Kripp and Alkaizer talk about Diablo 3

  • #231
    Just curious.. Do I count as a Blizzard fanboy if I enjoyed D1, D2, D2 LoD and D3? I never liked any of those other games Blizzard put out for us since those arent about hack n slash arpg.

    Tried PoE, never feelt as fun.

    Swedish Official Fansite www.Diablo3pvp.se

  • #232
    all i want to say is d3 is not as complex as it should have been its really quiet easy the only hard thing about d3 is getting items worth billions of gold. i believe poe has diablo beat with build diversity. also im not saying d3 sucks cause i have 1500 hours played in the game so id be a liar if i said that but its really not what it was expected to be by most. and the auction house... poe has one too its called the forums/trade and ya getting end game items in poe is pretty much impossible just like d3's billion gold items. to me they are both very good games but idk which one is better. but right now im looking forward to pvp in diablo thats pretty much all i care about in that game anymore as i am now dueling most the time. but also thats probably going to be the direction i am going to go in poe also.

    the other thing i question is what is so authentic about these so called pro players that everyone is googoo gaga over? they receive donations and buy there way to their "eliteness" in these games... maybe id give them props if they were hard core pvp players and dominated the community but did it from scratch and didnt buy their gear with real money or any other way then farming it out themselves you know the hard way like a pro would do. id maybe watch them if they became so hard core from scratch and streamed every second of their play time so we would all know they didnt cheat. whats fun about watching a cocky douchebag think hes hardcore cause he bought his shit. i think anyone would have a bad opinion of a game if they took the fun out of it by buying your way through it. thats like putting in godmode and saying this game is too easy
  • #233
    Quote from 0mn1bl4d3

    all i want to say is d3 is not as complex as it should have been its really quiet easy the only hard thing about d3 is getting items worth billions of gold. i believe poe has diablo beat with build diversity. also im not saying d3 sucks cause i have 1500 hours played in the game so id be a liar if i said that but its really not what it was expected to be by most. and the auction house... poe has one too its called the forums/trade and ya getting end game items in poe is pretty much impossible just like d3's billion gold items. to me they are both very good games but idk which one is better. but right now im looking forward to pvp in diablo thats pretty much all i care about in that game anymore as i am now dueling most the time. but also thats probably going to be the direction i am going to go in poe also.

    the other thing i question is what is so authentic about these so called pro players that everyone is googoo gaga over? they receive donations and buy there way to their "eliteness" in these games... maybe id give them props if they were hard core pvp players and dominated the community but did it from scratch and didnt buy their gear with real money or any other way then farming it out themselves you know the hard way like a pro would do. id maybe watch them if they became so hard core from scratch and streamed every second of their play time so we would all know they didnt cheat. whats fun about watching a cocky douchebag think hes hardcore cause he bought his shit.


    It is comments like these that baffle me. What specifically needs to be more complex about D3 that would make the game so much better than it currently is? D1 wasn't complex, D2 wasn't complex, LOD wasn't complex, yet they were all awesome fun, amazing gaming experiences.

    Should I have to answer a question on advanced calculus before I can fight Diablo? Do I need to answer a question on quantum mechanics or theoretical physics before I can identify an item? You can add in complexities for the sake of being complex but it doesn't necessarily enhance the gaming experience.

    For all the complexities the PoE skill tree has, after all is said and done, if you aren't building your character within a certain paradigm of nodes you won't be succeeding later on in the game.
  • #234
    Quote from Tralfamadore

    Should I have to answer a question on advanced calculus before I can fight Diablo? Do I need to answer a question on quantum mechanics or theoretical physics before I can identify an item? You can add in complexities for the sake of being complex but it doesn't necessarily enhance the gaming experience.


