Kripp and Alkaizer talk about Diablo 3

  • #293
    Quote from Zero(pS)


    Just because a franchise doesn't keep all of its old systems, doesn't take away its credit.

    Thank God the developers are different. As I said before, the D1/D2 developer quit to make his own "Diablo clone" game, it had all these systems people want so desperately, and it was a massive failure


    Developers*. Blizzard North is gone. Diablo 3 might as well have been made by ID Software or EA. The name was kept entirely for brand recognition only. If it wasn't named Diablo 3 it would still be a very flawed game. I know you've admitted as much. The thing I'm laughing at lately is the jumping on the Blizzard bandwagon with why the game sucks. Jay Wilson admits the auction house was a mistake. Next on the list is near zero social aspect (Bnet1 style > Bnet2 style, chat system not up to SC2/WoW par), lack of end game still (Thank Kripp for Paragon levels), lack of any form of public event (PoE has race ladders and they can be extremely fun), and lack of replayability (ladders, build system, etc).

    I don't understand why people are offended at what Kripp / other guy said. You didn't develop the game. They call it easy right? Well Kripp is 1 of 2 people (the other being Krippi who was with him) that beat the game pre-nerf on Hardcore Inferno. So pretty much things that are easy to them are a nightmare for others. This guy wins pretty much every race he enters in PoE which puts everyone on the same level (1 hour, 3 hour, etc set playing time starting from complete scratch with no advantages given to anyone). I know you dismiss that certain players are way above the norm but when they win near 100% of the races (Kripp crushing ~2000 to 5000 people over and over) and always finish top (Reckful just had Rank 1 on 2 different classes in WoW again for instance) I guess it could all be luck. I'm still waiting on my turn at a good dice roll :-)
    Path of Exile - CleavieWonder (Elemental Cleave)
  • #294
    Would this thread even have been created if these two were pro D3? I understand its all the rave to be ragging on D3 and repeating ad nauseum what everyone has said already, but I get the idea that everyone would have conveniently ignored them if they were discussing D3 in a better light. I still dont get what the big deal is with them and it isnt because i dont understand online games, online friends, competition, etc. Is it just because they put the most time in to reach end game before everyone else and therefore it makes them some sort of authority on this game? Would any of you follow my stream given my prior "life story" in this thread? I highly doubt it. Im not trying to contribute to any flaming of these guys (theyre making a living, more power to them, gaming4serious just isnt for me), but I just dont understand what makes them so much more important than the rest of us. Genuinely curious is all.

    The only challenge i run into in D3 is TIME. I just dont have the time to put into it to have all the top gear or have all paragon 100s and such. To me thats the hardest part of the game by far. The game itself could be played by a monkey, not to say I dont enjoy it. I find it to be great relief to come home from work and just smash my way through a few caves like a maniac before bed. But I refuse to believe there to be any real skill involved in anything after all the games ive played. I play a lot of first person shooters (No, not that shit we call COD or Halo) and definitely understand the skill involved in games like that. The more you play, the better you get at those games. In D3, I havent really grown any sort of skill, ive just grown a better inventory. And even then, a lot of you would probably laugh your asses off at my lone Monk who is only at Plvl25 or so. And its cool, every game has a crowd like that, it doesnt bother me much.

    I would just like to know what causes a thread like this to be created. They have not added anything NEW to be discussed, it just seems like its the fact they said it. It reminds me of kids in school who must hear out the popular kid about a new trend before they pick up said trend. Even though it was a trend BEFORE that cool kid said anything about it.

    Edit: For the record i dont know these guys. Ive never seen a single stream, video, etc. I just see them mentioned a lot.
  • #295
    Quote from CodeRedLin

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Just because a franchise doesn't keep all of its old systems, doesn't take away its credit.

    Thank God the developers are different. As I said before, the D1/D2 developer quit to make his own "Diablo clone" game, it had all these systems people want so desperately, and it was a massive failure


    Developers*. Blizzard North is gone. Diablo 3 might as well have been made by ID Software or EA. The name was kept entirely for brand recognition only. If it wasn't named Diablo 3 it would still be a very flawed game. I know you've admitted as much. The thing I'm laughing at lately is the jumping on the Blizzard bandwagon with why the game sucks. Jay Wilson admits the auction house was a mistake. Next on the list is near zero social aspect (Bnet1 style > Bnet2 style, chat system not up to SC2/WoW par), lack of end game still (Thank Kripp for Paragon levels), lack of any form of public event (PoE has race ladders and they can be extremely fun), and lack of replayability (ladders, build system, etc).

