Crit dmg Crit chance Crit dmg...

  • #21
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Because crit dmg increase exponentially at a much higher rate than other stats. Other stats just help it be more Op. Its a huge % modifier, and when you have insane crit dmg already it becomes more beneficial to use other stats, thus boosting the benefit of your current +crit dmg. Which would be EXTREMELY high for a DH with near BiS.

    Its just math...

    So cc+ccd is not always the best to get? Now im confused. :o You just told us cc+ccd > rest...
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #22
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Because crit dmg increase exponentially at a much higher rate than other stats. Other stats just help it be more Op. Its a huge % modifier, and when you have insane crit dmg already it becomes more beneficial to use other stats, thus boosting the benefit of your current +crit dmg. Which would be EXTREMELY high for a DH with near BiS.

    Its just math...

    So cc+ccd is not always the best to get? Now im confused. :o You just told us cc+ccd > rest...


    % modifiers are not the same as raw damage increase.

    Obviously a flat increase will surpass a % increase given sufficient %increase already in place.

    Simple simple math...


    PS:

    I think its quite funny you use DHs who stack the ever living shit out of Crit dmg as an example to why stacking crit dmg isn't OP.
  • #23
    Ok, here is a stupidly simple example. I can do a more complex one, but it shouldn't be necessary.


    100% avg dmg & 50% Crit


    Example 1
    Crits = 2 x avg dmg = 200 dmg

    +100% crit dmg
    Crits = 3 * 1 = 300 dmg
    Avg dmg = 0.5 * 300 + 0.5 * 100 = 200% avg dmg

    +25% avg dmg
    Crits = 1.25 * 2 = 2.5 dmg
    Avg dmg = 0.5 * 250 + 0.5 * 125 = 187.5% avg dmg

    +Crit% wins



    Example 2
    Crits = 5 x avg dmg = 500 dmg

    +100% crit dmg
    Crits = 6 * 1 = 600 dmg
    Avg dmg = 0.5 * 600 + 0.5 * 100 = 350% avg dmg

    +25% avg dmg
    Crits = 1.25 * 5 = 625 dmg
    Avg dmg = 0.5 * 625 + 0.5 * 125 = 375% avg dmg

    +Dmg wins


    Thus assuming you have already stacked the stat to the extreme it becomes more effective to use +dmg to use the already overwhelming amount of crit dmg you already have. But you have to stack the OP stat up to that point to make it happen.

    Nerfing % crit dmg only shifts the transition from other stats and crit dmg a little.
  • #24
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    PS:
    I think its quite funny you use DHs who stack the ever living shit out of Crit dmg as an example to why stacking crit dmg isn't OP.

    No they stack ALL kind of dmg modifiers...And yes on certain gear levels some of those modifiers bypass cc or ccd. Thats why i dont see any valid point within your op. All i see is some1 bitching about how op cc+ccd is...Oh and btw. i used my monk as an example and dhs just to proof my point. ;)

    This is my mediocre geared us monk: http://imgur.com/sQyZN3W

    So 1,5%cc + 40%ccd is just as good as 44 avg and 30dex on hes gear level(which isnt that great tbh) and like i already said this dont incl. the 4%vs elites at all.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #25
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Ok, here is a stupidly simple example. I can do a more complex one, but it shouldn't be necessary.


    100% avg dmg


    Example 1
    Crits = 2 x avg dmg = 200 dmg

    +100% crit dmg
    Crits = 3 * 1 = 300 dmg

    +25% avg dmg
    Crits = 1.25 * 2 = 2.5 dmg

    +Crit% wins

    Thats wrong because its not how avg dmg modifiers work in d3. :)
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #26
    What dmg modifier? The 25% added to average dmg isn't a modifier. Its just a hypothetical increase of 25% of your current dmg. Its a flat #.

    I also edited it a bit.

    Quote from Shinna1989

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    PS:
    I think its quite funny you use DHs who stack the ever living shit out of Crit dmg as an example to why stacking crit dmg isn't OP.

    No they stack ALL kind of dmg modifiers...And yes on certain gear levels some of those modifiers bypass cc or ccd. Thats why i dont see any valid point within your op. All i see is some1 bitching about how op cc+ccd is...Oh and btw. i used my monk as an example and dhs just to proof my point. ;)

    This is my mediocre geared us monk: http://imgur.com/sQyZN3W

    So 1,5%cc + 40%ccd is just as good as 44 avg and 30dex on hes gear level(which isnt that great tbh) and like i already said this dont incl. the 4%vs elites at all.


    I can't see the other rings, so idk what your talking about.
  • #27
    100% agree (( that is just a lame system
    they must nerf crit damage from items by 2x times and from gems - by 3x times
  • #28
    Crit dmg is somewhat of a barsterdized ezmode version of d2's crushing blow. CB was/is a very valuable stat for certain characters and kinda hard to get.

    I would expect some or both the crit mods to get nerfed, not that i am for such things, but i would expect it to happen. They already gimped attack speed and that didn't stop em, so one or both the crits may be next. I think they even hinted about it in some posts with something like "we keep an eye on it" - translated: "you are next!".
  • #29
    Quote from Aldoran

    100% agree (( that is just a lame system
    they must nerf crit damage from items by 2x times and from gems - by 3x times

    Damn straight... ty.