    well they dont need to make the game so its for scientists we are gamers for christ sakes. but tell me what is hard about d3? doing mp 10 inferno? why? because getting the gear to do so is the only hard thing about it. i could give a child 4 yrs old a godly geared character and say click on them with this button and make them ultra tanky where they would never die but 1 shot everything. so please tell me whats hard? buying those godly items is the only hard thing.
  • #235
    Quote from 0mn1bl4d3

    Quote from Tralfamadore

    Should I have to answer a question on advanced calculus before I can fight Diablo? Do I need to answer a question on quantum mechanics or theoretical physics before I can identify an item? You can add in complexities for the sake of being complex but it doesn't necessarily enhance the gaming experience.


    well they dont need to make the game so its for scientists we are gamers for christ sakes. but tell me what is hard about d3? doing mp 10 inferno? why? because getting the gear to do so is the only hard thing about it. i could give a child 4 yrs old a godly geared character and say click on them with this button and make them ultra tanky where they would never die but 1 shot everything. so please tell me whats hard? buying those godly items is the only hard thing.


    I never suggested the game had any hard parts or the game necessitated "complex mechanics". I had a blast in D1, D2 and LOD, can you name overly complex mechanics those games had?
  • #236
    all im saying is d3 is too easy but these guys are hypocrites because they bought their gear and turned on godmode and say d3 is too easy. looks like his video of him playing poe looks pretty damn easy to me. hey guys i got tons of dps and use gmp and 1 shot entire mobs!!!! im so leet!!!! give me money!!!!

    now if these scrubs would start a fresh account and work their way to the top of pvp in poe and in d3 without paying for their gear then they could have something to say. i believe their points are invalid

    now doing something like beating a 420k dps dh with items worth billions of gold in every slot with a character that was 50m or less all together thats impressive. but i wont toot my own horn.
  • #237
    use┬Ěless [yoos-lis]

    adjective
    1. of no use; not serving the purpose or any purpose; unavailing or futile: It is useless to reason with him.
    2. without useful qualities; of no practical good: a useless person; a useless gadget.

    A Barbarian belt with 150 int gives 15 resist all. That's mitigation/EHP, in case you don't understand the basic systems of D3. 15 resist all was valued at some point by some people to be worth MILLIONS (as in a Witching Hour or an Inna's Favor). Even nowadays, a Tal Rasha's Relentless Pursuit with 20 AllRes is worth more than one with 350 armor, and guess which one gives more mitigation?

    If you want to argue because that the effects of "secondary stats" are not useful enough for people to choose them over something like "pickup radius" or "mainstat", I'm with you 110% (said this myself dozens of times). You wanna argue it's "useless"? Sorry, you'll never convince me.

    We could discuss itemization and why I think they didn't "fail hard", but made some seemingly bad choices from our end (a binary system of "Offense vs Defense" with "primary" affixes and "utility" affixes), for pages, but I don't wanna go way off-topic. I'll save that for another thread.

    My 20+ friends stopped playing as well as well. Some of them complained about lack of a good crafting system, some complained about online only, some simply stopped playing, some come back and play for a couple weeks with every patch.

    And, again, a lot of them loved Borderlands 2, Modern Warfare 3, Starcraft 2, Minecraft, League of Legends, Resident Evil 5, Terraria, and dozens of other great multiplayer games, and newsflash: they stopped playing those as well. If you can't understand such basic behaviour in today's gaming communities, it's hard to discuss any point.
  • #238
    Long time reader, first time poster.

    I played a lot of diablo and diablo 2 LOD back in the day. I was pretty stoked to see D3 was in the works a few years back. Checked up on it now and then, but probably not near as much as some of you. Release day came and i did manage to get my hands on a Collectors Edition. Played for a few months, felt kind of disappointed in it, but decided to take a break knowing it will get better. It never actually crossed my mind blizzard would let a game like this fail. And, in my opinion, i am correct. They are making great improvements.

