Crit dmg Crit chance Crit dmg...

  • #1
    I am so sick of this stat combo... It is so overtuned that it is absolutely ridiculous. If an item CAN roll crit dmg and/or crit chance, then you automatically have to get it or your dps and progression will greatly suffer. They could probably nerf these affixes in half and it would likely still be OP. Thats just how OP it is!

    These two affixes completely determines ones gear selection into no selection at all. You have x item that goes here, and y item that goes there. You can't even look at a weapon unless it has at least one socket and crit dmg affix already on it. Such a weapon is not even worth wiping your ass with! This in turn makes CC/CD items in extreme demand, and thus the price is outrageous on such pieces.

    I am tired of these two affix being the god affixes of D3! I really hope some people step up and vote for this issue in the discussion with the devs.

    Anyone else feel the same way?
  • #2
    Technically CM wizards, as an example, only need IAS and CC. CD is a luxury. They don't need it.

    In fact, I always tell CM wizards to not look at CD and focus on maxing out IAS and CC and tack on CD only if they want to add some more harder hits.

    And regarding weapons, some people skip the CD on weapons altogether and go for high life steal and socket.

    It's really not always CD. CD is great if all you care about is sheet DPS. Some people are naive and think CD will get them more women, but in reality, smart gearing does.

    Okay, the last part is not entirely true.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #3
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    If an item CAN roll crit dmg, then you automatically have to get it or your dps and progression will greatly suffer.

    Nope thats not true.
    I really hope some people step up and vote for this issue in the discussion with the devs.

    CCD only works with a certain amount of cc as well. Its totaly pointless to nerf one stat without touching the other. Im not sure if you are just trolling in generel. This game got a future called "monsterpower level". GL playing higher monsterpower level without enough dps/damage output...
  • #4
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    If an item CAN roll crit dmg, then you automatically have to get it or your dps and progression will greatly suffer.

    Nope thats not true.
    I really hope some people step up and vote for this issue in the discussion with the devs.

    CCD only works with a certain amount of cc as well. Its totaly pointless to nerf one stat without touching the other. Im not sure if you are just trolling in generel. This game got a future called "monsterpower level". GL playing higher monsterpower level without enough dps/damage output...


    What are you in hell or something? Its funny you mention dps, because CD with CC is by FAR the best option to increase dps. If you want to do higher MPs then you either get crit dmg or you go the fuck home.


    Quote from Jaetch

    Technically CM wizards, as an example, only need IAS and CC. CD is a luxury. They don't need it.

    In fact, I always tell CM wizards to not look at CD and focus on maxing out IAS and CC and tack on CD only if they want to add some more harder hits.

    And regarding weapons, some people skip the CD on weapons altogether and go for high life steal and socket.

    It's really not always CD. CD is great if all you care about is sheet DPS. Some people are naive and think CD will get them more women, but in reality, smart gearing does.

    Okay, the last part is not entirely true.


    Sure that works great as long as you have no desire to do higher levels with any sort of speed and efficiency. You can put together any type of trash set and do fine at lower levels.
  • #5
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    What are you in hell or something? Its funny you mention dps, because CD with CC is by FAR the best option to increase dps. If you want to do higher MPs then you either get crit dmg or you go the fuck home.

    Nope im mostly farming mp7/8. You EVER heard off avg dmg? No? You might goggle it...CC and CCD are good but can be beaten by other affixes depending on class and/or gearset.


    Sure that works great as long as you have no desire to do higher levels with any sort of speed and efficiency. You can put together any type of trash set and do fine at lower levels.

    You sir have no clue how cm/ww works right? A cm with lets say 100k sheet-dps and no ccd on gear at all can still pull like +500k effecitve dps. ;) But im sure youll beat this with your character easily and rush thru mp10...
  • #6
    Farm 7/8 my ass, you probably crawl through 7/8.

    Its basic mathematics... CD is FAR superior affix to adding dps than anything else.


    I don't play a wizard, so idk maybe there is some gimmick that makes it less desired, but I seriously doubt its still not top of dps once certain criteria are met.

    EDIT:
    Here is a guide I just found for CM wiz
    Minimum What You Need

    Attack Speed: 2.30
    Critical Hit Chance: %50
    Critical Hit Damage: %300
    Vitality: 45,000
    All Resist: 400
    Life on Hit: 1000

    http://d3up.com/guid...cal-mass-wizard


    Cough you were saying, cough...
  • #7
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Its basic mathematics... CD is far superior affix to adding dps than anything else.


