No. Diablo 2 was very playable and enjoyable without trading with others on forums etc.
The issue with Diablo 3 (or one of many), and the AHs, is that it is not really enjoyable to play without the AH. And that is not positive.
Yes, trading was annoying in Diablo 2, but it isn't much of a problem that trading is annoying and difficult to facilitate, if trading isn't very beneficial or interesting in the first place.
Then most people can just ignore trading and play the game instead, while the ones who want to trade, would unfortunately have to go trough more annoying steps to do so. The benefits of a better game far outweighs the benefits of easier trading for tradeaholics though.
D3 is also enjoyable without trading. You can easily get a char trough inferno with only self-found items.
The only thing that the AH does in D3 is that you now know just how bad your gear is ( you can compare ) while in D2 you just had no idea and played with what you had.
And yes, trading was very beneficial in D2. I dont know how many complete IK or Tal Rasha sets you found in your D2 time, but the drop chances were certainly very low in D2 too. Trading could easily make the difference between a char just making it trough hell and a char who can farm MP8 with ease. Just as in D3.
As I said, the tuning of the game is more or less similar in D2 and D3. The only difference is comfort for the users. And you whine about a comfort function. I dont believe it...
I hope you don't (but its seems you like it) think the actual system does work, cause its really really not.
How does it not work? All I see is people complaining because the game is not exactly what THEY imagined, mostly cause they have weird ideas of what D2 used to be and project that on what they want from D3.
No. Diablo 2 was very playable and enjoyable without trading with others on forums etc.
The issue with Diablo 3 (or one of many), and the AHs, is that it is not really enjoyable to play without the AH. And that is not positive.
Yes, trading was annoying in Diablo 2, but it isn't much of a problem that trading is annoying and difficult to facilitate, if trading isn't very beneficial or interesting in the first place.
Then most people can just ignore trading and play the game instead, while the ones who want to trade, would unfortunately have to go trough more annoying steps to do so. The benefits of a better game far outweighs the benefits of easier trading for tradeaholics though.
D3 is also enjoyable without trading. You can easily get a char trough inferno with only self-found items.
The only thing that the AH does in D3 is that you now know just how bad your gear is ( you can compare ) while in D2 you just had no idea and played with what you had.
And yes, trading was very beneficial in D2. I dont know how many complete IK or Tal Rasha sets you found in your D2 time, but the drop chances were certainly very low in D2 too. Trading could easily make the difference between a char just making it trough hell and a char who can farm MP8 with ease. Just as in D3.
As I said, the tuning of the game is more or less similar in D2 and D3. The only difference is comfort for the users. And you whine about a comfort function. I dont believe it...
What is so hard to believe?
You have a so-called comfort feature, that encourages you to not play the game. That is simply a bad feature to have, no matter how you look at it.
I'd compare it to Sacred 2 tbh, which had a skill that allowed you to get better gear from vendors - to exemplify how this isnt just a problem with trading.
The result was, that the best way to get gear in the game, was to increase said skill, and spend endless hours running between 2 vendors buying some of the best gear you could get.
Comfort? Maybe. But very harmful for the fun-factor of a game that supposedly was about killing monsters for their loot.
I haven't said trading wasn't beneficial in D2. It was not as straight-forward though, meaning that the balance between playing the game versus trading wasn't so far off as in D3. Which isn't to say that it was necessarily a good balance in D2 either.
You have a so-called comfort feature, that encourages you to not play the game. That is simply a bad feature to have, no matter how you look at it.
How is it encouraging you not to play the game?
First off, you need some wealth to start buying anything in the AH. You get that by playing the game. I think most people still spend a lot of time farming.
Second, for some people ( I dont think it is many, but there were similar players in WoW and any other game with a ingame AH ) playing the AH is what they enjoy in the game. They may enjoy the economy aspect of it or whatever, I am not one of them.
And third, nobody is forcing you to even look at the AH if you dont want to. If you dont like it, you dont have to spend a cent or a copper coin.
I haven't said trading wasn't beneficial in D2. It was not as straight-forward though, meaning that the balance between playing the game versus trading wasn't so far off as in D3. Which isn't to say that it was necessarily a good balance in D2 either.
