Crit dmg Crit chance Crit dmg...

  • #61
    Quote from inkcheese

    TBH I don't believe that Critical Hit Damage should even exist outside of skills.


    I don't think there's anyone that does damage without using skills.
  • #62
    Sigh... it's a balance...

    2000 in main stat = x20 on your damage output
    +30% attack speed = x1.3 on your damage output (WDs without infinite mana are exempt)
    50% crit chance = x1.5 on your damage output (extra damage/effects might occur depending on crit effect triggers on passives and skills)
    100% crit damage = x1.05 on your damage output (with default 5% crit chance)

    Is getting 2000 in a main stat easy and cheap? YES!
    Is getting +30% in attack speed easy and cheap? YES!
    Is getting 50% in crit hit chance easy and cheap? YES!
    Is getting 100% in crit damage stat easy and cheap? YES!

    Is getting 2000 main, +30% attack speed, 50% crit chance and 300% crit damage at the same time easy and cheap? HELL NO!

    Is getting from 2000 main stat to 3000 main stat easier then getting 2000 main stat, +30% crit chance and 165% crit damage? Nope.

    If you have the stats 100 main stat, 50% crit chance, 500% crit damage, and find a super duper hidden legendary ring that gives you another 10% crit chance, and 100% crit damage will still suck more then a blue vendor ring that gives you +200 main stat...

    It's a balance...

    Lazy mans chart:

    Edit: Had to fiddle a bit with the new google drive :P

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7J31rVEFl2ZMzZsX20xNEcwT3c/edit?usp=sharing
    Winter is coming...
  • #63
    (Edited answer to edited post - where's the delete button?)
  • #64
    Quote from Mikegeni

    Quote from inkcheese

    TBH I don't believe that Critical Hit Damage should even exist outside of skills.


    I don't think there's anyone that does damage without using skills.



    What he means is, you should only gain an increase in the damage from crit, from skills, and not be able to get it from gear aswell
  • #65
    Quote from maka

    Just because Enigma was crap and was detrimental to the game in D2, doesn't mean we (they) should make the same mistake.


    It isn't the 'same' mistake though, the issue with enigma was that 1 item was broken, the issue with CHC and CHD or OWE and single element resists and a few others are the synergy between the two 'things' which is a lot harder to detect (and probably unreasonable to expect them to find everything, that's what balance patches are for) when the testing population was considerable smaller than the playerbase, and from blue posts I've seen used randomly generated gear to simulate self found play rather than custom gear to simulate AH sourced items.

    The further issue is that with the official auction houses there is a huge outcry when a nerf happens that affects something that people have spent real money on (or which they assign a value to) which fundamentally changes the equation when considering balance changes.

    Blizzard are obviously aware of the problem as they buffed rubies considerably to try and give alternatives to emeralds and is still talk of changes to OWE.
  • #66
    Enigma and the stuff like it was not broken - the dupers, botters, hackers and overall poor security measures and lack of determination to battle this folk led to the bad rap of the goldy runewords. How many people do you think made a legit one? Not a whole bunch i would say, couse if you managed to pull it off and make one LEGIT you damn right deserved it. Enigma was a goal you pursuit, almost something like lvl99 - it seems unfathomable, yet still reachable. Just a godly dream. I never made one but it could be one of those things that may always bring me back to diablo and it kinda humbles me. At least that's how i feel about the godly runewords.
  • #67
    Quote from Nausicaa

    Sigh... it's a balance...

    2000 in main stat = x20 on your damage output
    +30% attack speed = x1.3 on your damage output (WDs without infinite mana are exempt)
    50% crit chance = x1.5 on your damage output (extra damage/effects might occur depending on crit effect triggers on passives and skills)
    100% crit damage = x1.05 on your damage output (with default 5% crit chance)

    Is getting 2000 in a main stat easy and cheap? YES!
    Is getting +30% in attack speed easy and cheap? YES!
    Is getting 50% in crit hit chance easy and cheap? YES!
    Is getting 100% in crit damage stat easy and cheap? YES!

    Is getting 2000 main, +30% attack speed, 50% crit chance and 300% crit damage at the same time easy and cheap? HELL NO!

    Is getting from 2000 main stat to 3000 main stat easier then getting 2000 main stat, +30% crit chance and 165% crit damage? Nope.

    If you have the stats 100 main stat, 50% crit chance, 500% crit damage, and find a super duper hidden legendary ring that gives you another 10% crit chance, and 100% crit damage will still suck more then a blue vendor ring that gives you +200 main stat...

    It's a balance...

    Lazy mans chart:

    Edit: Had to fiddle a bit with the new google drive :P

    https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing


    Those stats you listed are all cheap together... One weapon will have nearly 100% crit dmg!
    Cost is hardly the issue anyways.

    Whats expensive is getting high dps, but not being a glass canon. Any item with +Vitality or +AR on it doubles, triples, or more in price. Even if its not much.


    Quote from Maffia

    Quote from maka

    Just because Enigma was crap and was detrimental to the game in D2, doesn't mean we (they) should make the same mistake.