    I don't understand why people are offended at what Kripp / other guy said. You didn't develop the game. They call it easy right? Well Kripp is 1 of 2 people (the other being Krippi who was with him) that beat the game pre-nerf on Hardcore Inferno. So pretty much things that are easy to them are a nightmare for others. This guy wins pretty much every race he enters in PoE which puts everyone on the same level (1 hour, 3 hour, etc set playing time starting from complete scratch with no advantages given to anyone). I know you dismiss that certain players are way above the norm but when they win near 100% of the races (Kripp crushing ~2000 to 5000 people over and over) and always finish top (Reckful just had Rank 1 on 2 different classes in WoW again for instance) I guess it could all be luck. I'm still waiting on my turn at a good dice roll :-)


    Well one thing im not a kripp/crapp follower but the things he says are right.He has more experience.

    Now if someone better than kripp came along and directly challenged his views then that would be cool.Someone who could crush kripp in gaming.However comments like "Kripp knows nothing" sounds lame from gamers who are still posting on forums about what they should buy with their 300m.

    Now im gonna get a lot of posts about how "We got family,kids and wives to fuck(That had really made me LOL hard) and kripp has time." If you not got time,its not kripp's fault he has.Time is required to play games too.

    Its like inviting someone to a feat of strength and then whining after losing that he had more time to excercise.

    Look im not saying kripp's the best.But i am not at a level to challenge him simply because he has more experience.I have not won every race i have entered in.I have not beat diablo pre-nerf.Kripp has.So he is better.

    However if someone along the same lvl of skill as kripp challenged him it would sound more appropriate rather than giving a hint of jealousy.
    Grinding Gear Games (Company that produced POE): "These are great Ideas, we will use them for sure as they are clearly what the player base is looking for."

    Blizzard: "While we agree that this game needs re-working and that these ideas could help the future of this game, we have no plans to listen to our fan-base at this time."

    http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/Tester_3211/media/Diablo3devs_zpscc5fbac9.jpg.html?state=replace
  • #296
    Quote from CodeRedLin

    Jay Wilson admits the auction house was a mistake.

    I can't really remember what's the exact quote, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't precisely that.

    IIRC, he said the "Auction Houses really hurt the game", in the sense that if you have cheap awesome gear being sold on a regular basis, each and every drop becomes less valuable, and the feeling of getting "good drops" (which a lot of people complain about, but don't realize they've changed this 2/3 times - God I sound like a broken record on this) suffers.

    lack of end game still (Thank Kripp for Paragon levels)

    Again, this is what we've talked about for like 10 pages in this thread alone. The whole idolatry.

    No I will not thank Kripp for Paragon levels. The idea for end-game levels was on the official forums weeks (at least) before he made a video. Did he bring light to the issue? Absolutely YES. Would I thank him for THAT? Hell, yes. Is he the only one responsible for it? Absolutely not, the community is.

    Well Kripp is 1 of 2 people (the other being Krippi who was with him) that beat the game pre-nerf on Hardcore Inferno.

    That's the entitlement and epeen that gives a reason for the whole criticism.

    There was quite a few doubts whether they bought gear with real money (some people at d2jsp might point you to the vestiges), or how they got spoon fed by the rest of the "team"; whether or not he would be able to do it solo (you know, without going Tank + Glass Cannon, with him stacking 1.5k+ LoH/EHP, and Krippi doing all the damage), or how they farmed Treasure Goblins (essentially exploiting checkpoints in the game, which again was discovered by others far more brilliant than him) for a week to get the gear needed.

    Some very popular quotes from back then:

    Quote from Youarefired

    Not everyone goes on these sites or have a stream up to post their progress. There are thousands of people who probably don't even know or care about racing to the end, but have completed this already. They just sit at home playing the game and minding their own business.

