Kripp and Alkaizer talk about Diablo 3

  • #211
    Quote from RMrulz

    It's just that I'm on something of a personal crusade to stamp out the use of the word "retard" as an insult, because it can be quite offensive to people who actually suffer from mental retardation (or those who care for them).

    Fair enough, and you're right.

    Sometimes the passion takes over reason :(
  • #212
    Quote from rodrigj

    So no, for me, they were only reasonable in managing their budget and let down the people that was expecting a real follow-up of Diablo 2.
    One little detail about this : they even were not able to make random class item with correct stats... Really a pity...

    I don't dislike the game, and will probably play any extension of it, but the 3 in the name is really misguiding : it's just another hack'n slash in the World of Diablo. (IMO)


    TBH that make it sound you were one of the people hoping for Diablo 2:HD rather than Diablo 3.

    As others have said games and genre evolve or die out, look at point and click adventures, all but dead, then along comes Telltale Games with The Walking Dead and proves there is an audience for the genre if the genre adapts changes with the times. Diablo 3 is aimed at the people that prefer an Arpg to an aRPG.
  • #213
    What D3 still needs is:

    - the general itemization fixes (less drops, but better affixes etc) - planned pre-expansion
    - gameplay-changing unique items - planned pre-expansion
    - complete mini-dungeon overhaul with harder unique bosses/farming targets
    - the Mystic for enchants and adding/manipulating/rerolling single stats - likely in the first expansion
    - adding sockets to items via the Smith - likely in the first expansion

    And that's basically it for me. No need an overcomplicated system like PoE that has a clumsy gameplay, old graphics, and no lore or unique characters like Cain. ^^
  • #214
    Was hard to keep up with all the posts here, they are exploding like always in PoE vs D3 debate.

    I completely agree with Zero(pS). He seems to be mature enough to know what a real debate is.

    I'm active player in both of those games. I'v spent like 600hours on Diablo 3 now and about same in Path of Exile.... Both games are awesome and worth trying. However, after those 600 hours i get little bored of PoE.

    You all say how great the skill system is. Besides it was taken from Final Fantasy series, it is not "complex" at all. Right now the only possible builds in PoE end game are:

    - Lighting Arrow
    - Rain of Arrows
    - Minions / dual totem
    - Freezing Pulse
    - Ethereal Knives
    - Leap slam / Ground Slam

    Those are most efficient and only builds that works in high end game of Path of Exile. Ofcourse you can get more of them, but most of the so called builds (like elemental cleave) will stop progressing at lvl 77 maps due to poe mechanics.
    This is the skill build, passive tree looks almost same for all of those builds.

    It is about 260% hp nodes, some armor or Evasion to armor, and some elemental damage or more defence.

    Basically in every build (beside Chaos Inn, but then you just switch hp nodes to ES nodes) you fallow the HP nodes road.

    On my Freeze Pulse or Minion /Totem heroes i can buy like 10-15 regrets and make them EK / RoA / LA. Path of Exile start to boring me because of this..

    Now look at Diablo 3. You got:

    - Barbarian (WW/Tornado; Tank build; Throwing build; HoA build)
    - DH (old natalies builds / new natalies builds)
    - Monk (crazy amount of possibilites since buff)
    - WD (0s dog, acid, fire, DOT builds)
    - Wizard (cm/archon/meteor)

    And each of this class DIFFERS drasticly. It's not like i can buy ONE gear and make all of my character use it and be powerfull like in POE. In PoE u can use one set of equipment for all characters changing skill gems only and socket colors. There are just few items that you can swap depending on build (like some uniques for FP or RoA / LA).

    PoE seems to be more complex. But in the end it's just more RNG based game where you have to play even more than D3 to get something good. Good items goes for 18-30 exalts in PoE. Time you spend to drop those exalts is equal to farming 1-2 billions in Diablo 3.