It mainly ment that you spend endless hours in trade forums or spamming the battlenet chat. That is not what I call playing the game. I'd rather have a easily browsable AH where finding a item I need takes 2 minutes, thank you.
I haven't said trading wasn't beneficial in D2. It was not as straight-forward though, meaning that the balance between playing the game versus trading wasn't so far off as in D3. Which isn't to say that it was necessarily a good balance in D2 either.
But that's exactly why people are voting against complete removal. We KNOW that the D2 method sucked, was a massive timesink, and actually prevented you from playing the game more than the D3 model does.
I agree that running between 2 vendors to buy gear is pretty fuckin lame gameplay. So let's move from that point.
In D3 if you choose to use the AH you spend maybe 30 minutes searching for that perfectly-priced item. You click a button, and you're done.
In D2 if you wanted to make a trade you had to search the forums (official forums as well as 3rd party forums), and troll trade chat as well as search game names. Then you had to negotiate a trade with the person, if the item was even still available. This process could easily take an hour or more and you surely weren't getting a "perfectly-priced" item. At best you'd luck out that the seller didn't know the value, but there wasn't really a way to shop for "good deals" in D2. You could spend HOURS trying to get one single item depending on time of day.
When it comes to bartering, you're looking at a system that takes you out of the actual game even more than the AH does.
The Auction House allows us to focus on playing the game, if used properly. That's exactly why removing it is the most naive solution available. The barter system simply is too intrusive. We need a manner to exchange items (if we so choose) without having to spend significant amounts of time NOT playing the game. The point of the game is to play it.
Running between two vendors is just as absurd as having to troll the forums for items. Both are horrendously myopic and a waste of our time and an insult to our intelligence and both severely limit our ability to enjoy our time by slaughtering demons (which should be the ultimate goal).
But that's exactly why people are voting against complete removal. We KNOW that the D2 method sucked, was a massive timesink, and actually prevented you from playing the game more than the D3 model does.
To be honest, from what I am reading here I guess that most people never traded much in D2 or that it was too long ago and they forgot how much of a timesink it was.
I don't see removing an optional feature just because some don't have the self-control to not use it.
The main problem AH's caused was not caused by the AH itself. It was caused by people who used the AH to outfit their toons with the very best gear they could buy, then got mad because they didn't get any upgrades as drops for a while after that. They screwed themselves, and then couldn't understand why, so they blamed the AH, rather than the real culprit: themselves.
I wouldn't mind seeing the RMAH go, but I don't care if it stays. Again, if people get $$ in their eyes and whine about the time spent hunting for that perfect item to sell...that's their own self-control, not the game's fault.
Maybe it's because I'm older and have teenage kids, but, I just don't see several of the issues as design issues within the game. They're problems that people have because they lack self-control and/or didn't think things through before hitting the 'buy' button.
YMMV.
The AH is great if you have that one slot that you just haven't seen a drop for, don't get me wrong. But it's just the height of stupidity to outfit yourself with an entire gearset of the best stuff from the AH and then whine you can't get upgrades from drops.
1 You should not be able to resell an item for more than you bought it on either AH(stops price gouging and puts items in the hands of people that can uses them instead of item flippers)
2 You should not be able buy items off GAH and sell on RMAH, reverse is fine
I am on the fence about changing 1) to an item can only be sold on the AH once (or traded one account to another once) then it becomes bound to account. Then, they could increase the drop rates because items would drop out of circulation once sold or traded.
1 You should not be able to resell an item for more than you bought it on either AH(stops price gouging and puts items in the hands of people that can uses them instead of item flippers)
2 You should not be able buy items off GAH and sell on RMAH, reverse is fine
No. Just no.
The market handles AH pricing.
The AH has a few simple rules, and they work fine.
1) If it sells, it's not overpriced. If it's overpriced, it won't sell. 'Gouging' in the AH is not possible. It's a GAME; i.e. luxury. There are no monopolies or 'essential to life' items. You can pay the price...or not.
2) If you think something's too high, you're free to farm or craft your own item.
3) If you think something's too low, (i.e. you got undercut), you're perfectly welcome to buy it and reprice it. If you don't want to do that, see rule 4.