    Hell, I didn't even mess around on forums for a while when playing WoW or D2. I just played to play. If someone else got world first and didn't post anything about it, they would of been the kind of person I was back in the good old days.

    Quote from Scrim

    Krippi literally carried the fuck out of him, and he gets NO CREDIT? What the hell.

    Quote from Doorsfan

    I heard this guy reasoning in videos. Everything i know about this person - how he plays - etc. - Just makes me withdrawing from actually congratulating. I honestly don't think he deserves a Grats nor recognition. He's a tool at best - Being carried and fed gear - Just to go and trash-talk people from an ivory tower where he talks about he doesn't understand Blizzards choices when he sits on his mountain of gear.

    Quote from F8L_Fool

    All Kripparrian did was get fed gear by Krippi and the rest of No Life, then proceed to bad mouth every Barbarian on his stream if they couldn't full clear inferno as well. Then he goes and dies in HC multiple times just to get power leveled by his buddies over and over.

    This guy deserves credit alright, for being the biggest troll in all of Diablo 3.

    All credit goes to Krippi and the other unknowns within No Life that literally handed this guy his gear and characters, then proceeded to carry him through the content.

    Anyways, let's not go there. I'm happy to see posts from guys like Kaoskadosk and SexyShane. If 10% of the people who see this thread change their hearts and stop blindly following the angry-mob mentality, the whole discussion has fulfilled its purpose.

    I know you dismiss that certain players are way above the norm

    We absolutely don't. I can link to a few dozen videos from him where he provides some top-notch amazing information. He is definitely above the average gamer, definitely above me and many others.
    /watch?v=0YZd680H5EE /watch?v=33UDzGZTHPI /watch?v=GtAreSOCyDw /watch?v=sxoCjzETlyU /watch?v=1iXSpDeVsO4 Does that make him a God and we should all agree with everything he says? Not really. Which is the point some of us have been trying to make here.
  • #297
    I'm sure there are at least a dozen "top notch" players on our forums. Jaetch being a great example. Don't want to leave out the rest but I'm occupied slightly at the moment. There are absolutely, definitely a lot of great players in our forums, on par or even maybe above Kripparian. How can they be above? Attitude. :)
  • #298
    Thing is... you dont need to be "top notch" to beat the game...
    All you need is crazy gear, and you can faceroll the Content all you like.
    The real Pro's faceroll the Content in Blues ;)

    I've also farmed the shit outta Act3/4 Inferno before 1.02 hit the Servers, am i special too now?

    About Kripp... i can respect his opinion, while i dont always share it.
    However, he is indeed a very good player with fast learning skills about the gamemechanics etc...
    Thats not because he is a God, thats because he is experienced.

    I've been playing Videogames for 30 Years now, after a while you get the hang of it...you dont need a Manual or Tutorial anymore to understand how something works, because you have seem it in a different game already.
  • #300
    Quote from CodeRedLin
    This guy wins pretty much every race he enters in PoE which puts everyone on the same level (1 hour, 3 hour, etc set playing time starting from complete scratch with no advantages given to anyone). I know you dismiss that certain players are way above the norm but when they win near 100% of the races (Kripp crushing ~2000 to 5000 people over and over) and always finish top (Reckful just had Rank 1 on 2 different classes in WoW again for instance) I guess it could all be luck. I'm still waiting on my turn at a good dice roll :-)


    The only part of this I question is the ~2000-5000 over and over again part. From what I see, sorted by total amount of races participated in: Kripp partcipiated in 83 total races in season 1, the guy sitting at 2000, participated in 17 total races in season 1, and the guy sitting at 5000 participated in 6 total races.

    If I had to guess (nothing more than that) I'd say the approximation would be closer to 200-500 that are actually participating in races on a consistent basis.
  • #301

    Well one thing im not a kripp/crapp follower but the things he says are right.He has more experience.

    Now if someone better than kripp came along and directly challenged his views then that would be cool.Someone who could crush kripp in gaming.However comments like "Kripp knows nothing" sounds lame from gamers who are still posting on forums about what they should buy with their 300m.

    Now im gonna get a lot of posts about how "We got family,kids and wives to fuck(That had really made me LOL hard) and kripp has time." If you not got time,its not kripp's fault he has.Time is required to play games too.