    I love both games but i would chose Diablo 3 every single day of a year. Because of how smooth and fun it feels to smash thru creeps in this game...
    Diablo 3 Progress (clearing all content, doing bosses with 5 stacks, no exploits no bug abusement, solo only)
    Softcore (Barbarian) (Wizzard):
    All clear.
    Hardcore (Witch Doctor):
    King Leoric Inferno - dead Butcher Inferno - dead
  • #215
    Quote from Diablofan0815

    What D3 still needs is:

    - the general itemization fixes (less drops, but better affixes etc) - planned pre-expansion
    - gameplay-changing unique items - planned pre-expansion
    - complete mini-dungeon overhaul with harder unique bosses/farming targets
    - the Mystic for enchants and adding/manipulating/rerolling single stats - likely in the first expansion
    - adding sockets to items via the Smith - likely in the first expansion

    And that's basically it for me. No need an overcomplicated system like PoE that has a clumsy gameplay, old graphics, and no lore or unique characters like Cain. ^^


    I agree... but not with the "old graphics" part, its not really that bad ;)
    And last i checked Blizzard killed Cain^^

    Quote from Silvach
    Right now the only possible builds in PoE end game are:

    - Lighting Arrow
    - Rain of Arrows
    - Minions / dual totem
    - Freezing Pulse
    - Ethereal Knives
    - Leap slam / Ground Slam


    Ehmm no :)
    There are many more possibilities...
    I for example play a LMP Fireball / Firetrap / Spectre mix...and i close in on 80, doing pretty well.

    Just because you dont cut thue the Mobs like Butter, doesnt mean the Builds doesnt work.
    Use a little imagination and you can make everything work ;)
  • #216
    Quote from Xenocow

    Quote from Diablofan0815

    What D3 still needs is:

    - the general itemization fixes (less drops, but better affixes etc) - planned pre-expansion
    - gameplay-changing unique items - planned pre-expansion
    - complete mini-dungeon overhaul with harder unique bosses/farming targets
    - the Mystic for enchants and adding/manipulating/rerolling single stats - likely in the first expansion
    - adding sockets to items via the Smith - likely in the first expansion

    And that's basically it for me. No need an overcomplicated system like PoE that has a clumsy gameplay, old graphics, and no lore or unique characters like Cain. ^^


    I agree... but not with the "old graphics" part, its not really that bad ;)
    And last i checked Blizzard killed Cain^^

    Quote from Silvach
    Right now the only possible builds in PoE end game are:

    - Lighting Arrow
    - Rain of Arrows
    - Minions / dual totem
    - Freezing Pulse
    - Ethereal Knives
    - Leap slam / Ground Slam


    Ehmm no :)
    There are many more possibilities...
    I for example play a LMP Fireball / Firetrap / Spectre mix...and i close in on 80, doing pretty well.

    Just because you dont cut thue the Mobs like Butter, doesnt mean the Builds doesnt work.
    Use a little imagination and you can make everything work ;)


    Sorry I was talking about HC, because this is the only way to play PoE for me :P

    Yes in softcore you got more possibilites, but reffering to the topic, Alkaizer and Kripp both plays only HC in PoE so they got only one way to build their characters - the HP nodes way. And they say how Diablo 3 "aint complex"
    Diablo 3 Progress (clearing all content, doing bosses with 5 stacks, no exploits no bug abusement, solo only)
    Softcore (Barbarian) (Wizzard):
    All clear.
    Hardcore (Witch Doctor):
    King Leoric Inferno - dead Butcher Inferno - dead
  • #217
    Quote from Silvach

    I'm active player in both of those games. I'v spent like 600hours on Diablo 3 now and about same in Path of Exile.... Both games are awesome and worth trying. However, after those 600 hours i get little bored of PoE.

    Good to see an opinion from someone very informed. I don't have nearly that many hours on either D3 (450~) or PoE (20~).

    You all say how great the skill system is. Besides it was taken from Final Fantasy series, it is not "complex" at all. Right now the only possible builds in PoE end game are:

    It's noteworthy what was said a while ago in this same thread (I think it was ruksak).