4) Don't whine about prices.
1 You should not be able to resell an item for more than you bought it on either AH(stops price gouging and puts items in the hands of people that can uses them instead of item flippers)
2 You should not be able buy items off GAH and sell on RMAH, reverse is fine
No. Just no.
The market handles AH pricing.
The AH has a few simple rules, and they work fine.
1) If it sells, it's not overpriced. If it's overpriced, it won't sell. 'Gouging' in the AH is not possible. It's a GAME; i.e. luxury. There are no monopolies or 'essential to life' items. You can pay the price...or not.
2) If you think something's too high, you're free to farm or craft your own item.
3) If you think something's too low, (i.e. you got undercut), you're perfectly welcome to buy it and reprice it. If you don't want to do that, see rule 4.
4) Don't whine about prices.
It does not handle pricing, people with tons cash, buy anything up that resmebles the items they have up for sale and puts them up for those prices. It keeps new players from wanting to join the game or old players from returning. Increase the drops because thats whats fun, do something to the AH.
1 You should not be able to resell an item for more than you bought it on either AH(stops price gouging and puts items in the hands of people that can uses them instead of item flippers)
2 You should not be able buy items off GAH and sell on RMAH, reverse is fine
No. Just no.
The market handles AH pricing.
The AH has a few simple rules, and they work fine.
1) If it sells, it's not overpriced. If it's overpriced, it won't sell. 'Gouging' in the AH is not possible. It's a GAME; i.e. luxury. There are no monopolies or 'essential to life' items. You can pay the price...or not.
2) If you think something's too high, you're free to farm or craft your own item.
3) If you think something's too low, (i.e. you got undercut), you're perfectly welcome to buy it and reprice it. If you don't want to do that, see rule 4.
4) Don't whine about prices.
It does not handle pricing, people with tons cash, buy anything up that resmebles the items they have up for sale and puts them up for those prices. It keeps new players from wanting to join the game or old players from returning. Increase the drops because thats whats fun, do something to the AH.
Those items must still be selling, or, they're getting them back and wasting a sale slot. Again, the AH self-corrects. If it's selling, it's not overpriced. Nothing more or less. If *you* don't want to make the gold to buy the stuff, then, that's your issue.
There's no need for an AH welfare system or price controls. The AH isn't necessary to play the game, either. My Inferno farmer is self-found in all slots, and I only bought about three items as I leveled, just because of bad drop luck. (And replaced all three with drops)
Again, the AH is *optional*. If you don't like the prices, don't use it. If people won't come to the game, or leave because there's no welfare AH prices, then, I don't miss them.
The main problem AH's caused was not caused by the AH itself. It was caused by people who used the AH to outfit their toons with the very best gear they could buy, then got mad because they didn't get any upgrades as drops for a while after that. They screwed themselves, and then couldn't understand why, so they blamed the AH, rather than the real culprit: themselves.
1 You should not be able to resell an item for more than you bought it on either AH(stops price gouging and puts items in the hands of people that can uses them instead of item flippers)
2 You should not be able buy items off GAH and sell on RMAH, reverse is fine
No. Just no.
The market handles AH pricing.
The AH has a few simple rules, and they work fine.
1) If it sells, it's not overpriced. If it's overpriced, it won't sell. 'Gouging' in the AH is not possible. It's a GAME; i.e. luxury. There are no monopolies or 'essential to life' items. You can pay the price...or not.
2) If you think something's too high, you're free to farm or craft your own item.
3) If you think something's too low, (i.e. you got undercut), you're perfectly welcome to buy it and reprice it. If you don't want to do that, see rule 4.
4) Don't whine about prices.
It does not handle pricing, people with tons cash, buy anything up that resmebles the items they have up for sale and puts them up for those prices. It keeps new players from wanting to join the game or old players from returning. Increase the drops because thats whats fun, do something to the AH.
Those items must still be selling, or, they're getting them back and wasting a sale slot. Again, the AH self-corrects. If it's selling, it's not overpriced. Nothing more or less. If *you* don't want to make the gold to buy the stuff, then, that's your issue.