    Its like inviting someone to a feat of strength and then whining after losing that he had more time to excercise.

    Look im not saying kripp's the best.But i am not at a level to challenge him simply because he has more experience.I have not won every race i have entered in.I have not beat diablo pre-nerf.Kripp has.So he is better.

    However if someone along the same lvl of skill as kripp challenged him it would sound more appropriate rather than giving a hint of jealousy.


    Do the accomplishments that Kripparian has accumulated define him as a good player?

    For me the answer is no, it makes him an accomplished player, he is likely good though. Not revolutionary or inventive.

    To me his accomplishments are mostly a credit to time spent playing and the through help of others. He did not do it alone. He discredits himself by playing so much and then saying how terrible it is. If it captured his attention for so many hours it was awesome. How does anything else he has to say after that means anything to anyone?

    I do not feel anything he has done make him an expert on how games should be developed or fixed. This is an extremely competitive industry, if smart people thought he could help, he would be employed or approached to develop a game.

    Games should not be made for people like him. The opposite is true. I have been playing games and following forums since their inception. You can NEVER please people who devour content or play as much he does. It is a losing proposition to try. His play style combined with what I have heard him say and what I have seen him post leads me to reason that this is not a person I need to listen to, interested in his opinion and it make him less qualified to speak for the masses.

    In a nutshell, I think his opinions are no more meaningful than anyone else’s and if pressed I would say opinions should carry very much less weight or influence because he is such an outlier compared to the common player. In short, he should be ignored. I understand why people prop him up to be more than he is, he has the same opinion as they do, look “Kripparian agrees with me therefore I must be correct”…not so much.
  • #302
    Quote from overneathe

    I'm sure there are at least a dozen "top notch" players on our forums. Jaetch being a great example. Don't want to leave out the rest but I'm occupied slightly at the moment. There are absolutely, definitely a lot of great players in our forums, on par or even maybe above Kripparian. How can they be above? Attitude. :)


    Thanks, overneathe. You're making me blush, now.
  • #303
    I don't respect any of those so called celebrities, since the beginning I've said "tighten the affixes so that inferno items roll only with inferno affixe ranks", and this is exactly what the devs are aiming for next with the itemization and it is what will "save" the game for the most part. So there you have it, these so called expert all shared their wisdom and great ideas on their streams, but all along I held a superior opinion and better position to theirs, which in turn means I had a better understanding of the game and of the players, casual, hardcore, every player, except the AH players, but I care about Diablo not the auction house.
  • #304
    Athene is a character. An actual character. He steps out of it from time to time and has done a lot of great charity work. People watch him for his character that he has developed. Personally, I dont like it but other people obviously do. From what little I have seen of him out of character, he seems like a pretty good guy.

    Kripp is not a character. He is how he is. He is very elitist and has been since WoW. However, in WoW it was much less of him and much more of his guild. His guild exploited the shit out of anything they could. Since he started streaming D3 and beyond, I see now that much of what his guild did is probably because of decisions that he made (though many in the higher circles share his mentality, so probably not much persuasion was needed). I despise him because he is so consistently negative. It is never a straight up "this is so fun" it is always "this is so broken" or "this game is fun, much more fun than this other game".

    Basically, he is the exact personality that is opposite of mine and the one that I hate the most. He is the businessman that will trash talk his co-worker to get that promotion. The one that will steal secrets to get ahead. He is, almost purely, about himself. Or at least, this is how it reflects on me when I see him and hear him talk.
  • #305
    I enjoy Kripparrian and his content, I've been watching him since D3 release (like everybody else I suspect).
    I find that he has a sence of humour, is good at the games he plays and he's keeping it real.
    One thing I find annoying is that he's pretty lazy and lacks inspiration/creativity when it comes to his videos.
    Make your peace...Quickly!
  • #306
    edit: meh im not gunna hate the player or the game. it really doesnt matter to me. i feel like live streaming myself and see if i can get any faithful viewers but im not really that good and i dont have extravagant gear or anything. but ill put up a live stream for duels tonight and see how that goes. it would be nice to put some money in my pocket if i got a fan base so im not gunna hate on these guys cause they do. honestly im a little jealous that they get paid to do their hobby.

