IF EVERYSINGLE PERSON ON THIS ENTIRE PLANET WE CALL EARTH PLAYED DIABLO III AND 75% OF THEM FOUND BETTER LOOT ON THE "LOOT SERVERS" IN 20 MILLION INDIVIDUAL RUNS EACH...
GUESS WHAT
IT'S STILL RANDOM
NOW REPEAT THAT 126,925,233 MORE TIMES
YES, STILL RANDOM
DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN GET 99,571,550,986 HEADS OUT OF 100,000,000,000 COIN FLIPS?
LET ME EXPLAIN
IT'S THE RESULT OF A "HEADS SERVER"PURE RANDOMNESS
You should stop trying to explain things you don't get. It's not working out for you.
Only problem with that whole claim is that computers don't do random unless they are connected to a true random source like hooking up each server to nuclear fuel rods and measure decay. Computers use pseudo-random and if correctly implemented it is hard to see a difference from true randomness but incorrectly implemented it can be influenced to much by external factors and become predicable and become nonrandom.
Without proof that blizzards prng implementation is sufficently random under normal usecases all discussion about this is purely conjecture.
Holy crap, not this again. This was discussed at length here, I'm not gonna copy/paste the stuff again here. Besides, you can't proof that a number is random.
IF EVERYSINGLE PERSON ON THIS ENTIRE PLANET WE CALL EARTH PLAYED DIABLO III AND 75% OF THEM FOUND BETTER LOOT ON THE "LOOT SERVERS" IN 20 MILLION INDIVIDUAL RUNS EACH...
GUESS WHAT
IT'S STILL RANDOM
NOW REPEAT THAT 126,925,233 MORE TIMES
YES, STILL RANDOM
DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN GET 99,571,550,986 HEADS OUT OF 100,000,000,000 COIN FLIPS?
LET ME EXPLAIN
IT'S THE RESULT OF A "HEADS SERVER"PURE RANDOMNESS
This ^
What the OP seems to be missing is the difference between average and random. You can always average numbers, but the drops don't work on an average. If they did one legendary would drop exactly every X hours. Instead it's random, meaning a player can find 14 legendaries in one day, and then none for 13 days. That would work out to an average of one legendary a day, but you'll never actually SEE drops that are consistent, because, well it's random.
I'd also like to point out that you people who yell 'loot server' along with 'my account is flagged for bad drops' are dirtbags.
IT'S THE RESULT OF A "HEADS SERVER"PURE RANDOMNESS
Only problem with that whole claim is that computers don't do random unless they are connected to a true random source like hooking up each server to nuclear fuel rods and measure decay. Computers use pseudo-random and if correctly implemented it is hard to see a difference from true randomness but incorrectly implemented it can be influenced to much by external factors and become predicable and become nonrandom.
Without proof that blizzards prng implementation is sufficently random under normal usecases all discussion about this is purely conjecture.
I feel the need to point out that nothing is random in the entire universe. With enough knowledge and information of whatever it is in question (even decay ) you can accurately predict anything.
I feel the need to point out that nothing is random in the entire universe. With enough knowledge and information of whatever it is in question (even decay ) you can accurately predict anything.
Quantum mechanics says otherwise. On top of that, Chaos Theory says that for almost all actual physical systems, if it you could acquire 'complete, perfect knowledge' of a system's state, any measured values with non-zero error bars will eventually cause your predictions to diverge from reality at a depressing rate.
But that's beside the point... for 99.99% of human history, our primary concerns have been how to get food, sex and a safe place to sleep, and it turns out that a brain that's eager to come up with causative models of reality really helps with those goals. We've been trying to find meaning for tens of thousands of years, but we've only been trying to understand randomness for maybe a few centuries... it's no surprise that our first instinct is to find causes behind the data we collect, and equally no surprise that a lot of people can't accept it when it turns out that in some cases there is none.
See also Statistical Significance, Confirmation Bias, The Dunning-Kruger Effect and 0.999 recurring is exactly equal to 1.
Also, Second Breakfast is a thing, and I'm having one right now.
Maybe we can take this down to a lower level? As much as I'd like to talk about quantum physics, I really don't think that the OP found a way to overcome the Heisenberg uncertainty principle just to post here that he can predict loot.
If so, I'd gladly dupe his tinfoil hat, put it on, and loot the hell out of his loot servers. But before doing that I'd encourage him to travel to Stockholm and collect his instant Nobel Prize.
As long as this is not the case... let's just agree on the fact that computers might not be really random, but they are random enough such that you can't predict loot. I'll just quote Vaneras here:
Sometimes you can be lucky and get many legendary drops within a short amount of time, and at other times it can take a long while before you get any. Such is the nature of RNG... It does seem like you are having a streak of bad luck though, which understandably can be annoying when farming for legendaries.
But of course, *\equip tinfoil hat* that's all lies, folks.