There's no need for an AH welfare system or price controls. The AH isn't necessary to play the game, either. My Inferno farmer is self-found in all slots, and I only bought about three items as I leveled, just because of bad drop luck. (And replaced all three with drops)
Again, the AH is *optional*. If you don't like the prices, don't use it.
They realize there is a problem with the AH, they are going to do something and I think thats great. However, they cannot increase the drop rates of good items as much as they would like because items never leave circulation because of the AH. I am trying to find a way keep the AH AND make it so you can get good items from drops. If you get something really good but you can't use it the AH is nice, you can sell it and buy something you can use. The problem is resellers, If the only people who bought items off the AH were the ones who could actually use the titems everythinng would be fine. I will be so happy when when they fix it. Destroying the AH completely would fine to me.
The main problem AH's caused was not caused by the AH itself. It was caused by people who used the AH to outfit their toons with the very best gear they could buy, then got mad because they didn't get any upgrades as drops for a while after that. They screwed themselves, and then couldn't understand why, so they blamed the AH, rather than the real culprit: themselves.
Game design 101: It's NEVER the players fault.
I disagree completely. Sometimes it IS the players' fault. Spending too much time on World of Warcraft and losing your job is a self-control issue, not a game design issue. So is misuse of the AH in D3.
Someone losing their job is a real-life consequence of them doing something. Not in any imaginable way comparable to a players behavior within a game.
A game developer can design a game where players aren't incentivized to hurt their own gaming experience - since the game developer is in full control. They obviously can't do anything regarding your personal life.
A game developer can design a game where players aren't incentivized to hurt their own gaming experience - since the game developer is in full control. They obviously can't do anything regarding your personal life.
I still don't buy that argument. No one is forcing anyone to use the AH. No one and/or nothing. It's a *choice*.
Best Option. Get rid of of RMAH and drastically change GAH so they can increase drop rates. Sell or trade items one time only.
Option 2 and very close second get rid of them both.
The other problem with poll it is mostly active players (people who did not quit because of AH). Blizzard should send email to inactive players asking if the would return for a increase drop rate and a removed AH or a drastically diminshed one. All I know is the best thing about the game is finding cool loot you can use. The AH as it currently stands is EXACTLY what is preventing them from fixing the game and doing just that. They know and we all know it too, some of just have a vested interest in keeping things exactly the way they are.
The main problem AH's caused was not caused by the AH itself. It was caused by people who used the AH to outfit their toons with the very best gear they could buy, then got mad because they didn't get any upgrades as drops for a while after that. They screwed themselves, and then couldn't understand why, so they blamed the AH, rather than the real culprit: themselves.
I wouldn't mind seeing the RMAH go, but I don't care if it stays. Again, if people get $$ in their eyes and whine about the time spent hunting for that perfect item to sell...that's their own self-control, not the game's fault.
Maybe it's because I'm older and have teenage kids, but, I just don't see several of the issues as design issues within the game. They're problems that people have because they lack self-control and/or didn't think things through before hitting the 'buy' button.
Totaly true.
But I dont think that the kids who complain here are bright enugh to follow. May wanna start with explaining what self control is.
I am trying to find a way keep the AH AND make it so you can get good items from drops.
You do realise that ALL items that you see in the AH dropped for somebody at some point ? EVERYTHING in the AH was put there by somebody. Somebody playing the game.
Yes, we can talk about probabilities and how low they are. Does not change the fact that good items DO drop, you just have not been on the lucky side so far.
Just saying. Everybody here is acting as if a few selected players get items for free to put them in the AH. No they dont. They either farm or have some program farm for them, which is against the TOS and will get your account closed.
some of just have a vested interest in keeping things exactly the way they are.
To be clear, I don't have a vested interest in it. I don't flip stuff over on the AH, and indeed, I barely use it at all. However, I don't like a useful tool taken away just because some people don't have the self-control to use it (or not use it) properly.
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D3 is also enjoyable without trading. You can easily get a char trough inferno with only self-found items.
The only thing that the AH does in D3 is that you now know just how bad your gear is ( you can compare ) while in D2 you just had no idea and played with what you had.