    the way i feel is dont worry about other people worry about yourself. you are better off that way.
  • #307
    Quote from lalaurentide

    I don't respect any of those so called celebrities, since the beginning I've said "tighten the affixes so that inferno items roll only with inferno affixe ranks", and this is exactly what the devs are aiming for next with the itemization and it is what will "save" the game for the most part. So there you have it, these so called expert all shared their wisdom and great ideas on their streams, but all along I held a superior opinion and better position to theirs, which in turn means I had a better understanding of the game and of the players, casual, hardcore, every player, except the AH players, but I care about Diablo not the auction house.


    I find it hard to believe that most people didn't think the auction house was part of the problem to begin with. I'm sure it has defenders though and anyone still playing obviously likes something about the game that I didn't.

    1.0.8 has a lot of social fixes which is nice. Mob density changes are nice as well. I remember wishing mobs would surround me through most of the acts instead of having to search for them.

    1.0.9 will be the item patch? This is cool for a fresh character but I finished the game in half blues/half rares the day after the initial Inferno nerf patch. I guess I could put on cheap blues and simulate the self found gear.

    My Diablo 2 memories were gone by the time D3 hit. I've recently installed the game but still haven't loaded it up because most of my spare time is taken up by PoE. Most of my thoughts on where D3 has problems comes from seeing how PoE does things and from fragments of D2 rose-tinted glass memories. I usually quit games I don't like instead of trashing them in forums but the Diablo franchise has a special place in my heart.

    I check out Diablofans to see the progress being made on D3 and glanced up at the forum section and you guys sucked me into this topic. I start off games blind without forums/streamers/chat and then I watch Kripp and other streams to see what the top players are doing and how many things I got wrong. I saw this transpire live and didn't think anything of it. It was Kripp's first time talking to Alkazier who he just raced against and I think the general feeling of what was said matters more than the way it was said. It is something even the people on this forum that are slamming Kripp/Alk are willing to admit. The game has issues that are still being worked on. Unless you think the game is fine the way it is right now or will be fine in 1.0.8 or 1.0.9 you are very much on their bandwagon. And that is a good thing because it means Blizzard will keep dumping their development dollars into the game until it drags the franchise name out of the mud they put it in.

    Diablo 3 will have an expansion but if the game isn't in a good place when that hits you won't see a repeat of the D3 launch. You'll see a dead franchise. And that is something everyone of us including the 2/3 streamers in the video don't want to see.

    EDIT: I meant to add after 1.0.9 that the problem wouldn't be as bad if a ladder system was in place or that you could roll more than 10(?) characters. Nothing that hasn't been said a million times before by those longing for D2 though.
    Path of Exile - CleavieWonder (Elemental Cleave)
  • #308
    Back to the topic away from kripp.

    why hasnt blizzard added new items that perhaps either require paragon levels or something. Add new slots or something cause i dont know if theres any reason to farm anymore. I think mempo is the only 1 item left in the game thats worth finding and when theres only 1 item its like snore fest for me atleast.

    Add something please; Add a map creator for creating more zones. Perhaps make it require a paragon level or something so it gives people an incentive to reach higher pparagon levels.

    Have self found mode only.

    Have races and a ladder system
  • #309
    Quote from Smashr

    Back to the topic away from kripp.

    why hasnt blizzard added new items that perhaps either require paragon levels or something. Add new slots or something cause i dont know if theres any reason to farm anymore. I think mempo is the only 1 item left in the game thats worth finding and when theres only 1 item its like snore fest for me atleast.

    Add something please; Add a map creator for creating more zones. Perhaps make it require a paragon level or something so it gives people an incentive to reach higher pparagon levels.

    Have self found mode only.

    Have races and a ladder system


    If you played Diablo 2 for more than 10 months, what would be the point to continue playing more? What would be a reason to farm more?

