enough subscriptions so it had to go F2P within a year.
TL;DR
Differentiation between games of the same genre is good for all involved, especially the players. PoE shouldn't implement lots of D3 features and neither should D3 implement lots of PoE features (hell, throw TL2 in there too). Each game should strive to be different.
D3 doesn't need races any more than PoE needs gold. Let the games be different products.
Maybe. It just sucks for people who think neither games are really offering high enough quality
No matter which player bases they might be aiming for.
You can learn lessons from others while trying to do your own things. Not that I think D3 has much if anything to learn specifically from PoE, since much of the stuff they ought to improve, should be obvious, without having another game as a reference.
Also if you find it before you have the stacks you should be unable to enter it until you have them.
To avoid inflation in the MF and XP numbers every stack past the 5th one should not add any extra MF/XP but only count towards the opening of the dungeon.
Hope this sounds rational
http://www.diablofan...em-suggestions/
But you know, if it makes you feel better, it is acknowledged that you posted a similar idea first.(on this forum, cannot verify others, or within the millions of people who play this games' heads).
It is a good idea, and blizzard should listen to these ideas. But if he wanted to continue the conversation he should have helped elaborate on the original idea from my thread rather then making a new one with the same idea.
Why your thread? You assume he saw your thread. Who cares if people call him a genius? Because he is not? Because you had the same idea? Would you complain if your thread was popular and people called you a genius?
Every passionate fan has had an idea created and ignored only to have someone else create a flashier thread, or a more eye catching title and suddenly getting attention. Being a fan isn't a contest. I am excited if good ideas get attention. I am also disappointed when bad ideas get attention, and that drives me to start posting my own ideas.
Instead of worrying that some other handle on the internet is getting attention, contribute to the conversation. Add and expand on the ideas. Make them better. Be happy the idea has attention.
The problem is that a well-presented "bad" idea can't be trumped by a badly presented better idea. Example: politics... it's not about what you say, but how you say it.
Besides, if you present ready-made patch notes you don't leave much room for conversation. "Hey, here's my idea: X, Y, and Z. What do you think?" gives people more opportunities for feedback than "Hey, I have a dream and here's my awesome shiny Photoshop of it." What are you gonna say? "Well, you know, the pixels are nice, but please stop dreaming?"
I think his points are valid. And I also understand if someone is upset if his work was plagiarized (didn't check though). It's definitely not new, so all the +1's are for the Photoshops.
I agree. Marketing is what it is. Whining about it and saying "but but but MY POST TOO!!!"(not saying that is how Lizardo came across necessarily) just makes it worse though. Now you are adding nothing to the conversation, devaluing your opinions in the eyes of true believers(the people who bought the marketing the moment they opened the post), devalued your opinions to skeptics as well.
Whether a post presents room for discussion or not, a discussion can happen with or without the blessing of the OP. Pretty much how things happen. It is up to the posters to choose to improve upon it. Then the now thinktanked idea can be re-presented. The old one will be forgotten and someone else gets the "credit". For whatever that credit is worth.
It is perfectly possible for a rational mind to ignore the sheep +1'ing for pretty pictures and to discuss the contents, as infuriating as it can be to actively participate in a thread where rationality of many has been turned off.
Thanks, I'll be sure to copy the disclaimer on any future posts I make.
Some nice ideas and great work on the screenshots as usual.
I draw and build props, so I may be a little more easily agitated then others when someone re-markets property or ideas. I've been burned before, and obviously this doesn't really count since there is no money earned from any of this. But it still affects me.
I'm also a little surprised that the OP never really comments any further in his posts.
Hey there,
I actually just read your post today for the first time after reading your comments, we did have some pretty similar ideas. Great minds think alike I guess :). I'm sure many of the things I've posted have been mentioned before by someone, I didn't try to take anyone else's ideas to try to steal the credit for them. As for making them into a neat presentable package, I'm currently employed as a marketer and web designer so I deal with lots of writing/designing on a regular basis and I'm used to presenting ideas in such a fashion.
I also happen to be very passionate when it comes to the Diablo series, MMO's, and other games for that matter, I actually wanted to make it my career growing up but never had the opportunity. I literally have binders filled with ideas, many for already existing games. I've tried to use official game forums before to showcase ideas i've had but they don't seem to work as well when you can't combine graphics and writing to express them, so this is why I chose instead to use the forums here to express my ideas.
I've got many other ideas that I'm going to be presenting here on the the forums, some that probably won't be taken as positively as my last one's but I still want to share them to at least get some discussion going. Many of these are probably going to be one's that may have been already mentioned some where by some one, it's just the probability of suggesting things with a game this popular.