    As long as you have CHC as well. I know it's obvious, but you can't just state CHD is the best, when in fact it's close to useless without CHC and that's not the only stat that boosts CHD and synergize with each other.

    There's always going to be that 1 stat that trumphs all others, atleast in certain slots that can roll it, but i have to agree to some extend though. I think its a mistake to have 100% CHD AND a socket available on weapons. Those values should be much lower. I dislike this from the start, just got used to it by now.
  • #8
    Quote from Turtel

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Its basic mathematics... CD is far superior affix to adding dps than anything else.


    As long as you have CHC as well. I know it's obvious, but you can't just state CHD is the best, when in fact it's close to useless without CHC and that's not the only stat that boosts CHD.

    I have to agree to some extend though. I think its a mistake to have 100% CHD AND a socket available on weapons. Those values should be much lower.


    Except CC is 2nd best, maybe even 1st as it is used in a lot of proc based systems as well. High crit chance is almost a given for any character.

    If you aren't using crit then you are likely just gimping yourself to be a special snowflake.
  • #9
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Except CC is 2nd best, maybe even 1st as it is used in a lot of proc based systems as well. High crit chance is almost a given for any character. If not then you are likely just gimping yourself to be a special snowflake.


    Exactly! Weren't YOU the one saying how CHD is so much better than anything else? :D
  • #10
    Quote from Turtel

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Except CC is 2nd best, maybe even 1st as it is used in a lot of proc based systems as well. High crit chance is almost a given for any character. If not then you are likely just gimping yourself to be a special snowflake.


    Exactly! Weren't YOU the one saying how CHD is so much better than anything else? :D


    Well considering Crit chance is a given, then yes it is.

    If you prefer, then I can reword it.
    The entire crit system is OP as hell.


    EDIT: I reworded OP and title.
  • #11
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Quote from Turtel

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Except CC is 2nd best, maybe even 1st as it is used in a lot of proc based systems as well. High crit chance is almost a given for any character. If not then you are likely just gimping yourself to be a special snowflake.


    Exactly! Weren't YOU the one saying how CHD is so much better than anything else? :D


    Well considering Crit chance is a given, then yes it is.

    If you prefer, then I can reword it.
    The entire crit system is OP as hell.


    See that's what i was pointing out earlier. You are looking at crit dmg on a character which already has high crit chance and most likely a good amount of primary stat, some AS and high weapon dmg..

    All these stat synergize and make the CHD powerful together. Crit chance means you get to use your crit dmg more often, AS does the same, just by a lower amount. Weapon dmg/avg dmg and primary stat boost the base dmg, so CHD becomes more powerful if it multiplies a higher base.

    CHD on low level characters is likely the worst stat you can get. There's not enough to support it.

    I get your point, i really do, but understand that the power of CHD comes from the support of all other stats and 1 stat always will be the best - just like AS was, when the values were double.


    There could be some balancing yes, but it won't happen.


    edit: Okay well now with the edited post you are aiming at 2 out of 5 (regular) dps stats. I'd slightly changed what i wrote before, not bothering.
  • #12
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Farm 7/8 my ass, you probably crawl through 7/8.

    Its basic mathematics... CD is FAR superior affix to adding dps than anything else.


    I don't play a wizard, so idk maybe there is some gimmick that makes it less desired, but I seriously doubt its still not top of dps once certain criteria are met.

    EDIT:
    Here is a guide I just found for CM wiz
    Minimum What You Need

    Attack Speed: 2.30
    Critical Hit Chance: %50
    Critical Hit Damage: %300
    Vitality: 45,000
    All Resist: 400
    Life on Hit: 1000

    http://d3up.com/guid...cal-mass-wizard


    Cough you were saying, cough...


    Cute. And here's a *REAL* guide to CMWW (in fact, the only one you ever need to read):

    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/79800-guide-comprehensive-cmww-guide/
  • #13
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Farm 7/8 my ass, you probably crawl through 7/8.

    Its basic mathematics... CD is FAR superior affix to adding dps than anything else.


    I don't play a wizard, so idk maybe there is some gimmick that makes it less desired, but I seriously doubt its still not top of dps once certain criteria are met.

    EDIT:
    Here is a guide I just found for CM wiz
    Minimum What You Need

    Attack Speed: 2.30
    Critical Hit Chance: %50
    Critical Hit Damage: %300
    Vitality: 45,000
    All Resist: 400
    Life on Hit: 1000

    http://d3up.com/guid...cal-mass-wizard


    Cough you were saying, cough...