    Everything in Diablo 3 is useable, you can definitely play a DH with Entangling Shot instead of Hungering Arrow, you can play a Barbarian with Seismic Slam instead of HotA Smash, the dealbreaker for people is that it's less efficient, while in PoE not making a proper passive/skill build will make your character literally (!) useless.
  • #218
    That's something that bugs me about a lot of D3 players. They outright ignore or slate a vast majority of builds because they're inefficient. While I can understand that efficiency is a good thing in a game where the faster you kill, the more you loot, the more you profit, I think there's a whole massive side of game fun that's being ignored.

    I enjoy playing around with different builds, and to hell with efficiency most of the time. As I've said many times before in different threads, I'd rather enjoy playing the hours I spend getting Paragon levels rather than be pulling teeth all the way to 100.

    It saddens me to hear that PoE is so very difficult to build decent characters, especially since I've not started playing yet. It sounds like you've almost got to read up a ton of guides or follow a cookie cutter build just to build a character that survives. Doesn't sound much fun if trial and error is going to lead to so much failure unless you plan and research without even playing the game :(

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, I just don't want to waste 100 hours building useless characters. Why copy someone else all the way when it's supposed to be an RPG of infinite possibilities?
    "It takes a man with real heart...to make beauty out of the stuff that makes us weep." - Clive Barker
  • #219
    Quote from rodrigj

    Sorry, but just NO! And calling haters people who didn't like the decisions done on D3, successor of D2, seems to make you just an hater of haters... :hehe:

    I don't like some decisions done on D3 either. Hell, I'll bash them to inifinity if you ask me. So that make me a hater? Hell, no.

    Disagreeing with design decisions does not make someone a hater (understanding my posts might require some basic text interpretation). Believing in fallacies and elitist comments spread by "hardcore" players, and then proceeding to make 100 posts with nothing but "fuck you ActiBlizzard, you just made the RMAH to rip us all off" and the sort, in a very very "angry mob" manner, does!

    This was stated at some point, I don't remember exactly, a previous member of the D2 team if I remember correctly, that Jay Wilson didn't like really the gameplay of D2.

    Yeah, and so did a lot of D2 fans - including some in this own thread, with very good reasons. This "rose tinted glasses" discussion has been beaten to death, I'm not gonna derail this thread with it.

    So they changed it, but for me, with only one conscient DECISION : making money...

    Another clear cut example of the hysteria I was talking about. Even if they made such decision only to make money, no amount of deliberation and insight will allow us to conclude this type of comment: "they added the AH to RIP EVERYONE OFF" or "they changed 'x' system to appeal ONLY to casuals". Moar conspiracies!!!

    One little detail about this : they even were not able to make random class item with correct stats... Really a pity...

    Oh, look. Another one of those "myths" I mention a lot. Correct stats? What's that? "OH NOES IF MY QUIVER HAS STRENGHT IT'S USELESS". No, it is NOT useless! It's just not optimal, or what people personally want or view as good. It's a result of RNG, welcome to Diablo 101.I sometimes imagine all this "feedback" if D2 launched in such an era, that would be amusing.

    My pet WD only worked before the patch (both the Legendary changes and Pet Force Armor) because it had a ton of "secondary" Dexterity rolls, on multiple items. Including a 190 Dex roll on its "class specific" Mojo. "OH BUT YOUR ITEMS WERE CRAP THEN". Not really (I could still do Act 2 pre-nerf with pets), I still had Vit/Int/Crit on gear pieces.

    I could have Magic Find, Pickup Radius, Life/Sec, Gold Find, Maximum Mana, Mana Regen, Indestructible, Socket; and yet I chose Dexterity, because 20%~ (iirc) dodge was a big deal to me.

    I don't dislike the game, and will probably play any extension of it, but the 3 in the name is really misguiding : it's just another hack'n slash in the World of Diablo. (IMO)

    Thank God Blizzard isn't stuck in the past as are many of its fans. They seek to evolve its franchises, invent the new trends, which will be used in the future. They will probably fail every now and then, which is why you see them admitting mistakes and changing things back. But they definitely haven't failed at everything like some make it sound.

    Because games like Hellgate had everything you guys praise about Diablo 2 (stats, skill trees, randomization) and yet it was a massive failure. Many great franchises get stuck in the past for so long, they end up dying (C&C, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam, Age of Empires) out of sheer inanity.