... let's just agree on the fact that computers might not be really random, but they are random enough such that you can't predict loot.
Well if you're going to be boring about it. /sulk
Actually, it doesn't need to be random, so long as it's fair (which is why the 'actual randomness' of the algorithm doesn't matter). As long as there's no statistically significant difference between the loot different characters get on different servers at different times of day (etc, etc), everything's hunky-dory.
I feel the need to point out that nothing is random in the entire universe. With enough knowledge and information of whatever it is in question (even decay ) you can accurately predict anything.
Quantum mechanics says otherwise. On top of that, Chaos Theory says that for almost all actual physical systems, if it you could acquire 'complete, perfect knowledge' of a system's state, any measured values with non-zero error bars will eventually cause your predictions to diverge from reality at a depressing rate.
But that's beside the point... for 99.99% of human history, our primary concerns have been how to get food, sex and a safe place to sleep, and it turns out that a brain that's eager to come up with causative models of reality really helps with those goals. We've been trying to find meaning for tens of thousands of years, but we've only been trying to understand randomness for maybe a few centuries... it's no surprise that our first instinct is to find causes behind the data we collect, and equally no surprise that a lot of people can't accept it when it turns out that in some cases there is none.
See also Statistical Significance, Confirmation Bias, The Dunning-Kruger Effect and 0.999 recurring is exactly equal to 1.
Also, Second Breakfast is a thing, and I'm having one right now.
I'm sorry, but while those theories, and physics as a whole are great starting points, I don't personally subscribe to any of them being the end-all-be-all answer. We are CONSTANTLY proving physic laws false. The speed of light? I've read many articles in the past year proving light goes at different speeds, and it's not a constant. That alone throws off a ridiculous amount of proofs in the physics world. Now while THOSE articles could also be wrong, it does help to prove that we know next to nothing about our planet, let alone the universe.
The only thing I have to personally go off of is logic, and math. Every single thing has a reason behind it, and nothing is truly random in the complete sense of the word, when given enough information you could accurately predict anything.
I'm sorry, but while those theories, and physics as a whole are great starting points, I don't personally subscribe to any of them being the end-all-be-all answer. We are CONSTANTLY proving physic laws false. The speed of light? I've read many articles in the past year proving light goes at different speeds, and it's not a constant. That alone throws off a ridiculous amount of proofs in the physics world. Now while THOSE articles could also be wrong, it does help to prove that we know next to nothing about our planet, let alone the universe.
It's a known fact that the speed of light is variable. That's nothing new, and is part of the most well-understand subset of physics we have. The speed of light in a vacuum is constant. Physical laws aren't constantly being proven false... hell, even Newtonian mechanics still holds (with modifications).
The only thing I have to personally go off of is logic, and math. Every single thing has a reason behind it, and nothing is truly random in the complete sense of the word, when given enough information you could accurately predict anything.
Well that's the root of the issue right there. You have "everything has a cause" as an axiom, others don't. If they reach different conclusions to you, then that's not a matter of who's being 'logical', it's a matter of whose axioms are more defensible. That's a discussion well outside the scope of this thread, which is about whether or not Blizzard intentionally futzed their loot-generation system to encourage incredibly uneven load distribution across their servers.
I'm sorry, but while those theories, and physics as a whole are great starting points, I don't personally subscribe to any of them being the end-all-be-all answer. We are CONSTANTLY proving physic laws false. The speed of light? I've read many articles in the past year proving light goes at different speeds, and it's not a constant. That alone throws off a ridiculous amount of proofs in the physics world. Now while THOSE articles could also be wrong, it does help to prove that we know next to nothing about our planet, let alone the universe.
It's a known fact that the speed of light is variable. That's nothing new, and is part of the most well-understand subset of physics we have. The speed of light in a vacuum is constant. Physical laws aren't constantly being proven false... hell, even Newtonian mechanics still holds (with modifications).
The only thing I have to personally go off of is logic, and math. Every single thing has a reason behind it, and nothing is truly random in the complete sense of the word, when given enough information you could accurately predict anything.
Well that's the root of the issue right there. You have "everything has a cause" as an axiom, others don't. If they reach different conclusions to you, then that's not a matter of who's being 'logical', it's a matter of whose axioms are more defensible. That's a discussion well outside the scope of this thread, which is about whether or not Blizzard intentionally futzed their loot-generation system to encourage incredibly uneven load distribution across their servers.
Well on the basis of just talking whether or not Blizzard has purposely made either loot servers and / or changes drop rates per person, than again I have to use logic; One of the biggest video game companies in the world wouldn't dare risk their reputation and their entire company on something as trivial as screwing with the drop rates on a person-to-person basis / servers. What could they possibly gain by doing so? There's no merit in the 'it makes players use the AH more' argument, because if people are screwed out of drops then there aren't going to be many drops to buy off the AH.