    Whoever wrote that guide needs to quit and uninstall the game.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #14
    Quote from Jaetch
    Whoever wrote that guide needs to quit and uninstall the game.


    Yes. The guy who wrote that guide does indeed need to uninstall the game. Then have his PC thrown out the window. Never mind it's probably a Mac.

    Seriously though, this is the bottom line:

    You do not need any CHD as a CM Wizard.

    Sincerely,
    One of the best CM Wizard EU
  • #15
    Quote from Forock

    Quote from Jaetch
    Whoever wrote that guide needs to quit and uninstall the game.


    Yes. The guy who wrote that guide does indeed need to uninstall the game. Then have his PC thrown out the window. Never mind it's probably a Mac.

    Seriously though, this is the bottom line:

    You do not need any CHD as a CM Wizard.

    Sincerely,
    One of the best CM Wizard EU


    Ok fine, that spec is special then, and not a good standard for everyone.

    You don't need it to clear high level content. The spec is OP, which is why everyone and his dog uses some variation of it.

    However, assuming you could afford it crit dmg on your gear would make you godly.


    Quote from Turtel

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Quote from Turtel

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    Except CC is 2nd best, maybe even 1st as it is used in a lot of proc based systems as well. High crit chance is almost a given for any character. If not then you are likely just gimping yourself to be a special snowflake.


    Exactly! Weren't YOU the one saying how CHD is so much better than anything else? :D


    Well considering Crit chance is a given, then yes it is.

    If you prefer, then I can reword it.
    The entire crit system is OP as hell.


    See that's what i was pointing out earlier. You are looking at crit dmg on a character which already has high crit chance and most likely a good amount of primary stat, some AS and high weapon dmg..

    All these stat synergize and make the CHD powerful together. Crit chance means you get to use your crit dmg more often, AS does the same, just by a lower amount. Weapon dmg/avg dmg and primary stat boost the base dmg, so CHD becomes more powerful if it multiplies a higher base.

    CHD on low level characters is likely the worst stat you can get. There's not enough to support it.

    I get your point, i really do, but understand that the power of CHD comes from the support of all other stats and 1 stat always will be the best - just like AS was, when the values were double.


    There could be some balancing yes, but it won't happen.


    edit: Okay well now with the edited post you are aiming at 2 out of 5 (regular) dps stats. I'd slightly changed what i wrote before, not bothering.


    None of that changes the fact that at 60 geared its by far the most dominant stat far surpassing any other in dps contribution.

    It needs to be nerfed!
    Blizz can either lower Crit dmg affixes. lower crit chance (though this makes +crit% skills stronger) or nerf both.
  • #16
    Given the multiplicative nature of all the damage stats, all of them are important. Base damage, avg damage, main stat, crit chance, crit damage and attackspeed, you need them all. If all you care about is sheet dps, you have to maximize all of these stats. While it is true, that some of the stats might have a smaller impact on your dps, the difference is not that high. You can stack as much chd as you want, if you have no chc, your damage will suck. Same, if you don't have any base damage to begin with, or if you lack main stat.

    There are indeed special cases, like the mentioned cm/ww or specs that cannot crit, like sentry dh or hydra wizard, however those are unusual, because the inability to proc crits makes them rather weak compared to standard builds. Also, certain low-mp oneshot builds favor reliable damage over crit (tempest rush monk).

    I agree, that crit chance + damage is a very important tool to increase your dps and critdmg is a crucial stat for many builds, but it is not mandatory to get as much of it as you can on any item, especially not at the expense of other stats.
  • #17
    Once again: CC and CCD are not the best stats in any case. Sometimes avg. dmg beats both. Sometimes ias is better then ccd. The stat values are given by class/spec/gear and are not set in stone.

    F.e. im using a pretty standard untiy on my monk...+160dex, 4,5%ccd high avg. dmg. I would need a ring with +130dex, 6%cc and 40%ccd just to get the same sheet-dps. And the 4% vs. elites is not incl. here. So i need even slightly better stats to be on pair with the unity...According to you this is not possible bcuz cc+ccd beats anything else which is in reality not true.