    For me Diablo 3 is now the realm of botters and auctioners : where are the players?

    3k+ people playing public games alone, at a weak "pre patch" period, and in the middle of the afternoon. Almost 2k on Act 3 alone. I can find a match in less than 10 seconds, on multiple Monster Powers.

    The players who are having fun are all there.

    Quote from Laevus

    It saddens me to hear that PoE is so very difficult to build decent characters, especially since I've not started playing yet. It sounds like you've almost got to read up a ton of guides or follow a cookie cutter build just to build a character that survives. Doesn't sound much fun if trial and error is going to lead to so much failure unless you plan and research without even playing the game :(

    It appears so.

    I wouldn't be able to properly tell, though. Having invested so little time in it.
  • #220
    Quote from Laevus

    That's something that bugs me about a lot of D3 players. They outright ignore or slate a vast majority of builds because they're inefficient. While I can understand that efficiency is a good thing in a game where the faster you kill, the more you loot, the more you profit, I think there's a whole massive side of game fun that's being ignored.

    I enjoy playing around with different builds, and to hell with efficiency most of the time. As I've said many times before in different threads, I'd rather enjoy playing the hours I spend getting Paragon levels rather than be pulling teeth all the way to 100.

    It saddens me to hear that PoE is so very difficult to build decent characters, especially since I've not started playing yet. It sounds like you've almost got to read up a ton of guides or follow a cookie cutter build just to build a character that survives. Doesn't sound much fun if trial and error is going to lead to so much failure unless you plan and research without even playing the game :(

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, I just don't want to waste 100 hours building useless characters. Why copy someone else all the way when it's supposed to be an RPG of infinite possibilities?


    In my opinion it the lack of builds isn't a problem with D3 players (or PoE players for that matter). The piss poor itemization of both games it to blame. When 99.999999% of the items that drop are absolute junk it necessitates you becoming the most efficient you can be which means unfortunately dropping out the builds that allow you to kill/move quickly.

    We'd see a lot more builds open up if the developers weren't trying to balance these games to have real world economies based around some gamers ideals that games should now be able to entertain me for 10+ hours a day, every day for the next year.
  • #221
    Quote from Zero(pS)
    Thank God Blizzard isn't stuck in the past as are many of its fans. They seek to evolve its franchises, invent the new trends, which will be used in the future. They will probably fail every now and then, which is why you see them admitting mistakes and changing things back. But they definitely haven't failed at everything like some make it sound.


    People keep claiming that...i just wonder, what exactly is so "evolutionarily" ?
    All i see is Content designed for Generation Farmville...you know, those Casuals who dont really want to put some Effort/Time into the Game, Char Progression, tricky Boss Encounters, Theorycrafting etc

    Its no Secret that Blizzard tries to appeal to those masses, but lets not forget who brought Blizzard where they are right now.
    Its been the dedicated Bunch from the past you talk about.

    In the end of 2009 the whole Company took a 180° Turn, and designed more and more Casual friendly Stuff.
    The last REAL HARD encounter (across all Games) they designed were Sunwell in World of Warcraft. Muru and such.
  • #222
    Quote from Zero(pS)


    It's noteworthy what was said a while ago in this same thread (I think it was ruksak).

    Everything in Diablo 3 is useable, you can definitely play a DH with Entangling Shot instead of Hungering Arrow, you can play a Barbarian with Seismic Slam instead of HotA Smash, the dealbreaker for people is that it's less efficient, while in PoE not making a proper passive/skill build will make your character literally (!) useless.


    That must've been someone else. I can't take credit for it, but I wholeheartedly agree.

    I had a really fun X-Palm/SSS build for my Monk back a long time ago when my Monk was at like 55k unbuffed. It was even tuned to require specific gear that had spirit regen on dual wield weapons and the helm to synergize with Chant of Resonance.

    As it was, the standard FoT build was so much more efficient (like 300%) I finally relented and gave up my original build. Now that my DPS is so much higher (approx 150k unbuffed) I would like to try my old build again, but I lack the Spirit regen gear to do so.