    I suppose you can call me a fanboy, although i dont like any other Blizzard game. Tried them, didnt really like them too much. But its odd, that like everyone else, I EXPECTED a game to be improved. I spent 100 bucks on my collectors edition (which I am not upset about at all), but it was a one time fee. This isnt a game with a monthly fee. So the more I have thought about it, I dont know where people get off expecting so much. Is it wrong to expect more? Hell no, the game needs help, I definitely admit it. But the attitudes on the Battle.net forums towards the Devs themselves and other CMs as well as the attitudes here are just insane. People feel entitiled to these improvements theyre giving. Is the game perfect yet? Nope, but I dont get how some dont even see it as progress. As I said, i was disappointed, but my world did not come crashing down. One of two things was going to happen when i quit for a bit: 1. They update the game like I thought they would and implement great changes or 2. they wouldnt do a damn thing and id just be out 100 bucks. Which is the equivalent to two freaking tanks of gas nowadays. And i STILL played for 80 or so hours before i quit.

    But i wasnt raging mad when i quit. I just simply stopped. I read this board a lot and it seems so many angry people spent a LOT of time playing a game they loathe so much. I dont really understand it. It must not be that bad of a game if you log 400 hours on it. Thats like ordering a huge steak, eating the ENTIRE thing, and THEN complaining it didnt taste good enough. I am not going to lash out at the staff demanding a refund for something that has now been devoured completely. And it took 400 hours to devour it.

    These two "pro" diablo players (I have no idea how you can be regarded as elite or pro on a Point and Click Adventure) cannot be taken serious. Its disheartening to read so many people take their opinion as fact. They do not speak for me. I am not whining the entire time I play. I am not whining about the game on a forum every night. I am not praising the game the entire time i play. I am not praising the game on a forum every night. However, I thought some might like a breath of fresh air from another perspective. I feel as though the game needs improvement, but i do NOT expect anything. I am VERY pleased with the progress they are making. I do not feel as though i fall into the fanboy or hater category, which seems to have taken over every diablo board.

    If you like it, youre a fanboy. If you dont like it, youre a hater. Its the most extremely narrow minded mess ive read. Im sure ive got a breaking point, as a lot of you have clearly hit yours, but Im sure when i reach mine i will just simply move on to something else. I suppose that seeming so easy to me doesnt make me very understanding to the ongoing bitter war on diablo forums.

    As for POE, thats really the only topic im just going to give a nice firm "Hell No" to. I played it for about 2 days and it is not anything its made out to be by some here. It looks God awful for one. I tried to get by that, but then realized how much i couldnt stand running around the same damn place for 30 minutes trying to find the exit with NOTHING to even look forward to while i ran around EXCEPT the exit.
  • #239
    Welcome to the forums.

    Amen to pretty much everything you said. Having some wisdom is a rare trait nowadays, glad to see some people still have it.

    And to think that probably a huge part of the D3 playerbase (you know, those people who bought the game and are as entitled as the others) are just like that, not taking part of the whole "forum"/stream/youtube drama (either here or on the official forums); maybe not even really using the AH that much and not bothering with it.

    But watch out for those nice comments people like throwing around. Make sure they don't get to you (as it happens to me sometimes): Just because you didn't play it for 500+ hours, you're a "casual" player. Just because you didn't reach MP10 Inferno, you're a "noob". Just because you appreciate some of the changes made so far, you're a "blindfolded fan". Just because you know better and refuse to accept all this nonsense without putting some thought to it, you're a "Blizzard fanboy". Just because you personally didn't like how PoE feel, you're a "PoE hater".
  • #240
    Very nice first post there SexyShane, a good way to introduce yourself to the forums. I just wish that more forum posters (not necessarily here) had the same attitude.

    Your points are spot on. I often wonder why so many fans feel like they're owed so much free content after they've already paid for the game. The only answer I can come up with is that maybe they've come from a subscription based background where they're paying for the extra content, then expect the same service from other games, without realising they're no longer paying for the updates. Other games offer updates as DLC, or paid for improvements.