    Quote from nadenitza

    Crit dmg is somewhat of a barsterdized ezmode version of d2's crushing blow. CB was/is a very valuable stat for certain characters and kinda hard to get.

    I would expect some or both the crit mods to get nerfed, not that i am for such things, but i would expect it to happen. They already gimped attack speed and that didn't stop em, so one or both the crits may be next. I think they even hinted about it in some posts with something like "we keep an eye on it" - translated: "you are next!".

    Its bound to happen eventually, I just hiope its soon.
  • #30
    Well, they clearly stated, that the attackspeed wasn't nerfed, because it was too strong, but because it caused other issues, for example in animations. Also I am pretty sure I did read a blue post stating they have no plans to nerf crit chance or damage.

    I agree with critdmg being too strong on weapons and gems though, it makes both stats way too mandatory on a weapon to have.
  • #31
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    +100% crit dmg
    Crits = 6 * 1 = 600 dmg
    Avg dmg = 0.5 * 600 + 0.5 * 100 = 350% avg dmg

    +25% avg dmg
    Crits = 1.25 * 5 = 625 dmg
    Avg dmg = 0.5 * 625 + 0.5 * 125 = 375% avg dmg

    +Dmg wins


    Thus assuming you have already stacked the stat to the extreme it becomes more effective to use +dmg to use the already overwhelming amount of crit dmg you already have. But you have to stack the OP stat up to that point to make it happen.

    this assumes that 100% increased critical damage has the same stat allocation as 25% average damage, which it does not.

    assuming that we get the highest possible rolls, on say a ring, i could get 50% increased crit damage. The highest i can roll in average damage is 72 flat damage. (36 - 108)
    Do you realise how low damage my weapon would have to have, before the average damage roll becomes close to crit? even assuming a modest 30% crit chance, any weapon with more than 300 damage, would favor crit before average damage.

    i would need around 120-250 min/max damage to get the same value as 100crit, and that is only possible on weapons.
  • #32
    Quote from dinamar

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    +100% crit dmg
    Crits = 6 * 1 = 600 dmg
    Avg dmg = 0.5 * 600 + 0.5 * 100 = 350% avg dmg

    +25% avg dmg
    Crits = 1.25 * 5 = 625 dmg
    Avg dmg = 0.5 * 625 + 0.5 * 125 = 375% avg dmg

    +Dmg wins


    Thus assuming you have already stacked the stat to the extreme it becomes more effective to use +dmg to use the already overwhelming amount of crit dmg you already have. But you have to stack the OP stat up to that point to make it happen.

    this assumes that 100% increased critical damage has the same stat allocation as 25% average damage, which it does not.

    assuming that we get the highest possible rolls, on say a ring, i could get 50% increased crit damage. The highest i can roll in average damage is 72 flat damage. (36 - 108)
    Do you realise how low damage my weapon would have to have, before the average damage roll becomes close to crit? even assuming a modest 30% crit chance, any weapon with more than 300 damage, would favor crit before average damage.

    i would need around 120-250 min/max damage to get the same value as 100crit, and that is only possible on weapons.


    I pulled those numbers out of my ass because they were easy to work with. The point was the relationship. However, you are right.
    My manticore has about 1000 avg dmg just on itself, and its not even that good. A radiant star ruby is what 130 average dmg?
  • #33
    Quote from Turtel
    1 stat always will be the best


    What was the best stat in D2?

    Quote from Forock

    Sincerely,
    One of the best CM Wizard EU

    :facepalm:


    Also, what the hell is "CCD" ??
  • #34
    Quote from maka

    What was the best stat in D2?


    +'x' to all skills?
  • #35
    Quote from Maffia

    Quote from maka

    What was the best stat in D2?


    +'x' to all skills?

    Not at all, only sometimes. Plus, it wasn's as ubiquitous as CHD.
  • #36
    Quote from maka

    Also, what the hell is "CCD" ??


    CCD is the best coffee shop in India. It's like Starbucks, just better.


    Quote from maka

    Quote from Maffia

    Quote from maka

    What was the best stat in D2?


    +'x' to all skills?

    Not at all, only sometimes. Plus, it wasn's as ubiquitous as CHD.


    Actually, I don't recall too many builds/chars that didn't need +x to all skills. So, I would change that "not at all, only sometimes" to "most of the times". Also, there are builds in D3 that don't need CHD, or builds that even try to stay away from IAS, and so on. It's not all black and white...
  • #37
    +1 to teleport was also fairly ubiquitous :P
  • #38
    There is a reason why everyone complains about itemization.. this is one of them.
  • #39
    Quote from maka
    What was the best stat in D2?


    Enigma

    That was OP as hell as well though...
  • #40
    Just because Enigma was crap and was detrimental to the game in D2, doesn't mean we (they) should make the same mistake.

    @Bagstone: I wasn't talking about just CD, I was talking about the CC+CD combo. Also, +skills did a lot more than just add damage, like CD does. Skills got all sort of benefits from +skills.
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