    It isn't the 'same' mistake though, the issue with enigma was that 1 item was broken, the issue with CHC and CHD or OWE and single element resists and a few others are the synergy between the two 'things' which is a lot harder to detect (and probably unreasonable to expect them to find everything, that's what balance patches are for) when the testing population was considerable smaller than the playerbase, and from blue posts I've seen used randomly generated gear to simulate self found play rather than custom gear to simulate AH sourced items.

    The further issue is that with the official auction houses there is a huge outcry when a nerf happens that affects something that people have spent real money on (or which they assign a value to) which fundamentally changes the equation when considering balance changes.

    Blizzard are obviously aware of the problem as they buffed rubies considerably to try and give alternatives to emeralds and is still talk of changes to OWE.


    What is OWE?
  • #68
    ^^One With Everything, the Monk passive.
  • #69
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Those stats you listed are all cheap together... One weapon will have nearly 100% crit dmg!
    Cost is hardly the issue anyways.

    Whats expensive is getting high dps, but not being a glass canon. Any item with +Vitality or +AR on it doubles, triples, or more in price. Even if its not much.


    I was ofc only using the values as examples. As even with 10k main stat you would probably die a LOT without vit and damage mitigation.

    P.S. My Skorn has +235% crit damage ^^
    Winter is coming...
  • #70
    What if we just lowered crit dmg on weapons and emeralds? Wouldn't that be a good compromise?
  • #71
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    What if we just lowered crit dmg on weapons and emeralds? Wouldn't that be a good compromise?


    I'd like that.
  • #72
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    What if we just lowered crit dmg on weapons and emeralds? Wouldn't that be a good compromise?


    That would simply be a nerf a la the IAS nerf, make everyone mad and not fix anything in the long term. Making the affixs more rare, grouping the trifecta (or just the crits) into one stat, removing em from certain items or all items all together and introducing em in another form are possibilities what would make a meaningful change. Also introducing some worthwhile affixes that are giving you a sense of decision and diversity.
  • #73
    I am just walking arround :d3d:
  • #74
    Quote from nadenitza

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    What if we just lowered crit dmg on weapons and emeralds? Wouldn't that be a good compromise?


    That would simply be a nerf a la the IAS nerf, make everyone mad and not fix anything in the long term. Making the affixs more rare, grouping the trifecta (or just the crits) into one stat, removing em from certain items or all items all together and introducing em in another form are possibilities what would make a meaningful change. Also introducing some worthwhile affixes that are giving you a sense of decision and diversity.


    Ahh yah, its hard to balance OP shit without nerfing it.... Even if you buffed some other attribute, idk wtf that would be, but it simply accomplishes nearly the same thing, the items become less valuable. Either way you look at it thats how it has to go down.

    IAS nerf worked...it nerfed IAS! What do you expect? Maybe it devalued the items slightly, but who cares? Too many people at the top with too much damn gold anyways.

    Making them more rare? That only serves to help the people with the items already, and would only further drive up the prices. Talk about solving nothing.... The issue is diversity, but not because everyone has the same wpns, but because everyone HAS to use the same weapons.

    Rolling them together solves nothing either. We are still stuck with having to get it, and any weapon without it is still shit.



    Introducing new affixes is what blizzard is suggesting.
    Its not a bad idea, but the new affixes would have to be just as OP to match, and thats unlikely on wpns. You might be able to make a few unique builds with them, and that will be about it.


    Lets say there are 30 possible affixes. 5 are good. An item rolls 5 affixes.
    Probability of perfect item.
    5/30 * 4/29 * 3/28 * 2/27 * 1/26 = 1 in 142,506

    Increase good affixes by 3
    8/33 * 7/32 * 6/31 * 5/29 * 4/28 = 1 in 3956

    Just by increasing the # of good affixes, then we are 35 times more likely to get a good item.
  • #75
    OWE = One with Everything
  • #76
    @morbid
    Geeeezzzz....Talk about crying for attention...

    Is this some what a cry for "AMG I GOT BAD LOOTS" topic?

    If you don't get good loots, blame the RNG, plus, have you even capped MF for farming?...don't change the attention where it looks like something else...

    You have no idea how many hours some of these D3 players farmed to finally get a piece of good loot...

    I am just assuming that you are one of those players that killed like 2k elite and whinge about how hard the game is and it is unfair for you cause you are a paying customer...rite? but i might be wrong..May be your link of toon profile can clear everything up for me, just to clear my curiosity of you actually giving constructive criticism about the stats, or you're having some bias opinion?
  • #77
    Quote from irzerg

    @morbid
    Geeeezzzz....Talk about crying for attention...

    Is this some what a cry for "AMG I GOT BAD LOOTS" topic?

    If you don't get good loots, blame the RNG, plus, have you even capped MF for farming?...don't change the attention where it looks like something else...

    You have no idea how many hours some of these D3 players farmed to finally get a piece of good loot...

    I am just assuming that you are one of those players that killed like 2k elite and whinge about how hard the game is and it is unfair for you cause you are a paying customer...rite? but i might be wrong..May be your link of toon profile can clear everything up for me, just to clear my curiosity of you actually giving constructive criticism about the stats, or you're having some bias opinion?


    Huh? Did you happen to read the last blue post that said EXACTLY what I did troll?
    Everyone wants xyz, and it limits itemization...

    haha...go troll somewhere else scrub, and stop reflecting.
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