    Edit: Just to proof my point: http://www.diabloprogress.com/rating.stat_dps_unbuffed/class.demon_hunter

    If CCD would be so good wtf all top ranked demonhunters using an emerald+ruby for 2 socket manticore? 2 110% ccd emerals should beat this right?
  • #18
    Quote from morbidlymystic

    None of that changes the fact that at 60 geared its by far the most dominant stat far surpassing any other in dps contribution.

    It needs to be nerfed!
    Blizz can either lower Crit dmg affixes. lower crit chance (though this makes +crit% skills stronger) or nerf both.


    Your problem is that you are fixated on pure DPS. Making the build work and surviving is far more important than DPS. Once you reached the point where your only focus is dps and you already have some nice values of other stats, yes CHD will be the biggest contributor in most cases, but that's fine, cause something is always best.
    And like you see, there are exceptions. For example in my current setup AS and CHD are tied on a ring and CHC is equal or better. I have a choice here.


    Maybe it should be nerfed (in my opinion only on weapons and for different reasons), but it won't. It's too late or too early for that.
  • #19
    Quote from Turtel

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    None of that changes the fact that at 60 geared its by far the most dominant stat far surpassing any other in dps contribution.

    It needs to be nerfed!
    Blizz can either lower Crit dmg affixes. lower crit chance (though this makes +crit% skills stronger) or nerf both.


    Your problem is that you are fixated on pure DPS. Making the build work and surviving is far more important than DPS. Once you reached the point where your only focus is dps and you already have some nice values of other stats, yes CHD will be the biggest contributor in most cases, but that's fine, cause something is always best.
    And like you see, there are exceptions. For example in my current setup AS and CHD are tied on a ring and CHC is actually better. I have a choice here.


    Maybe it should be nerfed (in my opinion only on weapons and for different reasons), but it won't. It's too late or too early for that.


    The many things that made people think about survivability are long gone now. Even with the latest patch they nerfed reflect dmg. I don't think there is anything else left in the game besides "pumpn dat dps!" The only only survivability you need is a 1k+ dps weapon, until that whatever was before it is now either meaningless or a bonus until you figure out how to more dps. :)

    I disagree with you because if one stat can roflstomp the game then why bother with survivability? You don't have immune monsters as you did back in d2 to make you think how to deal with em, you don't have resist penalties, curses are like mosquito bites compared to d2's...

    HC is a bit different but in retrospect boils down to the same thing in the end.
  • #20
    Quote from Turtel

    Quote from morbidlymystic

    None of that changes the fact that at 60 geared its by far the most dominant stat far surpassing any other in dps contribution.

    It needs to be nerfed!
    Blizz can either lower Crit dmg affixes. lower crit chance (though this makes +crit% skills stronger) or nerf both.


    Your problem is that you are fixated on pure DPS. Making the build work and surviving is far more important than DPS. Once you reached the point where your only focus is dps and you already have some nice values of other stats, yes CHD will be the biggest contributor in most cases, but that's fine, cause something is always best.
    And like you see, there are exceptions. For example in my current setup AS and CHD are tied on a ring and CHC is equal or better. I have a choice here.


    Maybe it should be nerfed (in my opinion only on weapons and for different reasons), but it won't. It's too late or too early for that.


    Your game philosophy mumbo jumbo is just nonsense. This game is about enough defense to stay alive, which is easy, and then pure dps.

    Its not the best by a small margin... thats the problem.


    Quote from Shinna1989

    Once again: CC and CCD are not the best stats in any case. Sometimes avg. dmg beats both. Sometimes ias is better then ccd. The stat values are given by class/spec/gear and are not set in stone.

    F.e. im using a pretty standard untiy on my monk...+160dex, 4,5%ccd high avg. dmg. I would need a ring with +130dex, 6%cc and 40%ccd just to get the same sheet-dps. And the 4% vs. elites is not incl. here. So i need even slightly better stats to be on pair with the unity...According to you this is not possible bcuz cc+ccd beats anything else which is in reality not true.

    Edit: Just to proof my point: http://www.diablopro...ss.demon_hunter

    If CCD would be so good wtf all top ranked demonhunters using an emerald+ruby for 2 socket manticore? 2 110% ccd emerals should beat this right?


    Because crit dmg increase exponentially at a much higher rate than other stats. Other stats just help it be more Op. Its a huge % modifier, and when you have insane crit dmg already it becomes more beneficial to use other stats, thus boosting the benefit of your current +crit dmg. Which would be EXTREMELY high for a DH with near BiS.

    Its just math...and it not on your side.
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