    I refuse to spend any more gold until the itemization patch, which is going to be a while off. So I'm kinda stuck.

    Point being, yes, there are WAY more builds than people are willing to admit. These builds just aren't as efficient, sometimes woefully so. Reminds me of people saying the only farming area is Act 3, when this simply isn't true.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #223
    Quote from Xenocow

    Quote from Zero(pS)
    Thank God Blizzard isn't stuck in the past as are many of its fans. They seek to evolve its franchises, invent the new trends, which will be used in the future. They will probably fail every now and then, which is why you see them admitting mistakes and changing things back. But they definitely haven't failed at everything like some make it sound.


    People keep claiming that...i just wonder, what exactly is so "evolutionarily" ?
    All i see is Content designed for Generation Farmville...you know, those Casuals who dont really want to put some Effort/Time into the Game, Char Progression, tricky Boss Encounters, Theorycrafting etc

    Its no Secret that Blizzard tries to appeal to those masses, but lets not forget who brought Blizzard where they are right now.
    Its been the dedicated Bunch from the past you talk about.

    In the end of 2009 the whole Company took a 180° Turn, and designed more and more Casual friendly Stuff.
    The last REAL HARD encounter (across all Games) they designed were Sunwell in World of Warcraft. Muru and such.


    I don't get why people try to use "hardcore" in the same sentence when overall talking about ARPGs. They are nothing more than giant gear checks wrapped around a casino/RNG system. It is so hardcore to sit back and kill mobs all day long in hopes that you may, just may roll the right numbers ....
  • #224
    Quote from Laevus

    That's something that bugs me about a lot of D3 players. They outright ignore or slate a vast majority of builds because they're inefficient. While I can understand that efficiency is a good thing in a game where the faster you kill, the more you loot, the more you profit, I think there's a whole massive side of game fun that's being ignored.

    I enjoy playing around with different builds, and to hell with efficiency most of the time. As I've said many times before in different threads, I'd rather enjoy playing the hours I spend getting Paragon levels rather than be pulling teeth all the way to 100.

    It saddens me to hear that PoE is so very difficult to build decent characters, especially since I've not started playing yet. It sounds like you've almost got to read up a ton of guides or follow a cookie cutter build just to build a character that survives. Doesn't sound much fun if trial and error is going to lead to so much failure unless you plan and research without even playing the game :(

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, I just don't want to waste 100 hours building useless characters. Why copy someone else all the way when it's supposed to be an RPG of infinite possibilities?


    Well it depends if you play on softcore or hardcore.

    On hardcore, you pay for your mistakes with your character and items. On sofctore you pay with experience loss and just hitting the wall over and over again.

    Yes, vast majority of builds in PoE are the same. Only difference is about few nodes that change some aspects of character (like blood magic / ci / vaal pact ). The game itself is about grinding the hell out of you to level up skills which gets 10% of your experience (to compare, to lvl up spell on ~~lvl 50, where you have to get 9 mln exp for level, you need to gain about 23mln exp to level a single skill).

    On other hand, poe is still in progress. They add new uniques every week and spells every 2-3 weeks. That is ok, but it still does NOT change the way you build your PASSIVE skills, which is so "OH and AH about" in PoE. You still need about 6k hp to survive melee big physical hit on lvl77 maps due to how armor mechanic works in PoE (the bigger the hit is the less you reduce), which ends up on having MOST of your nodes in HP% and the stats to get it.

    I'm not a newb who just got into PoE. I spend allot of time playing it. I made my own builds and payed a price when hitting lvl~~60-70 (melee builds, which are NOT viable right now). I rolled one of those marked by me earlier roles and keep up having "fun".

    In PoE you got this BIG passive tree, but this is just a BIG lie.

    I even made some testing. I ran Templar, did not get almost any "crucial" nodes, just some Elemental Damage overall and all HP nodes i could till lvl 60. Then i switched skills and i was doing great as RoA / Freezing Pulse / Ground Slam.