And yes, trading was very beneficial in D2. I dont know how many complete IK or Tal Rasha sets you found in your D2 time, but the drop chances were certainly very low in D2 too. Trading could easily make the difference between a char just making it trough hell and a char who can farm MP8 with ease. Just as in D3.
As I said, the tuning of the game is more or less similar in D2 and D3. The only difference is comfort for the users. And you whine about a comfort function. I dont believe it...
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Remove them both, imo.
Why remove ? What is stopping you from just not using it ? Why cant others use it even if you dont want to ?
How does it not work? All I see is people complaining because the game is not exactly what THEY imagined, mostly cause they have weird ideas of what D2 used to be and project that on what they want from D3.
I like the actual system. There is no better one.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
You have a so-called comfort feature, that encourages you to not play the game. That is simply a bad feature to have, no matter how you look at it.
I'd compare it to Sacred 2 tbh, which had a skill that allowed you to get better gear from vendors - to exemplify how this isnt just a problem with trading.
The result was, that the best way to get gear in the game, was to increase said skill, and spend endless hours running between 2 vendors buying some of the best gear you could get.
Comfort? Maybe. But very harmful for the fun-factor of a game that supposedly was about killing monsters for their loot.
I haven't said trading wasn't beneficial in D2. It was not as straight-forward though, meaning that the balance between playing the game versus trading wasn't so far off as in D3. Which isn't to say that it was necessarily a good balance in D2 either.
How is it encouraging you not to play the game?
First off, you need some wealth to start buying anything in the AH. You get that by playing the game. I think most people still spend a lot of time farming.
Second, for some people ( I dont think it is many, but there were similar players in WoW and any other game with a ingame AH ) playing the AH is what they enjoy in the game. They may enjoy the economy aspect of it or whatever, I am not one of them.
And third, nobody is forcing you to even look at the AH if you dont want to. If you dont like it, you dont have to spend a cent or a copper coin.
It mainly ment that you spend endless hours in trade forums or spamming the battlenet chat. That is not what I call playing the game. I'd rather have a easily browsable AH where finding a item I need takes 2 minutes, thank you.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
But that's exactly why people are voting against complete removal. We KNOW that the D2 method sucked, was a massive timesink, and actually prevented you from playing the game more than the D3 model does.
I agree that running between 2 vendors to buy gear is pretty fuckin lame gameplay. So let's move from that point.
In D3 if you choose to use the AH you spend maybe 30 minutes searching for that perfectly-priced item. You click a button, and you're done.
In D2 if you wanted to make a trade you had to search the forums (official forums as well as 3rd party forums), and troll trade chat as well as search game names. Then you had to negotiate a trade with the person, if the item was even still available. This process could easily take an hour or more and you surely weren't getting a "perfectly-priced" item. At best you'd luck out that the seller didn't know the value, but there wasn't really a way to shop for "good deals" in D2. You could spend HOURS trying to get one single item depending on time of day.
When it comes to bartering, you're looking at a system that takes you out of the actual game even more than the AH does.
The Auction House allows us to focus on playing the game, if used properly. That's exactly why removing it is the most naive solution available. The barter system simply is too intrusive. We need a manner to exchange items (if we so choose) without having to spend significant amounts of time NOT playing the game. The point of the game is to play it.
Running between two vendors is just as absurd as having to troll the forums for items. Both are horrendously myopic and a waste of our time and an insult to our intelligence and both severely limit our ability to enjoy our time by slaughtering demons (which should be the ultimate goal).
To be honest, from what I am reading here I guess that most people never traded much in D2 or that it was too long ago and they forgot how much of a timesink it was.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
The main problem AH's caused was not caused by the AH itself. It was caused by people who used the AH to outfit their toons with the very best gear they could buy, then got mad because they didn't get any upgrades as drops for a while after that. They screwed themselves, and then couldn't understand why, so they blamed the AH, rather than the real culprit: themselves.
I wouldn't mind seeing the RMAH go, but I don't care if it stays. Again, if people get $$ in their eyes and whine about the time spent hunting for that perfect item to sell...that's their own self-control, not the game's fault.
Maybe it's because I'm older and have teenage kids, but, I just don't see several of the issues as design issues within the game. They're problems that people have because they lack self-control and/or didn't think things through before hitting the 'buy' button.