    To use a relevant example, I noticed PoE's shop, with stash upgrades being paid for. I have no problem with that at all! I like the idea of paying a small fee for an extra character slot, larger stash space or even weapon effects and small cosmetic things. I never liked the idea of 'pay for this months BiS weapon' though.
    "It takes a man with real heart...to make beauty out of the stuff that makes us weep." - Clive Barker
  • #241
    What Blizzard in my opinion always manage to do is to get the fundamentals justa right. Say what you will about World of Warcraft, difficulty levels, "casual-appeals" and whatever, WoW still has something that other games don't, and that's a flawless core. Combat, movement, interaction, it's all so finely tuned and crafted to the point where everything else just feels awkward. Whenever I try a new MMO, the first thing I do is compare the movement to WoW. Why? Because I've never played a game that has such "comfortable" movement as WoW, the fluidity and feel is just perfect.

    And the same goes for Diablo 3, the core is fantastic. The visuals, the combat, the sounds, the feel, it's all there, and the other games just can't live up to it.

    Path of Exile is a really cool game in terms of theorycrafting and class builds, but it falls flat in terms of actual gameplay. The world is dull, character movement looks awkward at best, animations are flat and combat is horrifyingly sluggish. PoE is more of a puzzle and a mindgame than an action game. The mathematical complexity is mindblowing (for good and bad), but it's not fun to play.Yes, yes, it's a free-to-play game and it has a small development studio, but that's just an excuse that players make to make up for the major flaws their favorite game has.

    Torchlight 2 had some really interesting things going for it, but going from Diablo 3 to TL2 just felt awkward. I didn't have the same control over my character, it was clunky and it just didn't seem polished enough. The itemization was cool and I love the artstyle, but when the basics are shaky, it's hard to keep interest.

    Blizzard have become masters at getting the fundamentals right. All the way from Warcraft to Starcraft 2, I've never had an awkward feeling when playing one of their games. Way too few game studios spend enough time to capture the essence of the game. It is by far the hardest thing to fix once your game is released.

    Where Blizzard fell short is in the "superficial" things. End-game content, itemization, class balance etc, but that can be fixed. It is much, much harder to fix a broken core than changing the surface of a game. Diablo 3 has an amazing "skeleton" to build from and I'm sure Blizzard will get the other parts right in due time, just as they've done in every game before.
  • #242
    +1 Shane, you are so sexy.

  • #243
    Quote from Kaoskadosk

    -snip-


    Woah dude. You need to write more. Reading that was just.... it was pleasure.
  • #244
    Quote from Kaoskadosk

    Yes, yes, it's a free-to-play game and it has a small development studio, but that's just an excuse that players make to make up for the major flaws their favorite game has.

    Bastion was developed by a very small studio as well, and its combat fluidity and design is simply amazing.

    I wouldn't call that a flaw, it might just be a PoE thing, a characteristic; and even a conscient design by their developers: to have that old school feeling (the same way Resident Evil games never implemented FPS WASD movement).

    Torchlight 2 had some really interesting things going for it, but going from Diablo 3 to TL2 just felt awkward. I didn't have the same control over my character, it was clunky and it just didn't seem polished enough. The itemization was cool and I love the artstyle, but when the basics are shaky, it's hard to keep interest.

    I honestly felt like Torchlight 1 had better movement and combat mechanics (as well as overall better enemy placement and more meaningful density) than TL2.

    It could be my memory playing tricks on me, though.
  • #245
    Quote from Kaoskadosk
    [...]

    Best post in this entire thread.
    I AIN'T HAD NO SHOES OR NOTHIN' JESUS.

  • #246
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Torchlight 2 had some really interesting things going for it, but going from Diablo 3 to TL2 just felt awkward. I didn't have the same control over my character, it was clunky and it just didn't seem polished enough. The itemization was cool and I love the artstyle, but when the basics are shaky, it's hard to keep interest.