    All of those SO DIFFERENT builds were doing JUST FINE on SAME passive skill build.

    edit: with this on lvl 60 you can build almost everything BUT etheral knives (its pure physical)

    http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgUBAnEEswVbDH0QfxRNFm8aOCkuMoky0TrhPC1FR0bXTP9N41BQVElVxlfiWGNdxl8_YG1irGebd-N35Xq4fIODOIjxi4yMz49GkFWdgKFtogCmV6cIp4SpbqxZrj6uk69stQS18rc-uJO53cWKxp7GrsbYzfrPZdDQ1I_Wndrd3fPhc-dS52PsOO0g7w7wH_Iv8kX2SP4K_o8=
    Diablo 3 Progress (clearing all content, doing bosses with 5 stacks, no exploits no bug abusement, solo only)
    Softcore (Barbarian) (Wizzard):
    All clear.
    Hardcore (Witch Doctor):
    King Leoric Inferno - dead Butcher Inferno - dead
  • #225
    Quote from Xenocow

    Its no Secret that Blizzard tries to appeal to those masses, but lets not forget who brought Blizzard where they are right now.
    Its been the dedicated Bunch from the past you talk about.

    In the end of 2009 the whole Company took a 180° Turn, and designed more and more Casual friendly Stuff.
    The last REAL HARD encounter (across all Games) they designed were Sunwell in World of Warcraft. Muru and such.


    If it's not secret you could perhaps elaborate a bit? The same people before 2009 are still in Blizzard, bar the North bunch that departed long ago. Only difference now is old guys are promoted to oversee the entire projects instead of being "lead this" and "lead that".

    Also there have been plenty of inhumanly hard bosses in WoW since Muru. Mimiron HM, Yogg0, LK HM, Ragnaros HM, Sha HM... the current boss Lei Shen took 13 days to beat. By today's standards where guilds can do 500+ attempts in less than a week this is enormous. Also it's been more than a month and only 5 guilds have beat him. That's 125 players out of 10 million. I can't even begin to understand what you consider hard.

    Oh and the HM only boss is still not down.

    Oh and Ghostcrawler designed the Sunwell.
  • #226
    Quote from Xenocow

    Quote from Zero(pS)
    Thank God Blizzard isn't stuck in the past as are many of its fans. They seek to evolve its franchises, invent the new trends, which will be used in the future. They will probably fail every now and then, which is why you see them admitting mistakes and changing things back. But they definitely haven't failed at everything like some make it sound.


    People keep claiming that...i just wonder, what exactly is so "evolutionarily" ?
    All i see is Content designed for Generation Farmville...you know, those Casuals who dont really want to put some Effort/Time into the Game, Char Progression, tricky Boss Encounters, Theorycrafting etc


    The idea that you need to spend hours theorycrafting to enjoy a game is complete propaganda.

    I never did theorycrafting to beat Super Mario Brothers. I didn't need theorycrafting to beat any Final Fantasy game. I didn't need to theorycraft to spend umpteen hours enjoying the living shit out of Goldeneye on the N64. Metroid and Zelda were amazing games that never required theorycrafting. I played Diablo 1 without theorycrafting. The list goes on and on and isn't limited to PC or console games. Monopoly is one of the most popular board games ever.... no need to theorycraft to play Monopoly.

    People have jobs, spouses, kids... sometimes even social lives. Lord knows I don't, but some do. The idea of a game is that it's a pursuit for your free time. The more the time commitment goes up the less people who can play the game, and frankly that's what I think the PoE crowd loves about PoE. It's an elitist atmosphere where people can spit down from their ivory towers at the filthy casuals who don't want to sit around making Excel sheets all day long and just want to kill some monsters. That's why people get hostile in threads like this - just because we don't want to theorycraft doesn't mean we're dummies. It just means we're not interested in being semi-professional gamers.

    To dismiss a game because it doesn't require enough out-of-game research is fucktarded. It defies the general idea of a game. Games are for fun. The mere idea of theorycrafting is obviously not fun to people so forcing it into games defies any sort of logic.

    Every game doesn't have to be a fuckin eSport.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #227
    Quote from shaggy

    The idea that you need to spend hours theorycrafting to enjoy a game is complete propaganda.