YMMV.
The AH is great if you have that one slot that you just haven't seen a drop for, don't get me wrong. But it's just the height of stupidity to outfit yourself with an entire gearset of the best stuff from the AH and then whine you can't get upgrades from drops.
2 You should not be able buy items off GAH and sell on RMAH, reverse is fine
I am on the fence about changing 1) to an item can only be sold on the AH once (or traded one account to another once) then it becomes bound to account. Then, they could increase the drop rates because items would drop out of circulation once sold or traded.
No. Just no.
The market handles AH pricing.
The AH has a few simple rules, and they work fine.
1) If it sells, it's not overpriced. If it's overpriced, it won't sell. 'Gouging' in the AH is not possible. It's a GAME; i.e. luxury. There are no monopolies or 'essential to life' items. You can pay the price...or not.
2) If you think something's too high, you're free to farm or craft your own item.
3) If you think something's too low, (i.e. you got undercut), you're perfectly welcome to buy it and reprice it. If you don't want to do that, see rule 4.
4) Don't whine about prices.
It does not handle pricing, people with tons cash, buy anything up that resmebles the items they have up for sale and puts them up for those prices. It keeps new players from wanting to join the game or old players from returning. Increase the drops because thats whats fun, do something to the AH.
Those items must still be selling, or, they're getting them back and wasting a sale slot. Again, the AH self-corrects. If it's selling, it's not overpriced. Nothing more or less. If *you* don't want to make the gold to buy the stuff, then, that's your issue.
There's no need for an AH welfare system or price controls. The AH isn't necessary to play the game, either. My Inferno farmer is self-found in all slots, and I only bought about three items as I leveled, just because of bad drop luck. (And replaced all three with drops)
Again, the AH is *optional*. If you don't like the prices, don't use it. If people won't come to the game, or leave because there's no welfare AH prices, then, I don't miss them.
They realize there is a problem with the AH, they are going to do something and I think thats great. However, they cannot increase the drop rates of good items as much as they would like because items never leave circulation because of the AH. I am trying to find a way keep the AH AND make it so you can get good items from drops. If you get something really good but you can't use it the AH is nice, you can sell it and buy something you can use. The problem is resellers, If the only people who bought items off the AH were the ones who could actually use the titems everythinng would be fine. I will be so happy when when they fix it. Destroying the AH completely would fine to me.
I disagree completely. Sometimes it IS the players' fault. Spending too much time on World of Warcraft and losing your job is a self-control issue, not a game design issue. So is misuse of the AH in D3.
Someone losing their job is a real-life consequence of them doing something. Not in any imaginable way comparable to a players behavior within a game.
A game developer can design a game where players aren't incentivized to hurt their own gaming experience - since the game developer is in full control. They obviously can't do anything regarding your personal life.
I still don't buy that argument. No one is forcing anyone to use the AH. No one and/or nothing. It's a *choice*.
Option 2 and very close second get rid of them both.
The other problem with poll it is mostly active players (people who did not quit because of AH). Blizzard should send email to inactive players asking if the would return for a increase drop rate and a removed AH or a drastically diminshed one. All I know is the best thing about the game is finding cool loot you can use. The AH as it currently stands is EXACTLY what is preventing them from fixing the game and doing just that. They know and we all know it too, some of just have a vested interest in keeping things exactly the way they are.
Totaly true.
But I dont think that the kids who complain here are bright enugh to follow. May wanna start with explaining what self control is.
You do realise that ALL items that you see in the AH dropped for somebody at some point ? EVERYTHING in the AH was put there by somebody. Somebody playing the game.
Yes, we can talk about probabilities and how low they are. Does not change the fact that good items DO drop, you just have not been on the lucky side so far.
Just saying. Everybody here is acting as if a few selected players get items for free to put them in the AH. No they dont. They either farm or have some program farm for them, which is against the TOS and will get your account closed.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
To be clear, I don't have a vested interest in it. I don't flip stuff over on the AH, and indeed, I barely use it at all. However, I don't like a useful tool taken away just because some people don't have the self-control to use it (or not use it) properly.