    I honestly felt like Torchlight 1 had better movement and combat mechanics (as well as overall better enemy placement and more meaningful density) than TL2.

    It could be my memory playing tricks on me, though.


    Nope, I felt the same way. The first 10-15 hours of gameplay in Torchlight 1 was among the most amazing experience I've ever had in > 20 years of gaming. I was just blown away, nothing could've stopped me from playing in these first few hours. It was simply amazing. Well, until you hit level 50-60 and find out that they completely forgot end-game, but it's a different story.

    Torchlight 2 never had that feeling for me. It was always clumsy, cumbersome, somewhat strange. Can't say why, but after a playthrough I switched to D3 and was blown away, it's like switching from Space Invaders to Half-Life 2.

    And yeah, like overneathe said, +1 Kaoskadosk. It sums up perfectly why you can bash Blizzard for so many things they don't get right, but the essentials of a game's core are just something they can master like no other company. And like he said, those are things you can fix, and their games usually last for ~10 years and not ~1 year like many other games. Besides, one should keep in mind that many authors of complaints about D3 spent hundreds of hours playing this game. 99% of PC games don't even get you there, they're uninstalled after 15 minutes.

    Edit: Holy crap, two amazing posts here. I'm gonna bookmark Kaoskadosk's and SexyShane's posts. They should be extracted and put into a disclaimer before you even sign up. Awesome.
  • #247
    Quote from Kaoskadosk

    What Blizzard in my opinion always manage to do is to get the fundamentals justa right. Say what you will about World of Warcraft, difficulty levels, "casual-appeals" and whatever, WoW still has something that other games don't, and that's a flawless core. Combat, movement, interaction, it's all so finely tuned and crafted to the point where everything else just feels awkward. Whenever I try a new MMO, the first thing I do is compare the movement to WoW. Why? Because I've never played a game that has such "comfortable" movement as WoW, the fluidity and feel is just perfect.

    And the same goes for Diablo 3, the core is fantastic. The visuals, the combat, the sounds, the feel, it's all there, and the other games just can't live up to it.

    Path of Exile is a really cool game in terms of theorycrafting and class builds, but it falls flat in terms of actual gameplay. The world is dull, character movement looks awkward at best, animations are flat and combat is horrifyingly sluggish. PoE is more of a puzzle and a mindgame than an action game. The mathematical complexity is mindblowing (for good and bad), but it's not fun to play.Yes, yes, it's a free-to-play game and it has a small development studio, but that's just an excuse that players make to make up for the major flaws their favorite game has.

    Torchlight 2 had some really interesting things going for it, but going from Diablo 3 to TL2 just felt awkward. I didn't have the same control over my character, it was clunky and it just didn't seem polished enough. The itemization was cool and I love the artstyle, but when the basics are shaky, it's hard to keep interest.

    Blizzard have become masters at getting the fundamentals right. All the way from Warcraft to Starcraft 2, I've never had an awkward feeling when playing one of their games. Way too few game studios spend enough time to capture the essence of the game. It is by far the hardest thing to fix once your game is released.

    Where Blizzard fell short is in the "superficial" things. End-game content, itemization, class balance etc, but that can be fixed. It is much, much harder to fix a broken core than changing the surface of a game. Diablo 3 has an amazing "skeleton" to build from and I'm sure Blizzard will get the other parts right in due time, just as they've done in every game before.


    Thank you.

    This echos exactly what I said earlier on in this thread, but you really gave better narration to the sentiment I was trying to convey.

    All this 'sky-is-falling'....."tear it down and start over" bullshit is being taken too far, to say the least. The issues with itemization are not only fixable, but I would go so far as to say the potential within the area of itemization has a VERY high ceiling.

    If they had goofed on the core of the game, the combat mechanics, this game would not have a chance.