    I never did theorycrafting to beat Super Mario Brothers. I didn't need theorycrafting to beat any Final Fantasy game. I didn't need to theorycraft to spend umpteen hours enjoying the living shit out of Goldeneye on the N64. Metroid and Zelda were amazing games that never required theorycrafting. I played Diablo 1 without theorycrafting. The list goes on and on and isn't limited to PC or console games. Monopoly is one of the most popular board games ever.... no need to theorycraft to play Monopoly.

    People have jobs, spouses, kids... sometimes even social lives. Lord knows I don't, but some do. The idea of a game is that it's a pursuit for your free time. The more the time commitment goes up the less people who can play the game, and frankly that's what I think the PoE crowd loves about PoE. It's an elitist atmosphere where people can spit down from their ivory towers at the filthy casuals who don't want to sit around making Excel sheets all day long and just want to kill some monsters. That's why people get hostile in threads like this - just because we don't want to theorycraft doesn't mean we're dummies. It just means we're not interested in being semi-professional gamers.

    To dismiss a game because it doesn't require enough out-of-game research is fucktarded. It defies the general idea of a game. Games are for fun. The mere idea of theorycrafting is obviously not fun to people so forcing it into games defies any sort of logic.

    Every game doesn't have to be a fuckin eSport.


    Not to mention PoE does NOT require so much theorycrafting as some guys says. It's just few (yes, FEW) formulas that need to be moemorized if you want to go "full hardcore Theorycrafter" in PoE. Like armor reduce / phys damage vs aspd... Preffixes and Suffixes are listed on the official webpage, nothing to "theorycraft about".

    Further, you can't theorycraft so deeply about PoE because the actual numbers behind the mobs are not known (like damage / armor / hp / resists), and not be known by allot of time.

    The poeple who claim other are just new to PoE or never played it..
    Diablo 3 Progress (clearing all content, doing bosses with 5 stacks, no exploits no bug abusement, solo only)
    Softcore (Barbarian) (Wizzard):
    All clear.
    Hardcore (Witch Doctor):
    King Leoric Inferno - dead Butcher Inferno - dead
  • #228
    @Zero(ps)

    Yeah, and so did a lot of D2 fans - including some in this own thread, with very good reasons. This "rose tinted glasses" discussion has been beaten to death, I'm not gonna derail this thread with it.


    Sorry, I don't come here so often : too much people with blindfold for my liking...

    Another clear cut example of the hysteria I was talking about. Even if they made such decision only to make money, no amount of deliberation and insight will allow us to conclude this type of comment: "they added the AH to RIP EVERYONE OFF" or "they changed 'x' system to appeal ONLY to casuals". Moar conspiracies!!!


    Sorry, I work now since 29 years, and believe me, the goal of any companies, is to make money : no more, no less... They have to balance the satisfaction of their customers and their profit... It's how a bussiness work, and Blizzard and their shareholders are in bussiness... About the customer satisfaction, I'm not satisfy, and so, for me, they failed... If you're really happy with their PRODUCT, kudo to you! I'm not jealous. :)

    Oh, look. Another one of those "myths" I mention a lot. Correct stats? What's that? "OH NOES IF MY QUIVER HAS STRENGHT IT'S USELESS". No, it is NOT useless! It's just not optimal, or what people personally want or view as good. It's a result of RNG, welcome to Diablo 101.I sometimes imagine all this "feedback" if D2 launched in such an era, that would be amusing.


    Just no again, when you farm 5 level 61+ barbarian belts and all of them have just int and other useless stats at this level of the game : it's a failure and go directly to the vendor. I understand the concept of random on common items, but in class item, sorry no... They already corrected this on most set, if I remember correctly, as I didn't found so much pieces of them...

    My pet WD only worked before the patch (both the Legendary changes and Pet Force Armor) because it had a ton of "secondary" Dexterity rolls, on multiple items. Including a 190 Dex roll on its "class specific" Mojo. "OH BUT YOUR ITEMS WERE CRAP THEN". Not really (I could still do Act 2 pre-nerf with pets), I still had Vit/Int/Crit on gear pieces.
    I could have Magic Find, Pickup Radius, Life/Sec, Gold Find, Maximum Mana, Mana Regen, Indestructible, Socket; and yet I chose Dexterity, because 20%~ (iirc) dodge was a big deal to me.