I always found your posts to be well thought out.- But really, you should be smarter than this.
No matter how ridiculous his claim may be, yours is bordering the exact same line.
It's called fighting fire with fire. I'm merely defending the side of no loot servers because having such things exist would just be absolute stupidity on Blizzard's part.
I always found your posts to be well thought out.- But really, you should be smarter than this.
No matter how ridiculous his claim may be, yours is bordering the exact same line.
It's called fighting fire with fire. I'm merely defending the side of no loot servers because having such things exist would just be absolute stupidity on Blizzard's part.
^ Been my point since day 1
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You should stop trying to explain things you don't get. It's not working out for you.
Holy crap, not this again. This was discussed at length here, I'm not gonna copy/paste the stuff again here. Besides, you can't proof that a number is random.
This ^
What the OP seems to be missing is the difference between average and random. You can always average numbers, but the drops don't work on an average. If they did one legendary would drop exactly every X hours. Instead it's random, meaning a player can find 14 legendaries in one day, and then none for 13 days. That would work out to an average of one legendary a day, but you'll never actually SEE drops that are consistent, because, well it's random.
I'd also like to point out that you people who yell 'loot server' along with 'my account is flagged for bad drops' are dirtbags.
I feel the need to point out that nothing is random in the entire universe. With enough knowledge and information of whatever it is in question (even decay ) you can accurately predict anything.
Quantum mechanics says otherwise. On top of that, Chaos Theory says that for almost all actual physical systems, if it you could acquire 'complete, perfect knowledge' of a system's state, any measured values with non-zero error bars will eventually cause your predictions to diverge from reality at a depressing rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_variable_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Theory
But that's beside the point... for 99.99% of human history, our primary concerns have been how to get food, sex and a safe place to sleep, and it turns out that a brain that's eager to come up with causative models of reality really helps with those goals. We've been trying to find meaning for tens of thousands of years, but we've only been trying to understand randomness for maybe a few centuries... it's no surprise that our first instinct is to find causes behind the data we collect, and equally no surprise that a lot of people can't accept it when it turns out that in some cases there is none.
See also Statistical Significance, Confirmation Bias, The Dunning-Kruger Effect and 0.999 recurring is exactly equal to 1.
Also, Second Breakfast is a thing, and I'm having one right now.
If so, I'd gladly dupe his tinfoil hat, put it on, and loot the hell out of his loot servers. But before doing that I'd encourage him to travel to Stockholm and collect his instant Nobel Prize.
As long as this is not the case... let's just agree on the fact that computers might not be really random, but they are random enough such that you can't predict loot. I'll just quote Vaneras here:
Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
But of course, *\equip tinfoil hat* that's all lies, folks.
Well if you're going to be boring about it. /sulk
Actually, it doesn't need to be random, so long as it's fair (which is why the 'actual randomness' of the algorithm doesn't matter). As long as there's no statistically significant difference between the loot different characters get on different servers at different times of day (etc, etc), everything's hunky-dory.
I'm sorry, but while those theories, and physics as a whole are great starting points, I don't personally subscribe to any of them being the end-all-be-all answer. We are CONSTANTLY proving physic laws false. The speed of light? I've read many articles in the past year proving light goes at different speeds, and it's not a constant. That alone throws off a ridiculous amount of proofs in the physics world. Now while THOSE articles could also be wrong, it does help to prove that we know next to nothing about our planet, let alone the universe.
The only thing I have to personally go off of is logic, and math. Every single thing has a reason behind it, and nothing is truly random in the complete sense of the word, when given enough information you could accurately predict anything.
It's a known fact that the speed of light is variable. That's nothing new, and is part of the most well-understand subset of physics we have. The speed of light in a vacuum is constant. Physical laws aren't constantly being proven false... hell, even Newtonian mechanics still holds (with modifications).
Well that's the root of the issue right there. You have "everything has a cause" as an axiom, others don't. If they reach different conclusions to you, then that's not a matter of who's being 'logical', it's a matter of whose axioms are more defensible. That's a discussion well outside the scope of this thread, which is about whether or not Blizzard intentionally futzed their loot-generation system to encourage incredibly uneven load distribution across their servers.
Well on the basis of just talking whether or not Blizzard has purposely made either loot servers and / or changes drop rates per person, than again I have to use logic; One of the biggest video game companies in the world wouldn't dare risk their reputation and their entire company on something as trivial as screwing with the drop rates on a person-to-person basis / servers. What could they possibly gain by doing so? There's no merit in the 'it makes players use the AH more' argument, because if people are screwed out of drops then there aren't going to be many drops to buy off the AH.
It defiantly goes in the tinfoilhat folder.
It's called fighting fire with fire. I'm merely defending the side of no loot servers because having such things exist would just be absolute stupidity on Blizzard's part.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
^ Been my point since day 1