    I feel the next 6 months will be HUGE for Diablo 3.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #248
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Nodnarb

    Both of these guys clearly have a lot of knowledge but I don't feel like they represent the core of DiabloFANS. I'd much rather hear what the mods on this site have to say then these two know it alls.


    So much this, I can't give you enough +1s for that. Seriously! Amen, brotha!

    EDIT
    Quote from Strafir

    You're criticizing two very smart personalities who are one of the few that hasn't given into the money and genuinely play games out of passion and won't accept half assed maneuvers. Trying to argue that either of these people are anything less than important pioneers of d3 is silly.


    Are YOU serious? Haven't given into the money? Kripparian makes tons of money streaming. Don't be so foolish to think that he's a "genuine gamer." From the very beginning he's been playing all you people to get as much revenue as possible. It's called pandering and he's a master of it. If he thought that his fans wanted to hear that Whimsyshire was a good place to go and masturbate for 27 hours at a time then he'd make a video about that and laugh his way to the bank while all his puppets post about how amazing Whimsyshire is.

    If you really think that Kripp isn't driven by the money he makes being who he is then you're so indescribably naive that I'm not sure what to say to you other than you are his exact target audience.


    Would just like to chim in on this. I dont follow kripp that much but i will say that out of all streamers he is the least driven by money. If you pay any attention to what he does you will clearly notice this, anyone who knows about making money will tell you that he does not follow the path of maximising profits. Other streamers like Kungen or Athene (or pretty much the majority of streamers) spam their video stream with TOP DONATIONS and DONATIONS OF TODAY etc. They have obnoxious STEELSERIES and RAZER ads all over their stream (not talking about commercials, but actual placements within the video stream). They have obnoxious contest where everyone must SPAM the chat with words like "RAZER" for over an hour for a giveaway. Athene even goes so far that you must PAY him in order to chat. Most streamers have signed agreements with various companys and are essentially working as marketing tools rather than game players. Athene spams his youtube channel with videos of Razer and other product placement rather than interesting gaming videos. You can even hear hidden product placement in form of staged conversations in Athenes stream between the characters behind the camera: "hey man, have you heard of X?" "No, i use Y, whats X all about?" "oh man, you gotta try X, its so cool blablabl". Its quite pathetic. People like Kungen and Athene also goes to the game that yields most profits, such as Leage of Legends.

    Then look at Kripp. He has none of this. Not a single thing. He has declined numerous deals that companies have offered him. He has no product placements. He has no giveaways. He has no obnoxious DAILY DONATIONS crap either. The only thing he had was a small donation button at the bottom of the page called the "moneypit" (which is gone now), which he never advertised or spoke of. He has never once asked for donations. He also started playing Path of Exile when it was at an alltime low of players. He cut his viewers by 3/4th, losing TONS of profits. But he did it anyway because he thought path of exile was a FUN game that he ENJOYES.

    Take what you want from this, but i dont think its right to point fingers at kripp and say hes out for the money when his behaviour clearly shows that he doesnt care about it. Any smart businessman who wants to maximize profits would call Kripp a dumbass, he could easily tripple his income.
  • #249
    Wow, those posts from SexyShane and Kaoskadosk are really well written and refreshing.
  • #250
    I've never really understood why people watch someone stream their game play, especially if they themselves play the game. After I actually wasted 10 minutes of my time doing it, all I saw was people spamming for free crap or trolling eachother in the chat channels with the streams.

    Both of these players are not revolutionary, special, or anymore knowledge than thousands of other players that just decide to keep to themselves or their group and not stream bull-crap all day. Finding exploits or playing builds that people have already made isn't anything special and pandering to the masses is certainly one simple way to generate streaming revenue. It's popular to hate on D3 I suppose, I myself have done it and I've taken breaks from the game simply because a lot of stuff about d3 pissed me off...and the other half would be because new games have come out. I think the changes I'm seeing now and the way their taking the game post Jay Wilson are going in the right direction and they seem to be taking user feedback into account much more these days.
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