    Disclaimer: I don't like ladder.
  • #310
    A point raised often in this thread is that players such as Kripparrian, who play a game many hours a day, are not skilled. They only succeed in what they do because they put in a lot of time. If you don't become good at something for doing something over and over again, how exactly do you achieve the skill?
    What is skill determined by? Can knowledge of how a game works be classified as skill? I would say absolutely.
    As an example, if you were playing some skill-based game (such as StarCraft) and you knew all of the counters to any build your opponent could be using, you could be considered a skilled player. You've shown that you have played the game a lot, and as such are able to succeed when others may become overwhelmed or confused.
    Kripparrian spends so much of his time learning exactly how the game's mechanics work, and he tries to find ways to defeat them, or get around them. In my honest opinion, his knowledge and dedication make him a skilled player, even though he is not the only one out there discovering new strategies and techniques.
  • #311
    Quote from CodeRedLin
    I find it hard to believe that most people didn't think the auction house was part of the problem to begin with. I'm sure it has defenders though and anyone still playing obviously likes something about the game that I didn't.


    You can count me as one of those people that does not feel the AHs ruined the game. I think the AH argument is a mask for a bigger problem that D3 has.

    In my opinion the problem with D3 is that the developers were trying to maintain a balanced economy based around the assumptions that players will be playing their game 10+ hours a day for years on end.

    It's sort of ironic that the AH argument is still being used to explain why D3 was bad. PoE is a prime example of a game that doesn't have an AH yet still exhibits the same exact itemization flaws that D3 possesses.
  • #312
    Quote from overneathe

    If you played Diablo 2 for more than 10 months, what would be the point to continue playing more? What would be a reason to farm more?

    Disclaimer: I don't like ladder.


    Various mechanics of the game allowed for more replayability.

    The ladder was part of it but you didn't have to participate. The ladder helped the social aspect because those that competed in it logged in. A sense of competition also can make the game interesting for some people.

    Builds required more commitment than a slot machine arcade game to implement. So if you decided spinning wasn't your thing you had to start a new character and had the slots to do it. The level of care you had to have for your character was greater than that of D3. When you log into your account those characters feel like yours. In D3 you could log into any 60 character and would barely notice a difference.

    I agree the thousand Baal runs got boring to me. I believe I quit before Uber Diablo but my memory is cloudy because I had RL friends that still played and I got to see things in the game well after I stopped playing.

    The things I would have changed:
    - The arcade talent system of D3. I'm pretty sure everyone still playing likes it though and it can't be changed until D4 without serious community outrage. Gem skill systems or D2's build system feel better to me.
    - Ladder system. Hating it doesn't mean you have to participate in it.
    - Maps. Imagination is the only limitation for this and would offer nice end game replayability.
    - Races. With the item changes in 1.0.9 this could actually work out. A real sense of community can be created here as you aim for top 500 Witch Doctor especially with party races.
    - Item modifications. PoE spoils (and crushes wills... damn you 6 link!) but it is a fun and avoidable meta game that adds depth. I know this is the first time it has been said but D3 could maybe use a little more depth.

    Maps / Races are the easiest to implement and would add the most to the game after 1.0.9's item changes.
    Path of Exile - CleavieWonder (Elemental Cleave)
  • #313
    Quote from Coaster_Man

    A point raised often in this thread is that players such as Kripparrian, who play a game many hours a day, are not skilled. They only succeed in what they do because they put in a lot of time. If you don't become good at something for doing something over and over again, how exactly do you achieve the skill?
    What is skill determined by? Can knowledge of how a game works be classified as skill? I would say absolutely.
    As an example, if you were playing some skill-based game (such as StarCraft) and you knew all of the counters to any build your opponent could be using, you could be considered a skilled player. You've shown that you have played the game a lot, and as such are able to succeed when others may become overwhelmed or confused.
    Kripparrian spends so much of his time learning exactly how the game's mechanics work, and he tries to find ways to defeat them, or get around them. In my honest opinion, his knowledge and dedication make him a skilled player, even though he is not the only one out there discovering new strategies and techniques.

    The games that he plays reward time investment more than skill investment. He is good with time management and has built a lot of contacts within the community that collaborate and figure things out. Most of what he uses is something that somebody else figured out and he learned of (contacts). His dedication is a redeeming quality, I will give you that.

    Also, while SC is a game based around knowledge you can beat many people without said knowledge. You can sheer skill your way to very high rankings. The addition of knowledge with that skill is what makes you a professional.
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