    I understand, but no, I found mainly barbarian belts with useless MAIN stats and useless secondary too... This is not so complicated to correct, and that problem was already in D2... If they have done their class correctly, this shouldn't happen so often... (random is random, but the unique overhaul has already proven that they could do it...if they wanted...)

    Thank God Blizzard isn't stuck in the past as are many of its fans. They seek to evolve its franchises, invent the new trends, which will be used in the future. They will probably fail every now and then, which is why you see them admitting mistakes and changing things back. But they definitely haven't failed at everything like some make it sound.

    Because games like Hellgate had everything you guys praise about Diablo 2 (stats, skill trees, randomization) and yet it was a massive failure. Many great franchises get stuck in the past for so long, they end up dying (C&C, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam, Age of Empires) out of sheer inanity.


    Talking about blindfold... All I said it's that they removed all stats decisions of the game and replaced it by itemization : their words, not mine... We know how HARD they failed their itemizations : 3 major hoverauls, and it will problably change again in a "future?" extension (my guess, heh)
    Sure now D3 is a better game than at the launch, but personnaly, I will await the next itemization patch before attempting to stuff my barbarian for MP2/3 at least...


    3k+ people playing public games alone, at a weak "pre patch" period, and in the middle of the afternoon. Almost 2k on Act 3 alone. I can find a match in less than 10 seconds, on multiple Monster Powers.
    The players who are having fun are all there.



    You remark makes me smile (sadly) : I play only with friends, but in my list of 20+ there is only 3 remaining : playing 24/24 hours 7 days per week... I don't think they really play the "game" since 2-3 monthes now.
    And sure the next pach incinting to group for more xp easier is just a comspiracy of my imagination : they do this just for the fun...

    I'm sorry that we will never agree on any point, but that's life! :)

    Have fun anyway.

    JPR out!
  • #229
    I didnt read the whole 11 pages.but these two guys do have a point. Vids saying you will die in inferno before release was Appealing to me.

    I remember when i first got to act 3 on inferno playing my DH pre inferno nerf...i think i spent like 1m out of my 4m on a cc,cd Amulet to bridge the gap. Soon as that inferno nerf hit i killed Diablo like i was playing Hell. It does seem the game has turned casual and monster power has not really added anything to the game.

    The last time i actually got scared/challenged was when ubers first hit and that magical MP7 min 4 group to make it worth the drops for hellfire.

    They really need to add a hard zone like the secret cow level in D2 where you could get like 30 cows after you if you wasnt carfull..thats why it was fun because of the challenge.

    Now im Paragon 100 (a matter of hours) they are boosting more XP for the casuals to reach 100. If it wasnt easy enough with a WW Barb.

    The only thing left to do is farm items and craft items. Reroll an alt Barb? Yay....
  • #230
    Quote from AsHeavenIsWide

    I didnt read the whole 11 pages.but these two guys do have a point. Vids saying you will die in inferno before release was Appealing to me.

    I remember when i first got to act 3 on inferno playing my DH pre inferno nerf...i think i spent like 1m out of my 4m on a cc,cd Amulet to bridge the gap. Soon as that inferno nerf hit i killed Diablo like i was playing Hell. It does seem the game has turned casual and monster power has not really added anything to the game.

    The last time i actually got scared/challenged was when ubers first hit and that magical MP7 min 4 group to make it worth the drops for hellfire.

    They really need to add a hard zone like the secret cow level in D2 where you could get like 30 cows after you if you wasnt carfull..thats why it was fun because of the challenge.

    Now im Paragon 100 (a matter of hours) they are boosting more XP for the casuals to reach 100. If it wasnt easy enough with a WW Barb.

    The only thing left to do is farm items and craft items. Reroll an alt Barb? Yay....


    Ummm ... what? D2 cow level was never hard and you can't do Paragon leveling in a matter of hours.
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